101 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Scary.
 
You like leading the Inquisition, and being bound to another's will puts your position and the organization in jeopardy.
 
Mythal is not your patron god.
 
You think you can get the same information from Morrigan, especially if you plan on confining her later.

That was may qunari quis' reason for not drinking.

[d1ta]

My Dalish First felt reluctant when her 4 trusted friends catapulted her into a position of power as the Inquisitor. It irked her, but strive on anyways.

But after a while the position kinda sticks. Especially since her clan (and to an extent the city elves in wycome) can benefit from her being in office.

The way everything was presented in the Temple of Mythal, Solas' stories and what Abelas told her made her think how (painfully) right Solas was, that the Dalish dont know zip about what they are worshipping. Dirthamen's narcissism is probably the one that made her "NOPE" so hard and contemplating on what Solas had told her before: that empires rise and fall. One is no more innocent/guilty than the next. Time to move on, look forward to the future, not backwards.

Had the well have no repercussions, she would dunk her head in it and gain access to the wealth of knowledge. But since that is not the case, she thought it dangerous should anyone in the position of Inquisitor has her mind being 'tampered' or under some influence they have no control of.

That is the professional reason.

The personal reason is that, she got chickened out. And she knew then the ugly aspect of her selfishness, that push comes to shove, she would chose her LI (by giving a lot of weight on boyfriend's opinion. Who happens to be Andraterian) over greater sacrifice.

[Almostfaceman]

The only reason that's legitimate to me, from a non-metagame-perspective, is that nobody can tell the Inquisitor what will happen if they drink from the Well. If they get put out of commission, nobody's left who can close rifts and inspire the Inquisition. 

 

Other than that, a Dalish Inquisitor (again non-metagame) would be strongly tempted to try and learn more about their past - the Dalish practically worship their past. 

[Heathen Oxman]

Actually, the only reason my Dalish DID drink from the well was because Morrigan had a child, and he couldn't, in good conscience, allow a mother to take that kind of a risk.

 

Other than that, he wasn't thrilled to be sipping from Mythal's Toilet. 

[Madfox11]

Personally I am more curious about the fact that even if you do not drink from the Well, you end up glowing... What the hack happened there? Still, being controlled by some unknown being tends to be a serious downside for some lore that might be gained through other methods. Note that I am note sure Solas actually tells that the markings are connected to the elf gods, just that they are a symbol of slavery. He does do this before the Well of Sorrow, at least at my play through.

[sjsharp2011]

because elven glory!

 

....well back to the question... I think a Lavellan who is First to their clan would be more likely to drink from the Well since it would eventually fall to them to lead the clan and preserve what they could of the believed old practices, which is why my fem mage Lavellan did despite Solas...

yeah that's generally why my Lavellans have as well because they care about their peoples cyultuer and want to preserve it. And Solak my current quizzy wil probably do the asme thing when I get there.

[berelinde]

The part about accepting an unknown geas from an unknown entity would put me off. Some of my characters with both a strong conscience and a good imagination hesitated. They could imagine some pretty horrible demands the Well's owner might make. Oddly enough, those characters were more likely to drink, because if somebody was going to do it, better it should be someone with a conscience. There might be a way to minimize the damage.

[nightscrawl]

The part about accepting an unknown geas from an unknown entity would put me off. Some of my characters with both a strong conscience and a good imagination hesitated.

 
I find it somewhat silly that the Inquisitor -- with Arcane Knowledge perk! -- is the only one who can figure this out. I took the option once to hear what was said and plan to never take it again. Perhaps if I played a mage it might be different, but my guy is a warrior, and while he IS educated, and thoughtful in his decision making, I don't really think he would know this. It also seems improbable that neither Morrigan (with a unique skillset and experiences for a mage), Dorian, or Vivienne -- Solas doesn't count, because, well... why would he actually explain anything about this? -- can figure it out.

 

It reminds of a Star Trek episode where they have determined that the sun was the thing that was harming an alien parasite. So the doctor and chief scientist are trying all sorts of things: intense heat, radiation, etc... but noooo the captain is the one who has to say, "What other properties does the sun have? It gives off light! It's very bright! That's it!" And the other two are just, "OH dur..." (But to give a point in fairness, it sometimes is difficult to see what's right in front of your face if your mind is too focused elsewhere.)

[Iakus]

Sera said not to. Solas said not to. What more reason do I need? We know almost nothing about it.

And if those two agree on something elfy, you should definitely listen to them 

 

At any rate, having Solas around, at least, casts a lot of doubt on the nature of the gods and ancient elven religion, that maybe the Dalish got some things wrong.  Perhaps, enough to cast doubt on the wisdom of claiming the well's power?

 

In addition, if you have the arcane knowledge perk, there's a dialogue option that basically sets the ol' Spidey Sense tingling.

[CardButton]

If you romance Solas you do.I forgot. Does Sola's that the tattoos be for or after the well of sparrows if you romanced him?

Solas tells an LI Inquisitor about the Vallaslin (and has the option of removing them) after the Well of Sorrows.  Actually, it starts from that same buggy conversation he has with every Inquisitor where he discusses the Well of Sorrows after "What Pride Had Wrought" (or yells at you "I told you not to drink", when he clearly did not). 

[Iakus]

Solas tells an LI Inquisitor about the Vallaslin (and has the option of removing them) after the Well of Sorrows.  Actually, it starts from that same buggy conversation he has with every Inquisitor where he discusses the Well of Sorrows after "What Pride Had Wrought" (or yells at you "I told you not to drink", when he clearly did not). 

"I told you not to drink!"

"Actually, no, you didn't"

"Well, I was thinking it real hard!"

 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Most Dalish don't exactly like the idea of being enslaved. 

[Qun00]

Most Dalish don't exactly like the idea of being enslaved.

To humans.

As for the Well, some elves might react like "Serving Mythal? That's what I was meant to do!"

[ComedicSociopathy]

To humans.

As for the Well, some elves might react like "Serving Mythal? That's what I was meant to do!"

 

Why exactly does this service require that Mythal have a psychic leash that strips you of your free will? Can't I just do a bow, say an oath and leave it that? 

 

Anyways, it's not as if a Dalish Inquisitor even shares the knowledge they learn from the Well with other Dalish. From what we learn from Trespasser it seems they haven't even been in contact with their clan and it falls to Varric and Sera of all people to check in on them.  

[roadrunnerNM]

Cassandra asked him not to, and he's dotty about her. Then she becomes the Divine. D'oh. Poor Mahanon.

[Maara]

Haha honestly, the attitude of Abelas put me off in the end. Here you have an ancient Elvhen, not like Lavellan expected them to be, bing a bit of an arse. In a temple of Mythal with murals where you heard stories about your gods, making them something you did not want them to be. And then you have a crazy mad god not even wanting to drink from it himself, well, that can't be safe then, can it?

[CardButton]

I will admit part of my Dalish's reason was for drinking from the Well themselves (outside of the whole "it's my heritage and any history I can recover for myself or my people is worth the risk", thing) was spite.  I could not stand Morrigan during "What Pride Had Wrought" especially in regards to the Well decision.  Now I'm "paraphrasing" here but... 

 

Morrigan - "I have no idea what the Well is or what it actually does, but I am the best person to drink from it because I can exposition about older, yet still wrong, interpretations of the same Dalish legends that my Dalish mage already knew.  What?  You think you (a Dalish Mage) are as good an option to drink from the Well as me? I disagree, because I got to talk down to you like you were an idiot this entire mission!  Also, we've known each other for a grand total of one and a half story quests and the main reason I've been serving as your arcane adviser is because I've been ordered to by the Empress/Emperor of Orlais.  How is it possible that I have not gained your trust when I've done so very little to earn it?"   

 

Her argument essentially boiled down to "I want it, because I want it and I deserve to have it, because I say so". 

[Nimrodell]

I like to think that my clan taught me to accept new world and new reality. She is the person that measures her steps and thus, after hearing the warnings, she is not reckless to drink from the well. Times are changing, the world is changing, and my clan was striving to survive, not to cling blindly to teachings of old - 'cause life is precious, freedom of will is precious, and that's why she didn't drink from the well. Simple as that. My own beliefs influenced her decision - I like to see her as wise woman who is aware that everything changes and that what once was, should probably not return.

[robertthebard]

Because it wasn't "my" heritage. That was made clear by events and discussion within the Temple. None of my Clan's Elders had dumped their wisdom into the Well, none of them even knew about it. By the time I was done with that quest, I understood one thing, I didn't know crap about my history, despite what the Elders wanted us to believe. So unless the people that were using the Well on a regular basis back in the day were wandering nomads that painted themselves up as slaves for the entertainment of some "Gods", we had nothing in common.

[Vit246]

*EDITED*
I am sure there are reasons why a Dalish Lavellan may not partake of the Well but will allow a shemlen to partake of it.
But I am really annoyed by all these "It's not my heritage."
Yes. It. Is. You're simply choosing not to reclaim it, thats all. F**k Abelas and his bitterness.
Don't be such a self-deprecating (self-loathing) elf.
You revere magic. You worship the same gods. You wear the same consistent tattoos. You speak the same language thats been carefully preserved to modern day.
You are part of the descendants of the ancient ancestors who were responsible for the Well. And you're a descendant of Dalish ancestors who were all about recovering lost heritages that they were forcibly separated from and reduced to a pitiful shadow. If it anyone should claim it, it ought to be the elves who've been reclaiming stuff like the vallaslin and re-purposing it for the betterment of their people.
I feel like I'm the only elf who isn't such a defeatist who does things like disregarding the modern vallaslin so casually without considering that it doesn't f**king matter what it meant thousands of years ago because it hasn't been a slave marking for thousands of years.
I should have clarified this is not a personal attack. This is just a rant aimed at nobody.

[nightscrawl]

^ Uh... people can RP their elf however they want. Maybe they're like Sera and dislike the general attitude of living in the past. Not everyone from various cultures feels the same about such things. The position and circumstances of the Dalish existence is so dramatically different from the elves of old that I can see why someone would consider themselves to be separate from that.

 

Also, to my knowledge the current use of the vallaslin is based on ignorance of its original purpose. Re-purposing implies that the act was intentional, much like how certain derogatory slurs have been re-purposed by minority groups; it was intentionally done to remove the power of the words. But that isn't so with vallaslin.

[In Exile]

To humans.

As for the Well, some elves might react like "Serving Mythal? That's what I was meant to do!"

 

Why would being slaves to other elves be better? That's still kinda racist.

[In Exile]

I am sure there are reasons why a Dalish Lavellan may not partake of the Well but will allow a shemlen to partake of it.

But I am really annoyed by all these "It's not my heritage."

Yes. It. Is.

Stop being such a self-deprecating (self-loathing) elf.

You are part of the descendants of the ancient ancestors who were responsible for the Well. If it anyone should claim it, it ought to be the elves who've been reclaiming stuff like the vallaslin and re-purposing it for the betterment of their people.

 

No, it's not. The absurd fantasy that the Dalish invented about the ancient elves has absolutely no connection with what we find at the well besides the fact that some of the names are similar, and they aren't completely wrong about the general outline of the story. It's not my heritage. It's, as best as can be described, my history. That would be like me, IRL, claiming to be a Thracian, with old historical articles tied to Spartacus being an essential part of my heritage, because it's not inaccurate to say that, probably to some extent or other, a few thousand years ago I was descendant from them.

 

Marking yourself as the property of a good without understanding it and believing a racist myth about the loss of your people's immortality that's not completely dissimilar to the truth does not make that your culture. It was the culture of Abelas, Solas, and the few surviving ancient elves. Apart from, again, weirdly racist beliefs about how it belongs to "elves" because beings that are so different from other elves but looked similar built it. 

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

My Lavellan let Morrigan drink cus, while the possible knowledge was tempting, she couldn't afford to be bound to another's will. (Or whatever would actually happen, if she drank. She wasn't really sure Mythal whether was in a position to impose her will or not, but it was likely there was at least SOME kind of danger there.) She had people to protect, an Inquisition to lead. She couldn't afford to have her willpower compromised.

 

Also, she had no problem with Morrigan drinking, other than concern that Morrigan was taking on the potential danger of the well. But Morrigan had proven herself. She made an eluvian work. She knows ancient magic, as she claims. She knew as much elven mythology as my Lavellan did, and likely knew more of the ancient language. Plus my Lavellan trusted her, to a certain extent. Morrigan had been nothing, but helpful to her and their relationship was polite and mutually respectful.  And the idea that "witch of the wilds" Morrigan was in a better position than rogue!Lavellan to make use of the magical well's knowledge seemed correct. So when Morrigan makes her case for why she should drink from the well, my Lavellan expresses concern for Morrigan's wellbeing, but ultimately agrees with her reasoning. And its not like the culture/knowledge was lost. Morrigan is an ally who's been forthcoming so far. Didn't see why my Lavellan couldn't just ask her w/e she wants to know about the knowledge from the well later on.

 

I think if my Lavellan had been a mage, she'd have been more inclined to drink. As first, she'd have been taught she's supposed to be the custodian of her people's heritage, etc. As it is, mine was a pragmatic rogue who prioritized her duty (protecting and leading the ppl she's come to be responsible for) and could bring herself to defer to others' expertise.

[Dean_the_Young]

No, it's not. The absurd fantasy that the Dalish invented about the ancient elves has absolutely no connection with what we find at the well besides the fact that some of the names are similar, and they aren't completely wrong about the general outline of the story. It's not my heritage. It's, as best as can be described, my history. That would be like me, IRL, claiming to be a Thracian, with old historical articles tied to Spartacus being an essential part of my heritage, because it's not inaccurate to say that, probably to some extent or other, a few thousand years ago I was descendant from them.

 

Marking yourself as the property of a good without understanding it and believing a racist myth about the loss of your people's immortality that's not completely dissimilar to the truth does not make that your culture. It was the culture of Abelas, Solas, and the few surviving ancient elves. Apart from, again, weirdly racist beliefs about how it belongs to "elves" because beings that are so different from other elves but looked similar built it. 

 

There's also the relevant question that if geneology matters, how can you be sure that any given human (or even other race) isn't similarly descended? The elven race isn't 'all the descendants of the ancient elves'- it's really just 'the descendants of the ancient elves who never knocked up with a human.'

 

If geneology of the descendant is the basis for claiming the Well, then any given human with elven ancestry has just as strong a claim- which, considering we still don't know how humans came to being or if they were ever a truly separate race at all, could be every human. Certainly an Orlesian chevalier like Mishell (or whatever his name was) would count. Certainly we have no grounds to argue that Morrigan isn't as much a descendant as the elves, unless you really want to engage in racial purity arguments.

 

On the other hand, if culture is the calling card, then the Dalish don't have a unique claim since their culture is indisputably different, as opined by every actual ancient elf we've come across. Besides the ancient elves themselves, the person with the strongest claim to cultural alignment would be the one closest to, or even raised by, a practitioner of the old culture... say, a daughter of Flemeth. Morrigan may not abide by the Dalish rituals or religion, but she's got a more direct cultural link to the ancient elves than they do- she was taught and raised by Mythal herself (kinda).