63 réponses à ce sujet

[TheWardenBrothers1701]

So I've heard from a lot of people that their very upset with how Hawke was portrayed in the game. I've come to a realization that has helped me understand some of it. And it all sums up to this:

 

Hawke feels like a failure.

 

Yup, I think they do (my Hawke was a girl so I'll be using the she pronoun) in the years following DA2 Hawke made the choice to go on the run because the Chantry knew she killed Meredith and Orsino, but didn't know why. So Hawke watched as southern Thedas erupted into a civil war. She feels responsible, she couldn't stop Anders from blowing up the Chantry but feels like she should've picked up on the signs. 

 

A humorous Hawke would wonder if they weren't such a wise ass could things have actually been done to prevent all this? A diplomatic would wonder why after all the hand holding wasn't it enough? And an aggressive would get more angry, especially at them self. After all they did for Kirkwall, for the people, for Anders what went wrong? What did I do wrong?

 

These are the questions they'd ask themselves, and to make matters worse then Corypheus shows up. How is it possible? I killed him. I did. I made sure he was dead. And yet now he's put a hole in the sky and tearing the Veil apart. In Hawke's eyes she failed, she did something wrong and now the whole world is paying for it. It's eating away at her.

 

That is my understanding of some of what Hawke is feeling during the events of Inquisition. At least partly why they may not exactly be the Hawke as you remember them. The 3-4 years on the run have been very hard on them clearly, and the fear and anger have festered in that time. Maybe you agree, maybe not. I'd love to hear what you think.

[Abyss108]

That only works for certain Hawkes.

 

What about those that were pro-Anders or wanted the Mage-Templar war? Or even just those Hawkes that were only interested in looking after themselves and didn't care about it. Hawke has no reason to blame herself for what happened, she isn't responsible for other peoples actions - she had no control over mages or templars.

 

It doesn't explain why Hawke speaks about how terrible blood magic is, when she can be pro-blood magic in DA2, or even be a blood mage herself.

[nightscrawl]

That only works for certain Hawkes.

 

What about those that were pro-Anders or wanted the Mage-Templar war? Or even just those Hawkes that were only interested in looking after themselves and didn't care about it. Hawke has no reason to blame herself for what happened, she isn't responsible for other peoples actions - she had no control over mages or templars.

 

It doesn't explain why Hawke speaks about how terrible blood magic is, when she can be pro-blood magic in DA2, or even be a blood mage herself.

 

Yeah, this is the thing. OP's suggestion assumes that Hawke actually cares about any of that stuff, but that isn't necessarily the case for all Hawkes. There could be some Hawke that only wanted to live the high life in High Town and was irritated that people kept coming to them with their problems -- mo' money, mo' problems, ya know?

 

And... I've gotta say, even as a mage player that NEVER takes the blood magic spec, neither in DAO or DA2, even I was annoyed at the harping on about it -- OK, it was only like three lines, but still!

[Ashagar]

To me even before Inquisition Hawke's main thing was failure unless their success could make things worse, it was like Hawke had a superpower that was demonically bad bad luck. Their attitude in inquisition could be from the years of brooding over their many failures leading to a obsession to set at least one thing right in their life.

[correctamundo]

That only works for certain Hawkes.

 

What about those that were pro-Anders or wanted the Mage-Templar war? Or even just those Hawkes that were only interested in looking after themselves and didn't care about it. Hawke has no reason to blame herself for what happened, she isn't responsible for other peoples actions - she had no control over mages or templars.

 

It doesn't explain why Hawke speaks about how terrible blood magic is, when she can be pro-blood magic in DA2, or even be a blood mage herself.

 

Well that would work if you ignored what happened to Hawkes mother. But since a blood mage murdered her it is really hard to do. If Hawke doesn't feel like **** after that then Hawke is seriously emotionally disturbed.

[thats1evildude]

There's some cut dialogue that shows Hawke got fed up with blood magic after seeing Orsino turn into a monster.

And to be fair, there's a difference between the blood magic Merrill uses, which is just surface level this-only-harms-me stuff, and REAL blood magic, which involves dead bodies atop bloody altars and summoning horrors from the Fade.

[straykat]

It works for most cases..

 

 

But what's funny is Trailer Hawke wouldn't act like this. That looks like the freaking Che Guevara of mages. And they used this to promote it, of all things.

[AresKeith]

There's some cut dialogue that shows Hawke got fed up with blood magic after weeing Orsino turn into a monster.

And to be fair, there's a difference between the blood magic Merrill uses, which is just surface level this-only-harms-me stuff, and REAL blood magic, which involves dead bodies atop bloody altars and summoning horrors from the Fade.

 

Which the major of DA2's blood mages did every damn day lol

[Abyss108]

Well that would work if you ignored what happened to Hawkes mother. But since a blood mage murdered her it is really hard to do. If Hawke doesn't feel like **** after that then Hawke is seriously emotionally disturbed.

 

Or it works if you play a Hawke who can tell the difference between a tool and the person who uses it. 

[TheWardenBrothers1701]

People who use guns are known to change their opinions when it kills their mother. A gun is a tool but logic gets clouded in grief and loss, they went with the psychological impact of the situation and how it would impact the character. It was a horrifying situation, that should emotional scar the person witnessing it whether the player choses to follow psychology or not is the key factor.

 

[Abyss108]

People who use guns are known to change their opinions when it kills their mother. A gun is a tool but logic gets clouded in grief and loss, they went with the psychological impact of the situation and how it would impact the character. It was a horrifying situation, that should emotional scar the person witnessing it whether the player choses to follow psychology or not is the key factor.

 

I'm sure it would change the opinions of a lot of people, but not every one. There was nothing in DA2 that forced your Hawke to be the type of person who changed their mind based off that. They could continue supporting blood magic or become a blood mage themselves.

 

Plus, a gun can only be used to kill so its not even the same situation. Blood magic can be used to heal and help people as well. It's like hating all drugs, even those used for medical reasons, because you know someone who got killed by them.

[Dai Grepher]

Long before Inquisition even was announced, and after I saw how DA2 ended and how people reacted to the game, I knew this about Hawke. First, Hawke was never our character. She (my Hawke is female also) is BioWare's character. And even more twisted than that, she's essentially Varric's character too since he's the one telling us the events of the game and DLCs, and though I trust the game to be accurate in general, Varric is also free to take certain liberties with each story. Like if you beat Legacy after Leandra died, and her "spirit" talks to Hawke. We all know that didn't happen. So Hawke is to DA2 what Leliana is to Leliana's Song.

 

Second, based on all of Hawke's story as well as what other players complained about, I concluded that ultimately Hawke had little to no control over how things played out. She did fail in many ways. Failed to keep her sibling safe while escaping Lothering. Failed to get in to Kirkwall on her own without doing shady work. Failed to keep her other sibling with the family after the expedition. Failed to protect her mother. Failed to prevent the Qunari takeover (yes, she can kill the Arishok, but only because he agrees to a duel that results in the other Qunari just walking away). Failed to stop Anders. Failed to prevent the clash between mages and templars. Got played by Tallis. Failed to stop Corypheus. And all of her victories were pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. For the most part, Hawke is one who is defined by failure. She couldn't even remain as Viscountess for very long.

 

Third, lo and behold in Inquisition the Nightmare confirms Hawke's fear is that she didn't do anything that really mattered, and that she was a failure.

 

This is partly the reason why I chose to make my Hawke a female rogue. It is easier to sympathize with a female who fails than it is for a male who fails. Also, rogues are typically the weaker class.

[straykat]

 

This is partly the reason why I chose to make my Hawke a female rogue. It is easier to sympathize with a female who fails than it is for a male who fails. Also, rogues are typically the weaker class.

 

You don't happen to be the same guy on the Wiki who plays Rogue fem Hawke and thinks Mage Male Quizzy is the true canon, do you? It's a funny post over there, but he said the same thing.

 

I don't necessarily agree, but I do love Rogue Fem Hawke. Or Fem Hawke in general. I don't mind that they're somewhat failures though... they're still interesting.

[nightscrawl]

People who use guns are known to change their opinions when it kills their mother. A gun is a tool but logic gets clouded in grief and loss, they went with the psychological impact of the situation and how it would impact the character. It was a horrifying situation, that should emotional scar the person witnessing it whether the player choses to follow psychology or not is the key factor.

 
But not for everyone. It's not about about ignoring psychology, and even those in that profession will tell you that the mind is a tricky thing and each person is different. There are many things common among people, that is true, but there are no specific mental rules that apply to everyone, which is why there are so many theories and schools of psychology. Hell, even the much used "five stages of grief" model is under contention by some folks.

[Roninbarista]

I did wonder why Hawke found Blood Magic so appalling in DAI.  Mind you, Orsio, and the nutcase that murdered momma Hawke really does color his/her perspective.  I'm guessing the use of unwilling sacrifices without a care for the consequence is what offends Hawke the most. 

 

That and perhaps all the fighting and tragedy took its toll on Hawke. There's only so much anyone can take, and if Hawke had a breakdown, that's reasonable. 

[Qun00]

I've had a different realization about Hawke. If he is left in the Fade and Carver is a Grey Warden, that means the whole family is officially dead.

I did wonder why Hawke found Blood Magic so appalling in DAI. Mind you, Orsio, and the nutcase that murdered momma Hawke really does color his/her perspective. I'm guessing the use of unwilling sacrifices without a care for the consequence is what offends Hawke the most.

That and perhaps all the fighting and tragedy took its toll on Hawke. There's only so much anyone can take, and if Hawke had a breakdown, that's reasonable.

Because the use of unwilling sacrifices is just so rare among blood mages.

No, really. It must've taken something life changing for Hawke to have a problem with any of that.

[nightscrawl]

^ Well no... Carver is still alive, this is stated in the actual game. He will die eventually, but so will we all. The Calling means he won't die from old age, but he could still be killed in combat, just like anyone else.

 

Or wait... did you mean the Hawke line? If so, that would still apply if Hawke was gay as well, regardless of whether they get left in the Fade. I mean, sure they could still have sex with an opposite gender, but that would suck for them, and it's not a guarantee, you'd have to wait a while to find out, and so forth. And of course you're assuming that a straight Hawke (and their LI) would want to have children**, and that they are both capable of having them. Also, we don't actually know anything about Malcolm's side of the family. There could certainly be Hawke relatives out there we're not aware of, since he would have been taken from his family and placed in the Circle.

 

 

** There have been discussions on these forums about some sort of magical contraception that is used in the Circle to prevent unplanned or unwanted pregnancies between mages, but as far as I know that is just speculation and nothing has ever been confirmed.

[Qun00]

I meant the Hawke line, yeah. Leandra's side of the family is gonna be alright, plenty of Amells around.

[straykat]

I just can't bring myself to kill Hawke. They've already got shitty lives. I could have easily killed some Wardens though. Some of them are dicks and just run scottfree. lol. Maybe that's realistic, but I like both choice and consequence. Not just choice. I don't even want to keep the saves any more, just because Bioware gives few interesting outcomes to most of them.

[AnimalBoy]

I don't remember my Hawke saying anything regarding blood magic in DAI and to contrast a point someone made earlier as to Hawke not being our character, i completely disagree. Maybe it's just me but i felt more connected to Hawke then either of the other two.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I meant the Hawke line, yeah. Leandra's side of the family is gonna be alright, plenty of Amells around.

Malcolm Hawke may have relatives. We just never hear of them since because he was a mage he was taken from them when he showed he had magic. 

[Dai Grepher]

Or wait... did you mean the Hawke line? If so, that would still apply if Hawke was gay as well, regardless of whether they get left in the Fade. I mean, sure they could still have sex with an opposite gender, but that would suck for them, and it's not a guarantee, you'd have to wait a while to find out, and so forth.

Or an F!Hawke who marries Choir Boy.

[Aren]

Name:: Living disaster

Surname::Hawke

[RoseLawliet]

Or an F!Hawke who marries Choir Boy.

 

Choir Boy's prince of Starkhaven. He needs heirs.

 

(And "chaste" doesn't mean what everyone thinks it means. It doesn't mean "celibate forever", but rather "only having sex with the appropriate person at the appropriate times and for the single appropriate reason of having children".)

[Dai Grepher]

No, I think it means celibate. That's how the dictionary defines it. But I guess the chaste marriage doesn't really come up if you rival him and encourage him to become the Prince of Starkhaven. But if he's Choir Boy, well... Legacy with Carver has a banter that suggests Sebastian and F!Hawke haven't done it, and won't.