95 réponses à ce sujet

[congokong]

...will you still do it? Morrigan, Anders, Solas, and Blackwall all are very reluctant and it turns out for good reason. At the very least, if a character starts warning against a romance it's best to raise an eyebrow. They're likely hiding something.

[GoldenGail3]

...will you still do it? Morrigan, Anders, and Blackwall all are very reluctant and it turns out for good reason. At the very least, if a character starts warning against a romance it's best to raise an eyebrow. They're likely hiding something.

I don't care. I still romance them anyhow.

[Carmen_Willow]

Ah come on, the "I'm no good for you, baby," is a classic line designed to peak an LI's interest!  All's fair in love, even the truth.

[Ghost Gal]

I'll probably romance them anyway.

 

That said, knowing what happened with every LI who warned you not to pursue them so far (Morrigan, Anders, Blackwall, Solas), I'll brace myself for the big reveal.

 

That said, it'd be funny if BioWare caught onto this trend and made an LI who constantly warned you not to pursue them, then the big reveal was that there is no big reveal. No nefarious secrets, no plans to leave, no world-changing ambitions. They just have low self esteem. 

[congokong]

I'll probably romance them anyway.

 

That said, knowing what happened with every LI who warned you not to pursue them so far (Morrigan, Anders, Blackwall, Solas), I'll brace myself for the big reveal.

 

That said, it'd be funny if BioWare caught onto this trend and made an LI who constantly warned you not to pursue them, then the big reveal was that there is no big reveal. No nefarious secrets, no plan to leave, no world-changing ambitions. They just have low self esteem. 

*facepalm* I forgot to mention Solas in the OP. Edited now. Thanks.

 

And yes, if they're clever Bioware will actually throw us off because after three games I'm now expecting something dodgy. I'll also be surprised if there's no opportunity to wipe out a dalish clan or make a deal with a demon.

[Ghost Gal]

*facepalm* I forgot to mention Solas in the OP. Edited now. Thanks.

 

And yes, if they're clever Bioware will actually throw us off because after three games I'm now expecting something dodgy. I'll also be surprised if there's no opportunity to wipe out a dalish clan or make a deal with a demon.

 

Don't mention it. ^^

 

Yeah... I'd be pleasantly surprised in that case. I'm so tired of open season on the Dalish, and I'm rather annoyed by the gameplay/story segregation of the lore claiming that making a deal with a demon never works out for mortals, yet the player character can make a deal with a demon each game and it always works out swimmingly for them.

[thats1evildude]

Making deals with demons in DAO always ends with a child being turned into an abomination.

Making a deal with Torpor results in the Dream Stalker terrorizing Kirkwall, which the demon swore would never happen.

Making a deal with Imshael kills Michel.

So yeah, it might work out for the PC. But other people always get hurt.

[congokong]

Don't mention it. ^^

 

Yeah... I'd be pleasantly surprised in that case. I'm so tired of open season on the Dalish, and I'm rather annoyed by the gameplay/story segregation of the game claiming that making a deal with a demon never, ever, ever works out for mortals, yet the player character can make a deal with a demon each game and it always works out swimmingly for them.

I could hear the fangirls now. "But Michel de Chevin dies if you make a deal with Imshael, you monster!" lol  But nothing ever happens to the protagonist thanks to plot armor and the inconvenience of the developers actually implementing consequences for your actions. I guess all that "demons always turn on you" lecturing is just Chantry rhetoric.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Well, this thread is kind of creepy. 

[nightscrawl]

I don't recall Anders being too reluctant with the male Hawke, which is actually one of my peeves with that romance; with a fem Hawke he's supposedly worried that he'll "break your heart," but with male Hawke he goes on to discuss the whole thing with Karl -- the disparity there irks me.

 

At any rate, it depends on how they act about it... but I probably would. If it's apparent that the NPC is into you but is reluctant to pursue anything because of "reasons," I generally have the attitude of, "Let's see how it goes," "One day at a time," "Whatever thing [probably] isn't as bad as you think it is," and so forth. I don't think that I, or anyone else, would ever imagine that my boy/girlfriend would turn out to be an elven "god" bent on the destruction of the world, except for the fact of having been a player of Bioware's games. So, while it might be tempting to look at the array of past romances and wonder just why this person is warning you off, I don't think that should factor into your character's decision.

 

And it also depends on what the thing is, because deal breakers will differ from person to person. Obviously if the LI betrays you that's the ultimate thing, but even that varies. I'm sure there are Inquisitors that are still in love with Solas, and some that (were in love with him and) now hate him with the fire of a thousand suns. The same is true for the Blackwall romance, and the Alistair romance. So, YMMV, as they say.

 

I will also say that The Iron Bull's betrayal only partly counts because he was supposedly playing you all along, and it's difficult to know whether his feelings were ever genuine. I've seen some people who wish to head-canon that he went back to Par Vollen and got re-educated, but that's all that is at this point: head-canon.

 

Finally, I do want to point out that Dorian is also somewhat reluctant, he even says, in his flippant manner, "All right, but don't say I didn't warn you," when you start the romance using one of the alternate paths. But this is primarily because he has no experience with romance or relationships, and is afraid of how it will all turn out, despite being something he does want.

[nightscrawl]

Making deals with demons in DAO always ends with a child being turned into an abomination.

Making a deal with Torpor results in the Dream Stalker terrorizing Kirkwall, which the demon swore woukd never happen.

Making a deal with Imshael kills Michel.

So yeah, it might work out for the PC. But other people always get hurt.

 
That's still kinda cheap, though. Really, there should be some repercussions against the PC for certain choices, particularly when the lore of the world beats you over the head that a certain thing is bad and/or scary, and scarybad.

 

Hypothetical DAO epilogue: "As a result of the Warden drinking the Alchemical Concoction and obtaining the ability to tap into the power of the Taint within her, shortly after the defeat of the Archdemon she turned into a ghoul and her face melted off."

[Ashagar]

Or the Warden and Hawke turned into a horrific abomination that wiped out a city and several towns before a certain seeker slew them adding to the legend they wish people would stop playing up.

[Ava Grey]

That's still kinda cheap, though. Really, there should be some repercussions against the PC for certain choices, particularly when the lore of the world beats you over the head that a certain thing is bad and/or scary, and scarybad.
 
Hypothetical DAO epilogue: "As a result of the Warden drinking the Alchemical Concoction and obtaining the ability to tap into the power of the Taint within her, shortly after the defeat of the Archdemon she turned into a ghoul and her face melted off."

I agree that I'd like to see 'bad for the PC' consequence of action, unfortunately too many players don't. In reality I believe all they really want is a different version of 'good outcome'. It's happened before that when a choice turns out to be detrimental to the character, the player doesn't like it and heads straight here and moans about 'railroading'. Which means unfortunately that Bioware finds itself in a catch 22. Damned iff they do, damned iff they don't. Thus I figure this is why we predominantly see 'bad/ alternate choices' affect others, not us.

As an example, I remember back not long after Origins was released that some players were absolutely incensed that the game was railroading them into choosing to perform the DR in order to keep their character or Alistair alive. I know this isn't quite the same as making a deal with a demon, but it does show how badly some players can react iff a choice they make in game turns out bad for them or doesn't go the way they think it should.

[Sable Rhapsody]

My motto has always been "Full steam ahead on the burning trainwreck."  And I'm sticking to it, even after Anders and Solas 

 

The definition of insanity, yeah? 

[Krypplingz]

Of course it does depend on the npc. If they are everything that I ever wanted wrapped up in a bloody bow I might go for it. But generally the rule is:

First playthrough, no. Especially if it's prefaced with "I'm not good enough for you" or "I might hurt you". It just turns my Western Approach into Emprise du Lion. 

Second playthrough, you'll need to beat me away with a stick. Usually by that part I know the twist and am just doing it for the bonus experience. 

 

Of course if it's a "I'm not interested in you, you disgust me and I hate you, please go away" situation, I will probably stay away. (Unless I can be a proper evil meanie, then maybe). 

 

As for the demon topic. I don't mind the PC loosing an item or a companion, but if a status point goes down then it's straight to the reload button. 

[nightscrawl]

Second playthrough, you'll need to beat me away with a stick. Usually by that part I know the twist and am just doing it for the bonus experience.

You don't think this ruins the impact? Like, I can't truly be horrified or devastated by the whole Blackwall or Solas thing since I know so much about it now.

In a similar vein, in retrospect I'm glad that I did end up romancing Anders for my first DA2 play because the whole ending thing was made so much more dramatic!

[Neria Rose]

To answer the OP, yup, I'll still do it. Solas and Anders are my favorite romances from DAI/DA2 and I remain stuck on them despite it all. I will say I do prefer fluffy clouds and rainbows romance endings with marriage and all kinds of fairy tale happiness, but not having that doesn't deter me from certain LIs.

[Krypplingz]

You don't think this ruins the impact? Like, I can't truly be horrified or devastated by the whole Blackwall or Solas thing since I know so much about it now.

In a similar vein, in retrospect I'm glad that I did end up romancing Anders for my first DA2 play because the whole ending thing was made so much more dramatic!

Eh, the reason I don't do it in a first playthrough is because the "I'm dangerous for you" comments just turns me off. Completely. So I'd be stuck romancing someone who I (at that point) found very unattractive. So romancing them would be a chore and not fun. 

I'd prefer it if the person was interested in me and excited to pursue the relationship, only to find out that they were the ones who blew up my homeplanet and the reason I went out on the adventure in the first place. And then having to pick between the life of my oldest friend and the love of my life. 

 

As for the impact, you usually get some of it even if you don't romance the person. And sometimes, the emotional distance you have as a friend can make you understand the gravity of the twist better, rather than someone who's head over heels in love. (_{Lengthy blabber about Blackwalls and Solas twist. There might be some horrid spelling/word mistakes, so be careful.})

Spoiler

Like with Blackwall, I was planning to romance him in the first playthrough, but wall flirt was too icky for me, so I skipped it, thinking I would get another chance.
Then hours pass and nothing. So I go on the forum and see that I missed the lock on flirt. I had made too much progress to want to reload, so I decided "I'll go for him some other time". But I also saw that there was something horrible that he had done, not what, just that some people were unhappy about it.

So more time passes and I'm mulling about the twist. During that time I hear him and Cole banter about a pretty woman and figured it was his wife/sister. I also hear that Blackwall cuts it off abruptly. So a light bulb goes on in my head.

"Oh!" I think. "He probably ended up brutally murdering his wife/sister with an axe. So you probably get some confession from him about how he lost his temper and as he was standing there covered in the innards of his beloved the guards came and he killed them all. In the end, when he stood above the smoldering remains of his old hometown he decided that his only redemption was to become a gray warden and give his life to ending the blight". And since this is all in my head I can visualize all the gritty details, imagine the horrid smells and all the good stuff. 

So when the truth came out it was kind of a relief/disappointment. Because I had braced myself for something truly vile and then it's just a mission gone wrong because of bad intel.

 

But since I was not romancing him, I didn't have a very compelling reason to bail him out. I had other party members who could fulfill his function in the team and he was not vital to the Inquisition success against Cory. So I had to leave my old crush to his death. Which was far more satisfying in drama rather than bailing my LI out and having an awkward kiss at court. 

 

In a similar vein, the first Trespasser run was with someone who was going to romance Solas, but it just became to depressing that she ended up with Blackwall. (It was like the third quizzy to reach the main games end.) So she basically got the twist from a dear friend who she still had some feelings for and saw as a kind hearted mentor. So she had the emotional distance to see how dreadful his plans were, but was close enough to him that stopping him would break her heart. As an added bonus Blackwall had joined the gray wardens properly. All this info came a few minutes before going to bed. So after I woke up the next morning I spent the first 10 minutes of the day crying quietly in my pillow. It was amazing.

[Carmen_Willow]

You don't think this ruins the impact? Like, I can't truly be horrified or devastated by the whole Blackwall or Solas thing since I know so much about it now.

In a similar vein, in retrospect I'm glad that I did end up romancing Anders for my first DA2 play because the whole ending thing was made so much more dramatic!

Exactly! I was "OMG, what the he** have you done, you idiot!" That first time was a kick in the gut! (I also missed getting Fenris that first playthrough, so I never did have the angsty-elf to tempt me away.)

[Andromelek]

Ironically, those romances are quite interesting compared to the others, so, yeah, I'll still do it.

[Ariella]

Doesn't Fenris warn Hawke as well?

[congokong]

I agree that I'd like to see 'bad for the PC' consequence of action, unfortunately too many players don't. In reality I believe all they really want is a different version of 'good outcome'. It's happened before that when a choice turns out to be detrimental to the character, the player doesn't like it and heads straight here and moans about 'railroading'. Which means unfortunately that Bioware finds itself in a catch 22. Dammed iff they do, dammed iff they don't. Thus I figure this is why we predominantly see 'bad/ alternate choices' affect others, not us.

As an example, I remember back not long after Origins was released that some players were absolutely incensed that the game was railroading them into choosing to perform the DR in order to keep their character or Alistair alive. I know this isn't quite the same as making a deal with a demon, but it does show how badly some players can react iff a choice they make in game turns out bad for them or doesn't go the way they think it should.

I have to agree from what I've seen that people in general aren't ok with bad endings for their characters. Most seem to see bad outcomes as an obstacle to overcome rather than a path their story can take. I'm going to tread lightly here and avoid giving details, but many people have scorned Mass Effect 3's ending because of being denied a true "happy ending" for their character no matter what you do.

 

 

You don't think this ruins the impact? Like, I can't truly be horrified or devastated by the whole Blackwall or Solas thing since I know so much about it now.
 

That's something I've noticed with later playthroughs. On my first I was pissed with Blackwall being a lying murderer that I left him in his cell to die. On later playthroughs though I saw that betrayal coming, and that made it easier to spare him. The whole situation becomes familiar to you, and it sways your choices. The same goes for, say, recruiting Zevran or Sten in DA:O. You as the player already can feel comfortable around them even before recruiting them because of being familiar with them in past playthroughs, while your character doesn't. That's where role-playing comes in. Remembering your first impressions towards a decision and how your character would likely react being the deciding factors is more honest. Another example is killing/sparing Anders. It's more likely people killed him on earlier ones than later ones after the "shock" wore off. I suspect many players who romanced Blackwall on their first blind playthrough would be more likely to dump him/let him die than those who went into it on later ones knowing how it goes.

 

 

You don't think this ruins the impact? Like, I can't truly be horrified or devastated by the whole Blackwall or Solas thing since I know so much about it now.

In a similar vein, in retrospect I'm glad that I did end up romancing Anders for my first DA2 play because the whole ending thing was made so much more dramatic!

What did you do with Anders in that playthrough? Were you devastated by what he did and/or felt betrayed?

[congokong]

Doesn't Fenris warn Hawke as well?

No. He'll initially question if you want to pursue a relationship with an escaped slave, and you can easily remove his doubts by mentioning your a refugee/apostate for example, but it's nothing like the "I need you to end this"/"I'll only hurt you"/"You'll regret this"/etc. declarations of those listed.

[Ava Grey]

I have to agree from what I've seen that people in general aren't ok with bad endings for their characters. Most seem to see bad outcomes as an obstacle to overcome rather than a path their story can take. I'm going to tread lightly here and avoid giving details, but many people have scorned Mass Effect 3's ending because of being denied a true "happy ending" for their character no matter what you do.

 

 

Heh, ME3's ending was the main example I had in mind as I was writing. I too chose to avoid it for obvious reasons lol

[berelinde]

If it has "trainwreck" written all over it, I'm going to try it. It's a moral imperative.