264 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaia300]

I have yet to use a Warden from the noble background,before to start a new game with a noble (last origin that i have to use in order to complete all origins) i read the background of the family in the wikia,and i didn't realize that there were so many famous member for this family in Thedas history.

Let's take a look

-Bann Sarim Cousland

-Teyrn Mather/ Cousland/Teyrna HaeliaCousland, who became a Teyrn after rallying an army against werewolves during the Black Age.

-Teyrna Elethea Cousland, the only Cousland Teyrna to hold the title both as an Alamarri, and a Fereldan; she fought against the unification of the tribes by the future King Calenhad Theirin, but ultimately joined Calenhad to retain her family's teyrnir.

-Bryce who fought with Maric and Loghain

-Eleanor Cousland who destroyed Orleisan battle ship at a young age

-The PC from that family who end the blight (optional) and can take the crown.....(optional)

 

but honestly i think that compared to others origin background aside from Aeducan

( but the PC can't ecome king or Queen ),this is really exagerated in the sense that it's seems that they monopolized Fereldan in terms of importance for what they did in the past.

Not to mention that they control Highever which was the place where both Calenhad and FLemeth started their legends.

[Ghost Gal]

Yes. Yes, they do.

 

Not even just in terms of historical figures and accomplishments, the game constantly rubs in how they're the most wonderful, beautiful, respected, beloved, adored, super-special-awesome family that ever existed.

 

Play the Human Noble Origin and wander around the castle and see how everyone (from servants to visitors) constantly sings their praises, gushes about how they're the most wonderful people ever, and even the historian can't stop bragging about how the Couslands were the most powerful barbarian clan back before Ferelden was founded, have remained the most wealthy, powerful, beloved noble family non-stop for the last thousand years, (even Darrin mentions how "there were some who wanted to make Bryce king instead of Cailan," because the game hadn't yet slapped us in the face enough times with how rich and powerful and universally beloved they are) and how they always sided with the "right side"  throughout history. Their founders fought against the invading King Calenhad to defend their home (and somehow didn't lose face when he won); they sided against the tyrant king Arland 200 years ago (and somehow didn't lose face for it the way the Grey Wardens did after they sided against him), they sided against the Orlesian oppressors with Maric and Loghain and became war heroes for it; I could go on and on.

 

Of course, only one person in the entire universe doesn't worship the ground the Couslands walks on, and he turns out to be an irredeemably evil complete monster who goes around kicking puppies and filling up his torture chamber (Howe), who in the end turns out to have no legitimate reason to dislike the Couslands; he's just jealous of them. Jealous of how wonderful, perfect, awesome, rich, powerful, and beloved they are. (I'm dead serious. Once the Warden Cousland confronts Howe near the end, all he really admits was that he was jealous of Bryce's wealth, power, and popularity.)

 

Because the entire ****** family is too perfect for anyone to dislike on their own merit; no flaws, no moral ambiguity, no feet of clay or skeletons in the closet (even their treatment of elven servants is hand-waved). Just pure perfection from beginning to end. BARF.

[Tidus]

I also thought the family was to perfect in every way you mention. The only story line is Pup Cousland wants revenge for Arl Howe murdering his family.

 

Even Ser  Jory calls him "My Lord Cousland" after Pup revealed who his father was. You need to have a conversation with Jory.

 

At least the Nobel Dwarf doesn't tell anybody other then King Cailan.

[straykat]

I would say there's a bit of irony and room for darkness, if a Cousland hooks up with Morrigan. The founder of the family and Cousland name only rose because they took over the original Teyrn who screwed over Flemeth. It'd be a little funny if a Cousland just ends up mingled with the same tale in the end.

[DebatableBubble]

They do and I love it. Proud Cousland player here.

[GoldenGail3]

Yes. Yes, they do.
 
Not even just in terms of historical figures and accomplishments, the game constantly rubs in how they're the most wonderful, beautiful, respected, beloved, adored, super-special-awesome family that ever existed.
 
Play the Human Noble Origin and wander around the castle and see how everyone (from servants to visitors) constantly sings their praises, gushes about how they're the most wonderful people ever, and even the historian can't stop bragging about how the Couslands were the most powerful barbarian clan back before Ferelden was founded, have remained the most wealthy, powerful, beloved noble family non-stop for the last thousand years, (even Darrin mentions how "there were some who wanted to make Bryce king instead of Cailan," because the game hadn't yet slapped us in the face enough times with how rich and powerful and universally beloved they are) and how they always sided with the "right side"  throughout history. Their founders fought against the invading King Calenhad to defend their home (and somehow didn't lose face when he won); they sided against the tyrant king Arland 200 years ago (and somehow didn't lose face for it the way the Grey Wardens did after they sided against him), they sided against the Orlesian oppressors with Maric and Loghain and became war heroes for it; I could go on and on.
 
Of course, only one person in the entire universe doesn't worship the ground the Couslands walks on, and he turns out to be an irredeemably evil complete monster who goes around kicking puppies and filling up his torture chamber (Howe), who in the end turns out to have no legitimate reason to dislike the Couslands; he's just jealous of them. Jealous of how wonderful, perfect, awesome, rich, powerful, and beloved they are. (I'm dead serious. Once the Warden Cousland confronts Howe near the end, all he really admits was that he was jealous of Bryce's wealth, power, and popularity.)
 
Because the entire ****** family is too perfect for anyone to dislike on their own merit; no flaws, no moral ambiguity, no feet of clay or skeletons in the closet (even their treatment of elven servants is hand-waved). Just pure perfection from beginning to end. BARF.

The Couslands should have a Arland in there history, it'd make them less shiny and pefrect-y. But I like them nevertheless, their my favorite family in Ferelden. I love Fergus.

[straykat]

For the record, I don't think Howe is just obsessed with the Couslands alone. They're both Northern/Coastland Ferelden, but Couslands hold primacy there. Howe is a vassal. There's political reasons for his jealousy, in addition to his personal problems.

 

Howe never liked the Wardens anyways, so the Couslands are all part of a bigger Ostagar plan. I like to say he's just like Jory's kid. Jory died in the Joining, with a son on the way. This kid is going to go grow up never knowing anything. Howe is even worse.. he was an older child, and grew up without his dad, and became bitter. He thought his dad abandoned him and his family, just to be a "big goddamn hero". In the end, his master plan is just revenge on this, and killing two birds with one stone by taking the Couslands out of the battle too.

[Ashagar]

Yes. Yes, they do.

 

Not even just in terms of historical figures and accomplishments, the game constantly rubs in how they're the most wonderful, beautiful, respected, beloved, adored, super-special-awesome family that ever existed.

 

Play the Human Noble Origin and wander around the castle and see how everyone (from servants to visitors) constantly sings their praises, gushes about how they're the most wonderful people ever, and even the historian can't stop bragging about how the Couslands were the most powerful barbarian clan back before Ferelden was founded, have remained the most wealthy, powerful, beloved noble family non-stop for the last thousand years, (even Darrin mentions how "there were some who wanted to make Bryce king instead of Cailan," because the game hadn't yet slapped us in the face enough times with how rich and powerful and universally beloved they are) and how they always sided with the "right side"  throughout history. Their founders fought against the invading King Calenhad to defend their home (and somehow didn't lose face when he won); they sided against the tyrant king Arland 200 years ago (and somehow didn't lose face for it the way the Grey Wardens did after they sided against him), they sided against the Orlesian oppressors with Maric and Loghain and became war heroes for it; I could go on and on.

 

Of course, only one person in the entire universe doesn't worship the ground the Couslands walks on, and he turns out to be an irredeemably evil complete monster who goes around kicking puppies and filling up his torture chamber (Howe), who in the end turns out to have no legitimate reason to dislike the Couslands; he's just jealous of them. Jealous of how wonderful, perfect, awesome, rich, powerful, and beloved they are. (I'm dead serious. Once the Warden Cousland confronts Howe near the end, all he really admits was that he was jealous of Bryce's wealth, power, and popularity.)

 

Because the entire ****** family is too perfect for anyone to dislike on their own merit; no flaws, no moral ambiguity, no feet of clay or skeletons in the closet (even their treatment of elven servants is hand-waved). Just pure perfection from beginning to end. BARF.

 

Poppycock, if they were perfect Howe would have never been able to pull off what he did, also Arland pointedly did culled the family even if he didn't remove them from power to prevent them from rebelling again. It telling that before that they get mentioned for being opponents of the Royal Line before but afterwards they are oh so loyal to the throne. They Also only became rulers of Highover because their ancestor seized it after flemeth killed the previous rulers, it was supposed to go to the Howes the nearest relatives.

[Illegitimus]

Yes. Yes, they do.

 

Not even just in terms of historical figures and accomplishments, the game constantly rubs in how they're the most wonderful, beautiful, respected, beloved, adored, super-special-awesome family that ever existed.

 

Play the Human Noble Origin and wander around the castle and see how everyone (from servants to visitors) constantly sings their praises, gushes about how they're the most wonderful people ever, and even the historian can't stop bragging about how the Couslands were the most powerful barbarian clan back before Ferelden was founded, have remained the most wealthy, powerful, beloved noble family non-stop for the last thousand years, (even Darrin mentions how "there were some who wanted to make Bryce king instead of Cailan," because the game hadn't yet slapped us in the face enough times with how rich and powerful and universally beloved they are) and how they always sided with the "right side"  throughout history. Their founders fought against the invading King Calenhad to defend their home (and somehow didn't lose face when he won); t

 

Er...that was fighting on the wrong side, not the right side.  

[Tidus]

Ashagar, Arl Howe was a trusted friend and Teyrn Cousland  had no reason to suspect Howe's treachery. In short Arl Howe was smiling in  Bryce's face  while getting ready to plant a dagger in his back.

[jros83]

Yes. Yes, they do.

 

Not even just in terms of historical figures and accomplishments, the game constantly rubs in how they're the most wonderful, beautiful, respected, beloved, adored, super-special-awesome family that ever existed.

 

Play the Human Noble Origin and wander around the castle and see how everyone (from servants to visitors) constantly sings their praises, gushes about how they're the most wonderful people ever, and even the historian can't stop bragging about how the Couslands were the most powerful barbarian clan back before Ferelden was founded, have remained the most wealthy, powerful, beloved noble family non-stop for the last thousand years, (even Darrin mentions how "there were some who wanted to make Bryce king instead of Cailan," because the game hadn't yet slapped us in the face enough times with how rich and powerful and universally beloved they are) and how they always sided with the "right side"  throughout history. Their founders fought against the invading King Calenhad to defend their home (and somehow didn't lose face when he won); they sided against the tyrant king Arland 200 years ago (and somehow didn't lose face for it the way the Grey Wardens did after they sided against him), they sided against the Orlesian oppressors with Maric and Loghain and became war heroes for it; I could go on and on.

 

Of course, only one person in the entire universe doesn't worship the ground the Couslands walks on, and he turns out to be an irredeemably evil complete monster who goes around kicking puppies and filling up his torture chamber (Howe), who in the end turns out to have no legitimate reason to dislike the Couslands; he's just jealous of them. Jealous of how wonderful, perfect, awesome, rich, powerful, and beloved they are. (I'm dead serious. Once the Warden Cousland confronts Howe near the end, all he really admits was that he was jealous of Bryce's wealth, power, and popularity.)

 

Because the entire ****** family is too perfect for anyone to dislike on their own merit; no flaws, no moral ambiguity, no feet of clay or skeletons in the closet (even their treatment of elven servants is hand-waved). Just pure perfection from beginning to end. BARF.

 

Relax.

 

Breathe.

 

It's a video game...

[Ashagar]

Ashagar, Arl Howe was a trusted friend and Teyrn Cousland  had no reason to suspect Howe's treachery. In short Arl Howe was smiling in  Bryce's face  while getting ready to plant a dagger in his back.

 

Yes but things weren't always so rosy between the Howes and the Couslands, it was Arl Howe and Teryn Coulsand who apparently buried the ax so to speak during the last years of the war.

[straykat]

Bryce Cousland is just a bad judge of character.

 

He should have judged Howe just for being an ugly bastard to begin with.

 

But no, he's the nice guy who had to see good in him. There's a flaw for you.

[caradoc2000]

Arl Howe was a trusted friend and Teyrn Cousland  had no reason to suspect Howe's treachery.

No reason? Come on, voiced by Tim Curry? Even the most ignorant Teyrn has to suspect trickery.

[Aren]

Yes,they are so perfect that even our lovely Isabela know their name and mention them in DAII....

Why?

Obviously because Fergus went to her before to marry his Antivan wife.

(Nah that's just my headcanon)

but all in all i do not see a flaw in this family,i like more the Aeducan their history is filled with cruel people who killed their own relatives in order to get the crown,Endrin did the same and Bhelen copied from him,hopefully Bhelen only had 1 son named like his father,this will hopefully avoid more bloodshed in that rotten family.

[straykat]

 

Yes,they are so perfect that even our lovely Isabela know their name and mention them in DAII....

Why?

Obviously because Fergus went to her before to marry his Antivan wife.

(Nah that's just my headcanon)

but all in all i do not see a flaw in this family,i like more the Aeducan their history is filled with cruel people who killed their own relatives in order to get the crown,Endrin did the same and Bhelen copied from him,hopefully Bhelen only had 1 son named like his father,this will hopefully avoid more bloodshed in that rotten family.

 

 

There's a place for everything though. The Aeducans are supposed to display more Machiavellian stuff. I know Gaider was purposely tapping into more traditional knightly stuff with the Couslands. He even mentioned Arthur, I think. It becomes even more like that with Morrigan.. a lot of those tales have someone being talked into dark rituals in the night, having sex with witches, giving rise to some demon spawn child. It's classic Hero's Fall. So it'd make some sense if the Cousland started off fairly clean at first.

 

Only problem is that they didn't deliver. The OGB is no Mordred. It's just happy ending stuff. They're too afraid of making any consequences to questionable choices. Even that CGI flick about Beowulf did this better. Perhaps because of the blowback from DA2/ME3. I don't know.

[Ghost Gal]

The Couslands should have a Arland in there history, it'd make them less shiny and pefrect-y. But I like them nevertheless, their my favorite family in Ferelden. I love Fergus.

 

I would honestly not be so annoyed if they did have an Arland in there, or a few less-than-stellar historical figures who are remembered for doing not-so-great things (not horrible tyranny, but not "stellar war hero" either), or on the whole were shown to have a realistic balance of flaws and virtues like everyone else.

 

Or if they were revealed to have feet of clay. For how much the game kept jamming down my throat with a toilet plunger how perfect they are, I kept expecting to learn something not-so-great about them (like maybe they really didn't treat their elves very well, or it turned out Bryce really was a traitor for Orlais like Howe said because of some misguided attempt to do good), but nope; they really are just that perfect.

 

I personally love the City Elf family to bits, not just because I love their virtues more, but because they have realistic flaws. Daddy Tabris is kind, gentle, loving... and he's (potentially) forcing you into an arranged marriage out of a misguided attempt to give you the marital bliss he experienced with your mother. Mommy Adaia "was beautiful, and full of life... and a bit wild," and said wildness got her killed. Your cousin Shianni is a fun-loving spitfire... and she drinks too much. Cousin Soris is very amiable, but he's a bit of a coward. 

 

The game doesn't put you in a choke-hold trying to force you to find them the most perfect lovable family you've ever seen, it introduces you to some likable but realistically flawed people and gives you room to feel endeared or annoyed by their quirks and flaws, depending on your preferences. I love the hell out of that!

 

Poppycock, if they were perfect Howe would have never been able to pull off what he did, also Arland pointedly did culled the family even if he didn't remove them from power to prevent them from rebelling again. It telling that before that they get mentioned for being opponents of the Royal Line before but afterwards they are oh so loyal to the throne. They Also only became rulers of Highover because their ancestor seized it after flemeth killed the previous rulers, it was supposed to go to the Howes the nearest relatives.

 

Er...that was fighting on the wrong side, not the right side.  

 

Answering two posts with one.

 

And yet, the information is presented in-universe as them doing the right thing for the right reasons. "Oh, they were just defending their home from a conquering invader" and "Oh, they were defending the country against a tyrant." And again, they never suffer any negative consequences for it in-universe. The Grey Wardens and Couslands both fight against Arland, yet the Wardens got vilified and exiled for it and still remain in the hot seat for it over two hundred years later, while the Couslands remained the most powerful and popular family non-stop despite doing the exact same thing.

 

I personally think it's bull that two groups rebelled against the exact same tyrant in a civil war, yet history remembers one group as vile traitors for siding against the king while it remembers the other as brave defenders of the land for standing up to a tyrant. Classic Mary Sue trait, where Sue and non-Sue do the same thing but only non-Sue gets criticized or punished or has to deal with realistic consequences for it while Sue gets instantly forgiven / praised for it.

 

(Also, gotta love how the only two people in Ferelden history who raised a hand against the Couslands were both irredeemably evil tyrants, Arland and Howe. At least with Aeducan, it makes it clear that dwarven politics are not pretty and everyone gets their hands dirty. Some people hate or back-stab the Aeducans, but that's understandable because some Aeducans can be real jerks and they back-stab too. Even Ferelden politics make it clear that bickering, in-fighting, and power-grabbing is the norm. But of course the Couslands are above all that riff-raff; they've never engaged in any petty bickering or in-fighting, they never got into a border dispute with a neighbor. They were always the stalwart knight-in-shining armor with pure white morality to this world's black and grey morality.)

 

Bryce Cousland is just a bad judge of character.

 

He should have judged Howe just for being an ugly bastard to begin with.

 

But no, he's the nice guy who had to see good in him. There's a flaw for you.

 

Yeah, that's it. His only flaw is that he's just too wonderful. 

[straykat]

Yeah, that's it. His only flaw is that he's just too wonderful. 

 

It's a joke..

 

Kinda. I think I'll say probably say the same thing about the new ISIS video. Who could possibly think these guys are good? They look like they were spawned from goats. Betas. The whole lot. Can you not be more obviously the "villain"?

[Ghost Gal]

It's a joke..

 

Kinda. I think I'll say probably say the same thing about the new ISIS video. Who could possibly think these guys are good? They look like they were spawned from goats. Betas. The whole lot. Can you not be more obviously the "villain"?

 

Gotta love how a game that prides itself on being a "dark fantasy" filled with black and grey morality and gray and grey morality on all sides, the Couslands and Rendon Howe stand out as the one shining example of "obviously, clearly, pure white" and "obviously, clearly, pure black" morality, with Couslands as the spotless white and Howe as the darkest black.

[straykat]

Gotta love how a game that prides itself on being a "dark fantasy" filled with black and grey morality and gray and grey morality on all sides, the Couslands and Rendon Howe stand out as the one shining example of "obviously, clearly, pure white" and "obviously, clearly, pure black" morality, with Couslands as the spotless white and Howe as the darkest black.

 

It's a long game though. All of that could easily go bad, with a character like this.

 

Just like bastard Aeducan feels like crap and might redeem himself/herself later.

 

I think a lot of the origins have this potential to see-saw by the end of the game. The only ones I feel good about throughout is Dwarf Commoner and City Elf (but even then, there's room for screwy stuff).

 

The real shame is there isn't much follow through in DAI.

[Illegitimus]

 

 

And yet, the information is presented in-universe as them doing the right thing for the right reasons. "Oh, they were just defending their home from a conquering invader" 

 

Er...exactly how do you expect a Cousland family retainer to describe the family's past to one of his employers?   He's an old man dependent on their good will.  You think he's going to be blunt about them having been one of the biggest obstacles to Ferelden's unification?  Or to bring up the most embarrassing misdeeds of their ancestors?  

 

Also I suspect the reason why the Couslands didn't lose their terynship under Arland is because they pulled that trick where in a civil war you have some of your people fight on each side so that no matter which side wins the family doesn't lose.  

[Ashagar]

Or just as likely insured that if they were removed the country would fall into chaos again, either method historically has been used though history is filled with powerful families like the Couslands that in spite of being troublesome for kings or emperors stayed in power for one reason or another.

[Illegitimus]

Or just as likely insured that if they were removed the country would fall into chaos again, either method historically has been used though history is filled with powerful families like the Couslands that in spite of being troublesome for kings or emperors stayed in power for one reason or another.

 

One thing we can say for pretty sure about Arland.  He wasn't politically astute enough to count the cost.  Although actually I wonder whether the Cousland who got to be the new Teyrn got it because he outright betrayed the conspiracy against Arland.  

[Ashagar]

Given the amount of troops he likely wasted in besieging and assaulting Warden's Keep he might have not had enough troops or support from the nobles following him no matter how much they feared him. Fortresses and castles are generally designed so small forces can wreak havoc on much larger forces, throw in that the wardens were a elite force the assaulting forces likely lost quite a number of troops in the siege even before the demons and the undead became a factor. I might be also misremembering but I seem to recall a letter you can find where the assaulting commander was asking for more troops because of the losses.

[RoseLawliet]

I'm sorry, but... did we actually get to a point where we're complaining now about a powerful family not being jerks and completely self-centered? I don't even think that of this family, for the specific reason that the vast majority of the Couslands throughout history have not been named. We know, what, ten of these people? Fifteen? Out of how many who apparently did absolutely nothing?

 

As for visiting nobles and the servants praising you... yeah, they're going to do that. Outside of the royal family, any noble who visits the Couslands is going to be lower in rank (ignoring the Mac Tirs)... So not only are they going to have less might, some of the banns and arls are actually sworn to this family. It's kind of like making polite small talk with the people who annoy you at family gatherings and holidays, but so much worse because the Couslands have the right of high justice over them. Also of note, the visiting nobles in the origin story are at least claiming to seek a marriage with the younger Cousland child (Dairren and allegedly Thomas for a daughter, allegedly Delilah for a son). It would be exceedingly stupid of them to expect the Couslands to seriously consider their offers if they're not at least civil. As far as I'm aware, a little flattery is to be expected.

 

And that's not even addressing the servants. Do you remember how Nan treats the elves in the kitchen? Even if the Warden also treats them just as badly, they won't back talk them like they do Nan because this family provides their livelihood. According to various sources (I think some of the elves in the city elf origin), the Highever alienage is not that great. For an alienage. To me, that means it's bad. The worst accommodations in or around the castle are probably infinitely better than the alienage.