264 réponses à ce sujet

[Tidus]

Qis, Allow me to bring that in perspective. In the days of my youth I fought a war nobody wanted..Today we are friends with this country.. Do I feel betrayed? Nope.. That's how war is and always will be.

 

Loghain's hate for  Orlais twisted his mind and he could no longer see the real threat was the Drakspawn and not the Orlesians and the Greys.. While he was busy trying to kill the wardens and hating the Orlesians the Southern part of Ferelden fell to Darkspawn. Think of it.. While he was saving his country from the evil Orlesians and the GWs  the Darkspawn was ripping the country apart.

[Qis]

Loghain take the war personally, it is about him, look at his tantrum in the Landsmeet, hhe talks about himself, for me he's not a gentlemen at all, anyone who take war personally are not a gentlemen.

 

My country have war with many enemies, from west to the east for 400 years, many of my family members was soldiers as well my ancestors, but do we hate everyone who invade us just for the sake of hating? No...what past is past, today there are many tourists and most of them are considered enemies/invaders in the past...

 

By Loghain character alone, he's not a good general, because he put his hatred over his judgment, his war is based on hate

[Willowhugger]

I don't think the Couslands are Mary Sues.

However, it would be nice to make it so they have bigger flaws than being horrible judges of character.

It'd be nice, for example, to find out Bryce's dad was a tyrant and a drunk for instance.

Part of what I liked about the history of Westeros is the Starks actually had quite a few **** members.

[Qis]

No, i like the Cousland as they are....no drug, no drinking, no gambling, no slavery and...no sex (hahaha)

 

All those things if you want it so much just make your Cousland character done all those stuff

 

Leave the Cousland alone...

[Tidus]

Qis, Loghain's rant reminds me of Hitler's bunker room rant in the movie  "Downfall".  I was expecting him to start throwing his hands about and start screaming how he should have executed all of the Arls.

[Willowhugger]

No, i like the Cousland as they are....no drug, no drinking, no gambling, no slavery and...no sex (hahaha)

 

All those things if you want it so much just make your Cousland character done all those stuff

 

Leave the Cousland alone...

 

Eh, Bryce is awesome.

I'm just saying goodness and honor isn't hereditary.

[Qis]

Eh, Bryce is awesome.

I'm just saying goodness and honor isn't hereditary.

 

In Cousland case, it does...unless you make your Cousland character otherwise

 

"Duty must come first..." Bryce said...

[Illegitimus]

In Cousland case, it does...unless you make your Cousland character otherwise

 

"Duty must come first..." Bryce said...

 

Oh come on.  We don't have a real history of the Couslands.  All we know is that Bryce and Fergus seem to be straight shooters and they had a ancestor who fought against the unification of Ferelden.  But one Cousland plotted against a tyrannical king and one Cousland managed to be on good enough terms with that same tyrannical king that he was acceptable as a successor to that first one.  

[Tidus]

Illgeitimus, I've met people like the Couslands that believe in doing one's duty to God and Country..

 

Both the husband and wife drove for years without a ticket of any kind. Both did volunteer work for charities including standing  inclement weather ringing those Salvation Army bells around Christmas time.. 

 

So,there are folk like the Couslands around.

[Illegitimus]

Illgeitimus, I've met people like the Couslands that believe in doing one's duty to God and Country..

 

Both the husband and wife drove for years without a ticket of any kind. Both did volunteer work for charities including standing  inclement weather ringing those Salvation Army bells around Christmas time.. 

 

So,there are folk like the Couslands around.

 

Sure there are.  But that's not the same thing as assuming that there are no black sheep in their line just because we don't have a complete history of it and the most recent ones seem very nice.  

[Qis]

Oh come on.  We don't have a real history of the Couslands.  All we know is that Bryce and Fergus seem to be straight shooters and they had a ancestor who fought against the unification of Ferelden.  But one Cousland plotted against a tyrannical king and one Cousland managed to be on good enough terms with that same tyrannical king that he was acceptable as a successor to that first one.  

 

Yes they fought Calenhad, but lost, and Calenhad was honorable one, Cousland too. That's why they can work together. It just common in ancient time, ancient people value honor. When defeated, but if the enemy show admirable honor, they would like to serve this person who defeat them.

 

Look at Turk expansion, Turkish army consist of slaves taken from around Europe who lost fighting with the Turk, but later this slave army is a respectable one in the society, they are called Janissary. Becoming a Janissary is a highest honor in Turkish empire and everyone want to become Janissary.

 

Clearly they are not like Loghain and Howe, these two have no honor.

[Illegitimus]

Yes they fought Calenhad, but lost, and Calenhad was honorable one, Cousland too. That's why they can work together. It just common in ancient time, ancient people value honor. When defeated, but if the enemy show admirable honor, they would like to serve this person who defeat them.

 

Look at Turk expansion, Turkish army consist of slaves taken from around Europe who lost fighting with the Turk, but later this slave army is a respectable one in the society, they are called Janissary. Becoming a Janissary is a highest honor in Turkish empire and everyone want to become Janissary.

 

Clearly they are not like Loghain and Howe, these two have no honor.

 

Come to think of it...How Calenhad dealt with the Cousland who fought him sheds an interesting light on the decision of a Cousland who spares Loghain.  

[Qis]

Come to think of it...How Calenhad dealt with the Cousland who fought him sheds an interesting light on the decision of a Cousland who spares Loghain.  

 

Not the same at all, Calenhad and Cousland fought war on battlefield, Loghain is not but instead he hunted down The Warden, it's totally a different case

[Illegitimus]

Not the same at all, Calenhad and Cousland fought war on battlefield, Loghain is not but instead he hunted down The Warden, it's totally a different case

 

Calenhad spared his enemy when he didn't have to.  The rest is details.  Details that are mostly unknown.  

[Qis]

Calenhad spared his enemy when he didn't have to.  The rest is details.  Details that are mostly unknown.  

 

 No, Calenhad want to unite Ferelden, the war is just for unity. Just like Argamemnon in Troy, he unite the Greeks to against Troy by waging war with the Greeks. It's common in ancient time. Even Alexander the Great do the same, Persian kings ad so many more, it is just ancient way. The defeated end up working with the victorious, it's about honor.

 

Loghain in other way have nothing only want to save his butt, The Warden know the truth, that's the reason he hunted him/her down. Then he done a lot of crimes, cover them up, blaming grey Wardens for his paranoia about the Orlais, even to the point where he lost the Landsmeet still he don't want to stand down. So off with his head.

 

Today world is a world contaminated with modern judgment on everythings, not using the same measurement as the peoples of the past....in today thinking it is impossible for the defeated working with the victor, but in ancient time it is different way, war itself have different meaning. Today wars have no honor...

[Tidus]

Qis,Your correct about Loghain and Howe lacking honor. Just for fun I replayed a save landsmeet last night and lost the duel.. The duel agreement was to battle until one yields.. Loghain yields and the warden honors the rules.. Loghain kills the warden.

 

Loghain ordered the killing of the Couslands and plan the attack for Howe to use-wait until the main force leaves and then attack Brice. No honor, no glory, just plain murder of men women and children.

 

Loghain is no better then the Orlaisian usurper that sat upon  Ferelden's  throne during Orlais occupation of Ferelden..

 

 

 

And your correct.. There is no honor in war.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

To me, the Couslands are the medieval versions of the Wayne family. I mean there are very wealthy and powerful people who are nice to others, both in fiction and in real life.

[Illegitimus]

 No, Calenhad want to unite Ferelden, the war is just for unity. Just like Argamemnon in Troy, he unite the Greeks to against Troy by waging war with the Greeks. It's common in ancient time. Even Alexander the Great do the same, Persian kings ad so many more, it is just ancient way. The defeated end up working with the victorious, it's about honor.

 

Loghain in other way have nothing only want to save his butt, 

 

I wasn't comparing Loghain to Calenhad.  I was comparing the Cousland Warden to Calenhad.  My Cousland married Alistair to Anora because he figured that was the best chance of restoring unity and stability to the kingdom.  He chose to not kill Loghain because he figured the Anora/Alistair combination had a better chance of working if he didn't splash Anora with her father's blood.  So in a sense in that story, Cousland listening to the story of Calenhad sparing his ancestress when he didn't have to, turned out to be foreshadowing of the decision he would eventually make.

[Aren]

 

Cousland: "OH, YOU POOR THING! You poor, innocent, blameless little victim! How could that horrible monster do that to your poor, perfect, flawless, blameless family? Don't you worry, sweetie. Once this is over that horrible monster will get his, your family will get back all the lands and titles and prestige they lost and then some, and then we'll even give you the option to rise even further up the social ladder (even though you were already the second highest to begin with) and make you King/Queen of an entire country on top of getting back everything you lost! Isn't that wonderful?"

 

I played with a canon Cousland who in the end took the crown as king of Ferelden,whoever i agree with this point.

Howe was portrayed as an outrageously villainous character that had no real reason to hate the Cousland.

Unlike all the others ending at the end this Origin is even allowed to took the crown and be even more wealthy than they have started...and yes with that warden i felt like a mary sue....

Let's not even forget that with the male warden you don't even need the DR to took the crown and so there is no "drama/compromises at all" just your solo win/win ending

 

I wouldn't have liked to be Guerrin to be honest. They are one manplative, messed up family they are. I hope that Connor isn't the same way. And I like the Couslands... They are bad arses, all of them.

Not really i think Fergus isn't that awesome and actually never did anything particularly noteworthy.

Aside from the PC Bryce and Eleanor and their Teyrna ancestors who defeated the plague of the werewolves in the dark age they are forgettable.

3 (mandatory) and one non mandatory person are relevant from this family

[GoldenGail3]

Not really i think Fergus isn't that awesome and actually never did anything particularly noteworthy.
Aside from the PC Bryce and Eleanor and their Teyrna ancestors who defeated the plague of the werewolves in the dark age they are forgettable.
3 (mandatory) and one non mandatory person are relevant from this family

Fergus always survives the attack at Highever, which makes him pretty awesome anyhow.

[Aren]

 

 

Loghain ordered the killing of the Couslands and plan the attack for Howe to use-wait until the main force leaves and then attack Brice. No honor, no glory, just plain murder of men women and children.

 

Your blind hatred towards Loghain obfuscated all the reasonable judgment.

Loghain have nothing to do with the attack on Highever and this is word of Gaider.

[Aren]

Fergus always survives the attack at Highever, which makes him pretty awesome anyhow.

He survive because he was not there.

He lost all of his men (that's why he is unable to took Highever back) and for entire year was sick and did nothing to help his sister/brother.

[Tidus]

Aren,I,m sorry but, I fear your loyalty  for Loghain has blinded you  beyond reason.

 

Loghain is behind the attack on Brice-you can see his style of planning if not you haven't read "The Stolen Throne". 

 

I will also will point out  Loghain made Howe the Arl of Highever as a reward. That's straight from Howe's lips.

 

My hate is not blinded.. I've seen what Loghain did and what he truly is..  He's crazed beyond reasoning and needs killed not cuddled...

[Farci Reprimer]

Aren,I,m sorry but, I fear your loyalty  for Loghain has blinded you  beyond reason.

 

Loghain is behind the attack on Brice-you can see his style of planning if not you haven't read "The Stolen Throne". 

 

I will also will point out  Loghain made Howe the Arl of Highever as a reward. That's straight from Howe's lips.

 

My hate is not blinded.. I've seen what Loghain did and what he truly is..  He's crazed beyond reasoning and needs killed not cuddled...

 

 

Dont you think Loghain had nothing better to do on his free-time than orchestrate a mass murder of random noble family all the way from Ostagar?

 

What the heck would he gain from that?

 

What Anora says after you rescue her from Howe makes much more sense. Howe was simply opportunist when he took Highever and Loghain simply saw that he was more useful as ally than enemy. When he returned to Denerim. AFTER Howe had already crushed Highever. Granting him the title of Arl of Highever was simply acknowledging the already known fact that Howe ruled that land.

 

Loghain didnt exactly have the luxury of being picky of his allies. Not when there was so much opposition against him.

[Tidus]

Yet,Loghain set up the poisoning of the Arl of Redcliff and without a doubt planed the execution of the Couslans,the betrayal of King Cailan and the wardens before going to Ostagar. Do recall he freed Jowan from the castle's dungeon  and had him to poison Eamon.

 

Loghain in his twisted mind planed everything. Loghain even betrayed Howe in order to shift blame..

 

In  5 of my 6 mage games a Orlesian bard  kills him. In the 6th game my Arcane warrior kills him. in other games either a Elven or Dwarf rogue kills him except for one where Pup Cousland kills him.That was the only game I completed with a human.