264 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashagar]

Actually the Highover alienage is supposed to nicer than the other Ferelden Alienages to according in game lore from what I remember, of course nicer likely doesn't mean much when it comes to such place given the nature of such places though apparently even the worse Ferelden Alienages are better than the Orleisian alienages.

[RoseLawliet]

...Well. Leave it to a shem not to know which alienages are better. I have some re-reading to do now.

[Ashagar]

Well if nothing else at least the Ferelden's nobles don't hunt elves and cut their ears off like the Orlesians to proof their worth as Chevaliers or hunt them simply for sport or to cull the population.

[Tidus]

Actually the Orlesian Elves are better off then the Ferelden Elves according to Leliana in DA:O. There are Nobel Elves in Orlais that has Elven servants. Orlesian Elven servants are paid. 

 

Rose,According to some of the Dragon Age books there's a lot of Eleven Grey Wardens. Even Alistair's mother was a Elven Grey Warden mage not a common servant like he is lead to believe. Duncan knew this fact. 

 

It seems King Meric had a thing about Elven females.

[Illegitimus]

I'm sorry, but... did we actually get to a point where we're complaining now about a powerful family not being jerks and completely self-centered? I don't even think that of this family, for the specific reason that the vast majority of the Couslands throughout history have not been named. We know, what, ten of these people? Fifteen? Out of how many who apparently did absolutely nothing?

 

As for visiting nobles and the servants praising you... yeah, they're going to do that. Outside of the royal family, any noble who visits the Couslands is going to be lower in rank (ignoring the Mac Tirs)... So not only are they going to have less might, some of the banns and arls are actually sworn to this family. It's kind of like making polite small talk with the people who annoy you at family gatherings and holidays, but so much worse because the Couslands have the right of high justice over them. Also of note, the visiting nobles in the origin story are at least claiming to seek a marriage with the younger Cousland child (Dairren and allegedly Thomas for a daughter, allegedly Delilah for a son). It would be exceedingly stupid of them to expect the Couslands to seriously consider their offers if they're not at least civil. As far as I'm aware, a little flattery is to be expected.

 

And that's not even addressing the servants. Do you remember how Nan treats the elves in the kitchen? Even if the Warden also treats them just as badly, they won't back talk them like they do Nan because this family provides their livelihood. According to various sources (I think some of the elves in the city elf origin), the Highever alienage is not that great. For an alienage. To me, that means it's bad. The worst accommodations in or around the castle are probably infinitely better than the alienage.

 

You are misremembering.  Highever is mentioned as a place where the evicted family from Denerim can go if the City Elf is generous...but not too generous but the reason why they'd prefer to stay in Denerim is not because Highever is any worse in general but because their ties are with Denerim.  The symbol of City Elf is a rooted tree for a reason.  Highever Alienage's living conditions are probably about the same leaving aside Vaughn's decision to exploit the presumed inability of elves to fight back when he feels like a bit of rape.  As for Nan and the servants, I doubt they take her seriously.  They're certainly more frightened of the dog and the rats.  

 

It is true that the Couslands in their interaction with each other do portray a nearly perfect family dynamic, devoid of dark elements or conflict unless you elect to make yourself the problem child who is rude to guests, seduces servants and hectors your parents about their protectiveness.  But of course that's just the set up for their mass murder.  There's no point in having a complex and painful family dynamic when none of that will matter an hour later.  When the city elf was younger her family life was probably almost equally ideal with loving parents, an affectionate cousin-playmate, and probably the highest income in the alienage, however illegal it might be.  

 

Mary Sueness is not "niceness" or even "unfailing luck" although their luck certainly did fail.  Some Mary Sues are just horrible people.  It's "the author loves Mary Sue and wants to make everything about her (or him)."  If the Couslands really were a Mary Sue family then you'd find stuff like all the nobles at the landsmeet moaning about great they were and what a great loss it is for them to be gone.  Instead the massacre of the Couslands is a footnote, just something that makes Eamon's illness more suspicious.  

 

 

Actually the Orlesian Elves are better off then the Ferelden Elves according to Leliana in DA:O. There are Nobel Elves in Orlais that has Elven servants. Orlesian Elven servants are paid. 

 

 

Elven servants are paid in Ferelden as well.  Not as well as the Orlesians nobles pay, but they are paid.  However the vast majority of Orlesian elves are not the servants of nobility and live very differently than the pampered pets Leliana is familiar with.  Of course Orlesian commoners are typically much more poorly treated than human Ferelden commoners (Vaughn's behavior being unremarkable were he a Orlesian nobleman and wouldn't have become more so if his forced playmates had been human.)

[Dai Grepher]

I reject the Gary/Mary Sue trope for the Couslands. Sometimes people really are just that damn good, and it's refreshing to see it.

 

But there's just two things, the Couslands are beset by tragedy. They were butchered by King Arland when they supported Sophia Dryden. They were betrayed during the Orlesian occupation and forced from their ancestral home. They were betrayed by Loghain and Rendon. Their eldest lost his wife and son. Their youngest is either dead or tainted and probably won't have a child who isn't involved in dark magic. Also, the youngest can be evil depending on player choice. You can even threaten to cut out your nanny's tongue.

 

But my main Hero is a morally right M!Cousland who becomes king. So I am a proud member of the Cousland Awesomeness.

[RoseLawliet]

I reject the Gary/Mary Sue trope for the Couslands. Sometimes people really are just that damn good, and it's refreshing to see it.

 

But there's just two things, the Couslands are beset by tragedy. They were butchered by King Arland when they supported Sophia Dryden. They were betrayed during the Orlesian occupation and forced from their ancestral home. They were betrayed by Loghain and Rendon. Their eldest lost his wife and son. Their youngest is either dead or tainted and probably won't have a child who isn't involved in dark magic. Also, the youngest can be evil depending on player choice. You can even threaten to cut out your nanny's tongue.

 

But my main Hero is a morally right M!Cousland who becomes king. So I am a proud member of the Cousland Awesomeness.

 

So... a family of Woobies, then? I want a griffon monument for Oren.

[Aren]

There's a place for everything though. The Aeducans are supposed to display more Machiavellian stuff. I know Gaider was purposely tapping into more traditional knightly stuff with the Couslands. He even mentioned Arthur, I think. It becomes even more like that with Morrigan.. a lot of those tales have someone being talked into dark rituals in the night, having sex with witches, giving rise to some demon spawn child. It's classic Hero's Fall. So it'd make some sense if the Cousland started off fairly clean at first.

 

Only problem is that they didn't deliver. The OGB is no Mordred. It's just happy ending stuff. They're too afraid of making any consequences to questionable choices. Even that CGI flick about Beowulf did this better. Perhaps because of the blowback from DA2/ME3. I don't know.

That's is following the lore , i mean if the OGb was fathered by a Cousland then,no matter at how "weird" the mother or the grandmother

(Flemeth of course not Eleanor) are or at how evil the soul of the archdemon could have been,the child cannot be a Mordred 2.0 because is a Cousland,a family without black sheeps.

Every other origins has it's flaws,look at the Amell they have black sheeps too (Gamlen....),or Brosca,but the Maker forbid that the Cousland could have one single member of their family with a flaw despite all the betrayals that they suffered in their history.....

[Ashagar]

Yes because clearly the old god child is going to magically plot to usurp their parent as a child. Even Mordred served Arthur for many years as a adult before their betrayal while Arthur was out of the kingdom (either Invading the Roman empire or trying to avenge himself on Lancelot), which also came after the death of all Arthur's legitimate male children.(Yes Arthur had children in the legends, they just had a tendency to get murdered or otherwise killed.)

[Illegitimus]

 

That's is following the lore , i mean if the OGb was fathered by a Cousland then,no matter at how "weird" the mother or the grandmother

(Flemeth of course not Eleanor) are or at how evil the soul of the archdemon could have been,the child cannot be a Mordred 2.0 because is a Cousland,a family without black sheeps.

 

 

We don't actually know that, you know.  We only know that all the slaughtered Couslands were apparently nice people.  

[MisterJB]

Don't hate us just because we are better than you.

 

 

 (I'm dead serious. Once the Warden Cousland confronts Howe near the end, all he really admits was that he was jealous of Bryce's wealth, power, and popularity.)

Yes, because the point of that scene was to prove to Howe how he is nothing compared with Cousland.

He kills the entire Cousland family but one, leaves him/her as one of the two only surviving ones of a dying order, puts a price on his/her head, etc. Meanwhile, he has become the Arl of Denerim, Teyrn of Highever and counselor to the Regent.

And yet, in the end, the Cousland Warden will claw his/her way back to the top, with five armies at his/her back, the bastard prince on his/her side and with enough authority to call for a Landsmeet and enough skill to be standing in front of him in his fortress, ready to kill him.

[Tidus]

Howe's failure in killing all of the Couslands was formed by Duncan..

 

Had Duncan not been there Pup would have died with his family instead of escaping with Duncan. The Cousland story line is based on Pup taking revenge on Howe for the death of his family. Let us not forget that. The blight  wasn't in his/her forethoughts. If one looks carefully at some of his/her possible replies to King Cailan and later  when Cousland  is talking to Wynne there is another hint of that.

 

 

BTW. My Cousland had to be conscripted.. He/She never leaves willingly of course in my past games I usually  end my Cousland game shortly after the fade..My current Cousland game is now at the second battle of Redcliff. I will see this one through to the end.

[TonyB]

As soon as the pompous twit calls my female noble 'pup' I assume I'm adopted, am happy Howe skewers him and complete the game with my bard gf without giving a toss about revenge... 

[Tidus]

TonyB,Yeah.. Seems odd he calls his daughter "pup"..  She doesn't look like a puppy to me so,it kinda hurts me since I took time to create a nice looking daughter for him..

[DebatableBubble]

...Well. Leave it to a shem not to know which alienages are better. I have some re-reading to do now.

Ugh. Don't demean yourself by using that disgusting word.

[vbibbi]

Don't forget that Fergus looks to be the most likely successor to the Ferelden throne. No world state indicates that Alistair or Anora has had children, so the Landsmeet is probably going to choose the next king. And Fergus is the most logical choice.

 

TBH the HN is my second least favorite origin, after the DC. It seems so cliche and basic, and it doesn't really provide much lore specific to Thedas; it could be any generic fantasy setting with feudalistic nobility. The only things I remember enjoying about it were the snarky brat comments we could make in the origin, and the option to sleep with either the elf servant or the male noble, regardless of gender.

[MerAnne]

Actually the Highover alienage is supposed to nicer than the other Ferelden Alienages to according in game lore from what I remember, of course nicer likely doesn't mean much when it comes to such place given the nature of such places though apparently even the worse Ferelden Alienages are better than the Orleisian alienages.

Do you happen to remember the source for the Highover Alienage being 'nicer'?

 

The reason that I'm interested involves a future (far FAR future) mod.  I can find references to the Orlesian Alienages being horrible and I can find one comment about the Denerim Alienage being nicer than the Highever Alienage (note - that was BEFORE the wedding party gets kidnapped, some murdered, and some raped).  But I can't really find anything specific about the Highever Alienage.

 

 

 

To keep this on topic.  The HN is one of my less favorite as well.  There isn't anything that I actively dislike about it, but there also isn't anything that really makes me like it either.  I didn't find that there was a "mary sue" complex because I didn't think that the perfections of the Couslands were discussed that much.  They didn't exactly walk around saying 'we are perfect'.

[Tidus]

Shemlen = Elvish for "Quick Children" or Humans..

 

Shem= Slang for humans used by the City Elves..

 

What's so disgusting about that word?

[Illegitimus]

Shemlen = Elvish for "Quick Children" or Humans..

 

Shem= Slang for humans used by the City Elves..

 

What's so disgusting about that word?

 

And a certain other word I'm sure would be censored by the software, etymologically only means the colour "black".  In context shem is a racial slur implying at first that we don't live long enough to become adults and that we are carriers of the disease of mortality.  But since we're humans by using it we own it.  It becomes humorous self-deprecation.  

[MisterJB]

I remember the elf in the Magi Origin will tell you a little about his life in Highever if you're playing an elf.

[RoseLawliet]

As soon as the pompous twit calls my female noble 'pup' I assume I'm adopted, am happy Howe skewers him and complete the game with my bard gf without giving a toss about revenge... 

 

...it's an affectionate nickname. Some parents do that. It was one of the things that made me personally feel that this was a family who cared about each other.

 

 

And a certain other word I'm sure would be censored by the software, etymologically only means the colour "black".  In context shem is a racial slur implying at first that we don't live long enough to become adults and that we are carriers of the disease of mortality.  But since we're humans by using it we own it.  It becomes humorous self-deprecation.  

 

Hey, they can call me "shem" all they want. Our lifespans are about the same, so... stealth insult to themselves.

[Tidus]

It was the Shems that ended the Elves long life and uthenera. Jealously I suppose.

 

Humans don't like being called a Shem but, they call the city Elves knife ears.

 

Maybe Sten and Shale was right?

[Cobra's_back]

It was the Shems that ended the Elves long life and uthenera. Jealously I suppose.

 

Humans don't like being called a Shem but, they call the city Elves knife ears.

 

Maybe Sten and Shale was right?

 

I think the Dalish call City Elves knife ears according to the Masked Empire.

[Tidus]

Cobra's_back, The Dalish calls them "flat ears" and believes they're no better then the humans they serve but, will welcome them to the clan if they wish to join. There is one such elf in the Dalish warden camp at the beginning of the story and again in Lanaya's camp when you return to do Wynne's quest.

 

Pup Cousland can spend a night with Iona (Lady Landra's  elven lady in waiting) at the beginning of his story if that story line is followed..

[Aren]

Don't hate us just because we are better than you.

 

 

Yes, because the point of that scene was to prove to Howe how he is nothing compared with Cousland.

He kills the entire Cousland family but one, leaves him/her as one of the two only surviving ones of a dying order, puts a price on his/her head, etc. Meanwhile, he has become the Arl of Denerim, Teyrn of Highever and counselor to the Regent.

And yet, in the end, the Cousland Warden will claw his/her way back to the top, with five armies at his/her back, the bastard prince on his/her side and with enough authority to call for a Landsmeet and enough skill to be standing in front of him in his fortress, ready to kill him.

Not to boil down the enthusiasm but this is completely untrue if the player decided to pick another origin,young Cousland died alongside the others and Howe pretty much succeeded in defeat the whole family aside from Fergus.

THus prove that without the player soul young Cousland is pretty much dead.