Dai,In the three DA books I've read so far there's been several Elven Grey Wardens including one that search for and found Griffon eggs. I hope in one of the future DA games we get to fly and fight on Griffons.
I don't think the Elves is as bad as the humans in the DA game series.
Dai,In the three DA books I've read so far there's been several Elven Grey Wardens including one that search for and found Griffon eggs. I hope in one of the future DA games we get to fly and fight on Griffons.
I don't think the Elves is as bad as the humans in the DA game series.
They are equally noble and equally bad. That's the whole damn point. Elven fanboyism does not change this.
Your father at least thinks it's unlikely you'll make it out alive. The fortress is after all still surrounded by the bulk of Howe's army. The story just skips past you and Duncan making your way past them since that would be far more Duncan than you.
What Bryce said is irrelevant,if the character is under the player control there is no need of him,since the noble proved to be able to kill al those guards with nothing more than a dog and Eleanor help,so there is no need of Duncan,especially because he cannot know the castle better than young Cousland.
Right. You're comparing good elves to bad humans, and bad elves to worse humans. On average, humans and elves are equal in terms of moral action. I mean elves are more traditional when it comes to sexuality, which gives them the moral edge, but leaving that aside in terms of how the two races interact with each other, they are equally good and equally bad.
What Bryce said is irrelevant,if the character is under the player control there is no need of him,since the noble proved to be able to kill al those guards with nothing more than a dog and Eleanor help,so there is no need of Duncan,especially because he cannot know the castle better than young Cousland.
a dog, Eleanor, and all the soldiers still alive in the castle. Do you seriously think that you could defeat two or three dozen Howe soldiers in a single fight with only your dog? Knowing the castle is irrelevant. When Duncan joins you are at the exit. First you'd have to sneak past Howe's main force, probably over a thousand men surrounding the castle. Once you do that you have make your way south, shaking pursuers who will be tracking you with mabari and horses. Duncan's something like a 20th level Rogue who is going to be able to remotely sense enemies before they get into eye shot. Without him you are going to die. I'm not kidding when I say that the reason why that is skipped over is because it is Duncan, not the player character who would have been the protagonist in an escort mission for a comparatively helpless temporary companion.
I think Aren's point was that it's possible for just the human noble, Eleanor, and Dog to defeat all enemies who stood in their way, aside from maybe those in the main hall where Ser Gilmore and some guards were.
I imagine the secret passage was something like Redcliffe's, where it led away from the castle. I doubt it was just a secret exit built into the side of the castle itself. It must have exited some distance away from the walls. From there it would just be a stealth mission.
Or if they had to fight their way through troops, it would just be a matter of spotting the weakest point in the line and surprising them. If we are including Highever soldiers in this, then the escape becomes even more likely.
Also, I think Duncan was a warrior. His shield in Denerim's vault pretty much proves this.
I think Aren's point was that it's possible for just the human noble, Eleanor, and Dog to defeat all enemies who stood in their way, aside from maybe those in the main hall where Ser Gilmore and some guards were.
I imagine the secret passage was something like Redcliffe's, where it led away from the castle. I doubt it was just a secret exit built into the side of the castle itself. It must have exited some distance away from the walls. From there it would just be a stealth mission.
Or if they had to fight their way through troops, it would just be a matter of spotting the weakest point in the line and surprising them. If we are including Highever soldiers in this, then the escape becomes even more likely.
Also, I think Duncan was a warrior. His shield in Denerim's vault pretty much proves this.
A shield he never carried much less used while he was killing ogres with two Crow daggers. Given his origin as a character who broke into a Grey Warden's room in order to rob it and ended up killing the Warden, I'm sticking with calling him a two-weapon rogue wearing medium armor.
Illegitimus,I agree..Duncan was a 2 weapon rouge and that can be proved several times and his dagger and sword can be recovered when the player returns to Ostagar. I equip my rogue with these weapons and add silverite enchantments.
As far as Eleanor and dog holding off a army one must remember Howe had his army not 2-3 dozen men and they will never hold off a army -that only happens in Hollywood movies like Rambo..
BTW. 2-3 dozen men is equal to a small platoon or patrol not a army and still a human and a dog would not hold them..
Duncan strikes me more as having been a dual wielding warrior, rather than rogue.
He's definitely more roguish in the books. However, I think of him more as a "real person", who can use multiple styles instead of our limited class-based characters.
In 'The Calling' Duncan is portrayed as a rogue, a petty thief and murderer that favors two daggers and can also use a bow or crossbow.. In DA:O he carries a sword and dagger.
I find once I start reading a DA book its hard to put the fool thing down. 
A shield he never carried much less used while he was killing ogres with two Crow daggers. Given his origin as a character who broke into a Grey Warden's room in order to rob it and ended up killing the Warden, I'm sticking with calling him a two-weapon rogue wearing medium armor.
Never carried? That's a bold statement. Alistair seems to think he did. Also, Duncan didn't kill with Crow daggers. RtO shows that these weapons were his sword and dagger. So a warrior can't break into a room to steal and end up killing a Grey Warden? Also, my warrior was dual weapon and wore medium armor. So what?
Illegitimus,I agree..Duncan was a 2 weapon rouge and that can be proved several times and his dagger and sword can be recovered when the player returns to Ostagar. I equip my rogue with these weapons and add silverite enchantments.
As far as Eleanor and dog holding off a army one must remember Howe had his army not 2-3 dozen men and they will never hold off a army -that only happens in Hollywood movies like Rambo..
BTW. 2-3 dozen men is equal to a small platoon or patrol not a army and still a human and a dog would not hold them..
My warrior can equip those weapons too. So that disproves your argument.
No one said the Cousland, Eleanor, and Dog could hold off Howe's entire army. The point was that this is the minimum to get through all of Howe soldiers that made it into the castle, which is a lot. Now consider the fact that the Cousland can recruit the servant, and about two or three guards. Even if Eleanor stays behind, the Cousland, Dog, the servant, and the 1-3 guards could use the secret exit to get out and cut down the weakest of those surrounding the castle. All they would need to do is find a weak point in the line and punch through in order to escape.
In 'The Calling' Duncan is portrayed as a rogue, a petty thief and murderer that favors two daggers and can also use a bow or crossbow.. In DA:O he carries a sword and dagger.
I find once I start reading a DA book its hard to put the fool thing down.
My warrior prefers dual weapons, can also use a bow or crossbow, and it's possible for him to develop the stealing skill (though he doesn't). Also, don't crossbows require a lot of strength? Don't most rogues fail that requirement?
Another thing, wasn't Duncan's Fade representation a warrior?
Never carried? That's a bold statement. Alistair seems to think he did. Also, Duncan didn't kill with Crow daggers. RtO shows that these weapons were his sword and dagger. So a warrior can't break into a room to steal and end up killing a Grey Warden?
He never carried it on-screen. And while I wouldn't say that a warrior couldn't break into a room and end up killing a Grey Warden, he'd be pretty stupid to try without any stealth or lockpicking ability. And while yes in theory it could be possible for Cousland to escape without Duncan's help Bryce didn't seem to think it was likely and it was far from guaranteed...even assuming that Cousland even tries to escape instead of just lurking around and hoping for an opening to kill Howe. Note that you don't get to hand Cousland resources he didn't have. The soldiers weren't there. The servant had apparently made his own escape. Without Duncan it was just Cousland and his dog, who in order to survive have to sneak past the main body of Howe's army and then shake off any trackers. And any army with as many dogs as a Ferelden force is going to be very, very good at tracking.
Duncan carried lock picks and in 'The Calling' he broke into a room and locker while he was at the Tower of Magi..
Dai,As I mention several times I use three rogues and a mage after Zevran joins and they are fairly strong so,I guess it amounts to the way one builds his rogues. All three are equipped with a strong sword and strong dagger since I found this was the best weapons for them and their secondary weapon is strong bows with ice or fire arrows.. My rogue takes out any mages while Leliana,Zevran and Morrigan fights as they will. I only use Alistair until Zevran joins. Don't know why I bother releasing Sten since he stays in camp until the Anvil quest in the deep roads and the battle of Denrim but, he's never in my AD attack group.
Btw. Finding a weak spot in the enemy lines in order to escape can be a costly mistake-unless its a Hollywood flick where the enemy doesn't fight all that well.
a dog, Eleanor, and all the soldiers still alive in the castle. Do you seriously think that you could defeat two or three dozen Howe soldiers in a single fight with only your dog? Knowing the castle is irrelevant. When Duncan joins you are at the exit. First you'd have to sneak past Howe's main force, probably over a thousand men surrounding the castle. Once you do that you have make your way south, shaking pursuers who will be tracking you with mabari and horses. Duncan's something like a 20th level Rogue who is going to be able to remotely sense enemies before they get into eye shot. Without him you are going to die. I'm not kidding when I say that the reason why that is skipped over is because it is Duncan, not the player character who would have been the protagonist in an escort mission for a comparatively helpless temporary companion.
Aren,You are correct.. The Coulsands are wiped out in the none noble game.
I agree Duncan poison young Cousland without any information about the joining and its aftereffects and I will add he was not ready for any battle since IMHO he would still be in shock of losing his family and I have no doubt his mind is more on finding his/her brother and getting revenge on Howe. This doesn't make a stable fighter for fighting Darkspawn-even some of the reply choices to King Cailan proves that.
All of my wardens are not happy to be a Grey since they was forced into the Greys by Duncan. My city elf would rather find the Dalish but,is tricked by Duncan when he conscripts them into the Greys. Even the Dalish elf is back stab by his keeper when she acknowledges Duncan's conscription.
In short its like being drafted into the Army against your will and 6 months later finding yourself in a hot LZ in a place you don't wanna be in the first place and that's by my personal experience.
I don't agree with anything that you said as it doesn't make sense from A to Z.Bryce reason to sell the youngest of the family to Duncan was not a deal made to allow the noble to escape from the castle but more likely to offer protection later by using the ranks of the Grey wardens.At that point Duncan help to escape is useless as both dog and the future Warden and Eleanor are perfectly capable to escape and this was proved by the countless soldiers that they killed before to reach the passage of whom only the Cousland family know the secret,without the young noble it is Duncan who would have died in the castle,because he didn't' know the existence of the secret passage
If he didn't know the existence of the servant's entrance...why did he go there? But sure. The few scattered soldiers that the Warden, Dog and Eleanor beat are definitely proof that he could defeat Howe's entire army outside.
One thing we do know.. Duncan wasn't at the castle during the betrayal and murder of the Couslands since in none Nobel games he's either sneaking around the Dalish camp,Orzammar or the Denerim Alienage.
If he didn't know the existence of the servant's entrance...why did he go there? But sure. The few scattered soldiers that the Warden, Dog and Eleanor beat are definitely proof that he could defeat Howe's entire army outside.
Bryce told to him
Olnorton,Seems the book,the game and now the guide can't agree on what Duncan was. In 'The Calling' he carried and used two daggers and filled the roll as a rogue since he was highly skilled in picking locks.. In DA:O he carried a sword and dagger.
Olnorton,Seems the book,the game and now the guide can't agree on what Duncan was. In 'The Calling' he carried and used two daggers and filled the roll as a rogue since he was highly skilled in picking locks.. In DA:O he carried a sword and dagger.
He never carried it on-screen. And while I wouldn't say that a warrior couldn't break into a room and end up killing a Grey Warden, he'd be pretty stupid to try without any stealth or lockpicking ability. And while yes in theory it could be possible for Cousland to escape without Duncan's help Bryce didn't seem to think it was likely and it was far from guaranteed...even assuming that Cousland even tries to escape instead of just lurking around and hoping for an opening to kill Howe. Note that you don't get to hand Cousland resources he didn't have. The soldiers weren't there. The servant had apparently made his own escape. Without Duncan it was just Cousland and his dog, who in order to survive have to sneak past the main body of Howe's army and then shake off any trackers. And any army with as many dogs as a Ferelden force is going to be very, very good at tracking.
Well in all fairness, Duncan was pretty stupid.
Bryce merely thought they had a better chance to escape with Duncan than without him.
The soldiers weren't in the cut-scene. So what? They made it to the larder, so they could have made it out as well.
As a mabari owner, the Cousland would know how to throw off any pursuing hounds.
Duncan carried lock picks and in 'The Calling' he broke into a room and locker while he was at the Tower of Magi..
Dai,As I mention several times I use three rogues and a mage after Zevran joins and they are fairly strong so,I guess it amounts to the way one builds his rogues. All three are equipped with a strong sword and strong dagger since I found this was the best weapons for them and their secondary weapon is strong bows with ice or fire arrows.. My rogue takes out any mages while Leliana,Zevran and Morrigan fights as they will. I only use Alistair until Zevran joins. Don't know why I bother releasing Sten since he stays in camp until the Anvil quest in the deep roads and the battle of Denrim but, he's never in my AD attack group.
Btw. Finding a weak spot in the enemy lines in order to escape can be a costly mistake-unless its a Hollywood flick where the enemy doesn't fight all that well.
Yeah but in a book it's possible to know how to pick locks without being a rogue. Saying a warrior with high dexterity can't pick locks because he isn't a rogue is the same as saying a rogue can't shout taunts at enemies because he isn't a warrior.
That's fine that you build your rogues that way, but my point is that warriors can be built that way too. So those weapons are not exclusive to rogues, nor are they necessarily geared toward rogues.
It's the only option they have if the castle is surrounded. They either snuck past or they punched a hole. The fact you gain experience from leaving Highever seems to indicate that fights were fought and won.
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