21 réponses à ce sujet

[CYRAX470]

And I don't mean the Citadel.

The Catalyst says it controls the Reapers, now we don't know exactly how. Perhaps they're just following an old set of programs and the Catalyst watches. Or if it's a more active process with the Catalyst controlling them like a game of chess. Moving them into strategic positions.

But let's say the Catalyst has more direct control (R.I.P). Do you think it's possible that it can move its programming into a Reaper? I'm mainly curious about this because I wonder why the Catalyst just didn't destroy the Citadel.

After the Reapers, who are controlled by the Catalyst, find out that we know the Crucible needs the Citadel, they move it behind their lines to protect it.

But why not just move itself to a Reaper, destroy the Citadel, jump out of the Sol system with a group of other Reapers, and wait for the inevitable? Destroying the Citadel would undoubtedly be a major blow to the Sword Fleet. They would have all their forces gathered at one spot, and now their mega super weapon is totally useless. Game over. Victory would be beyond assured, and everyone would likely split off and just wait to be finished.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Who knows. The Catalyst operates behind some combination of arbitrary, unknown, and baffling set of rules.

[Valmar]

If we had answers to this perhaps the ending wouldn't had been so ill-received.

 

 

If I had to guess I'd say it cannot move itself. Or else it would have. The problem is this is based off, well, sensible logic. So. This may be completely irrelevant to the star brat. Why did it even summon Shepard up? Why even give him the choices? Why not just let him die down there? If it is his home and a part of him then why did they need Saren to activate the relay or the keepers? Why do they even need to take over the citadel with force, why can't he just shut it down himself. Why do they need to read the citadel files, shouldn't he know everything put on the computers since he is the citadel OS?

 

We could sit here asking questions like this for literally hours. Its a wasted effort though. The ending was rushed and not well thought-out. We'd just be making excuses, not revelations.

[fraggle]

I tend towards it cannot move. I assume its core is safely built into the Citadel somewhere to protect it and that it controls from there.

How it controls the Reapes from there? Not sure, but could be some kind of signal, just like the one that would usually be sent to the Keepers to open the relay. Or like you say, basic programming stuff. I've also heard about a theory where there's a part of the AI in each Reaper, which is also a pretty cool idea.

I'm not even sure if the Catalyst is the one lifting Shepard up on the platform. It would make sense, but then again not, because it actually doesn't want Shepard there, except when Synthesis is available. And even then it cannot be 100% sure Shepard's gonna pick this option. But I stopped worrying about that

 

For me the Catalyst is very much in an observer role. He was built for that, to oversee relations, collect data, find a solution etc.

Anyway, yeah, we have no clear answers, and it's a lot of speculation, but it can be fun to think about it.

[themikefest]

If the catalyst is part of the Citadel, then what was it a part of before the relays and Citadel were built? It did direct the reapers to build the relays. Too bad there wasn't an option to have Shepard tell Hackett to destroy the Citadel. Would it cause the reapers to stop? Don't know. 

 

If Shepard was given the opportunity to ask Leviathan if it knew what the catalyst is, Leviathan may of told Shepard that destroying the Citadel might stop the reapers. I don't know.  Or Levaithan may not know what the catalyst is since it calls the thing intelligence

[Iakus]

If the catalyst is part of the Citadel, then what was it a part of before the relays and Citadel were built? It did direct the reapers to build the relays. Too bad there wasn't an option to have Shepard tell Hackett to destroy the Citadel. Would it cause the reapers to stop? Don't know. 

 

 

Too conventional 

[themikefest]

Too conventional 

I would have Shepard get in the drivers seat and fly the thing into the sun. Barla Von did say the citadel has engines when talking with him in ME1. Of course I doubt the folks on the citadel would like that.

[kalikilic]

And I don't mean the Citadel.

The Catalyst says it controls the Reapers, now we don't know exactly how. Perhaps they're just following an old set of programs and the Catalyst watches. Or if it's a more active process with the Catalyst controlling them like a game of chess. Moving them into strategic positions.

But let's say the Catalyst has more direct control (R.I.P). Do you think it's possible that it can move its programming into a Reaper? I'm mainly curious about this because I wonder why the Catalyst just didn't destroy the Citadel.

After the Reapers, who are controlled by the Catalyst, find out that we know the Crucible needs the Citadel, they move it behind their lines to protect it.

But why not just move itself to a Reaper, destroy the Citadel, jump out of the Sol system with a group of other Reapers, and wait for the inevitable? Destroying the Citadel would undoubtedly be a major blow to the Sword Fleet. They would have all their forces gathered at one spot, and now their mega super weapon is totally useless. Game over. Victory would be beyond assured, and everyone would likely split off and just wait to be finished.

the catalyst extends beyond the narrative cohesion of the game. it cant be discussed; its purpose, its origins, its meaning cannot be defined logically and in no way can it ever become a true born and bred plot point of the game. i imagine both mark meer and jennifer hale had a field day with the recordings in that conversation. just saying.

 

the catalyst is like taking a blank A4 sheet, and a fountain pen and dropping one big drop of ink onto the page. ta-da! anyone can create the catalyst.

 

but points for trying though. some of us have nothing to do until andromeda comes out.

[CYRAX470]

Ya know what, forget Destroying the Citadel. Destroy the freaking conduit, don't give Hammer squad a way in. No conduit, no back way into the Citadel. Then they have to go through the Reaper fleet, which was already decimating Sword fleet.

God the Reapers really were inept.

[Valmar]

I don't see what good could come from destroying the conduit in the existing narrative.

 

That being said I do find the conduit from a narrative perspective to be poorly thought out in general. We already had a backdoor on the citadel - Illos. It was kinda a big deal in the first game. Shame we couldn't had revisited it to use it again. The nostalgia. This time we could have the geth HELPING us rather than fighting against us.

 

Though I'm sure some would find it cheap to reuse it rather than come up with something new. Plus I'm sure there are things you could nitpick about that approach from a narrative perspective aswell. Can't satisfy everyone.

[CYRAX470]

If Harbinger destroyed the conduit, then everyone would have been pretty much toast. It's by taking those few steps that set things in motion. Destroy the conduit, none of that happens.

[themikefest]

If the reapers were to of shutoff the beam during the beam run, the only other way to try to get on the Citadel is to get back to Ilos and figure out a way to reuse the conduit. Maybe get to Ilos and encounter Cerberus troops who were not on Chronos and end up fighting them to prevent Shepard to get on the Citadel to interfere with TIM's plans. Once on Citadel, Shepard sees fighting between C-Sec, Cerberus and the uglies. Doing it this way could include the squadmates from ME2.

 

Another way to get on the Citadel, if the beam is shutoff, is try to get a hold of someone on the Citadel to open the arms. I have no idea if anyone attempted to get hold of anyone on the Citadel before heading to Earth or not.

[Scourge king]

well doesnt the citadel got that docking ring thing in the back (the side that i'm pretty sure it cant close?) why couldnt they just take the normandy to that open up the arms dock the crucible and activate it?

[Valmar]

If Harbinger destroyed the conduit, then everyone would have been pretty much toast. It's by taking those few steps that set things in motion. Destroy the conduit, none of that happens.

 

I misunderstood your argument. Within the context of others talking about flying the citadel into the sun or otherwise destroying it to defeat the reapers I was thinking you were arguing Shepard/Alliance should destroy the conduit instead (mainly due to the "forget destroying the citadel" line).

 

What I meant was that I don't see any benefit to our side to destroy the conduit. From the reaper's perspective it would had been beneficial to shut it down when they saw us coming for it. Or perhaps not activate the elevator that brings Shepard to the off switch. Or maybe don't wake him up to make him choose, after explaining what to do and how to do it. It goes on and on. Lol.

[Cheviot]

Well the Catalyst is the proto-Reaper, and the Citadel it's body.  I think it's a similar situation to the one EDI is in; it might be able to assume direct control of drone bodies, but if the place where it's consciousness resides (the Citadel) is destroyed, it no longer functions.

[Dantriges]

My personal headcanon is that you can´t simply flip a switch to shut down the beam and that it actually takes some time to do it properly and safely, but I admit there is nothing in the game to support that.

well doesnt the citadel got that docking ring thing in the back (the side that i'm pretty sure it cant close?) why couldnt they just take the normandy to that open up the arms dock the crucible and activate it?

 
It can close the aft area, the Crucible is actualy docking there. The big plates which open up in the docking sequence are the ones closing off the area "behind" the docking ring.

[Valmar]

Well the Catalyst is the proto-Reaper, and the Citadel it's body.  I think it's a similar situation to the one EDI is in; it might be able to assume direct control of drone bodies, but if the place where it's consciousness resides (the Citadel) is destroyed, it no longer functions.

 

The catalyst existed before the Citadel though. It built the citadel. So what was it before it built its body? Perhaps it built the entire station around itself to act as a protective shell since its like one of the most indestructible structures ever built. Or so they claim.

[Cheviot]

The catalyst existed before the Citadel though. It built the citadel. So what was it before it built its body? Perhaps it built the entire station around itself to act as a protective shell since its like one of the most indestructible structures ever built. Or so they claim.

I'm thought the implication was that the Citadel was always it's body, and it had originally been built as a neutral (and well-protected) meeting ground for synthetics and organics to negoiate, with the Catalyst as mediator.  It was, after all, designed to be the catalyst for peace.  This would explain where it got some of it's ideas for the Reaper Cycles (i.e. making sure that the majority of the galaxy's leadership was in one place where they could be easily liquidated).

[Valmar]

Aren't we told multiple times that the reapers built the citadel? It was all part of their trap/plan to speed up the time between cycles.

 

I believe it was first Sovereign who said they build the citadel and mass relays. The Citadel itself is also a giant mass relay as well as the control hub for all relays.

 

I do get where you're coming from though.

[AlanC9]

Aren't we told multiple times that the reapers built the citadel? It was all part of their trap/plan to speed up the time between cycles.
 

Are we told that by anyone who isn't guessing?

[Iakus]

Are we told that by anyone who isn't guessing?

Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays.  Our technology.  By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire.  We impose order on the chaos of organic life.  You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

 

Leviathan: The intelligence has one purpose: preservation of life.  That purpose has not been fulfilled.  It directed the Reapers to create the mass relays, to speed the time between cycles for greatest efficiency.  The galaxy itself became an experiment.  Evolution its tool.

[fhs33721]

If the catalyst is part of the Citadel, then what was it a part of before the relays and Citadel were built? It did direct the reapers to build the relays. Too bad there wasn't an option to have Shepard tell Hackett to destroy the Citadel. Would it cause the reapers to stop? Don't know. 

Doesn't it take days (or at least hours) of concentrated fire to harm the citadel? I somehow doubt Hackett has enough ships left to pull that off after the point where Shepard first talks to the cataclyst.