503 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashagar]

No the maker would solve the issue by providing the tools needed and the possibility to stop someone like Solas, Corypheus and others if needed not by snapping his fingers. Remember one of the Makers major things aside from being the creator deity is free will of his creations so he would make it possible for people to have the ability choose and act on their free will on the matter, something Solas's plan would deny. The Maker would likely only directly intervene if Solas's plan was unstoppable and would utterly destroy creation.

[Boost32]

@Medhia_Nox
Let's see:
 
Megalomania definition, Psychiatry. a symptom of mental illness marked by delusions of greatness, wealth, etc.
Solas was regarded as a god by others, he wanted to be regarded as a man who does not throw orders, but gives advices... Which does not means that he was something insignificant, he took responsibility for great many things, hence justified pride.

His Megalomania is not that he thinks he is a god, is that he is the only one v who can save the elves (Messiah Syndrome is a kind of Megalomania).

[Karmel]

His Megalomania is not that he thinks he is a god, is that he is the only one v who can save the elves (Messiah Syndrome is a kind of Megalomania).

 

That depends on whether the term also fits into someone who thinks that only he can save the current Thedas?

 

   

[Aren]

in all honesty,i'm not denying Solas fault because those were terrible,but also i'm not judging him for his action towards Elvhenan because those are still too unclear and we don't know yet exactly the dynamics of the events that leaded to the creation of the veil and if someone else was involved,because the veil is pretty big to believe that Solas alone did that.

But in DAI most of the time i saw Solas as a gentle,kind and polite soul who helped others when it was the time and never show blind hate towards people due to his powers.

He suffer of a clearly disconnection with the world,but i think that in it's deep core is super redeemable and can be recovered which will be an immense benefit for the world and if i'm wrong then i like to be wrong.

I cannot hate Solas, i will never hate Solas.

[Qun00]

"Dorian: Solas, for what it's worth, I'm sorry.

Dorian: The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it...

Solas: Dorian... hush. Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time."

So why doesn't he follow his own advice and accept that empires rise and fall instead of living in the past?

That depends on whether the term also fits into someone who thinks that only he can save the current Thedas?
 
   

The Inquisitor? That may vary depending on roleplay.

[Aeratus]

"Dorian: Solas, for what it's worth, I'm sorry.

Dorian: The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it...

Solas: Dorian... hush. Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time."

So why doesn't he follow his own advice and accept that empires rise and fall instead of living in the past?

 

Because there is a difference between the people and the political institution ruling the people. An empire is a political institution, which includes its rulers (the Evanuris). Solas isn't trying to bring back the political institution, but is trying to bring back the people.

[Karmel]

"Dorian: Solas, for what it's worth, I'm sorry.

Dorian: The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it...

Solas: Dorian... hush. Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time."

So why doesn't he follow his own advice and accept that empires rise and fall instead of living in the past?


The Inquisitor? That may vary depending on roleplay.

 

Solas is not trying to restore the old Elvhenan empire. He was the one who started the rebellion and caused its collapse. He mentions he wants to restore the world of Elves. How? We can only guess, and I do not want to go into this.

 

He feels obliged to return to the world, what he took away, creating something unnatural - the Veil. He feels responsible for the limitations resulting from that fact, and for the fact that modern people do not even know what they had lost. He also wants to take care about the spirits, most likely nobody else will care about them, because nobody else knows them as he do. The rest of his motives we can discuss, when we get another game.

 

This type of Inquisitor, who thinks that only he can save the current Thedas, of course...   

[Qun00]

"World of the elves" sounds like a little more than just the people. It sounds like the old elvhenan empire but under new rule. Whether Solas would take the position, however, remains to be seen.

"World of the elves" sounds like a little more than just the people. Most likely the old elvhenan empire but under new rule. Whether Solas would take the position, however, remains to be seen.

[CardButton]

"World of the elves" sounds like a little more than just the people. Most likely the old elvhenan empire but under new rule. Whether Solas would take the position, however, remains to be seen.

True this one interpretation, that Solas like Cory wishes to bring back the Elvhen supremacy and I guess we will have to wait to see if it is the truth.

 

Personally though I saw the use of "World of the Elves" as a literal one.  Solas (like Abelas) likely does not see the current Elven population of Thedas as his people, he reserves that for the Ancient Elves.  Therefore their world would be the one where the Veil didn't exist and the Fade and Thedas were united and this is my assumption as to what Solas wishes to recreate.  Not an empire, not necessarily Elven dominance (though this may be a byproduct), not going back to a previous era, but the straight up re-creation of the environment of the Ancient Elvhen ... which may or may not be completely inhospitable for the denizens of Modern Thedas.  

 

Though again this is based on my idea that his reason for doing so is that he feels it necessary in order to save the remaining populations of Ancient Elvhen, which (thanks to the Temple of Mythal and artificial dimensions like the Shattered Library and The Crossroads) I'm not so sure are quite as extinct as we once thought. 

[Boost32]

That depends on whether the term also fits into someone who thinks that only he can save the current Thedas?
 
   

Yes it does, but who are you talking about?

[Karmel]

If Solas tried to "destroy" civilizations as accurately and efficiently as some fear, then the current elven population should not exist at all. Meanwhile, it passed a few thousand years (like 4k?), and we encounter on Abelas and his team, Leliana (when she's looking for Solas) also reported by another group of Elvhen. And do not forget about the revival during Halamshiral period, when the elves were once again quite significant force (irrelevant now, but indicates that they were not doomed to extinction).

Combined with a mysterious line:

"Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?"

which may relate to Evanuris, or to something completely different, maybe we should prepare ourselves for some surprises. 

[Former_Fiend]

Mind you I hate Cole more than I hate Solas, so using Cole to defend him isn't a compelling strategy to me.

[Karmel]

Mind you I hate Cole more than I hate Solas, so using Cole to defend him isn't a compelling strategy to me.

 

I assume you are referring to my post ... So:

1. Mand you I did not write this to you personally, so I do not know what importance is the fact that YOU do not like Cole ...

2. This quote was not used to defend Solas, because it is not about him. The same goes for the rest my comment. I know that I played a lawyer too often these days, but do not assume that you know the contents of the book, if you looked at the author's name.

[In Exile]

"Dorian: Solas, for what it's worth, I'm sorry.

Dorian: The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it...

Solas: Dorian... hush. Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time."

So why doesn't he follow his own advice and accept that empires rise and fall instead of living in the past?


The Inquisitor? That may vary depending on roleplay.

 

It's not about empires. It's about genocide. Solas struggles not with the downfall of his society (which, remember, was partly his goal to begin with, because he was opposed to the dominant social order of the day) but with the fact that his plan to free the elves, the Veil, ended up essentially erasing them from existence.

 

The "elves" that exist following the Veil are fundamentally different beings from the elves that existed before. Solas stole away - and maybe even destroyed - something fundamental about his people and the world. That's what he struggles with, and what he wants to change back. 

[Medhia_Nox]

It's not about empires. It's about genocide. Solas struggles not with the downfall of his society (which, remember, was partly his goal to begin with, because he was opposed to the dominant social order of the day) but with the fact that his plan to free the elves, the Veil, ended up essentially erasing them from existence.

 

The "elves" that exist following the Veil are fundamentally different beings from the elves that existed before. Solas stole away - and maybe even destroyed - something fundamental about his people and the world. That's what he struggles with, and what he wants to change back. 

I always fix my genocidal accidents with purposeful genocidal acts.  This way, I know I meant it - and that'll make me feel better.

 

@Karmel:  So, it's cool if he destroys Tevinter, Orlais, Rivain, Par Volen, Ferelden, Nevarra, the Anderfels, the Free Marches, Orzamaar and Kal Sharok... so long as he just doesn't kill everyone?  Cause killing everyone is bad... but killing "almost everyone" is just a whoops that can be corrected... am I getting this right?

[kimgoold]

 

If Solas tried to "destroy" civilizations as accurately and efficiently as some fear, then the current elven population should not exist at all. Meanwhile, it passed a few thousand years (like 4k?), and we encounter on Abelas and his team, Leliana (when she's looking for Solas) also reported by another group of Elvhen. And do not forget about the revival during Halamshiral period, when the elves were once again quite significant force (irrelevant now, but indicates that they were not doomed to extinction).

Combined with a mysterious line:

"Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?"

which may relate to Evanuris, or to something completely different, maybe we should prepare ourselves for some surprises. 

 

Please let this be true, we need more mysteries and questions; This world needs more cultures than just humans, qunari, and slaves. Diversity and conflict will expand this world to even greater stories and characters. And remnants of the Ancient Elves would be glorious.

[Aeratus]

 

But in DAI most of the time i saw Solas as a gentle,kind and polite soul who helped others when it was the time and never show blind hate towards people due to his powers.

He suffer of a clearly disconnection with the world,but i think that in it's deep core is super redeemable and can be recovered which will be an immense benefit for the world and if i'm wrong then i like to be wrong.

I cannot hate Solas, i will never hate Solas.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts. Well said.

 

Also, he is only disconnected with the world because it is one he is not familiar with. 

 

 

If I told you I was going to kill your family... would you wait till I killed your family to be really upset with me?  I would kinda hope you'd be upset with me for even suggesting this hypothetical.  

 

This is a totally irrelevant analogy. 

 

First, there is a difference between what someone tells me IRL and what an NPC video game character tells my video game character. As suggested in the above post, video games are for entertainment, and permits conflicts that are outside of IRL social norms.

 

Second, to kill my family is a directly personal and directly lethal adversity. What solas is doing is not directly personally adverse, and is not directly lethal.  

 

What Solas is doing is more akin to redeveloping your neighborhood to build a homeless shelter, or taking your farmlands to build a wildlife refuge for endangered species. (This of course isn't a perfect analogy, but far closer than what you have wrote).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Second, to kill my family is a directly personal and directly lethal adversity. What solas is doing is not directly personally adverse, and is not directly lethal.  

How is what Solas doing not personal? If he succeeds, all of your family, friends, and everyone else you know would directly suffer, either by death or if they somehow survive are now living in a world of suffering. 

[Karmel]

@Medhia_Nox

So, it's cool if he destroys Tevinter, Orlais, Rivain, Par Volen, Ferelden, Nevarra, the Anderfels, the Free Marches, Orzamaar and Kal Sharok... so long as he just doesn't kill everyone?  Cause killing everyone is bad... but killing "almost everyone" is just a whoops that can be corrected... am I getting this right?

 

If he destroys them in the same sense in which he "destroyed" his own empire, I do not mind.

 

If at the same time it will make living in Fade spirits will find it easier to stick with their true nature, and people will start to count more with how their actions are affecting the rest of the world ...

 

I will be wholeheartedly on the side of Fen'Harel. 

 

If the going take his army (and his "eyes") on touring from village to village, to visit each city and each forest in order to just kill anything that is not ancient elf ...

 

Then in joy I greet his ignominious defeat. 

 

More clearly I can not... I hope this answer is enough for you, finally.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Aeratus:  When someone tells me they're going to destroy my world - I take that personally.  

 

And he's going to build a homeless shelter on top of the burning remains of my old neighborhood - yeah, not acceptable to me and also personal.

 

He can't be more clear than saying this world will "burn in the raw chaos".  *shrugs*  

 

As for separating video games from real life - when considering moral actions - I do not.  I have no interest in exploring genocide and cataclysms as that exploration provides me neither with entertainment or anything of merit for me to take from the game back into the real world.  

[Karmel]

@Medhia_Nox

You (though, not you alone) seem to be very "personal" person. Worried about what may threaten you, which is inconvenient for you and what you believe. So, you do not really care about those who you do not recognize as "your kind", and as long as it is "raw chaos" for them, you feel good about it.

 

 A little selfish, you admit? And a great tip, why do you see Solas in a way in which you present it to us.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Karmel:  What?  I couldn't care less about "my character" - my character would care about the millions of Thedosians threatened because Solas believes he knows best.  If "I" were the one to confront Solas... I'd sacrifice myself in a second to stop his plan to kill everyone (or, since you seem obsessed with mincing words - destroying modern civilization) - so I'm not sure where you get this "my people" thing.  In real life... I don't have a people.  I don't think in those terms.  And that has almost always translated to my RP characters.  

 

Solas is the "my people" guy.  It is literally ALL he talks about.  

 

You can have your own opinion - but don't mischaracterize me.  Your basing your post off one post which was directly related to the questions of another forumite.  

 

Why do I see Solas in what way?   Do you mean the guy who destroyed the ancient elves?  The guy who gave a magical orb to a darkspawn magister because he was too impatient to wait three years?  The guy who tells you straight to your face - "I am going to destroy modern Thedas for MY PEOPLE?"   I see him that way - because that's the only way he's presented.

 

The rest is just rose-colored delusion driven by the "romance" and meta-gaming because the "redeemers" know Bioware will likely give that option to them because Bioware never tells anyone, ever, that they're wrong for making a choice. 

[Gervaise]

Solas definitely said that if his original plan had worked and Cory had died activating the orb, then Solas would have strolled in, picked up the orb and anchor, entered the Fade, torn down the Veil and as the present world "burned in the raw chaos" he would have restored the world of his time.    There isn't a lot of room for interpretation there.   He also admits that the current population "deserve better" but too bad, the best he will do for them is give them a few years of "peace" before pulling the plug on their existence.  

 

My Lavellan is determined to stop him because Thedas is his home.   Since the Dalish lost their homeland, the entire continent counts as their home because they are nomads.   Whilst he has a pretty low opinion of the ruling class in most countries, he doesn't bear the general population any ill will and he would not wish to see them suffer any more than his own clan.    However, by personalising it to his clan, it makes it less abstract.    There are millions of people out there who will be affected but he doesn't know them.   He does know his clan and also those friends he acquired among the other races during his time as Inquisitor.    He remembers quite clearly a conversation he had with Solas very early on when Solas was arguing why spirits should be considered as full people and treated with respect.   He was happy to concede that point but naturally would feel that Solas should equally apply that rule to the inhabitants of Thedas.     Now it may be that Solas plan will not totally remove them from existence but possibly change them into spirits to inhabit his new world.    Which is all very well but he is changing their nature in much the same way as you change the nature of a spirit if you forcibly drag them from the Fade and bend them to you will.    Not only that but Solas has made himself the sole arbiter of the fate of Thedas; that is appropriating god-like status to himself; something he criticised the evanuris for.   

 

My essential problem with Solas is that I agreed with him on so many issues in the main game; probably the reason he claimed to respect me, but I just do not recognise the person who was my friend with the person who stood there and outlined his plan to me in Trespasser.    If it was something he only came up with since absorbing Mythal then you could blame it on that; but he admits it was always his plan.     So everything he said before seems hypocritical and false; how can I respect him now?   How can I believe he was ever my friend?   It seems to me he was simply trying to justify everything he planned to do in criticising everyone else.   He was deceiving me throughout.    If what he planned to do was really necessary, then please tell me why and I might even agree with him but he doesn't offer me that respect.  He actually says that would be giving me too much information.    Why for goodness sake?

 

I would also point out that he gives three different reasons why he created the Veil in the first place: To shut away the evanuris as punishment for killing mythal; Because he couldn't be sure he could kill them; Because the world would have been destroyed by them if he hadn't imprisoned them.    These reflect three very different motivations behind his actions and only the last one really carries any weight with me.   However, when he changes his story so often about the past, why should I believe him if he gives me a reason for his actions in the future?

[Lulupab]

I think convincing him will be a possibility. He does say "I will treasure the chance to be wrong" when you say to him he doesn't have to destroy the world to bring back his people. I think that pretty much means if there is a way, he will take it.

 

But lets not forget the pure good that will come from his plan. The utter destruction and complete annihilation of the Qun. (not their race, the doctrine).

[Lulupab]

@Medhia_Nox

 

Tell me a single reason current Thedas has more right to exist than Elves and Solas.

 

There is no atrocity the Evanuris has done that modern Thedas hasn't. Those with power abuse the weak. The cold, hard fact of life.

 

As for Bioware honoring opinions, then take my stand and do not take clear sides. Many such people were vastly disappointed in DA:I. You are here because you like Dragon age, just wait and see what the writers have in store. Stopping Solas would make a typical and boring story, but his redemption against a bigger evil or some sort of compromise will make better a story.

 

BTW do not mistaken me admiring Solas as taking his side. He is a brilliantly written character and deserves appreciation. It has nothing to with his plan.