I wonder what Solas would do if Shale were recruited to kick his ass.
Shale: Come here so I can squash your little rat head.
Solas: *turn to stone*
Shale: HAH! The little bald rat tried to turn me to stone.
*squish*
@Karmel: Let me assure you, my familiarity with the English language has nothing to do with my opinions about Solas or anything else. I'm writing in my native language, and it doesn't take all that long to write a few sentences. But let's be honest. I could spend four hours typing out a post, and you would still consider it careless and ill-considered unless it agrees with you. That isn't going to happen, so it makes no difference whether it takes me hours to reply or mere moments.
@Medhia_Nox: Anders was always meant to be a divisive character, and I understand perfectly well why some people dislike him so intensely. Hey, if everybody loved the characters I love, the forums would be boring. It's also important to remember that liking a character - even loving one - does not necessarily make a person blind to their flaws. In fact, the only characters I truly hate are those who have no flaws at all. Whiny and obsessed? Bring it on! Sullen and occasionally violently homicidal? Sign me up! Bland and insipid? I'll pass.
Ironically, the "Blanket Fort" thread is a lot more rational about Solas's character and motives than this thread has been. Most of the people there seem perfectly capable of appreciating Solas's moral complexity without attempting to turn him into some kind of messiah.
You know, the dispute over who has more rights to Thedas elves or humans, reminds me of a very sensitive issue from RL ... I think you can guess about what I write.It is bloody. It's awful. It's never ending Story.
Someone says, "you want to build a shelter for the homeless on the ashes of my estate".Someone answers: "you have built your settlement on our cemetery / our land".I do not want to judge who is right! Moreover, I believe that one is not able to objectively judge!
Pity for you, then. Fortunately, and ironically, objectivity doesn't depend on your opinion.
A claim such as 'you have built a settlement on our cemetary / our land' is objectively quantifiable in two ways: whether something was built on the land in question, and whether it is theirs. These answers may not be popular- they may be disputable- but they are also answerable by whatever code or process of authentication exists in a society.
To put it briefly: YOU choose whether Solas actually try to destroy your world OR if you both work out a compromise. The Dread Wolf remains open to suggestions... For some time (maybe even several years?).Or at least - for me (and I can be really stupid, of course) - BioWare tried to present it in such a way. The only similar case in the world DA is the choice that offers Arishok (the DAII one), so I guess hence so many people find it difficult to believe.
You're just being stupid, then.
(Your words, not mine.)
What you bolded- and thank you for that by the way- is not what is occuring. Solas's machinations to destroy the world are already in motion regardless- it's not a conditional of the choice at the end of Tresspasser. The Inquisitor's option is a reflection of the Inquisitor's intent, not Solas's- if you intend to oppose Solas, he will try to destroy the world, and if you intend to redeem Solas, he will try to destroy the world. He may show some regret, but he still intends to do what he's always intended to do.
This is one of those cases which can be objectively judged. You're simply wrong.
I wonder what Solas would do if Shale were recruited to kick his ass.
Shale: Come here so I can squash your little rat head.
Solas: *turn to stone*
Shale: HAH! The little bald rat tried to turn me to stone.
*squish*
I'm pretty sure that Solas has more than one trick.
I wonder what Solas would do if Shale were recruited to kick his ass.
Shale: Come here so I can squash your little rat head.
Solas: *turn to stone*
Shale: HAH! The little bald rat tried to turn me to stone.
*squish*
You know, I do kinda wish we'd seen Solas react to a golem, now that you mention it.
BioWare does have a talent for creating divisive issues, the kind that make most people say "Well, duh, of course opposition is the only option," but a few will defend to their last breath. It probably went like this:
Writer 1: We haven't started a fan war this installment, have we?
Writer 2: No, and we should do something about that. Any ideas?
Writer 1: Yeah, actually. Let's have Solas tell the protagonist that if his plans succeed, she, her family, and all her friends will die horrible deaths.
Writer 2: Are you serious? Would anybody actually support that?
Writer 1: Watch.
I'm not saying that folks are wrong for holding an opinion one way or another. But I am saying that because the issue is based on visceral, emotional values rather than objective logic, neither side is really going to understand where the other side is coming from. You can't rationalize your way through someone else's emotions.
I don't know. I can understand at least one position of either side: Against Solas stands a set of moral considerations as outlined by Dean above. For Solas stands the idea that the old world is the world in its natural state, the world as it should be, and that Solas is repairing it to that original state.
But then, I'm not emotionally invested in this, neither in the status quo or nor in Solas' old world. The latter holds a certain fascination and romantic appeal, but nothing more than that. The only world I'd argue vehemently against is the qunari vision of a world without magic.
Just like the Elven world did not deserve to die out because of a mistake. It makes you think about the fact that humans are dominating Thedas because of a mistake, not because they earned their place.
The concept of having earned something is irrelevant to history. Who the heck decides that anyway, and by which standards? The use of this concept to delegitimize human domination of Thedas is fallacious.
@Dean_the_YoungOh, you are a very wise person, it is. The UN would have benefited if they hired someone like you. I can not wait to be your biggest fan.
Good to hear. You made a ridiculous claim, and were ridiculed. With any wisdom on your part- and feel free to borrow this one- you'll correct your misconception and move on.
Who knows- maybe next time you'll be able to find a point where I'm claiming a ridiculously self-serving interpretation on canon.
And I absolutely do not get angry for confirmation of my stupidity.
Pro-tip: if you don't want to be hit with a particular rhetorical bat, don't offer said bat while making a factually wrong claim.
Self-depricating humor is best for those who don't mind it, and who don't tie it to something that can be proven wrong. At least you didn't offer to eat your hat or something like that.
What else could I expect for trying to debate with "hatred."
People not pointing out your mistakes? I'd find that patronizingly disrespectful, but that's just me.
Hatred is also a bit self-validating on your part though, don't you think? I can't speak for others, but you're not important enough to stir that sort of emotion with me.
I don't know if this video has been brought up here, but here's something to think about for the people with belief that Solas intends to bring modern elves to glory, or that he's being figurative and "doesn't really mean it." It seems his own words shatter this illusion nicely:
Sandals says that Solas will restore "everyone."
One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see.
Glory for all! A gift from Solas, restorer of the world!
Also, didn't one of the devs say that Solas' words might not mean what you think they meant?
I don't know. I can understand at least one position of either side: Against Solas stands a set of moral considerations as outlined by Dean above. For Solas stands the idea that the old world is the world in its natural state, the world as it should be, and that Solas is repairing it to that original state.
But then, I'm not emotionally invested in this, neither in the status quo or nor in Solas' old world. The latter holds a certain fascination and romantic appeal, but nothing more than that. The only world I'd argue vehemently against is the qunari vision of a world without magic.
The problem is... we don't really KNOW that the world Solas is feeding us is the "world in its natural state". The world in its natural state could be... "no magic" - just because Solas' timeframe had "no Veil" doesn't mean there never was a Veil. Especially if, as you assert, magic is like science. Solas can't create something out of nothing if that's the case... the "Veil" as a possibility had to have existed long before Solas... just like anything in our real natural world exists for eons before we discover it.
@Aeratus: There's no reason to believe that's about Solas. Eleni Zinovia says: "the Maker will return to light their fires" and we know Gaider said HER prophecies will come true.
The reality could easily be that at the final moment the Maker is going to whoop Solas' ass royally (and that's not even a Deus Ex - cause the Maker was the very first concept established in this game in the story at the beginning of DA:O)... and the reality of Thedas will change forever because the Maker will no longer be a question (at least, not for another few hundred years until the event is forgotten in history and mystery).
Personally - I'd love the concept of an actual "All God" - I think it would be fascinating. If we want to contemplate an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God we have no proof for - we have the real world. We don't need Thedas for that.
But anyway - my point is... that's not necessarily about Solas.
@Aeratus: There's no reason to believe that's about Solas. Eleni Zinovia says: "the Maker will return to light their fires" and we know Gaider said HER prophecies will come true.
That is about Solas, clearly.
Also, Zinovia's prophecy will come true as well. In Trespasser, the mural showing the black city shows the chantry's symbol of the maker in the middle. It's not a coincidence.
And still bashing Solas? I guarantee that Solas is not going to be the villain of DA4. The developers have led us to think this way, but history has shown that Bioware likes plot twists. Solas will start off as the antagonist, and then a plot twist will reveal something totally different.
...
Considering that if i recall devs said they will never reveal whether Maker is real or not it is doubtful.
With ways bioware works she could be talking about Solas and/or Corypheus or whatever they will come up with at the moment, pretty sure they didn't plan so much forward considering their decisions and interviews and they go with the flow.
@Medhia_Nox:
My problem with your hypotheses is that you're doubting some pretty fundamental things in order to create your version of history. Consider what kind of stuff the DA team *has* revealed: it's really about nothing that wasn't in doubt before, though the way the revelations worked was occasionally surprising. Meanwhile, those things which were revealed as fact rather than legend or belief have always been pretty hard. So....chances are that Solas really created the Veil and that the Evanuris, along with Solas himself, really were elven super-mages. In Bioware's games, you usually know when you can trust something said by another, and Solas - regardless of his ethics - is clearly intended to be a reliable source about history, if not exactly about his plans for the future. There are also independent sources for all that. Of course, Solas is clearly capable of the level of deception required, yet I see no reason to believe that. I consider the basis of your version of elven history a conspiracy theory.
That is about Solas, clearly.
Also, Zinovia's prophecy will come true as well. In Trespasser, the mural showing the black city shows the chantry's symbol of the maker in the middle. It's not a coincidence.
And still bashing Solas? I guarantee that Solas is not going to be the villain of DA4. The developers have led us to think this way, but history has shown that Bioware likes plot twists. Solas will start off as the antagonist, and then a plot twist will reveal something totally different.
Zinovia's prophesy is most likely about the maker and likely it falls under the lines of true but won't happen in any of the games but afterwards in the setting.
I do agree that Solas won't likely be the main Antagonist, I believe that role will belong to either the Qunari taking on the Tevinter the last power capable of stopping them from taking Thadas over or the people beyond the sea who will show up and take out the Qunari to show how dangerous they are and generally be Hero antagonists with their main target being Solas and his plans. Solas will most likely be the main Antagonist of DA5 with his plots going on in the background of DA4.
Zinovia's prophesy is most likely about the maker and likely it falls under the lines of true but won't happen in any of the games but afterwards in the setting.
The Maker won't appear. Something may happen that validates the prophecy in some way, but the agent of change, if any, won't be divine.
Personally, I think there is a lot to be said about making the veil impenetrable.
Just remove the threat of domination by foreign people AKA the qunari and we are good to go. We can have Orlais and Nevarra dividing Tevinter before the decade is out.
Oh and its quite possible the Veil will automatically get destroyed with Solas' death. There are many instances in DA where when the mage dies all his magic dies with him.
It is possible that Solas used the power of the Orbs of the others Evanuris to maintain the fade,since the veil need to be sustained i think since it's a magic it cannot be perpetual without a source of energy.
To be honest Lord farquaad remind me more of Loghain rather than Solas,even the face.
Personally, I think there is a lot to be said about making the veil impenetrable.
Just remove the threat of domination by foreign people AKA the qunari and we are good to go. We can have Orlais and Nevarra dividing Tevinter before the decade is out.
I would like to see the Veil come down, but far more stably and gradually that Solas seems to intend.
I just kind of want to see what kind of world could be made if both Modern Thedas and Modern Fade are allowed the time to more naturally rejoin one another. I don't want the world of the Ancient Elves, Solas' method is a bit too ... wasteful in regards to the materials already available in Modern Thedes, but I would be lying if I didn't find the Fade one of the MOST interesting parts of the DA Universe and would love to see what it's true form (and that of Thedas) actually is. 
The Maker won't appear. Something may happen that validates the prophecy in some way, but the agent of change, if any, won't be divine.
Yeah, probably. Something will happen to validate Zinovia's prophecy. But the cause for it will be ambiguous, and this forum will rage in debate as to whether the Maker is real or not.
I wonder what Solas would do if Shale were recruited to kick his ass.
Shale: Come here so I can squash your little rat head.
Solas: *turn to stone*
Shale: HAH! The little bald rat tried to turn me to stone.
*squish*
Probably he will just banish her into the fade
The Maker won't appear. Something may happen that validates the prophecy in some way, but the agent of change, if any, won't be divine.
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