503 réponses à ce sujet

[dailove]

Even when he is lying there is some truth to his words.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Even when he is lying there is some truth to his words.

According to the definition of lying, no there is not. You cannot lie while having truth in your words since a lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.". Truth and Lie are literally antonyms of each other. 

[dailove]

According to the definition of lying, no there is not. You cannot lie while having truth in your words since a lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.". Truth and Lie are literally antonyms of each other.

[Maara]

I can't hate him. Although his pridefulness, which makes him look at the current Thedas as 'wrong' and 'needed to be fixed' is horrible (yes it's not as the good old days, but really!), is hateful, he plans the destruction of Thedas as we know it with such guilt and sadness. There is so much depth and so many contradictions here! 

 

And well, he is planning it, but didn't do it yet. So I'm hopeful! 

[dailove]

Well that is the definition of a lie, yes. What I was getting at was that even when he is lying he is only doing so to avoid being found out, but he only lies as much as necessary. He dances around a lot of things you ask and I always felt it was because he does not truly want to lie to you so is trying to be as truthful in the lie as possible. If that makes sense.....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well that is the definition of a lie, yes. What I was getting at was that even when he is lying he is only doing so to avoid being found out, but he only lies as much as necessary. He dances around a lot of things you ask and I always felt it was because he does not truly want to lie to you so is trying to be as truthful in the lie as possible. If that makes sense.....

A lie of omission, which is what you are describing, is still a lie and thus has no truth in it. 

[berelinde]

Most of my friends like him just fine, as do I, but my one friend who dislikes him does so because he found him to be smug and pedantic. That friend has never played Trespasser (he never finished the game), so his opinions aren't based on any meta knowledge. My friend tends to prefer less cerebral characters, as a rule, so I doubt that his opinion would change if he tried the romance.

 

In my experience, romancing a character rarely causes any dramatic changes of opinion. At least not any positive ones. My experience may not be universal, but I've found that when my feelings about a character were negative or ambivalent already, attempting to romance them only soured them further. I like Solas. Like, not love. And despite my platonic affection for him, I found that I liked him less after romancing him than I did before. It wasn't that the VA failed to communicate regret. That came through loud and clear. Who voluntarily remains in a relationship with someone who regrets the involvement? Being friends with him is easier for me. As a friend, he comes to value the relationship and it becomes a source of enlightenment for him. Its effects are more positive, and (at least for me) more pleasant.

 

As always, I speak only for myself. (And in the first paragraph, my friend.)

[Forsythia77]

I never really cared for Solas.  His personality just rubs me the wrong way.  And this was from the get go.  Before I ever knew what he did and was planning to do.  He just bothered me - his mannerisms, how he interacted with people and the world.  He's right up there with Sebastian in terms of characters I actively dislike (but for completely different reasons). Conversely, there are characters that I liked immediately from the get go (Dorian, Alistair, Isabela).  But this applies to pretty much every video game I've played.  Does that make me judgey?  Sure does, but such is life. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

According to the definition of lying, no there is not. You cannot lie while having truth in your words since a lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.". Truth and Lie are literally antonyms of each other. 

 

You can hypothetically tell a lie that has elements of truth. It's not really that hard.

 

Anyway, yeah Solas says explicitly that he is planning to commit genocide by destroying humanity (and all the other races too). "The return of my people means the end of yours." 

 

The way he describes it makes it sound like that's a side effect of his goal rather than the intent in and of itself, but that doesn't really make it better. 

 

Although I suppose it's also worth mentioning that at one point he can say his plan will "most likely" destroy the world. So I guess he's only like 90% certain he's going to commit genocide against all Thedosians.

[nightscrawl]

I never really cared for Solas. His personality just rubs me the wrong way. And this was from the get go. Before I ever knew what he did and was planning to do. He just bothered me - his mannerisms, how he interacted with people and the world. He's right up there with Sebastian in terms of characters I actively dislike (but for completely different reasons). Conversely, there are characters that I liked immediately from the get go (Dorian, Alistair, Isabela). But this applies to pretty much every video game I've played. Does that make me judgey? Sure does, but such is life.

Well there is something to be said for first impressions. Sure, things can change as you get to know someone, but that doesn't always happen, and sometimes it takes more of a conscious effort if you determine that your original dislike was based on something stupid/lame/ignorant/unfounded.

[Forsythia77]

Well there is something to be said for first impressions. Sure, things can change as you get to know someone, but that doesn't always happen, and sometimes it takes more of a conscious effort if you determine that your original dislike was based on something stupid/lame/ignorant/unfounded.

 

I generally feel like when I go with my gut, I'm not wrong.  Whenever I ignore my gut and go against it, crap ends up happening (IRL anyhow).  Anecdotal for sure.. But still!

[berelinde]

Well there is something to be said for first impressions. Sure, things can change as you get to know someone, but that doesn't always happen, and sometimes it takes more of a conscious effort if you determine that your original dislike was based on something stupid/lame/ignorant/unfounded.

It's also possible for feelings about a character to change because the character has undergone character development or has otherwise changed. It's too soon to say anything like that about Solas since we've only seen him in one game and one DLC, but I'm sure that by the time he leaves the series, lots of people will have changed their minds about him, for better and worse. And not always because their initial assessment was unfair.

[Dai Grepher]

According to the definition of lying, no there is not. You cannot lie while having truth in your words since a lie is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.". Truth and Lie are literally antonyms of each other. 

 

Spoiler

 

Goodnight Solas.

[d1ta]

He is the best villain type character Bioware ever created.

Some just hate that he lied.

Some just hate that he is a clear threat to human rule in Thedas and to Chantry in general.

And some other reasons, but those are probably the main ones.

Totes agree on this one.
Love him or hate him, loathe him or respect him, I actually find myself having a mix feelings of those when looking at him.

I love him because he was my Lavellan's Hahren, a mentor that has help shaped her mind and skills and be a better person and a bloody effective leader. He even led her to Skyhold and another totally mixed feelings after knowing that he was the original owner of that place. Part of me feels like in a way, he's trying to tell her with his actions, "Here, I want you to have this."

I hate him for lying and for 'clutching to the past' when he told Dorian(?) that Empires rise and fall and none are more innocent than the other (paraphrasing. Forgot the exact words) Bloody.Hell.Dude! With YOUR expertise and power, we could REBUILD a better place instead of the CTRL+ALT+DEL alternative.

I respect him for all of his bundance of knowledge and wisdom stored and his willingness to share them, in the spirit of making things better. At least he cared, while most of the Elves with power tend to be more aloof.

And I loathe him for what he planned should his orb were not to break and for the trail of body counts so far and soon to follow should he succeed.

It feels almost like Octavian and Mark Anthony, both friends and rivals and they battled each other to the bitter end, where Octavian mourn over the death of his opponent (stream lining history, i know. And I may have look it with rose tint glasses, but you know).
We could celebrate the destruction of Soverign in cheerful and clear conscience, but I think my character would cry over Solas' destruction. And Solas would cry over her demise as well should she failed to stop him. In a game of "Me & my people's survival" vs "Him & his world reviving", I think such situation could only end with destruction of either side. That's why both of them kept fighting even when they are fast friends.

Tldr; He is a most inspiring baddy than Soverign / Harbringer could ever be.

[Almostfaceman]

I think that anyone who doesn't like Solas should replay and travel with him so that you can hear all his dialogue. I was not a fan of his arrogance at first and maybe it only changes if you romance him, but the romance play through adds so much diversity to his character it is amazing! The end of DAI left me feeling heartbroken for him and once I watched Trespasser, since I can't play it on PS3, I am so excited for the next game! There are so many options that could come to light from the way they left it! I think he will be redeemed by his love for the inquisitor, he is at war with himself over the whole thing.

 

I think a good portion of the over-the-top "I hate Solas" posting is just troll bait. At least, I'd like to think so, since otherwise the human race is more incapable of absorbing, subtle and complex story-telling than I thought. 

 

I'm trying to be half-glass-full. The popularity of the Kardashians can't be a sure sign of a self-inflicted apocalypse, can it? Are most of us really that insipid?  

[Ashagar]

Oh I do like Solas but it won't stop me from running him though with a spear to save the world and the various races of which other than the Qunari who apparently aren't the same as the Kossith who drove them into exile all existed before the veil but apparently must die for reasons so the ancient elves may live and have their world back

 

. Also I am not keen on the Elven God Kings returning even with Solas planning to  deal with them given we saw how well his previous plans worked.

[nightscrawl]

I think that anyone who doesn't like Solas should replay and travel with him so that you can hear all his dialogue.

I find this type of remark annoying. My very first play of the game I did take Solas with me everywhere and heard most of his remarks with the other companions I traveled with. My favorites were actually his nerdy magical banter with Dorian. You don't know what people did with their game, how they experienced the character, or whatever else that led to their dislike.

 

All of that aside, I don't really care one way or the other on a personal level. I'm not particularly interested in elven lore, and I choose dialogue options based oh how my character thinks, not on how I think -- my Trev warrior respects Solas, values his opinion, and considers him a friend, and that is how I react to him in the game. Although the next time I replay Trespasser I might take the [Attack!] option, because I've realized that he would probably be so pissed at the circumstance, in addition to being in considerable pain from the Anchor, that he wouldn't be thinking clearly.

[almasy87]

I still don't understand where everybody is getting that he says the is going to slaughter everyone. 
Cause maybe I'm blind or deaf but I watched that scene hundred times and he does not say that. He says he wants to bring back his world, even if your world must die".
But: I think it's a figurative speech. He's saying that "the world like you know it now must die" - so that the world can go back to how it was before (connected to the fade and everything). Why would he want to destroy everything and then live in a destroyed world?
It's the Inquisitor who imho misunderstands this! Cause then the Inquisitor says "we aren't even people to you?" cause he/she does not have an enough clear view of how the world was before to understand what is going to happen, so he/she clearly jumps to the worst conclusion ever, that they are all going to die. But these were not his words. The Inquisitor just instantly freaks out.

He just said that "this" world must end. We do not YET know how this is going to be and what will happen to the people who live there.
It is possible that all the people who are not mages or elves will find it incredibly hard to live in a world that is connected to the fade.. but it doesn't 100% mean that they will die. Sure it's a possibility, which is why he says "IF they must die, I'd rather them die happy" etc etc. But who knows? Maybe they can just learn how to live in that new world.
There is a old note you find in Trespasser which says Fen'Harel only leads those who follow willingly. Which means he must explain his plan to them for them to accept following him. So has suddenly every elf in Thedas become a crazy suicidal wacko? I don't think so.. 
Plus if all he wanted was to rip down the Veil he could have just left Corypheus do it after all. But he does not want it to happen the way Corypheus wanted, so he clearly has a better plan in mind to do this the best way.

There is something missing here that we cannot see yet, and until that is revealed I will keep liking Solas.

Of course if when DA4 (If it will even have Solas in) comes out all this turns out to be wrong and he's just gone batsh*crazy and wants to really destroy everything on sight, then my Lavellan (or whoever will be in her place?) with a heavy heart will have to do her best to kill him.

But I still have hope that this is not the case.

I totally agree with this blog here: http://harellanart.t...orld-solas-says

[berelinde]

Solas doesn't know what will happen if the Veil is torn down, but the Inquisitor might have a clue. And just as Solas might be wrong about the ability of people who aren't ancient elves to survive there, he might also be wrong about the ability of ancient elves to do so. In future Redcliffe, he's dying, too.

 

 

This video doesn't show it because it shows what happens if you recruit Solas first, but if you recruit him second, he says (paraphrased because I can't find the video link), "Remember this. You may need to prevent it in the future." He says this when the party leaves the Docks and enters the Courtyard. Next time you do In Hushed Whispers, try playing through with him recruited second so you can see both dialogues.

 

He imagines that things will just go back to the way they were before he created the Veil, but the world changed while he slept. It contains red lyrium now, a fact that changes everything. Also, the Fade itself changed, too, as did the spirits who lived there. Once, they were more in tune with the real world. Spirits who existed on that plane were exposed to corporeal beings regularly, and they were capable of interacting with them without becoming corrupted. Now, spirits who encounter mortals are more likely to be corrupted into demons. Solas speaks of interacting with spirits with understanding of their natures, but when he interacts with them now, he's doing so in an environment he controls. He isn't entering the Fade physically, he's doing it in his dreams, so he has full control over where he goes and who he speaks to. If you take him to Adamant, he's no more able to prevent the Fade entities from becoming demons than the Inquisitor is. Nothing is as it was.

 

Solas is himself the fair maiden chasing a butterfly off a cliff, and if he can't be persuaded to abandon his plan or if he isn't otherwise stopped, he's going to drag everyone else over the ledge.

 

I'm not saying that the Inquisitor should hunt Solas to the ends of the world or that players shouldn't hate his plans (or that they should!). But it's naive of him to think that he could sleep for over a thousand years and wake up to the world he knew when he entered uthenera.

[magic713]

I do like Solas, even as an antagonist for the future game. He believed it was a mistake separating the Fade from the world and that it is his responsibility to fix it. He is doing what he believes is right. In his mind, the destruction of the world is just an unfortunate unavoidable consequence for making things right again.

 

He certain seems more qualified to fulfill Sandal's prophecy than Corypheus did.

[Silcron]

He's lived for so long and it doesn't even seem like he's thought about trying to find a way to destroy the Veil without killing most people. He can say that he's sorry all he wants, and even feel truly sorry for all I care. In the end I don't really see the supposed positives outweighting the negative. As Spock put it: "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few." So when it comes down to it I'll stop him and put his name on the list of stopped world threats along with the Archdemons and Corypheus.

But hate? Nah, I hate Sera. I can't stand her but Solas is just part of the setting.

"NPCs? Check. Dragons? Check. Mages? Check. Different races? Check. Villain?..."

"Corypheus was dealt with this entry, sir."

"Alright. Solas! Come here! It's your turn to enter the scene as the villain."

[Aeratus]

I still don't understand where everybody is getting that he says the is going to slaughter everyone. 
Cause maybe I'm blind or deaf but I watched that scene hundred times and he does not say that. He says he wants to bring back his world, even if your world must die".
But: I think it's a figurative speech. He's saying that "the world like you know it now must die" - so that the world can go back to how it was before (connected to the fade and everything). Why would he want to destroy everything and then live in a destroyed world?
It's the Inquisitor who imho misunderstands this! Cause then the Inquisitor says "we aren't even people to you?" cause he/she does not have an enough clear view of how the world was before to understand what is going to happen, so he/she clearly jumps to the worst conclusion ever, that they are all going to die. But these were not his words. The Inquisitor just instantly freaks out.

 

That's right. Most people, including the inquisitor (although depending on dialogue option, of course), do not understand the context and has a tendency of looking at things in simple back-and-white labels like good and evil.

 

First, to understand where Solas is coming from, the original elves were originally spirits who manifested in physical form. Solas himself was originally a spirit, as Cole seemingly confirms this by saying that Solas physically manifested in a body when asked by Mythal. The spirit-elves had both a fade and a physical aspect, the former of which was lost after the veil. Thus, when Solas awoke in the real world, he thought that everything in the world was tranquil. 

 

If we were to have a DA game where every character other than the PC is a tranquil speaking in emotionless monotone, it would feel like something is off. It would also lend to the goal of restoring the emotions of everyone in the world. From this perspective, Solas is far more understandable. A world of tranquil lends to the feeling that something is missing. From the tranquil analogy, it is suggested that the current beings on Thedas lack a type of essence associated with the fade. 

 

It should be noted that while the inquisitor can comprehend the difference between a tranquil and one who is not, the inquisitor cannot easily comprehend the difference between the current state of what is "real" in Thedas and spirit-physical duality in the previous veil-less world, that Solas remembers (I would note that the developers did not attempt to make the inquisitor try to comprehend this, because it would be difficult for the player to relate to it when irl is like current Thedas rather than pre-veil Thedas).  

 

But the point isn't whether the original world was better than the current world...

 

Rather, the point is Solas, from his original perspective, coming to understand the real world. Although only subtly stated, Solas's journey is coming to understand and appreciate what the real world is. If Solas is romanced, he remarks at the end of the Corypheus battle that the love he had was "real"... 

 

At the end of Trespasser, Solas expresses his appreciation of the current world, but he is not at the threshold of changing his plans yet. That is where DA4 is coming into play.

[KumoriYami]

I don't him for what he wants to accomplish... I just strongly dislike how he broke mine and Lavellan's heart lol.

[Medhia_Nox]

As I'm killing him I'm going say:  "But Solas - I feel REALLY bad that I have to kill you, I have all these deep conflicted emotions... so, it's all okay... right you derange psychopath?" 

 

He peaked thousands of years ago and now he's trying to relive the good o'le days... like some weird, bald old guy who still wears his Varsity jacket and talks about the big game and how great he was.  

 

I don't do sympathy for people who are trying to destroy the world - I don't care how "deep" or "conflicted" he seems. 

[Forsythia77]

It's also possible for feelings about a character to change because the character has undergone character development or has otherwise changed. It's too soon to say anything like that about Solas since we've only seen him in one game and one DLC, but I'm sure that by the time he leaves the series, lots of people will have changed their minds about him, for better and worse. And not always because their initial assessment was unfair.

 

Speaking about that, I will say my initial impression for Sera was dislike, but the more I played the game the more I liked her.  So we're cool now.  But I never got to cool with Solas.  Trespasser only soured me more on him. Go figure!