503 réponses à ce sujet

[Karmel]

No, Solas saw Corypheus as a tool to use to unlock the Foci. He didn't care about Corypheus' plans until Corypheus surprised him with his effective immortality since then Solas' plans were the one the were stopped from succeeding. 

 

No he didn't. He just lost the Anchor, which yes was a significant loss since that was the purpose of the ritual but Corypheus still had everything else he gained. 

 

No. The former scenario wouldn't work because the longer Solas waits the harder it will be to get his orb back, and the latter doesn't work because as pointed out Corypheus doesn't ally with others, he subjugates them. The closest thing Corypheus had to an ally was The Nightmare, and he planned on having him bound to obedience.  

 

Solas had his agents bring us into his spat with the Viddisala and her faction to once again use us to dispose of a thorn in his side, granting him complete control of the entirety of the Eluvian network. As for removing the mark, he does so for two reasons: to gain it for himself and because the Inquisitor's death would cause more chaos which would impede his plans and/or because you have earned his respect. 

 

What prejudices? I have nothing against elves or mages, even helping those groups on numerous occasions, so there is no prejudice. 

I don't prescribe to Dalish superstitions. What I do prescribe to is the facts about him we discover. 

Why should I feel sympathy for a man who is going against what he stood for and commit genocide to correct what he perceives as a mistake? 

 

Well, if Solas is only interested in removing Veil and destruction of the world, he did not have to rush Cory too much after Magister lost the Anchor. After all, he was not helpful for the Inquisition, anyway,   and he would be closer to the one thing on which he supposedly cared, and if he had played the card of betrayal.

 

This part of the "everything else" which do not gain anything for him, really. He had to look for another way to enter the Fade.

 

Solas is smart, you have to give him that, he could manage. In the end, he is Fen'Harel or not? He got rid of two pantheons of gods, is not it?

 

Viddasala chasing after Solas, we were chasing Viddasala. We have nothing to help Solas, cos' we were unprepared... and he apparently does not need this. Everything we had, was questions. Do you think greater chaos could somehow harm Solas plans? For example, how? As you point out, he's got the Eluvians. And when it comes to "removing the mark" to "earned respect". He earned yours?

 

Prejudice against Solas, maybe?

 

Not every huge loss in people is genocide. And it is not about that Solas commit them with a heavy heart, only for me that will be a side effect of events that Fen'Harel starts. 

 

I do not like to repeat myself, but several people at the forum expressed a similar view, their arguments may appeal to you better. I have a hard time when I have to write in English, and not everything can explain, just as I would like. Still, I am glad that at all someone reads. 

[almasy87]

I'm not sure what you mean by "utterly destroying the world". "The world" takes on many connotations. 
 *snip*
 

There is no indication whatsoever that "modern" elves can't be "restored" by lowering the Veil. Will many die in the chaos wrought in the radical change? Yes. Clearly, though, Solas intends to "restore" "modern" elves to what they "should" be. There's nobody else left to save, unless you've found a large ancient cache of "ancient" elves somewhere that nobody else knows about. 

 

Plus, there'll just be general chaos from a lot of people experiencing some change in nature and not knowing what the fudge is going on... panic ensuing. 

 

The actual world blowing up? Continents and oceans ceasing to exist? I don't think that's what Solas predicts. 

Thank you... 

I agree with everything said here.

Again I hear this "dissolving the world into ashes" while it's not 100% confirmed that this is what would happen :/ I think this is just the worst case scenario. In my opinion many people would be able to find a way to live in connection with the Fade. 

He didn't say "I'm going to personally hunt every single human being on Thedas and kill him/her". He's going to bring down the Veil and he thinks people will die because of this. But how can he know that people won't be able to survive in such a world?  Sure, many will be lost, due to being too weak/unable to change perspective/adapt etc.. which is why he's convinced that it will be a carnage, because he thinks that most people in Thedas are like that ("tranquils"). But nothing says at least Elves wouldn't be able to adapt. After years of enslavement and being treated like animals, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to adapt to a connection with the fade. That's why I think they follow him.. They aren't crazy..
And just as Elves, many humans might also adapt.

Now imagine the scenery: the Veil comes down.
It's not like everyone instantly dies.. The world will start to change. Things (palaces, buildings, cities) will start to crumble maybe. There will be chaos at first, spirits roaming free, so many will be afraid and/or scared about what is happening (who wouldn't?) and start panicking, panic will spread etc. But the only way they will die is if they are weak. Nothing is coming to kill them... Some will start to react when survival instinct will kick in. Give it a bit of time and things would calm down, and they might even start appreciating the way the world is and its more "spiritual side".

Just my 2 cents.. DUnno, maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not willing to say all Thedas is doomed before even fully knowing what bringing down the Veil entails..

[Medhia_Nox]

Solas is doing what he believes is right, even as he acknowledges that his actions are monstrous. I don't think he's evil.

But setting aside the deaths of millions needed to accomplish his scheme, I'm not convinced it will be better for the elves. He claims that he will be able to deal with the freed Evanuris, but he has no idea what they are capable of after millenia of confinement. He has no idea what impact this will have on the darkspawn, which didn't even exist in his time. There's a lot he doesn't know.

So... believing you're right excuses you from being evil?  Is that what we're saying here? 

 

Literally every evil person believes what they are doing is right/necessary. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

I'm not sure what you mean by "utterly destroying the world". "The world" takes on many connotations. For example, the Imperium's fade from glory can be described by an ancient Tevinter as a "destruction of the world" as they behold the ancient ruins of their highways that once spanned a continent. 

 

I think it will be "non elven" inhabitants. There is no indication whatsoever that "modern" elves can't be "restored" by lowering the Veil. Will many die in the chaos wrought in the radical change? Yes. Clearly, though, Solas intends to "restore" "modern" elves to what they "should" be. There's nobody else left to save, unless you've found a large ancient cache of "ancient" elves somewhere that nobody else knows about. Feel free to share where these elves are. 

 

Solas clearly sees a restoration of modern elves to a state where their connection with magic is greatly enhanced to its natural state. For other races without this connection... their worlds will be turned upside down and destroyed... probably because most of them have treated "modern" elves like poop and will have no means to adequately defend themselves from justice/revenge. 

 

Plus, there'll just be general chaos from a lot of people experiencing some change in nature and not knowing what the fudge is going on... panic ensuing. 

 

The actual world blowing up? Continents and oceans ceasing to exist? I don't think that's what Solas predicts. 

 

Solas tells us that he doesn't see modern elves as his people and he also tells us that he will do anything to bring back his people even if meant the death of the Inquisitor's. He says that about an elf Inquisitor as well. Furthermore, an elf Inquisitor who does decide to join Solas flat out says that their willing to die to bring back the ancient elves, implying that they know they'll be destroyed in the aftermath. Lastly, he says that removing the Veil will result in the world turning into raw chaos and he'll have to rearrange to back his world. It's possible that "raw chaos" and "destroy" are ultimately figuratively, but since Solas doesn't bother to tell you that and uses wording that implies he plans to kill all non-ancient elves I'm going to go assume that he's being literal. 

 

Anyways, I think its pretty clear that Solas doesn't plan to uplift the modern elves and as a matter of fact there are some ancient elves still around. The Temple of Mythal had them around and its possible that there are others. 

[Halfdan The Menace]

Solas just need to wear a toothbrush moustache and one elven supremecist outfit to fit the Dread Wolf image.

[dragonflight288]

Solas isn't even the best villain/anti-hero Bioware has given us in Dragon Age games, let alone overall. 

 

I think that would be the main villain of Jade Empire. 

 

In my opinion, hands down best villain in video game history. 

[Ashagar]

I'd say its a tie for Jon Irenicus and Sun Li with Sun Li getting the one of best last lines of any game villain.

[medusa_hair]

 

 

IAnd despite my platonic affection for him, I found that I liked him less after romancing him than I did before. It wasn't that the VA failed to communicate regret. That came through loud and clear. Who voluntarily remains in a relationship with someone who regrets the involvement? 

 

Interesting.  I felt the opposite...I liked him better when I was romancing him.  Although that might have been colored by the fact that I romanced him in my first playthrough so on the next playthrough or two I was still harboring massive bad feelings toward him.  The thing is, when he expresses regret I didn't take it as regret that he had the relationship with you; I took it as regret and guilt that he was hurting you and also regret for himself that he felt he had to sacrifice his love for you for the "greater good" as he saw it.  He is one screwed up dude but not evil, I think, just misguided and stubborn and feeling massively guilty for what he had already done.  I felt like he was a very nuanced character, actually, with good and bad points.  He's obviously very polarizing as well.  

[Bhryaen]

Speaking on a metagame basis, Solas is definitely a lot more interesting as an antagonist character than anything I've ever faced off with. Even on a roleplay basis he was a great character to interact with during the game, albeit a bit dry and humorless much of the time. People made a lot of Loghain as a "complex" character, but with his outright lies and manipulation, his assassination attempts on your character's life, his typical-evil-dude sinister sneers and such, his painfully idiotic nationalism, selling people off as slaves and making deals with a malevolent maleficar and leaving troops to die with nothing but lame rationalizations... he doesn't stray far enough from a villain role to make me think of him otherwise: calling Loghain interesting would be a stretch. Solas, on the other hand, I really enjoyed throughout the game rather than felt easily at odds with- openly kind and thoughtful, passionate about spirits (particularly those of wisdom), respectably knowledgeable and sagacious, lots of great revelations about the very nature of world as we know it, and not trying to thwart the protagonist's plans at all- quite the contrary (albeit for his own reasons). Friggin loved that character as a companion- along with Cole and the dialog between them. Actually both Loghain and Solas had a past of having contributed to the liberation of a people from servitude; it's just that Solas' actions, dialog, and character as we encounter him since his rebel days reflect that past a lot better. He just has that one thingy- the whole bent-on-world-devastation thingy... but he's pretty private about that (haha)... unlike Loghain's clear diabolical coveting of the Ferelden throne. I'm not saying Solas isn't evil (or that he is), just that as a character to encounter with a clearly opposing agenda, he's a great deal more difficult to pigeon-hole as a villain. By the end you can question Solas on everything and still kinda like him despite what he tried to do- may intend still to do. Mass murderers aren't usually so likable.

 

Solas' position isn't so easily assailable: he already devastated a world- that of his own people, no less- even if undoing that devastation would mean committing another atrocity against a different world... at least at this point. Obviously everyone in the world is going to be opposed to it being upturned (though this begs the question of how he's getting so many converts), but what would you do in Solas' sandals? Live with the permanent loss of your people- a loss you're primarily responsible for? Maybe so- "tough dookies, deal-" but would you really do nothing if within your power to fix it? It's fairly clear that the Veil was erected in an attempt to thwart the intentions (whatever they were) of the power-crazed Evanuris- not as an attempt to destroy his own kind (or any other)- and it's possible he was acting rashly, particularly after the murder of Mythal, by resorting to something as devastating and impactful as the Veil rather than proceeding with his organized rebellion. It's unclear how that rebellion was proceeding, if perhaps it was failing at the time he did the Veil thingy, what prompted that decision on his part, but that it could've been a rash move is one possibility- a rashness he can't help but regret. Solas is really damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. In any case there is a compelling case for Solas not being strictly evil. He looks more like our own player characters roleplaying one of those world-determining decisions we do, albeit more of an ME3-type of decision in terms of scale. We just get to be the one interfering this time.

[Almostfaceman]

Solas tells us that he doesn't see modern elves as his people and he also tells us that he will do anything to bring back his people even if meant the death of the Inquisitor's. He says that about an elf Inquisitor as well. Furthermore, an elf Inquisitor who does decide to join Solas flat out says that their willing to die to bring back the ancient elves, implying that they know they'll be destroyed in the aftermath. Lastly, he says that removing the Veil will result in the world turning into raw chaos and he'll have to rearrange to back his world. It's possible that "raw chaos" and "destroy" are ultimately figuratively, but since Solas doesn't bother to tell you that and uses wording that implies he plans to kill all non-ancient elves I'm going to go assume that he's being literal. 

 

Anyways, I think its pretty clear that Solas doesn't plan to uplift the modern elves and as a matter of fact there are some ancient elves still around. The Temple of Mythal had them around and its possible that there are others. 

 

Of course he doesn't see the "modern" elves as his people. He destroyed his people when he raised the Veil... as he said.

 

So... how does one "help his people" when he doesn't have any people left? You restore them.

 

It's no coincidence that Inquistion is the FIRST Dragon Age game to point out the racial difference in elves with regards to their connection to the Fade. What, exactly, would be the point in doing that? Scripts had to be written. Graphics had to be designed. Voice actors had to be paid. Why?

 

The simple answer is to highlight the special connection elves had (and still sorta have) with the Fade. Why? To explain why Solas would want to lower the Veil. 

 

Why would they need this explanation? Because for the last three games they've been telling us the ancient elves are all dead. In fact, we're astounded to find the small remnant in Mythal's temple. Why? Because all of the ancient elves are dead. 

 

You can tell me all day Solas said they aren't his people... I know that already. If they were his people... they wouldn't need to be restored now, would they? 

 

So, let's put that point to bed. Solas saying they're not his people doesn't preclude Solas restoring them to bring back his people.

 

Now, please, don't tell me you think Solas wants to restore the small remnant in Mythal's temple. They don't need restoration. They've kept their connection via their magical geas provided by Mythal and her Temple magic. 

 

All I'm hearing from you right now is that Solas is going to slaughter the "modern" elves and restore some mysteriously intact group of ancient elves nobody knows about that have somehow mysteriously survived the raising of the Veil... which Solas said killed all the ancient elves. 

 

No, it makes much more sense that Solas wants to restore fully this still-existent special connection to the Fade that all elves have. That's why the game bothers to tell us about this connection and that's why the game has Solas bringing the modern elves to him for when he breaks the Veil. 

 

Solas says that the world will be destroyed and he'll lower the Veil and restore his people. This doesn't preclude restoring "modern" elves at all. Nowhere near all modern elves are going to join Solas. Many of the Dalish won't either, especially the tribes that attacked him before when he tried to speak with them pre-Inquisition. 

 

But thousands will join Solas. Enough to possibly re-ignite a people. 

 

Solas demonstrates his need to re-connect with his people. He goes to the Dalish tribes. He even tries to convince Sera that she's something "more" than she wants to acknowledge. All of this is written into the story to give us motivation. He doesn't even like Sera, but still tries to see if she can be convinced to possibly join him in his future efforts... to see if she has any interest in being connected to what she really is when the state of nature is back to normal - no Veil. 

 

Solas can kill millions of humans, elves, Qunari, dwarves... and still restore a significant number of "modern" elves by drawing them to him and casting down the Veil.

 

So, to go by your theory, you have to ignore every clue the game gives you about Solas's attitude towards modern elves and the special connection elves have with the Fade. 

 

Even without Solas... what do you think would happen if the Veil were to collapse for any other reason? Is there something in the lore, in the game, that indicates that this special connection elves have with the Fade will not go back to "normal"? No, there isn't. 

[Aeratus]

...

Is there something in the lore, in the game, that indicates that this special connection elves have with the Fade will not go back to "normal"? No, there isn't.

 

This is an interesting question.

 

Although you mention the aspect of a connection to the fade, I think it is more than just a connection that is at issue.

 

The ancient elves seemed to have been dualistic in having both a fade aspect and a manifested (physical) aspect. After the veil was created, these two aspects separated. The physical aspect of the elves grew into the modern elves. But Solas appears more interested in the fade aspect. He said "The Veil took everything from the elves, even themselves", which suggests that the true "people" (i.e., the elves "themselves") are the aspects of the elves sealed away in the fade, as opposed to the manifestations remaining in Thedas.  

 

I would think that if the physical aspect has been lost, the fade aspect can re-manifest the physical aspect, because this is how the elves originally came into being in the first place (see, for example, cole's statement "He did not want a body, but she asked him to come" and the codex line "Those who never manifested outside the Fade will find it easier to find its stillest roots"). I also think that it is suggested that the continual re-manifestation of the physical form is what gave elves immortality.   

 

But can the physical aspect restablish the (full) fade aspect? Maybe if you're a dreamer mage, but maybe not for everybody. But you are right that is is not precluded by current lore. 

[thats1evildude]

In all likelihood, I suspect that when Solas collapses the Veil, reality will become mutable and he will simply reshape the world so that humans no longer exist.

[berelinde]

Interesting.  I felt the opposite...I liked him better when I was romancing him.  Although that might have been colored by the fact that I romanced him in my first playthrough so on the next playthrough or two I was still harboring massive bad feelings toward him.  The thing is, when he expresses regret I didn't take it as regret that he had the relationship with you; I took it as regret and guilt that he was hurting you and also regret for himself that he felt he had to sacrifice his love for you for the "greater good" as he saw it.  He is one screwed up dude but not evil, I think, just misguided and stubborn and feeling massively guilty for what he had already done.  I felt like he was a very nuanced character, actually, with good and bad points.  He's obviously very polarizing as well.  

Obviously, YMMV. Affection is definitely a personal thing, possibly the most personal thing, so each person is going to experience the situation in their own way. I understand the nature of his regret, but the thing is, it's still regret. He regrets being in a relationship. He regrets it because it has to end and that's causing pain, but the thing is, the whole thing is making him miserable. Been there. Well, not with an elven god bent on a plan that will probably destroy the world, obviously, but at that point, who he is and what his motives are don't really matter all that much. The relationship is painful. He doesn't want to cause pain (or to be in pain himself, I guess), but he will because it's better than dragging it out and causing more pain later. My point is that the kindest thing Lavellan can do is let him go. 

 

And yeah, I suppose it matters whether you romance him before or after you know the whole story. My opinions about him were already formed by the time I got around to it. In fact, I would never have romanced him at all if I didn't know what was in store. I'm a sucker for tragic romances (I romanced Alistair with a mage in the first game and Anders in the second and I loved both of them!), so I was hoping that I'd get to the point where my Lavellan had to walk away and that it would hurt... but it didn't. The whole thing was just too cerebral, I guess, or not enough emotional content, and I never felt enough of a connection to be gutted by the ending. Again, YMMV. It didn't work for me. That doesn't mean it won't work for others.

[Ashagar]

In all likelihood, I suspect that when Solas collapses the Veil, reality will become mutable and he will simply reshape the world so that humans no longer exist.

 

I'd doubt Solas that could do that,  the humans and other mortal races existed before the veil, they just didn't dwell on the continent of Thadas other than the dwarves. There's even references from what I understand that a few of the more blood thirsty elven god kings used to hunt their tribes for sport. More likely there would be a large amount of horrific deaths at the hands of the throngs of demons that dwell in the fade that no longer have a veil to keep them from entering the world.

[Lulupab]

Old Tevinter had trade going with Arlathan kingdom of elves for years. During this time there was no veil. So how do you explain humans living and having an independent kingdom when there was no veil?

[nightscrawl]

Literally every evil person believes what they are doing is right/necessary.

This is completely inaccurate. Some people know they are doing wrong and don't give a damn because they are selfish, greedy bastards who only care about themselves. And if you're just talking about evil characters, then the same applies to them. There are also seriously insane people/characters who revel in being insane and evil, and harming others.

[Medhia_Nox]

@nightscrawl:  Hence the "necessary" part.  Some douchebag saying:  "This is how I live."  is making an excuse.  ALL people excuse their behaviors... evil people excuse them beyond reason.  I don't care if they didn't get enough hugs, or they're really hurting, or whatever lame ass excuse they come up with - there is no reason to hurt others.  Even self-defense is a weak excuse regardless of how understandable it is.  Would I defend myself?  Of course I would.  Would I excuse it away afterward?  No, I wouldn't.  I would own the part of me that possibly killed another person... and accept that it was because I failed to find any other recourse.  

 

People are weak and they excuse their weakness because self-improvement is hard and takes work. 

 

Solas is excusing his behavior by saying:  "It is regrettable, but it must be done."  No it "mustn't" be... he could do a million other things than destroy Thedas, but he's choosing this atrocity to serve his selfish needs and excusing it away.  And his idiotic appeal to:  "Would you..."  No Solas... I wouldn't.  I wouldn't destroy the world to save my family... so kiss my ass you bald rat faced megalomaniac. 

 

And before we go onto a "But the PC.... " tangent  These are linear games providing only a handful of options for conflict resolution (often only one - violence) so it's impossible to discuss what I would do... my characters are stuck in video game morality, the NPCs are not bound by this morality because they exist in a different spectrum (that of the narrative without game).  So yeah - when I go through combat obstacle courses I ignore that part of the game when considering my character's morality... because the game forces you into it as a game mechanic.  Some RPGs allow you to avoid combat - I hope Bioware becomes advanced enough some day to make this part of their design (kind of shocking since Bioware is the group that's supposed to focus on storytelling).  

 

Can you point to one historical human to truly "reveled in being insane"?   

[nightscrawl]

You misunderstand. My point is that those people LIKE being evil and hurting others. They don't excuse it, and I never claimed that they did, so I don't know where you got, "This is how I live." They do what do they because they like it, and because they can, they don't need some excuse.

 

I wasn't relating it to the whole Solas discussion, even though that is what this thread is about, but merely your specific assertion.

 

And, Ted Bundy.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Of course he doesn't see the "modern" elves as his people. He destroyed his people when he raised the Veil... as he said.

 

So... how does one "help his people" when he doesn't have any people left? You restore them.

 

It's no coincidence that Inquistion is the FIRST Dragon Age game to point out the racial difference in elves with regards to their connection to the Fade. What, exactly, would be the point in doing that? Scripts had to be written. Graphics had to be designed. Voice actors had to be paid. Why?

 

The simple answer is to highlight the special connection elves had (and still sorta have) with the Fade. Why? To explain why Solas would want to lower the Veil. 

 

Why would they need this explanation? Because for the last three games they've been telling us the ancient elves are all dead. In fact, we're astounded to find the small remnant in Mythal's temple. Why? Because all of the ancient elves are dead. 

 

You can tell me all day Solas said they aren't his people... I know that already. If they were his people... they wouldn't need to be restored now, would they? 

 

So, let's put that point to bed. Solas saying they're not his people doesn't preclude Solas restoring them to bring back his people.

 

Now, please, don't tell me you think Solas wants to restore the small remnant in Mythal's temple. They don't need restoration. They've kept their connection via their magical geas provided by Mythal and her Temple magic. 

 

All I'm hearing from you right now is that Solas is going to slaughter the "modern" elves and restore some mysteriously intact group of ancient elves nobody knows about that have somehow mysteriously survived the raising of the Veil... which Solas said killed all the ancient elves. 

 

No, it makes much more sense that Solas wants to restore fully this still-existent special connection to the Fade that all elves have. That's why the game bothers to tell us about this connection and that's why the game has Solas bringing the modern elves to him for when he breaks the Veil. 

 

Solas says that the world will be destroyed and he'll lower the Veil and restore his people. This doesn't preclude restoring "modern" elves at all. Nowhere near all modern elves are going to join Solas. Many of the Dalish won't either, especially the tribes that attacked him before when he tried to speak with them pre-Inquisition. 

 

But thousands will join Solas. Enough to possibly re-ignite a people. 

 

Solas demonstrates his need to re-connect with his people. He goes to the Dalish tribes. He even tries to convince Sera that she's something "more" than she wants to acknowledge. All of this is written into the story to give us motivation. He doesn't even like Sera, but still tries to see if she can be convinced to possibly join him in his future efforts... to see if she has any interest in being connected to what she really is when the state of nature is back to normal - no Veil. 

 

Solas can kill millions of humans, elves, Qunari, dwarves... and still restore a significant number of "modern" elves by drawing them to him and casting down the Veil.

 

So, to go by your theory, you have to ignore every clue the game gives you about Solas's attitude towards modern elves and the special connection elves have with the Fade. 

 

Even without Solas... what do you think would happen if the Veil were to collapse for any other reason? Is there something in the lore, in the game, that indicates that this special connection elves have with the Fade will not go back to "normal"? No, there isn't. 

 

Solas: I am not Corypheus. I take no joy in this. But the return of my people means the end of yours. 

 

Solas: I hope this gives your people some final peace. 

 

He uses these exact lines for a Dalish Inquisitor the same he would for a human, dwarf or qunari.

 

His new plan, whatever it may be, involves destruction of the current world and end of all of its mortal inhabitants so that he bring back his people. Sure he mentions restoration but he makes a point of stating that he means to restore his people, not the elves of today. And while yes, he did try to connect to the Dalish and Sera that was when he still trying to figure out whether he'd go ahead with his plan and if their were any worth in modern elves. He comes to the conclusion if your friends with him that there is, but that doesn't change his course of action. He just feels bad about it now.

 

But you know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your right in that Solas plans on uplifting his followers to super elf status at the expense of all the other inhabitants of Thedas. That's still freaking awful and monstrous! Corypheus wanted to do the same thing for his Venatori so that he could bring back the ancient days of Tevinter, but I stopped him because his plan was insane and harmed everyone that wasn't one of his people. The only difference between Solas and Corypheus is that at least Solas has the decency to feel bad about what he's doing. And look, I feel bad for Solas on some level and want his people to be restored people and for elves to be in a better position in Thedas, but regardless the extinction of every other on Thedas is to high of a price. 

 

To your last point about elves possibly being restored if the Veil is collapsed without Solas I'd point towards the bad future in Redcliffe where the Veil was all but coming down and the result was reality falling apart and Sera most definitely not suddenly having magical powers or immortality. 

[Aeratus]

Solas is excusing his behavior by saying:  "It is regrettable, but it must be done."  No it "mustn't" be... he could do a million other things than destroy Thedas, but he's choosing this atrocity to serve his selfish needs and excusing it away.  And his idiotic appeal to:  "Would you..."  No Solas... I wouldn't.  I wouldn't destroy the world to save my family... so kiss my ass you bald rat faced megalomaniac. 

 

And before we go onto a "But the PC.... " tangent  These are linear games providing only a handful of options for conflict resolution (often only one - violence) so it's impossible to discuss what I would do... my characters are stuck in video game morality

 

Solas is completely correct, actually. The inquisitor wouldn't mind killing a ton of darkspawn, because the inquisitor wouldn't consider the darkspawn as his people. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Solas is completely correct, actually. The inquisitor wouldn't mind killing a ton of darkspawn, because the inquisitor wouldn't consider the darkspawn as his people. 

 

Isn't that because the darkspawn are actively trying to kill you and everyone else rather then because you don't consider them people? 

[Medhia_Nox]

@nightscrawl:  people like Ted Bundy don't say:  "I'm insane, these things are not acceptable and I should stop."  So they cannot actively "revel" in being evil because they have no comprehension that what they are doing is evil.  Like Solas - who actually thinks what he's doing is just: "What must be done."   I would say that there is nothing intrinsically different between the mindset that drives a serial killer - and Solas.  The only real difference is power level. 

 

Also, "because I like it" is an excuse.  They do it because it gives them a feeling of power over their weak, pathetic powerless lives (again, nothing different here for Solas). 

 

While they might know it's "wrong" to society - they lack empathy and are incapable of truly comprehending why it is wrong. 

 

They are, ultimately, the truest expression of moral relativism.  

[nightscrawl]

When I say that they do it because they like it, I'm talking about the fact that they get off on it. Ted Bundy got off on raping, killing, decapitating, and defiling the corpses of women. If you do something because you like it, you get pleasure from the act -- cooking, watching a movie, playing a video game, being affectionate with your partner -- what is the excuse there?

 

I also think it's absurd to compare Solas to a serial killer, just as I thought it was absurd to call Anders a "terrorist." And I can still think these things while still disagreeing with those characters' actions. But I'll leave others to argue that for me.

 

That's my final response. We will just have to disagree.

[ComedicSociopathy]

When I say that they do it because they like it, I'm talking about the fact that they get off on it. Ted Bundy got off on raping, killing, decapitating, and defiling the corpses of women. If you do something because you like it, you get pleasure from the act -- cooking, watching a movie, playing a video game, being affectionate with your partner -- what is the excuse there?

 

I also think it's absurd to compare Solas to a serial killer, just as I thought it was absurd to call Anders a "terrorist." And I can still think these things while still disagreeing with those characters' actions. But I'll leave others to argue that for me.

 

That's my final response. We will just have to disagree.

 

I don't think that Solas is a serial killer in the same way that Ted Bundy is, but Anders is a terrorist by definition. I suppose you can give him some slack if he was Rivalry Anders, in which case was possessed by Justice, but Friendship Anders gets none. He blow up that Chantry to instill fear in Meredith and manipulate her insanity so that she would attack the Circle. He used fear to reach the political aim of freeing his follow mages. That's pretty much terrorism. Buy, hey, if you still like even though he's mass-murdering terrorist that's fine. Love/friendship conquers all, right? 

[Lulupab]

I don't think that Solas is a serial killer in the same way that Ted Bundy is, but Anders is a terrorist by definition. I suppose you can give him some slack if he was Rivalry Anders, in which case was possessed by Justice, but Friendship Anders gets none. He blow up that Chantry to instill fear in Meredith and manipulate her insanity so that she would attack the Circle. He used fear to reach the political aim of freeing his follow mages. That's pretty much terrorism. Buy, hey, if you still like even though he's mass-murdering terrorist that's fine. Love/friendship conquers all, right? 

 

Anders, in either path, is only technically a terrorist. The word does not have the modern meaning, nor implication.

 

Why? Because the Chantry rules 80% of Thedas. Thinking otherwise is a deluded opinion, specially in DA2 timeline. Given that, the Chantry is not different from a government building at all. I see Anders exactly the way I see "V" from V for Vendetta. Very similar motives, similar sufferings, and similar solution.

 

The benefit of Friend Anders is the fact that he doesn't lose himself like the rival Anders, and the Anders mentioned in DA:I is friend Anders who was able to continue living with himself many years after DA2.