94 Antworten in diesem Thema

[fhs33721]

I'd say the only thing that makes any sense of the ending as it stands at the moment is IT, or shockingly bad writing.

Are you implying that IT and shockingly bad writing isn't one and the same?

[rossler]

The ending only feels off if you took it at face value.

[Ptolema]

I only finished ME3 for the first time a few days ago. Managed to go in spoiler free too. After going online to indulge in all the spoilers for the stuff I missed, I did have a huge "omg!" moment when I came across the IT. I'm not normally interested or persuaded by fan theories, but IT clicked with a couple of things I'd noticed during my playthrough that felt off to me, and I didn't have an adequate explanation for:

 

First, that kid at the start, and no-one else seeming to see him. I wrote it off at the time as me reading to much into it.

 

Then there were the dreams, and Shep's general demeanour through the game. It felt like she was gradually going downhill, and that there was going to be some sort of crunchpoint where it was pull it back together or fall apart.

 

Third, I was confused as to why after the blast from Harbinger, we got the white-out "you're in a dream" transition. And then after there were a bunch of tiny clues that, to me, were hinting it wasn't real. But there was nothing concrete so, again, I dismissed it as "reading too much into it."

 

But having read up on IT, and seen how much more tiny pieces of evidence there are for it, I'm convinced. I just don't believe that given the quality of writing in so much of the series (yes, I think the writing was mostly excellent, I know some disagree) they would make so many mistakes that would point to the idea that it's an indoctrintion attempt, without realising what they're doing.

 

What it feels like to me is they've tried to present a three choices that you can take at face value, if that's what you want or you don't notice the weird stuff, or it doesn't convince you. And that's totally fine, and a valid ending. But if you *do* start to notice that stuff, if you *do* think it begins to add up and there's something amiss, then you can take away what, for me, is a substantially more satisfying ending: Shep's final choice is to choose hope and self-determination, over the two variations on control, and defeat indoctrination.

 

The thing is, I don't need or even neccessarily *want* Bioware to ever confirm it. Because I think it's meant to be a hard sell, it's not meant to be the ending everyone sees, and that plays into the whole indoctrination thing and how it insidiously it can work.

 

And I don't even think that makes it a *good* ending. I wanted some real closure, the chance of a little hope. But, for me, it's a hell of a lot more satisfying than the face value options. Basically, I think Bioware tried to be too clever and give us something that worked beautifully with the themes of the series, but terribly when it came to the emotional satisfaction of the gamer.

[rossler]

Shepard's PTSD is a side effect of Reaper indoctrination. Indoctrination corrupts the limbic system which is responsible for PTSD. 

[themikefest]

Shepard's PTSD is a side effect of Reaper indoctrination. Indoctrination corrupts the limbic system which is responsible for PTSD. 

If Shepard has PSTD, he/she may of had it before ME1 depending on the background chosen.

[rossler]

If Shepard has PSTD, he/she may of had it before ME1 depending on the background chosen.

 

That's one theory. Mine is another. 

 

I don't recall any PTSD side effects presented in the previous games though. It's usually something that sticks with you for a very long time. It would be a daily struggle. There's more PTSD side effects shown in ME3 than anything. 

[themikefest]

That's one theory. Mine is another. 

 

I don't recall any PTSD side effects presented in the previous games though. It's usually something that sticks with you for a very long time. It would be a daily struggle. There's more PTSD side effects shown in ME3 than anything. 

That's because Bioware never gave it any thought until ME3.

[rossler]

That's because Bioware never gave it any thought until ME3.

 

Maybe what you thought was PTSD in Shepard's background wasn't true PTSD. 

[themikefest]

Maybe what you thought was PTSD in Shepard's background wasn't true PTSD. 

Why don't you explain what true PTSD is?

[The One True Nobody]

Don't comment on "true PTSD" unless you suffer it, 'kay-please-thanks.

 

They don't show PTSD because you can't make a player understand PTSD from a first-person thought process perspective. Leaving the exact degree to which Shepard's past trauma may have scarred him/her let you leave it to your imagination and use it in roleplay to whatever degree you wanted to decide how it would affect their actions and choices. The closest thing ME1 ever did to acknowledging PTSD as a thing for Shepard was Hackett potentially mentioning you could have serious emotional scars if you pick a specific background.

 

And the game that tries to force PTSD on the player is the one with the crappiest dialogue roleplay options. Go figure.

[jtav]

I think mandating PTSD is fine. Nobody wakes up and says "I'm going to get PTSD." It's an illness, not a character defect. Where BW fell down is using the kid as the main manifestation without bothering to build a connection to him first.

[aoibhealfae]

If you're a Colonist, Shepard will say that her/his family fought against the Batarian raiders and was buried under rubble due to an artillery strike. Later if she if she will dream instead of having nightmares and Shepard could either reassure her or just say I don't know. This is also the background where Hackett will say that Shepard have serious emotional scars. If you're Spacer, Lieutenant Zabaleta would ask for money so he would forget whatever he saw on Mindoir and again, he mentions of having nightmares. If you're a Sole Survivor, Toombs will ask if the screaming will stop and you can again reassure him or not. You can even talk to Liara about having continuous nightmares from the beacon. In other words, the story of Shepard having PTSD do exist.

 

But ME2 is the anomaly here. In You are supposed to care more about Miranda's imperfections, Jack's screwed up past, Mordin's ethics on genocide, Garrus' failures, Tali's trial, Grunt's puberty, Jacob's rapist dad..... .... urrr etc.... than the fact that Shepard died and simply woke up and its business as usual for the entirety of the game.

 

In ME3, Shepard do have an explanation of Terminator-like Shepard in ME2 which was inside Ashley's talk about afterlife.

 

Shepard: Even with my experience, I don't think I should be answering questions about your beliefs. When I realized what had happened. What Cerberus had done to bring me back...I panicked. I shut down. I pushed the fear away just long enough to deal with the Collectors...but it didn't stay away. The time alone in Alliance lock-up I had to confront what I was.

Ashley: What are you afraid of?

Shepard: Ash, I don't know if I died and came back...or simply died.

 

And even at Cronus station where Shepard talk about it in paraphrased. It's coping mechanism. Denial, repression, withdrawal, distancing. However, it seemed felt 'forced' if you want a blank slate Shepard but I have no problem playing a tragic Shepard to justify all this. 

[The One True Nobody]

If you're a Colonist, Shepard will say that her/his family fought against the Batarian raiders and was buried under rubble due to an artillery strike. Later if she if she will dream instead of having nightmares and Shepard could either reassure her or just say I don't know. This is also the background where Hackett will say that Shepard have serious emotional scars. If you're Spacer, Lieutenant Zabaleta would ask for money so he would forget whatever he saw on Mindoir and again, he mentions of having nightmares. If you're a Sole Survivor, Toombs will ask if the screaming will stop and you can again reassure him or not. You can even talk to Liara about having continuous nightmares from the beacon. In other words, the story of Shepard having PTSD do exist.

 

But ME2 is the anomaly here. In You are supposed to care more about Miranda's imperfections, Jack's screwed up past, Mordin's ethics on genocide, Garrus' failures, Tali's trial, Grunt's puberty, Jacob's rapist dad..... .... urrr etc.... than the fact that Shepard died and simply woke up and its business as usual for the entirety of the game.

 

In ME3, Shepard do have an explanation of Terminator-like Shepard in ME2 which was inside Ashley's talk about afterlife.

 

Shepard: Even with my experience, I don't think I should be answering questions about your beliefs. When I realized what had happened. What Cerberus had done to bring me back...I panicked. I shut down. I pushed the fear away just long enough to deal with the Collectors...but it didn't stay away. The time alone in Alliance lock-up I had to confront what I was.

Ashley: What are you afraid of?

Shepard: Ash, I don't know if I died and came back...or simply died.

 

And even at Cronus station where Shepard talk about it in paraphrased. It's coping mechanism. Denial, repression, withdrawal, distancing. However, it seemed felt 'forced' if you want a blank slate Shepard but I have no problem playing a tragic Shepard to justify all this. 

 

That's the dissonance between ME3 and the other games. They wanted to give Shepard a set character with some vaguely branching options, while ME1/ME2 largely left it to you to determine how Shepard feels. The closest thing to that ME3 did was let you decide exactly in what way Shepard was troubled when asked if he or she was troubled about something. The way this stress caused Shepard to generally behave was often decided for you.

 

Of course, the problem with the "forced PTSD" angle in ME3 is more that it focuses on an NPC who was written and acted in a very rigid way that makes it very difficult to care about them. That kid was more "Terminator-like" than Shepard ever was!

[rossler]

I think mandating PTSD is fine. Nobody wakes up and says "I'm going to get PTSD." It's an illness, not a character defect. Where BW fell down is using the kid as the main manifestation without bothering to build a connection to him first.

 

I think people just hate him in general. They would have preferred that the connection be someone you know well as opposed to some random kid. 
 

Don't comment on "true PTSD" unless you suffer it, 'kay-please-thanks. They don't show PTSD because you can't make a player understand PTSD from a first-person thought process perspective.

 

Well okay, but Mike shouldn't claim Shepard had PTSD because of some codex entry/background. It's not a first hand perspective. 

[themikefest]

Well okay, but Mike shouldn't claim Shepard had PTSD because of some codex entry/background. It's not a first hand perspective. 

Can you quote a post Mike claimed that Shepard had PTSD? I read his post and it said if. remember the word if, it may of happened before the events of ME1 depending on the background the player chose.

[aoibhealfae]

Not sure the nightmare kid was supposed to a representation of PTSD. He was just one of the faces among millions of souls Shepard couldn't save... which is a lot if you combine all the death count pre-ME1 and until ME3. And why not focus the atmosphere in the dreams? The degradation of the scene, how the lights dimmed, how the oily whispers get stronger with everyone saying Shepard's name in tandem and how the shadows gather around Shepard. A lot of things that was shown was just symbolism... which is free to be interpreted and purposely vague.. so we could spend years arguing it over and over on the internet...

 

But there's another form of PTSD that was shown in ME3 and it was with Ashley because they didn't show it in ME1. They purposely broke her character arcs just to portray a delayed PTSD. Something that was very absent in ME1/2 but was shoved into her character last minute without further explanation. 

[jtav]

Not sure the nightmare kid was supposed to a representation of PTSD. He was just one of the faces among millions of souls Shepard couldn't save... which is a lot if you combine all the death count pre-ME1 and until ME3. And why not focus the atmosphere in the dreams? The degradation of the scene, how the lights dimmed, how the oily whispers get stronger with everyone saying Shepard's name in tandem and how the shadows gather around Shepard. A lot of things that was shown was just symbolism... which is free to be interpreted and purposely vague.. so we could spend years arguing it over and over on the internet...
 
But there's another form of PTSD that was shown in ME3 and it was with Ashley because they didn't show it in ME1. They purposely broke her character arcs just to portray a delayed PTSD. Something that was very absent in ME1/2 but was shoved into her character last minute without further explanation.

Could you explain further about Ash's PTSD? Kaidan is my usual VS and I'm curious.

[aoibhealfae]

A lot of Ashley's personal arc in ME1 was resolved by itself (her animosity against alien races, her indignant about Alliance stance with the aliens, humanity have to be stronger, her grandfather's legacy on her military career). Meanwhile because of new writer, outside of her romance, Ashley's arc in ME3 was mainly about her coping with the pressure as an officer and an expansion of her survivor's guilt.

 

Udina specifically mentions that she is useful to him because of her PTSD as a sole survivor of Eden Prime, which made sense since he intended to use her as his human shield. If you manage to sway her to your side, she will have a slight crisis and wants to be with you because she made the wrong choice and trust the wrong people and you're the only one who could set her straight.  Later you have a scene at the memorial where she needed your support to talk to her grieving sister.. and somehow after Admiral Koris mission, you found her completely drunk on the floor. There's not really much lead up to this but it was hinted that she feels bad because her sister was suffering and then prior to that she felt guilty about trusting Udina over Shepard and she felt like she betrayed Shepard and dead Kaidan and her father and her Eden Prime unit and all that emotions which make her wanna burst into sappy spoken poetry and drinking competition.... siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

 

Either way, Ashley's PTSD is just her being less happy about being alive and drinking a lot while ruminating on her existentialism. And like her suddenly-resolved ME1 arcs, she simply got over it. And yes, it is underwhelming as it sounds.

[rossler]

Can you quote a post Mike claimed that Shepard had PTSD? I read his post and it said if. remember the word if, it may of happened before the events of ME1 depending on the background the player chose.

 

I also used the word claimed. 

 

Big difference than saying Shepard actually *has* PTSD because of his background service. 

 

I never said Shepard *had* PTSD. 

[themikefest]

I also used the word claimed. 

 

Big difference that saying Shepard actually *has* PTSD because of his background service. 

 

I never said Shepard *had* PTSD. 

So why are saying I posted something when I never did?