After finishing Trespasser, I like this game a whole lot more, and I hope someone shivs Teagan.
This is easily my favorite character ensemble across the series thus far, and my favorite realization of the whole DAverse, especially since there's a greater focus on the history of magic, which I generally enjoy.
I really understood Teagan's position. It was so Ferelden. I sympathized with the man.
I really understood Teagan's position. It was so Ferelden. I sympathized with the man.
I understood his position too, yet he had to come off as an ass. I'm curious about his comment about Caer Bronach. What does he say if you don't save Crestwood? I feel like retroactively spiting Ferelden by letting the corpses beat the villagers into the dirt and siding with the Templars. I do like that the Inquisitor can call the Orlesians' civil war Inane and then dismiss them saying that she'll save the world....again.
I think he just does not mention it at all.
Frankly, I didn't see anything wrong with the romances in this game.
Actually isn't the taking of Caer Bronach something you HAVE to do? I forget maybe not but I know you go there to meet the Warden. Are those caves flooded till you unflood them? Now I am not so sure...
Frankly, I didn't see anything wrong with the romances in this game.
Caer Bronach only has to be captured if you're going to close the giant lake Rift. The Warden and Hawke meeting doesn't have anything to do with it.
Frankly, I didn't see anything wrong with the romances in this game.
I think it's just depending on the people and how they view the characters. Not everyone is the same. People find Cassandra to be ugly and mannish face, I find her to be a very attractive woman. People enjoy Dorian, I find him to be a stereotype. Basically come down to opinions, I guess.
Actually isn't the taking of Caer Bronach something you HAVE to do? I forget maybe not but I know you go there to meet the Warden. Are those caves flooded till you unflood them? Now I am not so sure...
I think it's just depending on the people and how they view the characters. Not everyone is the same. People find Cassandra to be ugly and mannish face, I find her to be a very attractive woman. People enjoy Dorian, I find him to be a stereotype. Basically come down to opinions, I guess.
I personally don't like Sera as a character, but Sera's romance arc isn't badly done in my opinion. Same with Cullen. Not a fan, but his romance arc is also fine to me.
Every other romance left, I like the characters for also.
I understood his position too, yet he had to come off as an ass. I'm curious about his comment about Caer Bronach. What does he say if you don't save Crestwood? I feel like retroactively spiting Ferelden by letting the corpses beat the villagers into the dirt and siding with the Templars. I do like that the Inquisitor can call the Orlesians' civil war Inane and then dismiss them saying that she'll save the world....again.
He says something to the effect that the Inquisition has troops in Ferelden. It amounts to the same as occupying a Ferelden fort in his rant.
Caer Bronach only has to be captured if you're going to close the giant lake Rift. The Warden and Hawke meeting doesn't have anything to do with it.
I'm really surprised that Bio made this a side quest rather than having the Warden ally holed up in some cave on the far side of the lake, and we had to close the rift in order to reach him. The main questline feels like they were conscious of how large the DAI world is, so they wanted to provide the bare bones route to complete the main plot so people wouldn't complain about having to do too much side content to finish the game. Fair enough, although the power points made that necessary, anyway. I find it strange that both Crestwood and Western Approach are maps that we have to visit to advance the plot, but we can really skip over all content in both of them, unlike in the Hinterlands. It would have been nice if we had had to complete some of the zone quests to advance the main plot.
I really understood Teagan's position. It was so Ferelden. I sympathized with the man.
You can sympathize with his position. But he was still a douche about it.
I personally don't like Sera as a character, but Sera's romance arc isn't badly done in my opinion. Same with Cullen. Not a fan, but his romance arc is also fine to me.
Every other romance left, I like the characters for also.
I think that for Dorian, I like his character, but his romance arc is very badly done for me. I want something unique from a gay relationship, not the story I have seen in movies and TV shows millions of time, I'm kinda sick of the whole gay being persecuted, personally. I just want a happy relationship, I want to escape in a fictional world where being gay is normal, not having to feel further persecuted. The same with Iron Bull, I like his character, but his romance seems like you have to be in a BDSM relationship or he breaks it off. You can't even just tell him to take it slow at first. It's just weird to jump into a BDSM relationship straight away without knowing someone on an intimate level first. This is why I can't do any of the gay romance. Cassandra is a very well done, I love tsundere character, and while she puts up a front, she's actually a hopeless romance on the inside. It's very cute and adorable. I have explained about other characters why I didn't like them.
I think that for Dorian, I like his character, but his romance arc is very badly done for me. I want something unique from a gay relationship, not the story I have seen in movies and TV shows millions of time, I'm kinda sick of the whole gay being persecuted, personally. I just want a happy relationship, I want to escape in a fictional world where being gay is normal, not having to feel further persecuted. The same with Iron Bull, I like his character, but his romance seems like you have to be in a BDSM relationship or he breaks it off. You can't even just tell him to take it slow at first. It's just weird to jump into a BDSM relationship straight away without knowing someone on an intimate level first. This is why I can't do any of the gay romance. Cassandra is a very well done, I love tsundere character, and while she puts up a front, she's actually a hopeless romance on the inside. It's very cute and adorable. I have explained about other characters why I didn't like them.
Yeah it's too bad my favorite m/m romance, Kaidan's, is really just a redone hetero romance. That's probably why it avoids all of the gay male romance tropes whereas most other Bioware m/m romances involve them to some degree. Dorian's just happens to be the most blatant.
Yeah it's too bad my favorite m/m romance, Kaidan's, is really just a redone hetero romance. That's probably why it avoids all of the gay male romance tropes whereas most other Bioware m/m romances involve them to some degree. Dorian's just happens to be the most blatant.
Not only a redone, it was a badly redone with scenes cutting out, animation cutting out, and dialogues cutting out. I was glad they got a new team for ME, I'd say good ridden. Beth's first try has already included much better options I could hope for in game than Bioware for several of their games. I'm just hoping for the best with the next ME game since it's basically a clean slate with new people and new universe.
Okay thanks. Interesting. I would agree that Cass is probably the most popular romance, followed by Solas, if going by these boards. And IB is one of the least popular, so it's interesting that you listed him. I guess if your qualifications are producing romances unlike previous romances in Bio games or any other video game, it makes sense. I personally don't like the lack of agency the PC has in it and that Bull dictates everything. But in a BDSM context that makes sense.
I think Cass is probably my favorite romance. First, because she is one of the few companions who feels plot important, similar to Alistair/Morrigan and Anders/Isabela. Not that being plot important makes a romance better than the others (Leliana was my fave DAO romance), but it helps to provide context for the romance within the story, rather than being able to separate the romance from the game and still have it function the same way. I could pull Leli and Zevran's romances from the context of the Blight and they would still work. Less so for Alistair or Morrigan.
Also, she is just one of the best written characters in DAI, if not the best. She is a realistic, fully rounded person, and her inner conflict with faith and duty resonates with the major themes of the game. And it's refreshing to have a devout religious person be open minded and rational about her faith rather than a bigot or dangerous zealot, which is common in games. She is one of the most "good" characters I can think of in the DA universe, and having her as a friend or lover gives my PCs hope for Thedas.
It would have been nice if a non-Divine Cass could have married the PC. Maybe with more development time that could have happened, but if they only had time for two romances to end in marriage, it makes sense not to include her since she has diverging outcomes.
Yeah, my criteria for what's "good" Would be something like,
Originality
Completeness (Solas, for instance, would be lacking here since he not only has no sex scene but also less content in general.)
Believability (anyone with magical/PC only bisexuality fail this for obvious reasons)
Relevance to the story/rest of the game (Cass and Solas would examples of this done well)
Content Equality (Doesn't have to be the same content, but the same quantity so you don't feel short changed for choosing this. Cullen and Josie have problems here due to lacking the last goodbye in trespasser, never being mentioned in banters at all, ect.)
General Appeal (Something designed specifically for a minority group that wouldn't be nearly as appealing to people outside the target audience would be an example of this done poorly, - although I think sometimes niche choices are good, because they can open people up to things they wouldn't have otherwise considered, and without this you pretty much couldn't have things like Iron Bull. But I do think it has it's limits.)
Obviously everybody is going to like what they like regardless of any of that which is great. But the criteria above is what made me say most DAI romances weren't good, because generally they all wouldn't pass very many of those. Then again, I suppose DA2 probably wouldn't either, so ultimately I guess you kind of have to find something you like and run with it. -shrug
I agree with everything you said about Cass though, she was really something else. I'd have probably wanted to romance her if I didn't hate the male Inquis voices so much and didn't love Freddie Prinz JR and Iron Bull so much. Which is quite the accomplishment because she's the first DA female I'd want to play a romance with, and only the second bioware female I'd want to play a romance with.
They definitely deserve many props for everything about her.
Not only a redone, it was a badly redone with scenes cutting out, animation cutting out, and dialogues cutting out. I was glad they got a new team for ME, I'd say good ridden. Beth's first try has already included much better options I could hope for in game than Bioware for several of their games. I'm just hoping for the best with the next ME game since it's basically a clean slate with new people and new universe.
What was cut out? I've only ever seen/heard about the heterosexual one so I wouldn't know, but I saw you mention that before so I'm curious now. It's weird, come to think of it I don't think I even see M/M Kaidan mentioned like... Anywhere outside of Pinterest.
The romances never really bothered me, but to be honest, having hetero male options be a scarred-faced amazon in her 40s and a Disney Princess was not a bright idea from a marketing perspective. Bioware set themselves up for the butthurt for the vocal minority on that one. And on the other side, hetero women can get race-gated unless they are running elves.
It is one of those odd design choices that just kind of piles up as you go along through the game.
Kaidan's butt staring is female exclusive. During the dinner date, he only places femShep's hand on his face. The romance scene also cut short and dialogues are generally shorter, only femShep can get on top of Kaidan. During Citadel, they don't have the couple animation like with femShep. Everything in his romance got cut short in comparison to femShep.
Kaidan's butt staring is female exclusive. During the dinner date, he only places femShep's hand on his face. The romance scene also cut short and dialogues are generally shorter, only femShep can get on top of Kaidan. During Citadel, they don't have the couple animation like with femShep. Everything in his romance got cut short in comparison to maleShep.
Wow that sounds absolutely awful. Makes me glad I never considered M/M Kaidan anything beyond bad fan fiction.
I wish they would do a gay romance like his though with a man like him. He and his story are so sweet, I imagine a M/M romance like that would be lovely.
In practice, does this really matter? A player can get Power from doing the main area questline, or from closing a few rifts, or from miscellaneous stuff, and by the time you get out of the Hinterlands you know how stuff works. I don't see the advantage in forcing one approach over the others. If players can't be trusted to manage their own experience, then the entire design approach is flawed.I'm really surprised that Bio made this a side quest rather than having the Warden ally holed up in some cave on the far side of the lake, and we had to close the rift in order to reach him. The main questline feels like they were conscious of how large the DAI world is, so they wanted to provide the bare bones route to complete the main plot so people wouldn't complain about having to do too much side content to finish the game. Fair enough, although the power points made that necessary, anyway. I find it strange that both Crestwood and Western Approach are maps that we have to visit to advance the plot, but we can really skip over all content in both of them, unlike in the Hinterlands. It would have been nice if we had had to complete some of the zone quests to advance the main plot.
Consensus is such a fantasy word,since every human being have different perspectives and thoughts of their own. Personally speaking tho,I think the game is a tiny bit too commercial compares to DAO and DA2. They need to bring the awesome story and characters back,not just graphics....at least the graphics is not what BioWare caught my heart with. Many legendary games such as Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Hitman has all fallen into that graphic trap,I hope BioWare never ever ever put all their focus on the graphics and forget about the story.
Completeness (Solas, for instance, would be lacking here since he not only has no sex scene but also less content in general.)
I sympathy with straight males to be honest, if that's what you wish to know.
I think Cas is beautiful, but I do realize that a lot of people will be turned off by the look. Would ahve romanced her, by my character and her aren't compatible (unwavering rebel mage). They in fact hate each other. My design gripe is that there is no real alternative to her. You could be a dick and pragmatic and drift towards Morrigan naturally in DAO, or drift towards Leli if you were passionate and considerate. Here, either you share Cas's politics and beliefs, or you kind of float off into no-man's land. There seems to be a gulf where another character should fit, but there isn't one. I'm sure it is the same for women when it comes to Cullen.
Joise, who I like, is there to catch players that fall through the cracks, but her Disney romance just seemed out of place.
In practice, does this really matter? A player can get Power from doing the main area questline, or from closing a few rifts, or from miscellaneous stuff, and by the time you get out of the Hinterlands you know how stuff works. I don't see the advantage in forcing one approach over the others. If players can't be trusted to manage their own experience, then the entire design approach is flawed.
Having said that, I'm not personally a fan of managing pacing and so forth myself. That's OOC thinking, and ideally I'd rather not do that at all in an RPG. But the design concept is what it is.
In my view, it's down to game design and project management. If the only requirement to advance the main plot is to accumulate enough power points, then the game has many methods of doing so: we can close rifts, establish camps, recruit agents, heck we can spam the requisition agent endlessly. This is evident in the vast array of minor quests available in the Hinterlands which allows us to move to VR early on and later to Redcliffe/Therinfall.
This means that a player can opt out of much of the substantial side content and just run around performing the identical tasks of setting up camp and closing rifts. We can avoid discovering how the Carta is hiring brigands to distract travelers from their operations in Valammar or closing the rift in Crestwood and discovering the mayor's past. That's fine if that's how a player wants to complete the game, though in that case I don't really know why someone purchased the game to begin with. BUT that also allows Bioware to fill maps with meaningless filler as a method of gaining power, and doesn't have to worry as much about creating solid side content.
I think this is why so much of the side content is very basic and has critics comparing it to MMO games. The content is very basic and mostly serves to provide us power points in the main quest. Yes, some of it also has lore in its journals and notes, but little to no character interaction. If we had less methods of gaining power in the game, the developers would have more resources to focus on the fewer but larger side quests. And hopefully they would try to make each quest as interesting as possible, since players wouldn't be able to spam power points quickly.
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