821 réponses à ce sujet

[ioannisdenton]

 

Why do you assume people who criticize the game haven't read the codex? I might be knee jerk reacting, but please tell me you don't think that people who have issues with the game are less intelligent and don't want to read the codices, and if we did, we would love the game. I've read the codices, I've enjoyed them. But I also read the codices in the first two games, and they were supplementary information, not the prime source of knowledge about the game world. The first two games had more interaction with people, not just picking up a note, reading it, going to a quest marker, and completing the quest. No dialogue the entire process.

No offence taken man. You are right though, i guessed you did not read the codeces. i was wrong. about the interaction i agree, redclif an otherwise gorgeous location simply does not have many interactions other than merchants, mages story quest, Connor and banter.
What i do think you are maybe harsh is that DaI is not that behind in interactions from other Da games. What really hurts DaI is the lack of cinematic camera for me.

Edit: i forgot in redcliff the Npcs correctamundo mentioned!
So yeah! redcliff had interactions!

[vbibbi]

Yes, you always chose to forget when you constantly cherry pick. But, yeah, how many interesting convos do you get outside of the main quest zones of DAO? Because that is how you treat DAI. In every zone you get to talk in cinematic view with Harding as well. Not memorable enough I guess. And in Redcliffe you "elegantly" "forgot" Hanley, Linnea, Clemence, Lysas, Eglantine and Talwyn.

 

But that is how it is done, DAI is not a copy of DAO.

I do not remember who Hanley, Lysas, Eglantine or Talwyn are. Clemence is the tranquil agent and Linnea is the pro-Tevinter mage, right? This shows just how unmemorable all of these NPCs are. Did any of them have dialogue options that change our interactions with them in a new playthrough? Did any of them have the reactivity I cited in my above post with the various ways quests could be completed?

 

You're right, though. Forgetting one NPC in the Western Approach completely invalidates my point of lack of NPCs in the zones and the ones who are there are not memorable. Thanks for putting me straight on that.

 

I don't get your take of me "elegantly" forgetting these...What does that even mean?

 

I also have never said anything about cinematic view and why that's better than what we have. I have been saying that the actual dialogues with NPCs has been lacking, regardless of the camera view. And if you are considering Orzammar, the Dalish camp, Redcliffe village, Denerim market as main quest zones rather than the hubs that launch us into the main quest zone, then our definitions are just different and we're not coming to an agreement.

 

We clearly have different opinions on what constitutes NPC interaction and content, so I'm dropping the argument. Nothing is going to be resolved.

[elrofrost]

It's a good game. Not a great game. And it won't last much longer on my HD. 

 

The combat is just ridiculous. The 8 slot limit is also ridiculous. 

 

The game plays like a MMO, but its single (the too many fetch quests) - I mean SWTOR is that way.

 

The many villain is just too shallow. Frankly, some of the side missions are more interesting to me. Also too base a villain on a DLC to a prior game is just BAD. And the final battle was easy mode, even on higher levels.

 

And I won't even get started on the lore with Solas.

 

The music, compared to other BW games, and FO4 is BORING. ME3 had stunning music. So does FO4 now. It really can make or break a game. DAI was -blah. The only good piece was the song at the end of Act 1.

 

What I did like was the drama with your charaters. That's the best part of the game. And worthy of a couple of play-throughs at least. I haven't played all the DLC's so I'll probably do one final run through. I wish there was a way to avoid running all the fetch quests and still get the xp.

 

Comparing to other games: I STILL play ME2 and 3, FO3 and NV (jury still out on 4 - a lot depends on the upcoming mods), and DAO. One more play though and DAI is gone. Actually I probably won't even do that. Just load up my last save and run the DLC's with that.

 

All-in-all, DAI wasn't a bad game. Just a decent game. I give it a 7.5 out of 10.

[correctamundo]

I do not remember who Hanley, Lysas, Eglantine or Talwyn are. Clemence is the tranquil agent and Linnea is the pro-Tevinter mage, right? This shows just how unmemorable all of these NPCs are. Did any of them have dialogue options that change our interactions with them in a new playthrough? Did any of them have the reactivity I cited in my above post with the various ways quests could be completed?

 

I don't get your take of me "elegantly" forgetting these...What does that even mean?

 

I also have never said anything about cinematic view and why that's better than what we have. I have been saying that the actual dialogues with NPCs has been lacking, regardless of the camera view. And if you are considering Orzammar, the Dalish camp, Redcliffe village, Denerim market as main quest zones rather than the hubs that launch us into the main quest zone, then our definitions are just different and we're not coming to an agreement.

 

We clearly have different opinions on what constitutes NPC interaction and content, so I'm dropping the argument. Nothing is going to be resolved.

 

Oh so that is the widely recognized definition of memorable then? That you remember them? They are there, they have branching dialogue, whether you like it or not.

 

[SoulRebel_1979]

It was decent, but unlike a lot of other people in this thread I purchased it for the MP as much as the SP.

 

SP: One play through was enough and nothing made me wanna start another play through or purchase any of the DLC. Overall just felt too grindy/mmo like for my tastes and I thought the story was probably Bioware's weakest to date. Plus I really thought the melee combat and enemy hitboxes were complete trash for the most part. Having to resort to cheat engine to hear ****** character banter was a bit of a let down. Thought the crafting aspect was pretty cool and being able to choose your race was quality stuff. I thought the graphics and locations were pretty solid. Loved the underground ruins and visuals. 6/10 

 

MP: Turned out to be pretty garbage after all. Unstable, buggy, garbage loot system. 4/10

[ioannisdenton]

Please, let's be civil!

[mgagne]

I really like DAI, not because it doesn't have any big flaws, but rather in spite of them. Large parts of the game don't work all that well for me, but those that do work make up for it enough that I like the whole. 

 

 

I agree with this sentiment.  Either you despise the game or you love it despite the flaws.

 

Personally what I appreciated the most was the whole conceit of being at the head of a large organization that affected the destiny of the continent for a time.  Sadly that good idea (mixing strategy with rpg) was misused through lack of focus.  You are supposed to be the Inquisitor - you shouldn't have to be hunting for quarries and logging stands - at least out of the Hinterlands.  The war table was another brilliant intuition that was underused; why not send some of the companions for those special missions that kept cropping up at the table while the Inki would lead the core missions tied to the central quest line?  We would have been able to experience several play styles in the same PT while still getting the banter.

 

Anyway we can belabor the point endlessly but the fact remains that I'm still playing it (5th playthrough) even though now I skip all the unnecessary fluff like the MMO inspired fetching & collecting

 

As for the next game my only wish is they don't get pi$$ed at all our criticisms and actually hear what we're saying in order to build from there.  Crestwood is probably the best zone when it comes to balance between exploration and focused story-telling.  So I hope there are mid size zones filled with relevant content and living NPCs (who remembers the small boy singing a ditty about Emperor Aemyr in Velen? - that sort of thing).

[vbibbi]

Oh so that is the widely recognized definition of memorable then? That you remember them?

...Yes.

 

adjective

1.

worth remembering; notable:

a memorable speech.

2.

easily remembered.

 

I honestly just can't anymore.

[correctamundo]

 

...Yes.

 

adjective

1.

worth remembering; notable:

a memorable speech.

2.

easily remembered.

 

I honestly just can't anymore.

 

 

Wow, you do have high opinion of yourself. Hate to bust your bubble but what may or may not be memorable to you, may or may not be to others. Still fact of the matter is that there are quite a few more NPCs with branching dialogue out there than you claimed.

[RayZ]

DAI is the worst game that bioware has ever produced with catastrophic side- quests. It literally couldn't have gotten any worse.

DA2 was a masterpiece compared to this ****** garbage, piece of **** game.

Let's just hope that ME: Andromeda doesn't end like this ****....

[AFA]

The codex and missions on the war table were very good, and seemed a lot more Dragon Age than anything you actually played in-game. 

 

DAI seemed obviously set towards:

 

1. Being the anti-Dragon Age 2 (getting rid of almost everything that game did right)

2. Getting that Skyrim money

[Guitar-Hero]

I wasn't in to it, specifically the MMO style approach to questing and still have yet to complete it. But i recognize that there are somethings that work better than the previous installments.

[Ariella]

DAI is the worst game that bioware has ever produced with catastrophic side- quests. It literally couldn't have gotten any worse.

DA2 was a masterpiece compared to this ****** garbage, piece of **** game.

Let's just hope that ME: Andromeda doesn't end like this ****....

Riiiiigghhtt....

They are called SIDE QUESTS for a reason. They aren't required. Any number of them have RP value, some are updated and slightly more logical versions of treasure chests (getting the carta coat in Hinterlands comes to mind). But none of them are needed.

It's been pointed out multiple times that DAO has sidequests that are just as bad or worse (love letters anyone? Or the recruitment which you can screw up if you don't pay attention and miss the guy in Lothering chantry?) Get the garnets, get the poison, rob this, pickpocket that.

It's the same thing.

[RayZ]

Riiiiigghhtt....

They are called SIDE QUESTS for a reason. They aren't required. Any number of them have RP value, some are updated and slightly more logical versions of treasure chests (getting the carta coat in Hinterlands comes to mind). But none of them are needed.

It's been pointed out multiple times that DAO has sidequests that are just as bad or worse (love letters anyone? Or the recruitment which you can screw up if you don't pay attention and miss the guy in Lothering chantry?) Get the garnets, get the poison, rob this, pickpocket that.

It's the same thing.

Hah come on... you dare to compare biowares masterpiece with this piece of ****? All side quests in DAO were better and far, far more immersive than in DAI. Please, stop lying to yourself. This game is an epic failure and you know it.

Edit: Nothing has been pointed out. The " recruitment which you can screw up if you don't pay attention" is exactly what I want from a game. That is what makes the game immersive, not the "bring me 10 X because I forgot to take them with me" bullshit. The side quests in this game don't even have cinematic sequences. It's just plain lazy and a bad excuse for bioware.

[Mykel54]

Unplayable on PC: terrible controls - worst console port i ever played.

 

Excellent cast of companions characters as usual - this is the best part of the game by far.

 

Average storyline: some good bits, most of it is feels rushed and short.

 

50% of the game are repetitive and pointless sidequests.

 

Crazy grind to craft or find schematics: boring MMO stuff

 

DLCs are overpriced except for Trespasser (only story dlc worth of mention).

 

Choices are mostly cosmetic: race, class, past choices = a cameo, etc. but the story remains the same. The old god baby choice is made meaningless.

All the stuff that is supposedly carried over is in the background so you don´t see it ingame. (ex. king of orzammar).

 

I give it a 5/10 and i´m being generous.

[Marshal Moriarty]

Its a strange situation we find ourselves in. Bioware seems to be trying to be more like Bethesda, and as of Fallout 4. Bethesda seems to be trying to be more like Bioware! Infuriating and unwelcome for fans of each series really.

 

But as someone who previously liked Bioware games and didn't really enjoy Bethesda games (I appreciated the huge worlds and exploration, but they were very shallow and cold in terms of depth IMO), I have to say Bethesda's movement in this regard has been by far the better one. Fallout 4 is by no means perfect, and compared to Obsidian's New Vegas, its a joke in terms of storytelling and roleplaying. But its at least heading in a direction that means something to me now, with a greater emphasis on companions, getting them involved in the main story, and just generally paying more attention to its main story at all. Bethesda still have a pretty lacklustre stable of writers, or at least are still coming around to the idea that putting in some effort on dialogue and making interesting quests can only benefit their games, instead of just relying on sheer volume of content.

 

Meanwhile, Bioware seem to be heading in the opposite direction, making their games colder, more abstract, taking focus away from substantial and in depth content for its characters and quests. All in service of making a large, pretty, but sadly unengaging open world, and drowning players in endless trivial quests with no substance to them. I'm not saying Bethesda are knocking it out of the park or outstripping BW yet (Bethesda are coming from a really, really long way back in the field on this), but the direction of travel has changed now. Bioware are stepping back, Bethesda are stepping up.

 

And as others have said, it remains a disastrous shame that Bioware rowed back and ran from so much of what they did right in Dragon Age 2. For all its low dev time and budget, recycled environs etc, DA2 remains the only truly significant and positive evolution of their tired old forumla that we've seen in many a long year. Their other games may have greater production values, but they were just trading on past glories, and Inquisition is simply trying to cash in on what has made big money for other companies, creating some unholy hybrid that does nothing well IMO.

 

To be clear, Bethesda are terrible storytellers and their games have righly been described as having 'The breadth of an ocean, with the depth of a puddle'. So to even be in a position where they are worthy speaking about (or more accurately, approaching a day when they will be) in comparison to Bioware on these issues, is depressing and terrifying.

[AlanC9]

Hah come on... you dare to compare biowares masterpiece with this piece of ****? All side quests in DAO were better and far, far more immersive than in DAI. Please, stop lying to yourself. This game is an epic failure and you know it.

All sidequests? Collecting corpse gall, lyrium potions, health poultices? Those are better? Travel to a tiny map and kill everything on it is better? All the DA:O mindless combat slogs are better?

Dude, I was playing DA:O last night. It 's crammed with filler. The difference is that a lot of DA:O's filler is harder to skip.

[RoboticWater]

All sidequests? Collecting corpse gall, lyrium potions, health poultices? Those are better? Travel to a tiny map and kill everything on it is better? All the DA:O mindless combat slogs are better?

Dud, I was playing DA:O last night. It 's crammed with filler. The difference is that a lot of DA:O's filler is harder to skip.

In DA:O's defense, the many of the filler quests could be obtained and completed in clusters (chanter's board, mage's sack, etc.), dealt with nearby, or done during a random encounter on the way to an ulterior objective. And maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I feel like more of DA:O's sidequests could be completed by just being attentive and picking up an extra few things during main missions (like corpse gall at Redcliffe). I think it helps that DA:O is just a smaller game that requires far less back and forth to complete quests. Coupled with an annoyingly slow loot animation and ambient combat encounters that, IMO, only seemed to block my progress and make the combat seem eve more repetitive, DA:I's quest system just comes off as worse.

 

So much of game design is presentation, and I think DA:I just has so many problems-major, minor, and seemingly unrelated to each other-that many players' motivations get chipped away until there's nothing left. I can't give you exact numbers about when and why, but I just got tired playing DA:I (and this was with the loot animation remover mod). The veil of magic created by this game's characters and visuals just came apart (pun probably intended), and I just felt bored doing anything. It took a b-line through the main quests and the Trespasser DLC to arouse my excitement for this series again.

 

And even if DA:O isn't technically better with sidequests (it certainly isn't), that's not really a good excuse for DA:I. BioWare is a seasoned developer; they should be honing their craft, not spreading themselves thin and using a larger scope as an excuse. 

[AlanC9]

In DA:O's defense, the many of the filler quests could be obtained and completed in clusters (chanter's board, mage's sack, etc.), dealt with nearby, or done during a random encounter on the way to an ulterior objective. And maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I feel like more of DA:O's sidequests could be completed by just being attentive and picking up an extra few things during main missions (like corpse gall at Redcliffe).

I agree, but these things are true of many DA:I quests too.

And DA:O was full of combat encounters whose only function is to stretch out the mission. I'm not saying that's a real problem, though, since it's true of pretty much every CRPG ever.
 

And even if DA:O isn't technically better with sidequests (it certainly isn't), that's not really a good excuse for DA:I. BioWare is a seasoned developer; they should be honing their craft, not spreading themselves thin and using a larger scope as an excuse.

I can see that, although I liked DA:I a lot more than you did. Really, I'm just posting here to stamp out the crazy nonsense so we can talk sensibly about the design issues.

[Qis]

Most DA:O side quests don't feels like side quests, because we end up doing them anyway, it just along the way, in fact not doing them feels incomplete.

 

Going to Mage Tower, you meet with Mage Collective, just accpet all quests, you don't have to do it right away, you may finished the main quest there, then head to Ostagar, you found the Mage apprentice of your side quest, talk to him, then continue your main quest in Ostagar...then going to other places, when the particular side quest complete, just talk to any Mage Collective rpresentative, gain rewards. Doing the quests is a bonus.

 

Same with Chanter Board, you accept a quest to save refugee, you don't have to do it right away, if you're at Redcliffe, you may hold it until you are planing to go to Denerim, save the refugees along the way...at Denerim, collect reward at the sister there...

 

By mean, side quests don't feel like side quests, that's what i like about DA:O quests

 

But since DA2, there is no longer "...by the way/before i forget, i am going to do this...."

[Andraste_Reborn]

You know, one thing that confuses me about the side quest discussion is why people always seem to use Origins as the exemplar. In my opinion, it's DA2 that has the most interesting side quests in the series. I mean, sure, there are the ones you have to randomly return someone's hat or kill roving gangs, but stuff like Magistrate's Orders, Night Terrors, and the majority of the companion quests is more interesting than anything in DAO or DAI. And killing street gangs and returning junk is still less boring than picking up corpse gall or trying to remember which merchants you sold all your garnet to.

 

I don't mind the side quests in DAI, since their main purpose is to encourage exploring, which I enjoy. If they could somehow magically combine the exploration of DAI, the deeper side content of DA2 and the better-developed main plot of DAO, that would be perfect.

[correctamundo]

Most DA:O side quests don't feels like side quests, because we end up doing them anyway, it just along the way, in fact not doing them feels incomplete.

 

Going to Mage Tower, you meet with Mage Collective, just accpet all quests, you don't have to do it right away, you may finished the main quest there, then head to Ostagar, you found the Mage apprentice of your side quest, talk to him, then continue your main quest in Ostagar...then going to other places, when the particular side quest complete, just talk to any Mage Collective rpresentative, gain rewards. Doing the quests is a bonus.

 

Same with Chanter Board, you accept a quest to save refugee, you don't have to do it right away, if you're at Redcliffe, you may hold it until you are planing to go to Denerim, save the refugees along the way...at Denerim, collect reward at the sister there...

 

By mean, side quests don't feel like side quests, that's what i like about DA:O quests

 

Since DA2 there is no longer "...by the way/before i forget, i am going to do this...."

 

What you are describing here is the DAI situation.

[correctamundo]

You know, one thing that confuses me about the side quest discussion is why people always seem to use Origins as the exemplar. In my opinion, it's DA2 that has the most interesting side quests in the series. I mean, sure, there are the ones you have to randomly return someone's hat or kill roving gangs, but stuff like Magistrate's Orders, Night Terrors, and the majority of the companion quests is more interesting than anything in DAO or DAI. And killing street gangs and returning junk is still less boring than picking up corpse gall or trying to remember which merchants you sold all your garnet to.

 

I don't mind the side quests in DAI, since their main purpose is to encourage exploring, which I enjoy. If they could somehow magically combine the exploration of DAI, the deeper side content of DA2 and the better-developed main plot of DAO, that would be perfect.

 

Well I agree. And going forward build on that structure.There is just so many more quests in total in DAI. There are lots of corpse gall and elfroot quests, but there are also Night terrors etc. Like Lost souls, Crestwood, Draconology, Take back the Emprise etc.

[Qis]

In DA:O you may choose when to do all those stuff...like me, if i am going to Redcliffe first after Ostagar, after the Chanter Board show up, i pick all quests available, i planned to go to Denerim but i am still low level, i feel i can't beat all those darkspawns, i just pass all those markers along the way untill i level up and having some gears...i can pretend i don't meet those refugees on my travel.

 

The Elfroots and Deep Mushroom side quest is just a free gold, don't really need to search for them, merchants sell them, or found them on loot, i completed the Deep Mushroom without searching for it as soon as leaving Lothering and meet Mage Collective at Mage Tower. Because Ostagar merchant sell them. it is something i don't have to pursue. The same with venoms, Brecilian Forest have them, just buy 15. Or buy venoms at Ostagar, kill some Spiders at Lothering, the quest completed as soon as get it.

 

The stones, just wait the loots, no need to search for the stones.

[Madrict]

I absolutely love DAI, it has a great story, graphics, gameplay and characters. The Trespasser DLC really ends it well. Fantastic game imo!