143 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

Can we have a straight out villains in this game. I feel like ME series tries to justify too much on why the bad guys are bad guys. The feth we fought turned out not to be evil, but the bad guys are actually the quarian, the reapers are just wanting to preserve the species and prevent extinction of all life, the illusive man's goal is just to control the reaper to save the world. Can we just have same pure evil characters for the lulz? 

[wolfsite]

Main issue with being evil for the sake of being evil is that people would just whine that it's lazy writing if the villain has no "true" motivation.

[Kalas Magnus]

a lot of people complained about this.

they called harbinger a saturday morning cartoon villain or something lie that.

[Battlebloodmage]

Main issue with being evil for the sake of being evil is that people would just whine that it's lazy writing if the villain has no "true" motivation.

Is joker a bad villain? He's complex in his own rights and a fan favorite among many people, and he's arguably the most iconic Batman's villains. It's just how you present a character. Another character like Kotomine Kirei from Fate Stay Night is also fit into this theme. He's not psychotically evil like Joker, but he also doesn't have any noble purpose. 

Harbringer is just very cartoonish and caricature. It's just not a good character in general, and I don't think people could that Harbringer seriously regardless of whether it has depth or not.

[sortiv]

So let's take that quote from Dark Knight that you used, but in context. Alfred tells Bruce Wayne about a jewel thief in Burma that had been stealing rubies and then simply throwing them away. Alfred characterizes his actions as chaotic, meaningless. But I always took it as the work of an anti-establishment freedom fighter, taking from the rich and giving to no one. Certainly not a good character, since it's still wrong to steal, but still probably someone with an angle of some sort. 

 

People calling themselves good guys tend to try and flatten out "bad guys" into one dimensional caricatures (notice how the way the quarians painted the geth wasn't the whole story?). Good fiction shows us the flaws of both. 

[Oldren Shepard]

You can used a person like this...

http://forum.bioware...t-content/?st=0

 

"Strangers don’t have to understand my reasons for them to be valid."

 

but i prefer the kind of people (for villains) that behind those awful things they made or are planning to make there is a greater purpose, to see something you could "understand", to see some logic to their acts.

 

For the title "Watch the world burn" Jack White had a logic behind he's acts, in the real world both ferries would exploited

[CYRAX470]

Yeah after the Reapers I'm hoping for some good old malevolent beings fueld by hate or some other very unjust motivations.

I'd also take a truly alien race that just does what they do to live, but it's just so destructive and invasive. Like the ELS from Gundam 00.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah after the Reapers I'm hoping for some good old malevolent beings fueld by hate or some other very unethical means.

I'd also take a truly alien race that just does what they do to live, but it's just so destructive and invasive. Like the ELS from Gundam 00.

 

Or like the Omega/mimics. 

[In Exile]

Yeah after the Reapers I'm hoping for some good old malevolent beings fueld by hate or some other very unjust motivations.

I'd also take a truly alien race that just does what they do to live, but it's just so destructive and invasive. Like the ELS from Gundam 00.

The reapers were malevolent beings fueled by hate. The fact that they got a really stupid reason for committing a genocide so awful and so horrible, with methods so monstrous they were almost impossible to comprehend, doesn't really get washed away just because they have a reason for it beyond "we love causing pain."

[afgncaap7]

Kai Leng was pure evil and he was about as interesting as what I left in the toilet last night.

[Eelectrica]

I'd kind of want a little more from a villain than some group who wants to just blow up planets because it's fun... or perhaps not. Blowing up a planet would make for one hell of a fireworks display and could be as good reason as any to keep blowing stuff up.

[Synthetic Turian]

The best villians to me, don't want to rule the world or galaxy, but only destroy it. And the even greater villians, are more than willing to kill even themselves to make it a reality.

[AlanC9]

The best villians to me, don't want to rule the world or galaxy, but only destroy it. And the even greater villians, are more than willing to kill even themselves to make it a reality.

Sounds awfully lame. Can you give an example?

I can put up with this sort of thing in fantasy worlds which have everything running on mumbo-jumbo anyway, but I don't see how it works in SF.

[Lady Artifice]

"For the Evulz" is a pretty common motivation as well, though. I'd personally prefer an ambitious chess master type with a connection to the protagonist. 

[Eelectrica]

It'll probably be that the Remnants want to rebuild their civilization. We turn up to to colonize and rebuild our civilization.

 

Natives screwed either way, except we won't burn the natives villages and  steal the coconuts like those evil remnants do.

[AresKeith]

Kai Leng was pure evil and he was about as interesting as what I left in the toilet last night.

 

But Kai Leng was poorly written, a pure evil character can be really good heh
 

[CYRAX470]

It'll probably be that the Remnants want to rebuild their civilization. We turn up to to colonize and rebuild our civilization.

Wouldn't mind that.

"This galaxy isn't big enough for both our civilizations, and we were here first. Get out".

Hell, maybe even have the Khet become allies in sequels try and fight the resurgent Remnant.

[Synthetic Turian]

Sounds awfully lame. Can you give an example?

I can put up with this sort of thing in fantasy worlds which have everything running on mumbo-jumbo anyway, but I don't see how it works in SF.

 

 

Suicidal villains, who want it all to end, are much more interesting to me that those who wish tor rule or obtain wealth.

[KotorEffect3]

A completely ruthless villain is a very easy villain to hate because they will stop at nothing to get what they want and they will show no mercy.  As a player it is always good to have the motivation to completely stamp out your enemy.  Not every villain needs to be "complex" or "deep".  The joker example is a perfect example of this.  The joker is considered one of the greatest villains in all of fiction but ultimately there is nothing complicated or "deep" about the guy.  He just embraces chaos for the sake of chaos.

[AlanC9]

 
Suicidal villains, who want it all to end, are much more interesting to me that those who wish tor rule or obtain wealth.

How come?

[Lady Artifice]

I don't know about suicidal villains being more interesting, but they might be funnier. 

 

[Synthetic Turian]

How come?

 

Because they have no regard for anything except the end of everything, including themselves. It takes the thought of what it means to be "evil" and maxes it out to it's most extreme. A single goal of the end of everything and everyone; the villain's enemies, allies, minions etc...all ceasing to exist. The nonsensical corruption of a villain that insane is actually a rare find, and is something I highly admire.

 

Mind you, I admire the "good hero" more, but, I digress.

[wolfhowwl]

Would that be like Kefka from Final Fantasy?

[Killroy]

The problem with "for teh lulz evul" villains is that there's almost never a good reason for them to be doing what they're doing. Genuinely evil people have almost no drive or ambition, aside from a few exceptions(H.H. Holmes comes to mind). Once you give the villain motivations and goals you have to give them dimension, and that means "pure evil" is out the window. The Joker only works because he's a foil to Batman in every way and his motivation is being Batman's foil. If there were no Batman there would be no Joker. That doesn't work for Mass Effect. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Main issue with being evil for the sake of being evil is that people would just whine that it's lazy writing if the villain has no "true" motivation.

I certainly would.

 

That's why I hated The Dark Knight.  Characters whose motives I don't understand are uninteresting characters, and a villain is typically a fairly major character.

 

I would much rather question whether the bad guy was actually bad than have him simply be labelled as bad and leave it at that (and even then, I'd probably question the label).