143 réponses à ce sujet

[Synthetic Turian]

So it's... just something you like? OK. I guess there's not much else to say about this.

 

Pretty much.

[Quarian Master Race]

Joker is a dumb villain whose cod philosophy makes no damned sense, and he could be easily defeated if Batman weren't such a pacifist wuss, or even if Arkham Asylum didn't have a more laughable security regime than the average suburban force of mall cops. Kai Lame was a better, more believable villain than that guy, despite being ripped straight from the terrible anime playbook.

I'd rather not have one dimensional villains that simply serve to incite laughter.

[Ahglock]

Joker is a dumb villain whose cod philosophy makes no damned sense, and he could be easily defeated if Batman weren't such a pacifist wuss, or even if Arkham Asylum didn't have a more laughable security regime than the average suburban force of mall cops. Kai Lame was a better, more believable villain than that guy, despite being ripped straight from the terrible anime playbook.

I'd rather not have one dimensional villains that simply serve to incite laughter.

When the dimension you found is the dimension of pure awesome why would you need more than one.

[Killroy]

That's just it, there isn't any benefit or motive. Only sheer madness, but with an underlying purpose: To end everything and everyone.

 

Far more dangerous that your: I'm evil, here look at me, my goals and ambitions (villain).

 

The type of villain I have in mind? Would kill another villain just because they can, and why not? Just because they are both evil doesn't mean they should share in anything.
 

Love it.

 

This villain you want is a cartoon character, better suited for Captain Planet than Mass Effect. 

[DanishViking]

Some Girls just want to watch the world burn

[KaiserShep]

This villain you want is a cartoon character, better suited for Captain Planet than Mass Effect.

You bite your filthy fingers! Hoggish Greedly was more multifaceted than the gorram d20 system.

[Synthetic Turian]

This villain you want is a cartoon character, better suited for Captain Planet than Mass Effect. 

 

Perhaps.

[FlyingSquirrel]

A completely ruthless villain is a very easy villain to hate because they will stop at nothing to get what they want and they will show no mercy.  As a player it is always good to have the motivation to completely stamp out your enemy.  Not every villain needs to be "complex" or "deep".  The joker example is a perfect example of this.  The joker is considered one of the greatest villains in all of fiction but ultimately there is nothing complicated or "deep" about the guy.  He just embraces chaos for the sake of chaos.

 

True, but the Joker was also using and manipulating other elements, such as organized crime, that would have existed with or without him in the picture. I don't think he could drive a narrative all by himself - there have to be other, secondary villains for a character like him to exploit, or else he wouldn't get very far.

 

If the antagonist is going to be purely malevolent and irredeemable, I'd prefer it to be something along the lines of an automated, non-sentient process that got out of control somehow rather than actual sapient beings that are just being evil for the lulz.

[Ahglock]

You bite your filthy fingers! Hoggish Greedly was more multifaceted than the gorram d20 system.

Not saying much. Jk. Outside the god awful saves in d20 it wasn't bad.

[agonis]

That's just it, there isn't any benefit or motive. Only sheer madness, but with an underlying purpose: To end everything and everyone.

 

Far more dangerous that your: I'm evil, here look at me, my goals and ambitions (villain).

 

The type of villain I have in mind? Would kill another villain just because they can, and why not? Just because they are both evil doesn't mean they should share in anything.
 

Love it.

 

It´s pretty hard to be this kind of villian.

 

Finding followers to help you becomes difficult if your only goal is the destruction of everyone and everything. Most people are sane enough to recognise this as a very bad idea (if they are not fanatics)

 

I played a villian with such goals once (and it was fun!). And it was only possible because he was completely misguided and failed to realise that his thirst for power would lead to utter destruction. His followers were fanatics, that helped.

[Synthetic Turian]

It´s pretty hard to be this kind of villian.

 

Finding followers to help you becomes difficult if your only goal is the destruction of everyone and everything. Most people are sane enough to recognise this as a very bad idea (if they are not fanatics)

 

I played a villian with such goals once (and it was fun!). And it was only possible because he was completely misguided and failed to realise that his thirst for power would lead to utter destruction. His followers were fanatics, that helped.

 

Obtaining followers would usually involve a form of deception. A continual strategic campaign towards the promised of unlimited pleasures and security.

 

Or

 

They would have to be just as corrupt and insane as their leader.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd also take a truly alien race that just does what they do to live, but it's just so destructive and invasive. Like the ELS from Gundam 00.

I would love to see Bioware attempt something like the ELS. They were just looking for a new home and wanted to understand us, but they way they did so wasn't compatible with how we can and thus seen as an attack, leading to the fighting between both sides.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah after the Reapers I'm hoping for some good old malevolent beings fueld by hate or some other very unjust motivations.

I'd also take a truly alien race that just does what they do to live, but it's just so destructive and invasive. Like the ELS from Gundam 00.

 

I knew my blasphemy radar was going off for a reason.

 

Some one mentioned a Gundam Franchise series that isn't UC.

[agonis]

Obtaining followers would usually involve a form of deception. A continual strategic campaign towards the promised of unlimited pleasures and security.

 

Or

 

They would have to be just as corrupt and insane as their leader.

 

Preferably both. Minus the insanity. Insane people are difficult to steer and are always up to unpleasant surprises.

 

It´s far easier to get those who are already corrupted. If someone is hungry for power, the best thing to do is to offer it to them.

It doesn´t even have to be the real thing. A promise is often sufficient.

 

Deception is the beginning. Addiction and dependancy is the end.

Some people are not able to change their ways even if they realise what will happen.

[Master Warder Z_]

To the point now that Gundam is temporary off the table.

 

These 'lulz' evil types aren't anything new, fresh or interesting. They are the stereotypical bandit, death cultist, terrorist. They are not the people who strive towards set goals, with dedication, conviction and belief for decade after decade, these are not the leaders of state, these are not commanders of guilds or organizations. Such things are the antithesis to what they are, these are common thugs who kill for the sake of killing, they have no goal, ambition or drive beyond that.

 

These are not the men who craft empires or enterprises. They plant bombs and kill as many people as they can before the PC shoots them in the throat.

 

In short? Maybe for a side mission mini boss, not for a primary antagonist though.

 

 

[Master Warder Z_]

I would love to see Bioware attempt something like the ELS. They were just looking for a new home and wanted to understand us, but they way they did so wasn't compatible with how we can and thus seen as an attack, leading to the fighting between both sides.

 

They were a bunch of freaky aliens who made a bad series worse.

 

In short? Nuclear fire is the appropriate response.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They were a bunch of freaky aliens who made a bad series worse.

 

In short? Nuclear fire is the appropriate response.

Aliens should be freaky to us. That's what the term alien means. Any actual aliens will seem freaky to us. 

And I and a lot of people think that was the best Gundam series, so let's agree to disagree. 

[Master Warder Z_]

And I and a lot of people think that was the best Gundam series, so let's agree to disagree. 

 

When most of these fine folk have no idea of the majesty of the original Gundam story line, their ignorance does me no offense my friend.

 

Indeed, at best its just  another fault among many of this generation, buying into the shoddy rip off instead of the original.

 

 

^.^

 

I for one view the fellow on the statue as the greatest and most iconic Gundam Antagonist, and a fellow Bioware would doing very well to emulate.

[CYRAX470]

Aliens should be freaky to us. That's what the term alien means. Any actual aliens will seem freaky to us. 

And I and a lot of people think that was the best Gundam series, so let's agree to disagree. 

Yeah I loved 00, the ending to the series was slightly off to me. But for the most part I loved it.

 

I'd really love to see Andromeda introduce a race like the Rachni to fight. Different motivations, but same type of aesthetic. Anyway, while I do prefer, and hope or more malicious hateful beings in Andromeda. I will say that it wouldn't be an absolutely necessity. I'd just prefer not to revisit goals like the Reapers again.

[Master Warder Z_]

A ideal antagonist needs to be formulated for the protagonists.

 

 

For every Kirk there must be a Khan...so to speak.

[Battlebloodmage]

The reapers were malevolent beings fueled by hate. The fact that they got a really stupid reason for committing a genocide so awful and so horrible, with methods so monstrous they were almost impossible to comprehend, doesn't really get washed away just because they have a reason for it beyond "we love causing pain."

Open season for hunting is evil? It reduces the population and it can actually help the the deer as well as overall ecosystem. Reapers could also see as predators.

 

As it stands though, most of these games nowadays have justified villains, the pure villains are actually lessening.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

When most of these fine folk have no idea of the majesty of the original Gundam story line, their ignorance does me no offense my friend.

 

Indeed, at best its just  another fault among many of this generation, buying into the shoddy rip off instead of the original.

Oh, I love the original as well. I love all the series and the Mobile Suit Gundam franchise is my favorite anime franchise. And yeah, Bioware can learn things from them when it comes to storytelling and characters. 

[Battlebloodmage]

We're arguing for more one dimensional villains now?

 

It's stupid to say evil villains are one dimensional. It's contrived to assume just because the villain has a softer side means they're three dimensional. If you break it down, most of the villains are very formulaic. Depending on how you write it, the evil characters can actually be three dimensional. It's more common in Japanese style of storytelling when making three dimensional evil characters.  

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh, I love the original as well. I love all the series and the Mobile Suit Gundam franchise is my favorite anime franchise. And yeah, Bioware can learn things from them when it comes to storytelling and characters.

Gihren Zabi

[Laughing_Man]

One thing is for sure, the Bioware formula of mind-controlled villains is getting old.

(why do they deserve their excuse on a silver platter?)

 

I don't think that writing a good villain requires him to have a sympathtic side, you can always ramp up the horror to eleven

and go full Cthulu with him.

 

A creepy and terrifying villain will hold the attention of players much better than one with daddy issues.

(and no, the Reapers were not space Cthulu, not really)

 

A villain that manages to invoke a real sense of danger and outrage in the player, a villain that the player truly wants to kill.

The kind of villain that dispatching him will provide a real sense of relief and satisfaction.