123 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My top 10:

1. Kelly Chambers

2. Legion

3. Tali'Zorah vas Normandy

4. Garrus Vakarian

5. Samantha Traynor

6. Urdnot Grunt

7. Kasumi Goto

8. James Vega

9. Gabriella Daniels

10. Steve Cortez

[DeathScepter]

In no order

 

my Shepard - the one in my signature

Miranda

Harbinger

Samantha

Ashley

Zaeed

Rupert Gardner

Conrad

TIM

space hamster

 

 

good list. 

[Lady Artifice]

Mordin is selfish, calculating, and rugged. His apoliticism makes him sort of a contributor to quasi-evil causes. I'm getting pretty hungry I need some pizza or something, so I could go into more detail but can't really, but he's the equivalent of the Nazi scientist who wasn't actually a fan or proponent of Nazi ideology, but due to his own programmatic and highly controlled ways of thinking and need for stability, can often become beholden to them.

 

Constructing the genophage versus implementing the genophage, I mean, ok, rather than a Nazi paralell you could argue he was like Robert Oppenheimer or something, someone who again wasn't political or avidly engaged in certain causes, but through his own desire to escape everything and everyone and turn everything into the language of chemistry and equations, ultimately ended up serving a highly politicized and amoral cause (the atomic bombings of Hiroshima etc)

 

You could maybe argue it's a tragic character, the person who was just a pure hearted student of science, manipulated by the greater forces, but the reality is I have (and had) at least a few extended familiy members who fit the hapless scientist mold to the bone, and the reality is they were capable of tremendous cruelty in their personal interactions and (contrary to the notion of brilliant scientist, or arguably even as a direct consequence of that notion) great stupidity, and so ultimately I am not inclined to view that as some myth making and not grant them a great deal of leniency.

 

It's something various societies around the globe tend to worship in varying fashion, the go it alone solitary scientist who has all the answers to all the questions, who is objectively free of tainted politicism, but all those people who prop up that myth really do is plant the seed of destruction, for then it becomes clear that all that isolation from reality and building up their own personal hero myth has birthed nothing but intense fragility and hyper-submission to other's opinions. (And at least one of those extended family members died in a most slow and agonizingly horrible way possible as it became clear mid life his life was.. well... a bit messy)

 

You can see a sort of paralell in Mordin, he ultimately ends up basically having to sacrifice himself to solve his own problems. That is not a hero, that is a screw up who is nonetheless at least partially capable of seeing and responding to his own screw-upness. A person doesn't really get credit for solving problems they created in the first place. At best, they do solve their own problems in a way, at worst they try and force the world or others to view their state of fragility as heroic and powerful, and which, predictably, leads to even more problems.

 

The reality is that we don't really have a choice about facing thorny moral questions, we all must simply answer them as best we can. If one cannot give their own answer, then a default or someone else's answer will be given, and the default, much like the default result in other areas of the universe, is usually not all that good.

 

Hm well that got quite long, I guess I didn't need the pizza so badly... definitely going to need that or soda or something soon though.

 

Well one more thing, to get it back to the topic. As I was saying, Tali demonstrates that sublime control tendencies and humanity are not mutually exclusive. The Quarian's relationship with the geth is a symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship, even though obviously it is far from perfect. Rather than haplessly become a scientist as part of a geth extermination battalion, she is devoted in heart and mind to the process of relating to and grasping with the essence of the problem on her own terms. Consequently, she is better able to formulate her own opinion and stance in contrast to the others who would push and prod her into more extremist ideologies (various Quarian admirals, commanders, leaders, etc)

 

She was, to again use an analogy, Marie Curie, someone who did not let her place of birth or original understanding of self cloud her ability to assess and interpret outside information, which in her particular case meant becoming more familiar with the country of Poland and her relationships with it, and which enhanced and aided her sympathies and understandings of, the outbreak of WWI.

 

Arguably, putting aside the issue of the atomic bomb entirely, she was just a much better scientist too while we're at it, Oppenheimer was fast and productive but he was also very derivative in almost every aspect of his work, whereas Curie ran successfully rough-shod over established doctrine at nearly every turn.

 

It's not as though Tali and Mordin are even chasms apart though either, necessarily, (although at least one big chasm for sure) it's simply that she has the presence of mind to define her own framework and ability to solve issues, and whatever her ability is in that respect, she is entitled to precisely that level of greater self-power.

 

Kay soda or something now soon good grapes, I just got going there I guess.

 

No, he's nothing like a Nazi. He's definitely calculating, but every single major decision he took over the course of the trilogy involved putting himself in danger to protect others. 

[Andrew Lucas]

(snip)

Whoah m8, are you sure you're okay?

[o Ventus]

No

 

You honestly could have just left it at this and dropped the mic right then and there on him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, he's nothing like a Nazi. He's definitely calculating, but every single major decision he took over the course of the trilogy involved putting himself in danger to protect others. 

I think they were referring to Wernher von Braun, the father of space flight. Despite having negative to ambivalent feelings about the regime and its policies, he had to join the Nazi Party to continue his research, 

[Seraphim24]

I think they were referring to Wernher von Braun, the father of space flight. Despite having negative to ambivalent feelings about the regime and its policies, he had to join the Nazi Party to continue his research, 

 

Party correct, changed the analogy slightly midway to say Mordin was like J. Robert Oppenheimer

 

https://en.wikipedia...ert_Oppenheimer

 

But Wernher von Braun is a good example as well, maybe even a better one.

 

My point was to think of just someone who sought to escape politics and ended up very political as a consequence (in Oppenheimer's case, he helped build the atomic bomb which was then used in various massacres, despite having no desire to follow politics.) The reality is that likely happened in more instances than with just famous people.

 

And then I said Tali was like Marie Curie, one whose life experiences informed her positions.

 

Edit: Oh and nice to see someone else voting for Traynor.

[SardaukarElite]

Mordin is selfish, calculating, and rugged. His apoliticism makes him sort of a contributor to quasi-evil causes. I'm getting pretty hungry I need some pizza or something, so I could go into more detail but can't really, but he's the equivalent of the Nazi scientist who wasn't actually a fan or proponent of Nazi ideology, but due to his own programmatic and highly controlled ways of thinking and need for stability, can often become beholden to them.

 

Except that Mordin believes in the causes he works towards completely. He argues for why he felt the genophage was necessary at the time and still thinks it was probably the right decision. He then works in Omega because he wanted to stabilize the region. He joins Shepard because he believes in stopping the Collectors and saving the people they are capturing. So, no he isn't apolitical, and he's not selfish - he basically has spent his entire life working towards what he thinks will make the world a better place.

[BioWareM0d13]

Liara, Garrus, Javik, Vega, Eve/Bakara 

[Satele-Shan87]

1) Liara

2)Garrus

3) Ashley/Kaidan

[N7Jamaican]

Liara, Garrus, Javik, Vega, Eve/Bakara 

 

Wow! Someone actually likes Vega? The meathead?! Actually Vega wasn't bad.

[KaiserShep]

I think that Vega's a lot better than some might give him credit for. Also, if not for him, some characters on the ship would be more of a downer. Garrus' most upbeat dialogue is with Vega on the crew deck, Kaidan, if brought back to the Normandy, will play poker with him and it's one of the few instances that Mr. Alenko isn't sad about something, Javik trolls him in the mess, and Cortez, the grieving widower, actually has pleasant banter. 

[Seraphim24]

I think that Vega's a lot better than some might give him credit for. Also, if not for him, some characters on the ship would be more of a downer. Garrus' most upbeat dialogue is with Vega on the crew deck, Kaidan, if brought back to the Normandy, will play poker with him and it's one of the few instances that Mr. Alenko isn't sad about something, Javik trolls him in the mess, and Cortez, the grieving widower, actually has pleasant banter. 

 

Vega was all right, kind of agree there, not really supermazing but all right.

[Bruce M. Shepard]

Jack

Wrex

Grunt

Javik

Sovereign 

ME2 Legion

Mordin

Saren

Miranda

Harbinger

Zaeed

Joker

Edi

ME2 Illusive man

Kal'Reegar

[Vespervin]

In no specific order.

 

The Illusive Man (ME2)

Wrex

Grunt
Garrus

Tali'Zorah

Joker

Legion

Thane

Vega

Shepard

Kenneth Donnally

Gabriella Daniels

Engineer Adams

Emily Wong

Mordin

Geth VI

David (Overlord DLC)

Admiral Hackett

Random krogran who wants a Presidium fish

Random krogran who wants a Presidium fish friend

Turian Citadel bartender (ME2)

 

I should stop....

[Ahglock]

You're right, he is. But I think there's a limit on just how bad he is in that respect. He does a lot of bad things, but he really doesn't mean to be a bad guy. The writers put a great deal of effort into his backstory and his characterization to make him extremely imperfect but well-intentioned. He has flaws, recognizes them, and tries to improve on who he is as a person to make things right.

I quite enjoyed his story.

Mordin only tried to do one bad thing. Cure the genophage. Luckily a patented Shepard pep talk got him back on track and he agreed to go along with the deception.

[themikefest]

Wow! Someone actually likes Vega? The meathead?! Actually Vega wasn't bad.

I liked Vega. Though I would've preferred having an ME2 squadmate instead

[BioWareM0d13]

Wow! Someone actually likes Vega? The meathead?! Actually Vega wasn't bad.

 

A lot of people do, actually. I'm not sure how many would list him among their favorites, but any time there has been a thread about whether people like or hate the character, there were a lot more like posts.

 

I liked him because he provided a lot of the more humorous moments in the third game, giving an appropriately dark story some brief moments of levity, and I dug the mentor/mentee relationship he had with Shepard. He also was often part of some of the better companion banters in ME3, whether with Cortez, Garrus, or Javik. Freddie Prinze Jr. also gave one of the better voice acting performances in the series, IMO.

[BraveVesperia]

I can't believe I just saw Mordin likened to a Nazi. 

 

I mean, I get why some dislike him, even though he's one of my favourites (flaws and all). But a Nazi... seriously?

[BioWareM0d13]

I can't believe I just saw Mordin likened to a Nazi. 

 

I mean, I get why some dislike him, even though he's one of my favourites (flaws and all). But a Nazi... seriously?

 

I think a better real world comparison for Mordin would be the scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project.

 

He is more Oppenheimer or Feynman than Mengele.

 

Totally unrelated to the OP, but I'm now thinking I'd love to see a Salarian character loosely based on Richard Feynman. Any lurking devs who can make this a thing? 

[KaiserShep]

I can't believe I just saw Mordin likened to a Nazi. 

 

I mean, I get why some dislike him, even though he's one of my favourites (flaws and all). But a Nazi... seriously?

 

All roads lead to the bent propeller logo. 

[fraggle]

Wow! Someone actually likes Vega? The meathead?! Actually Vega wasn't bad.

 

Vega is my fav out of all!

I just point to my signature for his pure genius. Had a blast with him and Javik in my team.

[Seraphim24]

I can't believe I just saw Mordin likened to a Nazi. 

 

I mean, I get why some dislike him, even though he's one of my favourites (flaws and all). But a Nazi... seriously?

 

Again it was "Nazi scientist that through their own inaction and kind of diffident unclear desires resulted in lots of action which harmed everyone."

 

It was a bad example really, you could use so many in history rather than make it seem like everything comes back to Nazis. Heck, you could even use all kinds of examples of, for example, earlier German history of a mix of flaws and benefits, and stories involving empires or attempted empires.

 

Ariovistus was a German leader circa 60 BC who was successful at bringing together various Germanic clans and bring them to a fighting strength. However, he also had these kind of beta passive-aggressive tendencies, while conquering the Gaulish empire he invited the wrath of the Rome which had provinces in the area as well as an agreement to protect the Aedui, partly by mocking their ability to defend themselves and various other things.

 

Caesar actually offered peace but they literally threw the stones and rocks during the negotiation. It seems he was never perhaps purely and openly antagonistic necessarily, but rather was so averse to getting it all together he ended up provoking lots of conflict anyway.

 

Maybe he didn't even want to fight Rome, maybe he wanted to just fight Gaul, who knows, it's not entirely clear, maybe he just wanted to be baity or something, but the reality is that it's a bit stupid to play with power in that way.

 

And so the Roman emperor Caesar annihilated the German tribes at Vesontino, which resulted in the death of both of Ariovistus's wives as well as a daughter. Yes both wives. 

 

So.. some good perhaps... but it seems he didn't truly understand the requirements or nature of power and leadership in the end.

[Seraphim24]

A lot of people do, actually. I'm not sure how many would list him among their favorites, but any time there has been a thread about whether people like or hate the character, there were a lot more like posts.

 

I liked him because he provided a lot of the more humorous moments in the third game, giving an appropriately dark story some brief moments of levity, and I dug the mentor/mentee relationship he had with Shepard. He also was often part of some of the better companion banters in ME3, whether with Cortez, Garrus, or Javik. Freddie Prinze Jr. also gave one of the better voice acting performances in the series, IMO.

 

Sorry in retrospect my post felt sort of off-topicy, this Vega thing is kind of like the reverse of the Mordin thing and sort of negative. 

 

While I was surprised at the Mordin thing Vega is surprising to me but in a more positive way, I had kind of forgotten about him but yeah ME3 was all dark outside of Vega for the most part.

 

If I was re-making a list I might put him at #10 or so.