37 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkenski]

Since ME3 my perception of Mass Effect changed quite drastically. Part of it had to do with me being 16 years old when I played the first Mass Effect and being 18 when I played ME3, to being 22 now and less easily impressed when I understand the writing much better, but one pervasive and quite destructive thought I've let enter my mind has been the idea of how narrative should/shall/has to/can/can't be and sometimes going over these boards I get the impression that many feel the same.

 

A big argument is often how the trilogy stopped being good at ME2 because "it had no plot" and stuff. Those are all arguments I've seen and do concede upon further consideration, but it's really hard to change how I felt when I played ME1 and ME2 because in my head (partly because I didn't fully understand all of the narrative back then) I had spun it up to be a much better story in my head (headcanoning basically) and I'm not saying you should be okay with having to headcanon anything, but I'm realizing the reason why I fell so in love with the first two is because they evoked my imagination.

 

For example, the first Mass Effect has a pretty solid plot (and sort of a big plot hole that can, again, be headcanoned away) but I didn't give a **** about the story when I played it as a 16-year old or when I replayed it before ME3 was out. It was serviceable but cliche-ridden while also containing some truly memorable moments (like meeting Vigil or Sovereign) which was quite a different perception than a friend of mine who just beat the game and came over to me and went "The story was AMAZING! This and that happened, I can't believe it, I've never seen anything like it!" and I was slightly confused because I did indeed see ME1 as an amazing game, but I thought ME2 was even better and I realized it's because I had way more interest in just exploring, doing the side-missions and talking to my crew than being invested in the ho-hum grandesque and occasionally bombastic main story... so I told my friend "I actually don't think the main story was the great thing about it" and he looked about as dumbfounded at me as I had probably looked when he told me he thought the story was amazing.

 

Again, I think I used to love Mass Effect largely thanks to how imaginative it is, and sometimes with ME3 being so unsatisfying (less exploration, less player agency, a terrible, terrible ending at a trilogy-bookend no matter how you slice it) and I feel a lot of fans have lost sight of what they used to love about these games.

 

DA:I was rather disappointing too but there was something about it still that, again, piqued my interest and motivation to imagine. I don't know what it is but Bioware sometimes have a disney-esque (and I mean 90's disney) or even Nintendo-esque quality even when their stories aren't that well-written, and I think the key is to be imaginative when you play these games.

 

Do you catch my drift? We ain't talking games. This is 'bout PRACTICE!

 

*ahem*

[Silcron]

The more I read I've come to expect for stories not to be original. It's more about how they're told. For example, The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is full of clichès and it is still one of the best written books I've ever read. It was like being reminded of why those plot points became clichès in the first place

I've heard people say that ME2 is one big sidequest, and I agree, but for me it is still the best one in the trilogy overall (ME3 has better gameplay.) The experience was and still is to me so enjoyable. Despite its failings (the ending and character assasination for me are the main ones) in ME3 I still enjoyed it, it still had its moments, such as Mordin.

I don't expect the greatest plot from MEA, I just hope it's a ride as enjoyable as ME2 (or KotOR, if it's as enjoyable as KotOR I'll be super happy. One can dream, sadly because of DAI I'm feeling wary.)

[Kabooooom]

Sigh...I wish I was 22 again. Those were some of the best years of my life. Now I feel so damn old all the time. I remember having an Atari as a kid, and playing the NES on a black and white tv. I remember a time before Al Gore invented the internet, when I played outside with friends. And now all these young whippersnappers with their hippity hop and their jadedness *grumble grumble*.

Mass Effect is different things to different people. That's ultimately what it comes down to. Most of us agree that the ME3 endings sucked, but honestly I enjoyed 99% of the trilogy otherwise.

[shit's fucked cunts]

I'm 22 now as well. Jesus Christ, it gets worse!?

[Kabooooom]

I'm 22 now as well. Jesus Christ, it gets worse!?

25 was my favorite year. It's all downhill after that.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Balls.

[Synthetic Turian]

I'm 22 now as well. Jesus Christ, it gets worse!?

 

just surround yourself with people and things that you love. Now watch as they all wither away before your eyes.

 

Balls.

 

Krogans contain 4.

[Kabooooom]

Balls.

Just wait until you turn 30 and you go to a party and realize you would have rather just stayed at home on the couch watching HBO because that is more entertaining to you now.

But it could be worse. All my friends have kids now. There's a certain degree of Schadenfreude when you realize that they must feel even older than you do.

[Helios969]

Sigh...I wish I was 22 again. Those were some of the best years of my life. Now I feel so damn old all the time. I remember having an Atari as a kid, and playing the NES on a black and white tv. I remember a time before Al Gore invented the internet, when I played outside with friends. And now all these young whippersnappers with their hippity hop and their jadedness *grumble grumble*.

Mass Effect is different things to different people. That's ultimately what it comes down to. Most of us agree that the ME3 endings sucked, but honestly I enjoyed 99% of the trilogy otherwise.

Damn it man, stop...you're giving me flashbacks:) Ah, Atari, I was quite popular In my neighborhood for a while back then.

[Kabooooom]

Damn it man, stop...you're giving me flashbacks:) Ah, Atari, I was quite popular In my neighborhood for a while back then.

I had this game, "Adventure" I think it was called. I guess technically the first "rpg" I've ever played. You were basically a square of a few pixels lol, invading castles fighting pixel dragons and such to find a key or something.

Then there was this game I had which was weird...i can't remember the name. Prism, maybe.

Ah, those were the days.

[dreamgazer]

ME3 improved on ME2 in most aspects. DAI improved on DA2 in most aspects.

If you've experienced other space operas and read other SF books, you'll notice that very little "imagination" went into the first Mass Effect. Copypasta everywhere, as well as significant plot holes and very easy space magic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with the post, honestly, aside from re-re-re-re-reemphasizing your dislike of ME3 (and, to a lesser extent, DAI).

[Indigenous]

Again, I think I used to love Mass Effect largely thanks to how imaginative it is, and sometimes with ME3 being so unsatisfying (less exploration, less player agency, a terrible, terrible ending at a trilogy-bookend no matter how you slice it) and I feel a lot of fans have lost sight of what they used to love about these games.

 

DA:I was rather disappointing too but there was something about it still that, again, piqued my interest and motivation to imagine. I don't know what it is but Bioware sometimes have a disney-esque (and I mean 90's disney) or even Nintendo-esque quality even when their stories aren't that well-written, and I think the key is to be imaginative when you play these games.

 

Do you catch my drift? We ain't talking games. This is 'bout PRACTICE!

 

*ahem*

...

 

You over hype games. I think I see this happening alot, people feel entitled to a game designed with them in mind. That will never happen.

 

Bioware don't really create well written stories but they do offer engaging ones. Stories that will mesmerise you and keep you hooked. I believe what Bioware did with the Mass Effect series was a risky gamble that was always more likely to end badly than it was to end well. They captivated people with Me1&2, and much of Me3. Then they ended the series in a way which made sense given the way the story was told but perhaps wasn't the happiest way to end it. However, if you played the games without any idea on how the series SHOULD end you probably had more fun than the guy who has a 'headcannon'.

 

My point is, don't expect anything, just have fun.

[Kappa Neko]

I stopped reading at "being 22"... too painful.

 

 

 

PS: You'll only get more picky with age, so roll with whatever Bioware delivers. Soon your hands will be to old to play these games anyway. All your problems will solve themselves eventually, you see.^^

[Iakus]

...

 

You over hype games. I think I see this happening alot, people feel entitled to a game designed with them in mind. That will never happen.

 

Bioware don't really create well written stories but they do offer engaging ones. Stories that will mesmerise you and keep you hooked. I believe what Bioware did with the Mass Effect series was a risky gamble that was always more likely to end badly than it was to end well. They captivated people with Me1&2, and much of Me3. Then they ended the series in a way which made sense given the way the story was told but perhaps wasn't the happiest way to end it. However, if you played the games without any idea on how the series SHOULD end you probably had more fun than the guy who has a 'headcannon'.

 

My point is, don't expect anything, just have fun.

That's just it.  The story was being told differently based on who was playing it.  Different choices were being made.  Different people were surviving.  Different scenerios were playing out, even SHepard was different from one game to the next.  

 

So no, the way ME3 ended didn't "Make sense" for every story being told.  Yet we all got it rammed down our throat.  Thus the negativity.  THus the bitterness towards the series now.

 

Oh, and yeah, I played the original  Adventure on the original Atari 2600.  So I guess that makes me an old curmudgeon here 

[Linkenski]

ME3 improved on ME2 in most aspects. DAI improved on DA2 in most aspects.

If you've experienced other space operas and read other SF books, you'll notice that very little "imagination" went into the first Mass Effect. Copypasta everywhere, as well as significant plot holes and very easy space magic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with the post, honestly, aside from re-re-re-re-reemphasizing your dislike of ME3 (and, to a lesser extent, DAI).

I think the imagination I see is different. I know and have noticed how often they copy stuff, but it's hard not to feel a bit enchanted when you're exploring ME1, talking to the crew in ME2 or for example, the haven siege in DA:I. I know Bioware don't have anything to brag about with their writing as mostly every writer on their team including Drew have just as many negative traits to their writing-style as they have positive traits.

 

All I know is, at some point when I initially played these games I really believed in it and it sucked me in. I also believed in Rayman 2's story when I was 6, lol. I just think sometimes you have to remember to just lean back and enjoy the show. Nowadays I tend to obsess over the details and try to analyse everything when I'm playing through the games and sometimes stuff is better enjoyed when you just roll with it.

[Kappa Neko]

I'm not bitter at all towards the trilogy. I bought all the DLC only this year (lol, yes). Replayed all three games, had a blast with it. Never gets old for me.

I'll keep replaying for decades probably, once a year maybe. The ending was disappointing, but I got over it quickly. I was never that mad in the first place.

 

I love every single game they made since ME1.

 

What I am is being extremely worried about ME:A regardless... *sigh*

This a novel experience to me when it comes to Bioware, and I HATE it. Can somebody make this stop, please? Self-help group, anyone?

[Kabooooom]

I played the original Adventure on the original Atari 2600. So I guess that makes me an old curmudgeon here

And after adventure, when I upgraded to the NES, I had this rpg called Crystalis which I absolutely ****** loved. I think that was actually what made me really get into rpgs.

Ah, nostalgia. Damn I'm old ;(.

[Kappa Neko]

All I know is, at some point when I initially played these games I really believed in it and it sucked me in. I also believed in Rayman 2's story when I was 6, lol. I just think sometimes you have to remember to just lean back and enjoy the show. Nowadays I tend to obsess over the details and try to analyse everything when I'm playing through the games and sometimes stuff is better enjoyed when you just roll with it.

That's the important bit. We outgrow our ability to just get lost in a story the way children do so effortlessly. As adults we over-analyze everything and spoil the fun. And I agree that Bioware games - to me - have managed to pull me in completely again, making me feel like a kid again. Big-eyed and mesmerized. Absolutely enchanted by the characters.

 

Bioware are great storytellers. Their stories are not original, they are not particularly clever, but that doesn't matter. They make me care for the characters the same way I did as a kid, crying with Belle when she thought the beast was dead.

 

On Saturday I went to a video game concert, and they played ME1 music for a few minutes, starting with Vigil's Theme. And I almost lost it right there in front of hundreds of people, close to tears. I love Shepard and these games like I loved my plush bunny I got when I was four. Whenever I replay I feel home... it sounds so cheesy and slightly disturbing, but it's true. I can't even explain it (because Dragon Age isn't quite like that). I hear Mass Effect music and it calms me down like a nursery rhyme works on a toddler... I feel happy and secure.

 

THAT is what Bioware did to me with Mass Effect. And why I love them so much despite some of the bullsh*t they pulled, like the ending.

And I'm not the only person. I know two people in real life who feel the exact same way. Who keep replaying over and over.

 

So yes, the comparison with Disney, as weird as it sounds, is not entirely wrong. Just look at all those characters Shepard helps become better people. Like Jack? So very adorable in ME3. Bioware games are fairytales. Modern fairytales for grown-ups to reconnect with their inner child. DAI is as colorful as a Pixar movie. And I friggin loved that!!!

 

Their stories are as moralistic as any Disney movie. Bioware games aren't gray like The Witcher series. They teach you how to be better people. And if you do it right, you can save almost everyone and you'll be friends forever. Fairytales.

[AlanC9]

Their stories are as moralistic as any Disney movie. Bioware games aren't gray like The Witcher series. They teach you how to be better people. And if you do it right, you can save almost everyone and you'll be friends forever. Fairytales.

You could say the problem with ME3 was that Bio doesn't believe that.

[Ariella]

And here for a moment, I'm going to pontificate on one of my absolutely favorite movies: Casablanca.

It was a factory film, just one of dozens that were going to come out in 1942. That's what Hollywood did.

Based on a play nobody had heard of, with absolutely no expectation of doing well, and a story that is, to put it mildly, cliche, it then became one of the greatest movies in American Cinema.

Just saying...

[Linkenski]

I'm not bitter at all towards the trilogy. I bought all the DLC only this year (lol, yes). Replayed all three games, had a blast with it. Never gets old for me.

I'll keep replaying for decades probably, once a year maybe. The ending was disappointing, but I got over it quickly. I was never that mad in the first place.

 

I love every single game they made since ME1.

 

What I am is being extremely worried about ME:A regardless... *sigh*

This a novel experience to me when it comes to Bioware, and I HATE it. Can somebody make this stop, please? Self-help group, anyone?

It's a new team and you can't be sure it'll be your cup of tea because it's a new galaxy and new cast led by someone who wasn't lead-writer in the trilogy at any point etc.

 

That's part of why I don't know what to think, but I have seen similar situations before where my close-mindedness meant I wouldn't accept the new game that reboot the series in a new direction just because that direction was new. This time, I'll bite it in me if I don't like it at first and think about what the game did accomplish on its own upon reflection before I start cussing left and right about it.

Ever played the Ace Attorney games? I hated Apollo Justice at first, but then later I discovered it was actually kind of decent. I had just written it off because the previous main character returned in a role that I felt ruined his perfect ending in the earlier series and the new cast felt like a reiteration of the old one but more kiddy and worse, but at some point I started liking them anyway.

[Addictress]

The more I read I've come to expect for stories not to be original. It's more about how they're told. For example, The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss is full of clichès and it is still one of the best written books I've ever read. It was like being reminded of why those plot points became clichès in the first place

I've heard people say that ME2 is one big sidequest, and I agree, but for me it is still the best one in the trilogy overall (ME3 has better gameplay.) The experience was and still is to me so enjoyable. Despite its failings (the ending and character assasination for me are the main ones) in ME3 I still enjoyed it, it still had its moments, such as Mordin.

I don't expect the greatest plot from MEA, I just hope it's a ride as enjoyable as ME2 (or KotOR, if it's as enjoyable as KotOR I'll be super happy. One can dream, sadly because of DAI I'm feeling wary.)

This

[sortiv]

I'm 22 now as well. Jesus Christ, it gets worse!?

 

Nope. At 26, so far it only keeps getting better. 

 

OP- I'm sure your taste in stories and media has changed, that's natural. But I would recommend you give it some time before you dismiss the stories you loved first. As you continue to get older you may see yourself "come back around" to things you thought you outgrew, maybe because of nostalgia, or maybe because you realize that as you grew up you let people convince you it's more "mature" not to like the things you did when you're young. A healthy of amount of apathy (without any angst) towards other people's opinions about your leisure time and interests will hopefully allow you to reconsider the simple pleasures of stories and pastimes that, while lacking in the nuance that satisfies a more experienced palette, make an essential part of you happy inside, because they're fun, and aesthetically pleasing, and simple, and fanciful, and perhaps because they aren't bogged down by a pedantic need to be comprehensive in their naturalism. 

 

Like whatever you want to, and don't "concede" your enjoyment because something has flaws that others can point out - because based on that, no one could ever enjoy anything, ever. And what fun would that be? 

[Linkenski]

I just said "concede" because I think it sounds smart.

 

Also, I just learned today that my flatmate whom I thought was 20 is 28 holy ****. He looks young and gets along fine with me and the rest of our friendgroup who are approx. 20-24 years old despite of the age difference. I wouldn't be too fazed about getting older unless I keep telling myself I can no longer enjoy things I used to or that life has to get worse just because I'm not "young" anymore.

 

IMO you're young until you're 35 or 40; Then you're simply mature and I plan on playing video games a lot when I'm 60. That's not a problem at all, but I just miss my younger-self's perception of the games I played because I was much easilier engrossed in a story because i failed to comprehend it. Ever heard about Miyazaki and his inspiration for making the Souls games? He talks about how he would read books as a child and not be able to understand all the details but it would make him think up stuff in his head that was better than the stuff in the book once he understood it.

 

That's how I felt about Mass Effect at first. I'm not pointing at anyone or asking for change... I'm just saying, remember to use your imagination or something like that.

 

Actually, my plan was to change the world with this topic... nah okay, maybe not.

[Hjklop]

Mass Effect has never had the best story, what most people seem to fall in love with are the characters or the world, or as a previous poster commented "how" the story was told. 

 

Really that seems to be all there is to it, when I was younger I didn't see the problems with the games as they were, but with age you become bitter, pessimistic and more able to catch problems. 

 

As far as the games go they all have their strengths and weaknesses, the first is a great introduction with clunky controls and a bit of a blandness, the second improves the gameplay but really ripped the lore a new one and ended up as just "Sidequest: The Game" and the third, well it had great character moments reached a great middle ground between the first and second in terms of gameplay, but basically assassinated other characters (legion, Ashly etc.) and the less said about the ending the better. 

 

So really best policy is to take it all as it goes.