109 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

New trilogy what now?

 

It seems that crack is indeed back. 

[AlanC9]

Not what Applepie said at all.

Really? I'm finding it hard to come up with a reading of "If we would take each of ME games as a three separate installments, then ME2 would be probably best game of ME universe" which doesn't mean that ME2 is the best game except for nostalgia. But that's why I was asking.

[Iakus]

Really? I'm finding it hard to come up with a reading of "If we would take each of ME games as a three separate installments, then ME2 would be probably best game of ME universe" which doesn't mean that ME2 is the best game except for nostalgia. But that's why I was asking.

I think what it means is  "If we took out the overreaching arc of an imminent Reaper invasion, and made each game a standalone adventure, then ME2 would be the best."

 

In other words ME1 was strictly about tracking down a rogue Spectre who allied with the geth.  ME2 was about aliens abducting human colonies, and ME3 was about an alien invasion from outside the galaxy.  

 

I question if that would have made ME2 the "best" of the trilogy.  But it is a point worth considering.

[Malanek]

This is actually an interesting topic.

 

What ME1 did well

 

Story

Characters

Depth of world building

Immersive cutscenes

 

What ME1 didn't do well

The Mako

Combat gameplay in general (particularly the gunplay)

Re-used and/or boring environments

A moronic inventory

Bad story pacing.

 

Reintroducing the Mako is a risk. They have not once done vehicle gameplay well. From the Mako to the Hammerhead to the Horse, they have all been pretty boring. It does add a sense of immersion allowing the user to experience larger maps though (which is sort of expected of them) so there is a benefit if they can make the gameplay an engaging experience.

 

edit - added a couple of ideas after reading the thread.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Make love to the Mako.

 

Your children will be Makon bits.

 

The Mako needed a massive overhaul. It mostly needed better handling, acceleration, brakes, better targeting system, weapons, and faster repair time. 

[Seraphim24]

Really? I'm finding it hard to come up with a reading of "If we would take each of ME games as a three separate installments, then ME2 would be probably best game of ME universe" which doesn't mean that ME2 is the best game except for nostalgia. But that's why I was asking.

 

It says that ignoring all prior and future context ME2 is the best game, with the reverse simply being that with prior and future context (taken as a whole) the portion we call ME1 is the best portion of the larger ME story arc, the reasons given in each instance involve story characters and combat, not nostalgia.

 

 

ME1 had a lot of flaws, mostly around the combat mechanics, but it does much more of good things than bad ones. Without succes of ME1 there would be no Mass Effect at all. Its story, characters and overall vibe was much better than ME3. If we would take each of ME games as a three separate installments, then ME2 would be probably best game of ME universe, because it had deeper character progression but little weaker of storytelling - while fine combat mechanics. ME3 managed to create fine combat mechanics, but its story and antagonists are weakest points of whole trilogy.

 

ME1 had weak combat mechanics, but more good than bad. It's story, characters and vibe are much better than ME3. Then the point above.

 

ME2 had deeper character progression than 1 but weaker story, with solid combat. ME3 managed to create fine combat mechanics, but story and antaongists are the weakests.

[Ahglock]

What ME1 didn't do well
The Mako

.

LTP

The mako was a smooth driving, jumping, shooting, sniping machine.

[Aimi]

The mako was a smooth driving, jumping, shooting, sniping machine.

weaker, slower, and less maneuverable than a 1983 armored personnel carrier, with the only new functionality being those goofy jump-jets that were entirely unnecessary for navigation and were primarily useful for cheesing thresher maw fights

it was easy to handle, but it was horrendously implausible for the setting

[Ahglock]

weaker, slower, and less maneuverable than a 1983 armored personnel carrier, with the only new functionality being those goofy jump-jets that were entirely unnecessary for navigation and were primarily useful for cheesing thresher maw fights

it was easy to handle, but it was horrendously implausible for the setting

Sounds like a LTP issue to me.

[Aimi]

Sounds like a LTP issue to me.

don't matter how hard you hold the sticks down son, that Mako ain't getting up to 60 km/h and it ain't registering kill shots at four klicks

[AlanC9]

It says that ignoring all prior and future context ME2 is the best game, with the reverse simply being that with prior and future context (taken as a whole) the portion we call ME1 is the best portion of the larger ME story arc, the reasons given in each instance involve story characters and combat, not nostalgia.

Gotcha. Thanks. I think that's completely wrong -- which is probably why I missed it the first time -- but I at least understand the point now. Although I still don't see how this perspective wouldn't mean that ME2 is a worse game than ME1 because ME2 has a worse plot. Does plot count for more in a sequel, or something like that?

[KaiserShep]

don't matter how hard you hold the sticks down son, that Mako ain't getting up to 60 km/h and it ain't registering kill shots at four klicks

It's a little known secret that each wheel of the Mako has a krogan running against it like a hamster. They can only move so fast, even if Shepard's constantly pressing the button that sends a jolt of electricity up their rear ends. 

[The Hierophant]

That explains alot.

[AlanC9]

don't matter how hard you hold the sticks down son, that Mako ain't getting up to 60 km/h and it ain't registering kill shots at four klicks

In fairness, though, this is like complaining that an X-Wing is a lousy fighter compared to an F-15. In a lot of ways it's true, but the comparison kind of misses the point of the X-Wing.

What would a good version of the Mako have played like? Assuming the whole concept makes sense in the first place.( I never understood why Shepard wasn't just landing where he needed to go.)

[WittyUsername]

ME1's strongest points over ME2 and ME3 is the narrative approach and atmosphere. ME1 is the game that made me walk around on the Citadel going "Oooh, what is that? Oooh, what is this? Ooooh, what does THIS button doooo!"

It felt scifi to me, the other games felt less so. I mean, yeah, the other games still had aliens and ships that go woosh woosh, but something about ME1 had more charm and felt more scifi to me. I can't quite put my finger on why that is, maybe someone can help me out with that?

 

Of course, Sovereign and Saren made a huge chunk of what made ME1 great for me. Especially Sovereign's reveal.

 

I'd love for them to learn from that department.

[Ahglock]

In fairness, though, this is like complaining that an X-Wing is a lousy fighter compared to an F-15. In a lot of ways it's true, but the comparison kind of misses the point of the X-Wing.

What would a good version of the Mako have played like? Assuming the whole concept makes sense in the first place.( I never understood why Shepard wasn't just landing where he needed to go.)

Potentially you would might land a distance away in many of the missions if you felt there was anti air. A big brick dropping isn't quite the stealth insertion. So getting shot out of the sky would be likely. Land a distance away and approach by land. The tactics would change mission to mission but there are likely situations where you would want to drop in far enough away where a vehicle would come in handy. They didn't address that in ME1 but they didn't address a lot of things.

[Pee Jae]

ME1's strongest points over ME2 and ME3 is the narrative approach and atmosphere. ME1 is the game that made me walk around on the Citadel going "Oooh, what is that? Oooh, what is this? Ooooh, what does THIS button doooo!"

It felt scifi to me, the other games felt less so. I mean, yeah, the other games still had aliens and ships that go woosh woosh, but something about ME1 had more charm and felt more scifi to me. I can't quite put my finger on why that is, maybe someone can help me out with that?

 

Of course, Sovereign and Saren made a huge chunk of what made ME1 great for me. Especially Sovereign's reveal.

 

I'd love for them to learn from that department.

 

 

Different strokes and all. Personally, I couldn't wait to get off the Citadel and whined liked a cat in heat when I had to go back. But, I see your reasoning. "Ooh, ahh, giant space station!" "FREEDOM!"

[WittyUsername]

Oh, trust me, I wanted to get off Citadel in a hurry, but at the same time, I liked how the Citadel introduced all this weird **** at once.

 

It's a weird mix. I liked the discovery aspect of a bunch of new stuff, but was kinda bored with lack of things to do.

Andromeda could fix the situation with individual discovery. Discovery new lifeforms, get to know them, fight them (or their enemies or your enemies) and discover new stuff.

[Ahglock]

Oh, trust me, I wanted to get off Citadel in a hurry, but at the same time, I liked how the Citadel introduced all this weird **** at once.

It's a weird mix. I liked the discovery aspect of a bunch of new stuff, but was kinda bored with lack of things to do.

Andromeda could fix the situation with individual discovery. Discovery new lifeforms, get to know them, fight them (or their enemies or your enemies) and discover new stuff.

The focus of the ME1 setting was the sci fi. ME2 the focus was more on things like rebuilding post sovereign omega had a sci fi feel but more blade runner than far future sci fi, ME3 was oh noes the world is going to end setting not sci-fi.

[Iakus]

don't matter how hard you hold the sticks down son, that Mako ain't getting up to 60 km/h and it ain't registering kill shots at four klicks

 

Speak for yourself on the last part.  I stopped using the scope on the Mako because it made combat too easy.

[Iakus]

The focus of the ME1 setting was the sci fi. ME2 the focus was more on things like rebuilding post sovereign omega had a sci fi feel but more blade runner than far future sci fi, ME3 was oh noes the world is going to end setting not sci-fi.

ME1's focus was a scifi-exploration feel reminiscent of Star Trek, Babylon 5, Farscape, etc.

 

ME2 felt more like a "dark and gritty" super hero comic (complete with costumed heroes/antiheroes)

 

ME3 was a poor attempt at a futuristic war story with waaaaay too much influence from arthouse films like Solaris or Sunshine.

[Ahglock]

ME1's focus was a scifi-exploration feel reminiscent of Star Trek, Babylon 5, Farscape, etc.

ME2 felt more like a "dark and gritty" super hero comic (complete with costumed heroes/antiheroes)

ME3 was a poor attempt at a futuristic war story with waaaaay too much influence from arthouse films like Solaris or Sunshine.

Huh. Well said. I'll agree with that characterization over mine.

[SardaukarElite]

In fairness, though, this is like complaining that an X-Wing is a lousy fighter compared to an F-15. In a lot of ways it's true, but the comparison kind of misses the point of the X-Wing.

 

I'm not sure that works. Star Wars is (tech wise at least) basically WW2 in space, so the X-Wing is channeling an awful lot of P-51 Mustang  with a dash of F-86 Sabre. I mean that doesn't make any sense of course, but it's faithful to the flavor. 

 

The Mako on the other hand is supposed to be a super advanced recon tank thing. 

[AlanC9]

I assumed the Mako design intent was sort of the same thing. It's a Sherman -- or maybe a Panther, since it doesn't go up in flames the moment a German geth puts a rocket into it. (I guess the Hammerhead was going for an attack helicopter feel.)

Though that doesn't explain the Mako's slow speed. So maybe it's one of those Soviet heavies instead?

[Iakus]

I assumed the Mako design intent was sort of the same thing. It's a Sherman -- or maybe a Panther, since it doesn't go up in flames the moment a German geth puts a rocket into it. (I guess the Hammerhead was going for an attack helicopter feel.)

Though that doesn't explain the Mako's slow speed.

The Hammerhead was less an attack helicopter and more an attack frisbee.  The thing didn't even have a proper HUD.

 

The Mako was pretty fast.  I think it just seemed slow because the operational area was pretty huge.