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Does anyone else feel bad about not liking Sera?


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#101
Dgyre

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I can't stand her. I mean, I get it, I understand her appeal, but I found the writing to be way too on the nose when trying to establish her as being "quirky" and anti-establishment. 

 

I want to like her, I really do, but I find her grating and especially with human characters (or even an elf, as she seems to despise dalish tradition) there seems to always be an RP reason why my Inquisitor wouldn't like her. 

 

Maybe if I play a noble hating dwarf we'll get along. Who knows. Am I alone here?

 

 

its okay to not like her, she definitely isn't for everyone, as long as you respect that the character is in the game and helps provide a diverse set of personalities (and I do mean personality, not gender or orientation), I also personally don't like a lot about sera's manner, but I love what she ads to the story and as you get to know her deeper how there is depth and interesting things there.  she provides a great companion to certain kinds of inquisitors, and some of her dialogue is awesome, so while I as a person would not get along great with her in real life, I do enjoy what the character brings and some of the most hilarious fun moments in the game come with her.

 

its okay not to like her, but I don't think its okay to hate that she is in the game, if you understand my meaning.



#102
kal_reegar

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I hate her. Can't stand her. The way she speak, the way she behave... insurrefable.

 

I sent her away after 2 hour.


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#103
XEternalXDreamsX

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Dude, Sera's banter with Cass shows how much she loves to troll. Vivienne shut her down twice when Sera tried to mess with her. Oddly enough, I find Sera's banter triggering like crazy. I'm only half-way through Hinterlands and she conversed with Vivienne and Cassandra on three different occasions for each character.

#104
QunariPotatoHammer

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Sera is like marmite!   

 

I can understand why people dislike her since perhaps her character is too childish for an organisation like the Inquisition, and perhaps her voice can be rather grating for someone who isn't familiar with the various British accents (she's from up North btw).  I don't dislike her character but I do feel that her personal quest....ugh, how she loses control and beats that guy to death.  At least she's handy when it comes to fighting dragons.=D



#105
NKnight7

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Sera wasn't my favorite companion my first few playthroughs, but after a while she just kind of grows on you. She definitely brings the comedy to the party.



#106
Bugsie

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I can't stand her. I mean, I get it, I understand her appeal, but I found the writing to be way too on the nose when trying to establish her as being "quirky" and anti-establishment. 
 
I want to like her, I really do, but I find her grating and especially with human characters (or even an elf, as she seems to despise dalish tradition) there seems to always be an RP reason why my Inquisitor wouldn't like her. 
 
Maybe if I play a noble hating dwarf we'll get along. Who knows. Am I alone here?

I don't know why you would feel bad? Because other people tell you who you should and shouldn't like? Your playthrough, your rules, you do what you need to make it a fun and engaging time.

Personally I love her, but I not going to be a douche about people not liking her. But I do think a qunari and dwarf Inquisitor's tend to have a better run with her. Dwarves are Carta members (a criminal organisation for the most part), qunari are simply outsiders, they're not human nobles and elfy elves so from what I gather (and from my own pt) she gets on better with them. Telling then that a non romanced Sera finds love with another outsider (Dagna)

#107
akbogert

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Not all, but most of the people I see who dislike her never actually got to know her because they were put off from the start. Almost everyone I've encountered who has actually played through her relationship comes around to appreciating her. But she is very defensive and shielded, and if you don't put up with that and get her to trust you, you'll never see the real her and you'll never get more than the "nothing is serious, everything should be silly" front she puts up. 

 

I've romanced her twice with elves and befriended her as a noble mage -- you can get her to change the way she talks to and about you (and, by extension, elves/mages/nobles/etc.), but it takes time. 

 

My guess is that OP's "feeling bad" about not liking her is just the sense that she's not as bad as she seems to be. Getting to know her will, for most people, also result in liking her (or at least not hating her anymore). Not for everyone of course. There are plenty of things and people we just don't click with. I'm just saying most of the time when I see people say they hate her they also acknowledge never having befriended her (nevermind romanced), so there's a bit of chicken/egg there.



#108
Dabrikishaw

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I romanced Sera with a Qunari and saw all her cutscenes, still don't like her. I'm not saying this to be defensive since you did only say most, but I wanted to say what I did for the record.


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#109
vbibbi

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Vivienne also never really changes in the main game and she also was widely disliked for it, and yet none of her negative feedback resulted in her getting off screen development of any kind or a change in her views. And it's not as Bioware was completely ignorant of the fact that having a character that hates elven culture and and magic in general wouldn't be a character that wouldn't be disliked.

Trespasser seems to be a DLC they planned from the very beginning, it's to important to have not have been with the setup of the Qunari-Tevinter War, Solas's plan, the crippling of the Inquisition and loss of the Anchor. I have to imagine that writers knew that they'd get the timeskip and Sera's decided to use as way to build her character in way they thought would make more sense for a character like Sera.


It's funny because as much as they dislike each other, Sera and Viv are very similar in some ways. I would think that since Sera is romanceable, her fans are probably more vocal in having complained about her inflexibility and Trespasser was a response to that. And since she is young and still growing as a person, it's logical that she can eventually change.

Vivienne doesn't have as large a following, so people were not as invested in seeing her change "for the better" and it would have been less plausible for her to do so.

I wish that for both characters, Bio had balanced them out better. To me, they both seem like Bio tried to make them as polarizing as possible but did not provide enough positive aspects to balance out the negatives. It's great that they aren't trying to make every companion our BFF, but that doesn't mean they should be insufferable and rely on headcanon to be appreciated.
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#110
akbogert

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...that doesn't mean they should be insufferable and rely on headcanon to be appreciated.

 

Given the popularity of romancing Sera (and the many people who love her in general), that's a stretch claim.



#111
vbibbi

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Given the popularity of romancing Sera (and the many people who love her in general), that's a stretch claim.

I am speaking for myself, not everyone, which is why I said "to me" they require headcanon.

I headcanon that Sera actually does care about the little people and helps them when not in the field with the Inquisitor, since the game presents her as more interested in pranks and killing nobles than actually providing relief to the poor. I headcanon that Vivienne does ANYTHING since she's supposedly a mastermind of The Game yet doesn't do anything special at the Winter Palace, doesn't bring any resources to the Inquisition, and really doesn't do anything once recruited other than cast spells if in the party. For me, these characters have the same problem as much of the game: it's telling instead of showing and making the player fill in the blanks too much.
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#112
akbogert

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I am speaking for myself, not everyone, which is why I said "to me" they require headcanon.

I headcanon that Sera actually does care about the little people and helps them when not in the field with the Inquisitor, since the game presents her as more interested in pranks and killing nobles than actually providing relief to the poor. I headcanon that Vivienne does ANYTHING since she's supposedly a mastermind of The Game yet doesn't do anything special at the Winter Palace, doesn't bring any resources to the Inquisition, and really doesn't do anything once recruited other than cast spells if in the party. For me, these characters have the same problem as much of the game: it's telling instead of showing and making the player fill in the blanks too much.

 

Right, I'm disagreeing with your assertion that the game doesn't demand those blanks be filled in, at least where Sera's concerned. I don't headcanon things -- just not something I ever started doing. Sera grants approval (as does Cole) when you do small personal quests for the citizens of Thedas. Red Jenny Attends a Party is initiated on behalf of servants whose noble abuses them -- Sera asks you to humiliate the noble in retaliation for the suffering they undergo, noting that they'll have nothing but gratitude (and keys) with which to repay the favor. Red Jenny and the Imposters is also brought about by an abused servant seeking a stronger hand than her own to get back at her master. I'd say the game provides plenty of evidence of Sera's feelings beyond the many times she explicitly speaks about it, so no headcanoning is required to take her word. As for killing nobles, she isn't focused on the killing, but the comeuppance. True, she does try to kill the guy who tricks you (and kills the servant who brought you to meet him), but that's simply in keeping with her general feelings of vengeance. She more or less always wants people who have wronged her or you to receive harsh payback (just check out her typical approval reactions to prisoner judgment). In the case of the guy she wants to kill, she ends up just as ready to approve the arrangement when you find a nonlethal way of getting back at him, forcing him to humble himself to your cause (and, by extension, hers).  

 

As for Vivienne, much as I hate her, I think the game is consistent enough in characterizing her as a person whose primary action is to get herself connected -- by whatever means necessary -- to anyone whom she perceives can increase her power and social standing. Considering how little she had to personally do, she impressively manages to get some inquisitors to round up hard-to-find circle tomes for her, and to fetch a cure for her dying lover (a relationship itself clearly calculated for the power it generates -- something which is barely even subtextual when Bastien's family visits Skyhold). If she perceives that a romantic attraction from the inquisitor can be used to her advantage, she'll never explicitly turn you down -- always leading you on, allowing you to think that maybe just one more favor will finally get her to say yes. Cole even lets Vivienne's backroom machinations slip during some of his dialogue when both of them are in the party -- that she manipulated Bastien into a trap of sorts. Vivienne doesn't do anything to help the Inquisition because she's not there to help the Inquisition. She's there to be associated with someone powerful, and gain the favors that association comes with. The showing part of Vivienne's character is admittedly less overt than with Sera, but that subtlety is The Game in action. Any more obvious, and she might get caught. 

 

I'll acknowledge that Vivienne is still ultimately more telling than showing -- we are asked to accept her reputation and skill without many opportunities to directly witness the master at play (Halamshiral would have been a great place for a cutscene or something involving Vivienne playing the crowd to her advantage -- instead we are simply told afterward through dialogue that she made sure that no matter what happened it would benefit her). But Sera, I really do think there's enough actual evidence there. 



#113
YourFunnyUncle

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Yeah. There's plenty of evidence that Sera cares for the little people. Just about any quest where you help the disadvantaged gains approval, and then there are her comments about the dead elven servants in the Winter Palace. I really think that if you pay attention then her character is perfectly understandable and consistent.

Part of the problem may be that to see all this you need to take her with you on a regular basis, which those who dislike her are understandably disinclined to do.

#114
vbibbi

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Right, I'm disagreeing with your assertion that the game doesn't demand those blanks be filled in, at least where Sera's concerned. I don't headcanon things -- just not something I ever started doing. Sera grants approval (as does Cole) when you do small personal quests for the citizens of Thedas. Red Jenny Attends a Party is initiated on behalf of servants whose noble abuses them -- Sera asks you to humiliate the noble in retaliation for the suffering they undergo, noting that they'll have nothing but gratitude (and keys) with which to repay the favor. Red Jenny and the Imposters is also brought about by an abused servant seeking a stronger hand than her own to get back at her master. I'd say the game provides plenty of evidence of Sera's feelings beyond the many times she explicitly speaks about it, so no headcanoning is required to take her word. As for killing nobles, she isn't focused on the killing, but the comeuppance. True, she does try to kill the guy who tricks you (and kills the servant who brought you to meet him), but that's simply in keeping with her general feelings of vengeance. She more or less always wants people who have wronged her or you to receive harsh payback (just check out her typical approval reactions to prisoner judgment). In the case of the guy she wants to kill, she ends up just as ready to approve the arrangement when you find a nonlethal way of getting back at him, forcing him to humble himself to your cause (and, by extension, hers).

As for Vivienne, much as I hate her, I think the game is consistent enough in characterizing her as a person whose primary action is to get herself connected -- by whatever means necessary -- to anyone whom she perceives can increase her power and social standing. Considering how little she had to personally do, she impressively manages to get some inquisitors to round up hard-to-find circle tomes for her, and to fetch a cure for her dying lover (a relationship itself clearly calculated for the power it generates -- something which is barely even subtextual when Bastien's family visits Skyhold). If she perceives that a romantic attraction from the inquisitor can be used to her advantage, she'll never explicitly turn you down -- always leading you on, allowing you to think that maybe just one more favor will finally get her to say yes. Cole even lets Vivienne's backroom machinations slip during some of his dialogue when both of them are in the party -- that she manipulated Bastien into a trap of sorts. Vivienne doesn't do anything to help the Inquisition because she's not there to help the Inquisition. She's there to be associated with someone powerful, and gain the favors that association comes with. The showing part of Vivienne's character is admittedly less overt than with Sera, but that subtlety is The Game in action. Any more obvious, and she might get caught.

I'll acknowledge that Vivienne is still ultimately more telling than showing -- we are asked to accept her reputation and skill without many opportunities to directly witness the master at play (Halamshiral would have been a great place for a cutscene or something involving Vivienne playing the crowd to her advantage -- instead we are simply told afterward through dialogue that she made sure that no matter what happened it would benefit her). But Sera, I really do think there's enough actual evidence there.


I guess it's a matter of interpretation, as I would think "caring about and helping the little people" is more about directly providing aid to them rather than getting revenge on their oppressors. Yes, your examples do show that Sera is connected to the little people, as they are her sources of information and lead to her and the Inquisition getting resources as a result. I don't recall any of her missions being about providing relief to the little people rather than just revenge. There was one war table mission where we waylay a caravan and can distribute its goods, I think, so maybe she gives approval for that?

But she seems to be all about getting back at nobles to avenge the little people, but that has no tangible benefit to the little people other than their gratitude. Why doesn't she have a mission where the focus is to steal supplies meant for antagonists and deliver them to a village? She seems just as much an opportunist as Vivienne, using the Inquisition to further her own agenda, she just frames it as the opposite side of the power spectrum as Viv.

True, the game is consistent with portraying Vivienne. My issue is that in order to have her be so smart and manipulative, everyone around her is dumbed down to let her get away with it. Why does the Inquisitor at no point ask her to actually deliver on her promises and provide resources? Why are we not allowed to kick her out once she's been recruited? And honestly, she should have had a much larger presence in the Winter Palace. It was such a waste that she was treated exactly the same as the other companions on her home turf. As a character, she really felt like Bio built up this persona, dropped her in the game, and then forgot to actually connect her to the world.

I think Sera could have had a great role in the Freeman subplot, as that is all about disenfranchised little people caught in the Civil War and them taking control over their fates. I'm surprised she didn't have more to say about it or more involvement.
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#115
vbibbi

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Yeah. There's plenty of evidence that Sera cares for the little people. Just about any quest where you help the disadvantaged gains approval, and then there are her comments about the dead elven servants in the Winter Palace. I really think that if you pay attention then her character is perfectly understandable and consistent.

Part of the problem may be that to see all this you need to take her with you on a regular basis, which those who dislike her are understandably disinclined to do.


I don't think Sera DOESN'T care about the little people, I think she cares about them in a very immature and selfish way. She reminds me of the stereotype of a young political activist who is more interested in the attention and outrage they can generate than actually following through on their cause.
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#116
YourFunnyUncle

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I don't think Sera DOESN'T care about the little people, I think she cares about them in a very immature and selfish way. She reminds me of the stereotype of a young political activist who is more interested in the attention and outrage they can generate than actually following through on their cause.

In a way she is, but she doesn't actually think that it's in her power to fundamentally change Theodosian society. She thinks that the best she can do is raise a smile among the oppressed. There's a revealing banter with Solas about that:
 

Solas: I do not understand you, Sera. You do not have an end goal for your organization.
Sera: Nobles get rattled, and people get payback. I play in the middle.
Solas: Why not go all the way? You see injustice. And you have organized a group to fight it. Don't you want to replace it with something better?
Sera: What, just lop off the top? What does that do, except make a new top to frig it all up?
Solas: I...forgive me. You are right. You are fine as you are.
Sera: You hurt my head sometimes, Solas.
Solas: Yes, I have been known to do that.


Given what we know about Solas's past, who's the wiser? ;)


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#117
akbogert

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I guess it's a matter of interpretation, as I would think "caring about and helping the little people" is more about directly providing aid to them rather than getting revenge on their oppressors. Yes, your examples do show that Sera is connected to the little people, as they are her sources of information and lead to her and the Inquisition getting resources as a result. I don't recall any of her missions being about providing relief to the little people rather than just revenge. There was one war table mission where we waylay a caravan and can distribute its goods, I think, so maybe she gives approval for that?

But she seems to be all about getting back at nobles to avenge the little people, but that has no tangible benefit to the little people other than their gratitude. Why doesn't she have a mission where the focus is to steal supplies meant for antagonists and deliver them to a village? She seems just as much an opportunist as Vivienne, using the Inquisition to further her own agenda, she just frames it as the opposite side of the power spectrum as Viv.

True, the game is consistent with portraying Vivienne. My issue is that in order to have her be so smart and manipulative, everyone around her is dumbed down to let her get away with it. Why does the Inquisitor at no point ask her to actually deliver on her promises and provide resources? Why are we not allowed to kick her out once she's been recruited? And honestly, she should have had a much larger presence in the Winter Palace. It was such a waste that she was treated exactly the same as the other companions on her home turf. As a character, she really felt like Bio built up this persona, dropped her in the game, and then forgot to actually connect her to the world.

I think Sera could have had a great role in the Freeman subplot, as that is all about disenfranchised little people caught in the Civil War and them taking control over their fates. I'm surprised she didn't have more to say about it or more involvement.

 

Never mind kicking Vivienne out -- I expected her to just leave. She disapproves just about everything, and is a miser with approval. I'd love to see her gone, too, so I do think it's odd that the only way to avoid her is to never invite her in the first place. And since that was something several of my inquisitors would have wanted to do, but couldn't, you make a good point that her "skill" at not getting caught in The Game is somewhat contrived. If her power hunger is so obvious to players, then the inability to call her out on it and/or stop her is bad.

 

Sure, Sera could've been used more. I don't think anyone expected her motivations to be under this level of scrutiny, I'd guess. For the most part, the game seems content with backing up verbal claims from characters with their approval system. Iron Bull loves fighting, and he approves essentially whenever you fight. Varric hates red lyrium and approves whenever you destroy it (or defeat red templars). And Sera claims to care about "the little people" and grants approval whenever you do so. She never once approved the killing of anyone that didn't directly wrong her or the inquisition, and usually prefers the nonlethal approach -- pranks -- to get back at others. I think she recognizes that the problems she cares about are either inevitable due to the way society works, or big enough that even the Red Jennies cannot deal with them alone. 

 

But on a different note, or perhaps a more important one, Sera grows throughout the game. She is childish and immature when you meet her, and that irreverence will never completely go away. But the right interactions with her get her to change her views on things, to accept that there's substance to the stories and religions she has brushed aside her whole life, to recognize that people can change. The whole focus of the cookie scene is Sera recognizing that she was tricked into disliking something in life, and wanting to redeem it. 

 

The truth is, when you confront Sera directly about why she joined the Inquisition, she openly admits it's for personal reasons as much as anything. She is exceedingly cynical/skeptical about a great deal, but knows that seeing the world and encountering new ideas is ultimately for the best, even if it's frightening. She loves when you help her out with the pranks, but she'll stand by you even if you don't play that game (as long as you don't flip out at her about it). And for what it's worth, those pranks aren't always just about harm. The justification she gives for the Skyhold jokes is to raise the soldiers' morale. 

 

You're not wrong about Sera's initial behavior -- she is immature when you meet her. But she matures a great deal with a strong, guiding hand. Work in progress? Sure. But then she's not the only one. Leliana is similar: she is quick to lash out and respond harshly to things. She can learn to be more careful, less violent, but it requires patience and sometimes strictness. I wonder sometimes how few people actually soften Leliana, because it's very easy not to. 

 

Anyhow, I guess that's just how I've come to see her. She eventually became my favorite companion in the game (not to mention favorite LI), so I tend to chafe a bit when I perceive dislike of her to be rooted in not having given her a chance. They definitely made her a harder character to see depth in, but that's because she's like a real person who is heavily guarded and puts up a front to keep people at arms length. Not everyone has the time or patience to bother with that, and first impressions can be quite strong. But with all the time I've spent with her in the game, I really do think that the good intentions and heart are there to be found, and that it's not simply childish pettiness driving her. 



#118
vbibbi

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@ YourFunnyUncle (my computer is not cooperating with quotes today)

You raise a good point re Sera not believing she/the Red Jennies can
make fundamental changes in society. That does seem to be an important
aspect of her political stance and is a big reason behind her
vengeance rather than relief work attitude. I would have liked this
explored more and perhaps have the ability to give her hope that she
can make more of a lasting difference than she believes. This is why I
think it was a missed opportunity not to have her involved with
Fairbanks/the Freemen.

@akbogert

You're right, the most "positive" actions I've had from Sera are the
approval responses to unrelated content. Helping the injured Avvar son
rather than the hunter stands out, and there were some other approvals
which I thought were nice touches. I still just wish there were more
Sera-specific content which was more beneficial to the
disenfranchised.

Maybe I interpreted the cookie scene differently, because it does seem
like it could be the start of her maturing, but then I believe there
is no further development in the base game, and two years later in
Trespasser she's a lot more easy going. And this is with the Temple of
Mythal in between where she breaks up with a Dalish IQ who doesn't
renounce their religion. I feel like her character is going in five
separate directions at once, and never coalesces into a complete
persona by the end of the game.

This is not to say I dislike Sera; I realize I've been complaining
about her this entire thread, as I do wish she were a better realized
character than what we got. But I do enjoy her for what she is, and
is usually the rogue in my party. But I have to treat her as the
friend who I would never actually discuss anything serious with and
wouldn't rely on for much. She's the fairweather friend who is fun to
be around when she feels like it, but I can't expect more from her. In
real life I could not be close with someone like that, which taints my
overall impression of her.

For both her and Vivienne, I think a major problem for me in how
they're presented is that I have to RP a very specific PC in order to
get along with them without metagaming. Their approval is a minefield
to get through and while I can bump up Vivienne's approval in
dialogues, I find it very hard to gain Sera's approval even taking the
highest yield conversation options. I dislike that NPCs force me to
play as a specific personality in order to access a lot of their
content.

In the previous two games, I could still get high approval (or high
friendship OR rivalry) from companions without having to play a
certain way. We can gain respect from Sten even if we fundamentally
disagree on major issues. We can get to know Morrigan and become her
only friend even if we don't agree with her ruthless outlook on
societal natural selection. And this isn't purely through spamming
gifts, but dialogue and performing their personal quests. Even Fenris
and Anders, who are often too one-note, have differing methods of
gaining approval; Fenris dislikes mages but also slavers, so we can be
pro mage but still be his friend by fighting slavery. Anders can gain
friendship through anti-demon and blood magic sentiment, even if we
support Templars. It does require more metagaming for them, but it's
still possible to disagree with them and continue the relationship.

For Sera I have to play as an anti-establishment irreverent PC and not
take my role as Inquisitor too seriously in order to gain her
approval. And I normally don't play this way; I had one playthrough
romancing her as a Qunari female who didn't care about being IQ and
that was easy to gain max approval from her. But that's the only time.
I want to be able to play as I want and still be able to access all of
her content, even if we're not agreeing on every issue. I wanted more
opportunities like using the noble perk to recruit Harmond, and then
convince her later how that was beneficial to her even though it
wasn't her preferred outcome.

For Vivienne, it's more egregious that we have to be pro-Chantry and
Circle in order to fully gain her support. She out of any companions
should realize that political alliances don't rely on shared views all
the time, that politics makes for strange bedfellows and that if she
is to gain any advantage in her joining the Inquisition, she shouldn't
throw hissy fits and should always be a "friend" to the Inquisitor, no
matter her personal opinion of us. Yes, if we actively work against
her plans it's fair for her to lose approval, but the only instance of
this would be rejecting her quest for the white wyvern heart. Even
rejecting finding the Circle tomes shouldn't upset her too much, as
the Inquisitor clearly has better things to do than pick up three
random books for her (never mind that we should have just
requisitioned our troops to find them for her instead). That's why I
disagree when people say she's well written even if we don't agree
with her. I think the potential for her character is there, but she's
still a shallow version of what she should have been as a scheming
politician.
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#119
berelinde

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I feel like her character is going in five
separate directions at once, and never coalesces into a complete
persona by the end of the game.
 
I used to wonder about that, too. She's constantly horning in on other people's schticks. Iron Bull likes dragons? So does she! Blackwall is passionate about fighting darkspawn? She is too! She is going in five separate directions at once... but that's something rudderless young people often do before they figure out what they're going to do with their lives. It's an experimental phase, a natural part of growing up, where people traditionally join causes and embark on crusades they will regret when they're older and hesitate before listing on their resumes. There's a very good reason why "angry young man" is such a common character trope. Sometimes, the interest in a particular cause or ideology sticks, but a lot of the time, what seemed very important at 22 will seem a lot less important at 26, especially if there are bills to pay. And her breaking up with an Inquisitor who doesn't renounce the elven gods at her request is completely in line with that. In 9:44 Dragon, she'll have mellowed enough to consider things rationally, but in 9:42 Dragon, she can't deal with anything that threatens her belief system. People who are confident in their beliefs are usually a lot more tolerant of the beliefs of others. Sera's passionate rejection of all things elven tells me that her faith isn't as strong as all that. A lot of that is her doing. She doesn't enjoy introspection, so it's taking her longer to grow than it otherwise might.
 
Sera is trying to connect with people she respects, and she's doing it by acquiring their causes along with their stuff. Think about her Cabinet of Wonder Whose It Was. She collects stuff from everywhere she's been, adding new items as the story progresses and her relationship with the Inquisitor develops. She doesn't have a family to ground her to a culture or identity, so she's building one out of stuff she finds lying around. It's her touchstone, a tangible thing that represents who she is and where she's been.
 
But yeah, I haven't been able to romance her. Part of me keeps saying "She is so not ready for a serious relationship." And I don't really want to have to mentor her that intensively. So I tend to run characters who befriend her on a casual basis. If I wanted to go out drinking the night before final exams, she is definitely the friend I would call, but I wouldn't trust her to pick me up at the airport. Oddly enough, I always finish the game with her at max approval. I have no idea how that happens.
 

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#120
YourFunnyUncle

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I used to wonder about that, too. She's constantly horning in on other people's schticks. Iron Bull likes dragons? So does she! Blackwall is passionate about fighting darkspawn? She is too! 

While there's something to what you say in that she seems to be looking for a stable place to belong, I can't agree with this. She was in Denerim during the blight. Damn right she hates Darkspawn, and she doesn't need Blackwall for that. Nor is there any real reason to suppose that she is copying Bull in her love of dragon fights.

 

I think she's certainly angry and sick of being told that she's wrong, particularly in relation to matters Elven, so she's put up an argumentative shield. A large part of her distaste for Elven culture is because she was constantly told that she was not a "real elf" by the Dalish and others, and I agree that it's down to this much more than her Andrastian faith that she delivers the ultimatum to an Elven Inquisitor; she thinks that they will end up just like all the rest by telling her that she's an idiot. She's young and stubborn and needs to learn by experience, not by being told what to think, which is why I think it takes her a year or two in a supportive environment with true friends to be able to mellow.

 

Also, she can have more wisdom than people give her credit for, in her own way...

 

This from Jaws of Hakkon after finding one of Ameridan's Memories:

Spoiler


#121
vbibbi

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I used to wonder about that, too. She's constantly horning in on other people's schticks. Iron Bull likes dragons? So does she! Blackwall is passionate about fighting darkspawn? She is too! She is going in five separate directions at once... but that's something rudderless young people often do before they figure out what they're going to do with their lives. It's an experimental phase, a natural part of growing up, where people traditionally join causes and embark on crusades they will regret when they're older and hesitate before listing on their resumes. There's a very good reason why "angry young man" is such a common character trope. Sometimes, the interest in a particular cause or ideology sticks, but a lot of the time, what seemed very important at 22 will seem a lot less important at 26, especially if there are bills to pay. And her breaking up with an Inquisitor who doesn't renounce the elven gods at her request is completely in line with that. In 9:44 Dragon, she'll have mellowed enough to consider things rationally, but in 9:42 Dragon, she can't deal with anything that threatens her belief system. People who are confident in their beliefs are usually a lot more tolerant of the beliefs of others. Sera's passionate rejection of all things elven tells me that her faith isn't as strong as all that. A lot of that is her doing. She doesn't enjoy introspection, so it's taking her longer to grow than it otherwise might.

Sera is trying to connect with people she respects, and she's doing it by acquiring their causes along with their stuff. Think about her Cabinet of Wonder Whose It Was. She collects stuff from everywhere she's been, adding new items as the story progresses and her relationship with the Inquisitor develops. She doesn't have a family to ground her to a culture or identity, so she's building one out of stuff she finds lying around. It's her touchstone, a tangible thing that represents who she is and where she's been.

But yeah, I haven't been able to romance her. Part of me keeps saying "She is so not ready for a serious relationship." And I don't really want to have to mentor her that intensively. So I tend to run characters who befriend her on a casual basis. If I wanted to go out drinking the night before final exams, she is definitely the friend I would call, but I wouldn't trust her to pick me up at the airport. Oddly enough, I always finish the game with her at max approval. I have no idea how that happens.


Some good points, and that does help to characterize her for me. It doesn't really change my opinion of her but does help flesh out the character we're presented with.

I think for a romance with her, she would be someone who needs a few years maturity before being able to have a long term mature relationship. Any relationship she would have at this point would either have to reinforce her immaturity (or at least give it a pass) or have a temporary break while she matures.

I don't think I've ever had max approval with her except the PT where I romanced her. Too many of my preferred main plot choices go against her ideals.

#122
Melbella

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I think she's certainly angry and sick of being told that she's wrong, particularly in relation to matters Elven, so she's put up an argumentative shield. A large part of her distaste for Elven culture is because she was constantly told that she was not a "real elf" by the Dalish and others,

 

This is one things that always confuses me about Sera. She grew up in the Denerim alienage. When, during that time, would she encounter enough Dalish to be constantly told by them that she's not a real elf? It's also contradicted by her cookie story: she grew up hating all things elven, including herself, because of what her stepmother did. I don't understand why she has hatred for the Dalish other than it's just an extension of her general elf-hating. Which, based on the cookie conversation, is recognized by her as a bad thing and maybe not something she should harp on constantly. Yet, she regresses after Mythal and is back to hating all thing elfy because...elfy.


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#123
DarkAmaranth1966

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I can't stand Sera and, yes I've tried befriending her, even romancing her but, she refuses to learn. Arrows in shite is her only response to anything she dislikes or doesn't understand so, pretty much to everything. I don't do too stupid to listen to advice in RL and, I'm not doing it in a game. Just like the step son that is banned form my property for life, she refuses to follow directions and refuses to think that things might be more complex than she thinks or, that she might be wrong about anything. (except raisin cookies on a roof being a good idea.)

 

She reminds me of the person that's been dumped by 50 partners and insists it's the other person's fault 100%, refusing to see that that they themselves might have a problem. (Stepson and, he's been kicked out of five places he lived with people - sounds just like Sera to me.) She is the problem in a lot of cases but, in her feeble mind, it's them that's the problem.

 

Vivienne I understand, I don't like her but, she is what she has to be to gain power and a place of respect in Orlais, she is manipulative and, a wonderful actress but, she knows it's just a game. Sera honestly thinks arrows in shite is really the only solution needed.

 

I don't feel bad about disliking her, I'd dislike her if she were the modern, real life equivalent too. I'd dislike Viv but, I'd respect her at least.


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#124
ThePhoenixKing

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This is one things that always confuses me about Sera. She grew up in the Denerim alienage. When, during that time, would she encounter enough Dalish to be constantly told by them that she's not a real elf? It's also contradicted by her cookie story: she grew up hating all things elven, including herself, because of what her stepmother did. I don't understand why she has hatred for the Dalish other than it's just an extension of her general elf-hating. Which, based on the cookie conversation, is recognized by her as a bad thing and maybe not something she should harp on constantly. Yet, she regresses after Mythal and is back to hating all thing elfy because...elfy.

 

That's actually a really good point. You go back to the City Elf Origin, and there's some debate amongst the alienage folk about whether or not the Dalish even actually exist. How the hell would Sera have enough experiences with them to come to any sort of judgment, negative or otherwise?

 

But then again, maybe that's on me trying to expect consistant writing and lore from Bioware these days...


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#125
akbogert

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That's actually a really good point. You go back to the City Elf Origin, and there's some debate amongst the alienage folk about whether or not the Dalish even actually exist. How the hell would Sera have enough experiences with them to come to any sort of judgment, negative or otherwise?

 

But then again, maybe that's on me trying to expect consistant writing and lore from Bioware these days...

 

Do we know how long she has been on her own? Obviously a lot happened between growing up in the alienage and us meeting her outside Val Royeaux. Why wouldn't she have had plenty of time to cross paths with Dalish?