117 réponses à ce sujet

[Dalakaar]

PredvblueP

 

Lets talk about it.

 

First off, the nay-sayers. If you're dead set against it, why? Take away funding? Just plain not liking PvP isn't enough, because the game could simply have both. I've read a few times of people that just flat out don't want it at all. Not even the option.

 

If you don't like PvP, why not? Have you tried it? If so, what game/experience etc?

 

I used to hate it for years and years. Then I started it, and still hated it for a year or two... but did it usually because the roommates cajoled me into it.

 

...eventually though. I got into it in a big way. But I got into two separate groups that did very well at it, and more importantly made it hella fun. In almost any PvP game/situation you always want a good(great) team you can count on as opposed to going it solo. But sometimes you don't have a choice.

 

***

 

Second... let's say you're all in. It should happen, it should already have happened!

 

How would you implement it? What are the pitfalls you could foresee/want to avoid?

 

For myself I'd like it as an option but I want good ole coop option as well.

 

My take...

 

Easily foreseeable pitfall, balancing Crowd Control. This game has a lot of it, and if you can use things like Singularity on players I can see balancing CC with Diminishing Returns. They do already have one measure in place to prevent too much ridiculousness spawned from powers though. Shield/Barrier/Armor resistance to CC. Like in the Singularity case, it primes/dots on anything but doesn't disable till you're at health. Although you then have to take Slows into account... it can also be too much. A CC based kit can't be too easily nuked by something that can just "Immune" itself to victory. There have to be options for those light cc kits to pierce immunities in some fashion.

 

Phasics and Shieldgating would need to be tuned. Along with Healthgate. I just get the feeling that there are a lot of issues that would come out of numerous competitive gameplay situations that we don't encounter in PvE. Just a hunch though. Either removed and rebalanced taking those limitations out into account; maybe finely tuned so every kit/build is expecting to have to deal with gates and have a (relatively) equal ability to do so.

 

Better matchmaking/connecting. But this just needs to happen in general. #d i s t a n c e causeslag

 

Be fun if you could control the enemy. Similar to L4D's zombie spawn control. Albeit that was *not* balanced well. Seeing a human player actually take control of a Collector could be fun. Make the whole Possession concept part of it, fits perfectly. I'd love to take control of a Brute and charge headlong into a Krogan. Even if I could sync-kill him. I wouldn't. That would be a fun headbash. Regardless of who wins.

 

Anyways... this isn't going to happen in ME:A I'm sure, and don't rightly expect it. Just curious what your take on it would be currently.

[Salarian Master Race]

If Bioware can figure a way to make it work and be balanced, why the hell not.  Of course there are people who hate PvP and would vehemently oppose it, but there were and are still even those who feel that way about co-op multiplayer.

 

Single player peasants are a selfish lot.  They think that if they don't like something, no one else should have it.  They are surely a minority, but a rather vocal one at that.

[The NightMan Cometh]

LOL. nope.

 

Balancing would be a nightmare.

 

 

Do you remember Mass Effect 1 when you were facing Biotic enemies?

[Salarian Master Race]

LOL. nope.

 

Balancing would be a nightmare.

 

 

Do you remember Mass Effect 1 when you were facing Biotic enemies?

 

ENEMIES EVERYWHERE!!

 

[Dalakaar]

If Bioware can figure a way to make it work and be balanced, why the hell not.  Of course there are people who hate PvP and would vehemently oppose it, but there were and are still even those who feel that way about co-op multiplayer.

 

Single player peasants are a selfish lot.  They think that if they don't like something, no one else should have it.  They are surely a minority, but a rather vocal one at that.

Ever heard of Pornshire? They can be vocal. And selfish.

 

Balancing would be a nightmare.

 

 

Do you remember Mass Effect 1 when you were facing Biotic enemies?

Yes, It would be a nightmare. And the only way I'd want PvP is if they faced that nightmare head on. A nightmare I don't think a PvE based team would be up for. They'd have to hire experience they might not already possess. I do say "might" though. I don't know the MP Team's resumes.

 

My Infiltrator remembers sniper rifles, elevators, dealing with a cumbersome inventory, and most importantly. Saving for your SPECTRE pistol and getting 100% uptime Marksman, and then a brief interlude called "most of the game" and then the ending. Oh and geth had frogs for some reason. That was. Odd... Glad they didn't make it through the 1 - 2 gauntlet of mass forgetfulness.

[larsdt]

I have tried a couple of games where you combine character build and PvP. Like in ME3 some builds end up being OP and experienced players try "inferior" builds to see if they can be competitive.

 

As mentioned, balancing is issue #1. Look how long it took to develop the Starcraft sequels. Blizzard knew how important balancing was to their huge PvP community.

 

I consider myself a casual PvP. I've had my ass whopped too many times by 10 year old kids in Counterstrike. I do like games like Tekken if I'm hanging out with friends and we are sitting in front of the tube and the fridge is filled with beer.

[Mgamerz]

Literally just played true friendly fire mod where you can shoot teammates. You have way too little health. But damn is it funny. I also blew everyones heads off.

[Deerber]

I'm not 100% against it, but I don't think it would be a good idea.

Balancing it would be a nightmare and would most likely require the pvp aspect to be so completely and radically different that it wouldn't feel like ME anymore. Waaaay too much CC among the powers.

So, it would require a lot of time and energy and money which I think would be better spent into the SP or, better yet, into the co-op portion of the game.

Also, and maybe most importantly, community. I don't know about you, but the truth is that I wouldn't have played a tenth of what I've done of ME3MP if it wasn't for this place and this community. You might think it's a bit caustic and competitive at times, but I dare anyone who's ever been in a PvP gaming community to say that. We've had so much fun over the years, helped each orher so much. You don't see that in PvP communities. This community is a jewel, and PvP would change the nature of it. I don't think that's something I'd want in exchange for another game mode, probably poorly balanced. Also, PvP would split it between those who play co-op and those who play PvP, and I don't think thr playerbase is big enough for that yet.

[Loufi]

^Thanks Deerber, you just saved me some time. 100% my thoughts.

[Operator m1]

Literally just played true friendly fire mod where you can shoot teammates. You have way too little health. But damn is it funny. I also blew everyones heads off.

I'd like to see this mod.

[Gago]

I love PVP but it would be tricky to implement it. 

[AW_FC_1986]

Since PvP always attracts cheaters, there is no way I would actually like this mode. PvE is less annoying this way. Also I really love Co-OP games. That's why I have played ME 3 MP so much. If I really would like to play vs. other players, I would play Battlefield, CoD or SW Battlefront.

[PatrickBateman]

PVP is a lot more competitive in nature and that usually brings out the worst in us, especially when playing against annonymous people we will never meet (no need to care about the consequences from insulting strangers etc).

If there is to be PVP I'd like to have it as a separate mode completely with separate leader boards and manifests. Doubt I'd spend that much time on it myself, MEMP in it's current state is the perfect form of MP for me as it is.

[DaemionMoadrin]

PvP is a bad idea for ME. You'd have to change the entire system. Weapons, powers, shields, health, cover mechanics... just to make it work. Better netcode, too.

 

Or would anyone enjoy playing against a GI with Javelin? You'd be dead before you see anything and your only chance would be using a Geth Scanner yourself. How exciting.

 

People buy ME for the single player. SP gameplay doesn't work for PvP MP, which means the MP would essentially have to be a standalone game.

 

Assuming you somehow manage to have a balanced MP game (which is incredibly difficult), you'd then have to prevent cheating (and there will be lots of cheaters). As someone who spent quite some time in PvP communities I can tell you that we wouldn't even have 10% of the fun we have now.

[HusarX]

It's a good idea cos' the more ways you have to play this game, the better. Pvp haters gonna ignore this mode anyway, so nothing changes for them.

 

 

Anyway, weapons/gear need to be balanced separately from the PvE mode, just like singleplayer weapons are quite more powerful than their multiplayer versions (Adas , Venom).

 

About powers :

- they can work as killstreaks (Destiny).

- or their use gonna be limited per life (CoD AW).

- or they gonna be more of a  support  ("Tactical Cloak" in Halo).

- or a combination of all above

- obviously they need to be balanced differently form the PVE mode. There is a reason why ME3 doesn't have ME1 Singularity...

 

Power combos gonna be problematic "to translate" into a pvp setting. 

 

The importance of stagger must decreased. And ofc dedicated servers are mandatory.

[Olivia Wilde]

My only PvP experience was Tomb Raider's lame multiplayer mode

[sabreracer]

First I don't like PvP in a PvE game but some do so.................

 

However Warframe started as PvE and that is still the main focus but enough people wanted it so the devs added it

 

Completely unbalanced, so they tried some adjustments and added a separate game zone for it.  Massive amounts of cheating and complaints of multiple OHKs.

 

That got suspended and then they started from basics slowly drip feeding frames and weapons into it over months.  From all accounts things are much better but it's basically a separate game with powers and weapons being very different from the main game.

 

Budget wise I doubt that it would be worthwhile to try to implement it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The biggest balance problem with a game that includes PVP is that in the end, the game must be balanced for them in priority, because otherwise it's not fair.

 

And the PvE balance suffers for it. SWTOR had to completely trash certain classes and re-build them to balance for PvP. The rebalancing was so severe that, for example, the Smuggler had two major abilities (including its signature ability that accounted for the bulk of its offense) completely eliminated. Not nerfed, not balanced, eliminated completely. Why? In the case of Sabotage, the burst damage was very high and the refresh was very low. You could barely use it in a PvP encounter, but every time you did, it was basically an OSK ability, and the PvP players spent years complaining about it.

 

Eventually, BioWare relented, and while the Smuggler was not gimped out of existence, it suffered a massive hit to what made it fun, balanced, and offensively viable in PvE. And I'm talking about characters that people had invested hundreds of hours into leveling up from 1 to 60, spent millions of credits improving and building around their abilities, only to have it undone and their characters reset so that the PvP balance could be served.

 

PvP may be a minority of the players, but fairness in their arena simply must take priority over balance of the rest of the game, and that makes sense. I may think it's unfair that my Smuggler got boned by it, but once I learned to adjust to everything new, the enemies didn't have much of an advantage over me that I couldn't overcome with other abilities. I don't care for PvP, but I can certainly recognize that a medic who can OSK enemies a few times a match is a vastly overpowered character that absolutely must be dealt with.

 

And thus, the existence of PvP literally harmed the PvE component of the game - the much larger, and recognized focus and purpose of the game.

 

I'm comparing MMOs to a TPS RPG, which isn't a directly fair comparison, but given that they do have a lot of similarities, and are made by the same company, I'm still firmly in the "no PvP" camp for Mass Effect. It's not because I think players who enjoy PvP are bad, or that they don't deserve good balancing when it is included, it's that I don't want the quality of ME 3's balance (already a nightmare) to be further diluted/harmed by adding a game mode whose balance takes priority over the basic campaign/PvE co-op.

[Salarian Master Race]

I'm just going to leave this here.  This is a video of my friend Pete and I, as Illuminati, totally wiping out the entire Templar force at our Anima Fort.  Pete was the melee glance tank, I was a ranged dps with leach heals.  The video was taken by Pete so you only catch a few glimpses of my character in the background.  This was tremendous fun and I wish that game didn't suck now but lolfuncom.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/rakhabit/c/842484

[Berta]

ENEMIES EVERYWHERE!!

 

 

 

I cried and laughed while facing biotics. I WILL DESTROY YOU! I WILL DESTROY YOU! ENEMIES EVERYWHERE! Who seriously thought it was a good idea to add battle cries that repeat and repeat?

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

If I really would like to play vs. other players, I would play Battlefield, CoD or SW Battlefront.

Totally agree. This is exactly what I've always said when this topic comes up. Those are all games with awesomely detailed PvP modes. Some of them have co-op modes as well, BTW. Black Ops II Zombies, Battlefield 3 co-op missions, SWBF co-op mission sets.

 

As to balance, I don't believe Bioware have the balancing skills to make PvP work. It's a lot harder, and requires long term management of the game. Even Treyarch and DICE find it hard at times, and they have years of experience balancing delicate PvP systems.

 

I'd prefer it if Bioware stick to what they are good at.

[Salarian Master Race]

SWBF co-op mission sets.

 

 

Single White Bi Female missions?

 

I should go.

[Terminator Force]

Literally just played true friendly fire mod where you can shoot teammates. You have way too little health. But damn is it funny. I also blew everyones heads off.

 

Again. I so wish you could of heard my madness laughter.

 

And we should also tell everyone Asari's have pink blood.

[rspanther]

The only PvP that I tried was Titanfall. And I found out the hard way that my reflexes just weren't fast enough. Dying every 30 seconds just wasn't fun.

[gothpunkboy89]

The game lacks a lot of balance that would be needed to make this viable. Other wise it would just be restricted to 1 or 2 builds. And all others wouldn't have a chance to compete.

 

I just doubt they would be able to effectively pull it off.