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[The Real Pearl #2]

First, all that video proves is there are people out there with way WAY too much free time on their hands, who can take the pursuit of fun with video games and turn it into a complete boring chore to learn one map and spawn points timing perfectly.

You sound like a salty gears of war player who got splattered with a shotty seven times. 
Only salty players demean people for being good at the game. I learn the maps in the mp and enemy spawn points and AI behaivor in a matter of casual play and thanks to guys like Bwnci and N7Specops. Are they no lifes too? 

[Dovakiin_N7]

Bizarre and speculative thread.

[Dalakaar]

Bizarre and speculative thread.

If only all my topics could be said to be thus!

Interesting 4 pages imho.

[Salarian Master Race]

 

Do you really want me to shitpost about 500 different videos and articles across multiple games to explain what should be an extremely easy concept to grasp; that a weapon with a TTK of 0> a weapon which requires multiple tenths to multiple seconds to fire multiple rounds and produce the same result, aiming speed and skill being neutral between the two? 

 

we r hewmins.  wellcome 2 erf.  A/S/L???

[DaemionMoadrin]

First, all that video proves is there are people out there with way WAY too much free time on their hands, who can take the pursuit of fun with video games and turn it into a complete boring chore to learn one map and spawn points timing perfectly.

 

I'm sure that player could achieve the same net result with lots of different set ups and weapons because they have the super human power of ignoring their own boredom to be able to create replicable, predictable results.

 

Second, as we are talking about the dynamics and parameters for a game mode that doesn't exist, how do you know that BC won't target a cloaked enemy? I can certainly do that in the current ME3MP game. If that happens on any open area map, then your QMI is dead

 

Third, Cain Mines are LOS, you are correct, however they have proximity based detonation. So all you would need to do is set 3 of them up at the exact spawn point and whenever the next player spawned there, they would die. Then you re-plant 3 more Cain Mines and the cycle would repeat.

 

Oh man, just stop.

 

Have you ever played PvP competitively? Anyone who does trains, memorizes, calculates, adapts and will do anything for even the tiniest advantage. If you don't, if you're a filthy casual... then you're nothing more than a victim. A free kill. No matter how skilled you are, if you don't put in any work, you won't get far.

Sniper rifles are the favored weapons for a reason. People train themselves to use them at any distance precisely because they kill in one shot.

 

You're speculating about PvP without having any significant experience with it. Some of us spent decades playing all kinds of PvP games, maybe we know what we're talking about? ME would have to be changed completely to a point where everything is different just to make it viable for PvP. And then you'd still need to balance it. It would be a completely different game and have nothing to do with ME except for superficial effects.

 

You don't understand the mentality you need to compete in PvP games. People have poured weeks, if not months into boring preparations only to be 2% faster, to do 1.5% more damage... and that is expected.

 

PvP often isn't fun for most of the players because the 1% at the top dominate everything. Do you know what happens when you truly are the best of the best? No one wants to play you anymore because the result is always the same. I usually ended my 1vs1 challenges 30:0. Do you know how much fun it is for a good player if they don't even get a chance to show what they can do? None. Although it is fun listening to them whine.

 

Good doesn't cut it. PvP players will always strive to be the best and in that pursuit mercilessly destroy anyone and anything in their way. The current MP community here? We're casuals. Only a few individuals would survive in a PvP environment.

 

So IF BioWare can change ME:A to be viable for PvP, IF they can balance that hot mess and IF they provide dedicated servers (cause otherwise everyone would want to host, there's too much lag for PvP atm), then you'd still need to attract more players. The current ones won't play PvP, at least not for long. To keep it profitable and running, you'd need tens of thousands new players and a way to finance it.

 

 

Your examples reek of naivety, do you honestly believe a competent player would allow you to place Cain Mines? The moment you move you get shot in the head from across the map. That's not hyperbole, that's PvP players knowing all the sight lines by heart.

Plus, BC has a delay (especially when the target is cloaked) more than long enough to simply drop a few grenades at my feet ... so anyone who charges me will end up in an explosion.

 

 

We can speculate all day long about Mass Effect PvP but in the end it doesn't matter because we already know what PvP communities and players are like. You don't want that here, I can promise you that.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Some of us spent decades playing all kinds of PvP games, maybe we know what we're talking about? ME would have to be changed completely to a point where everything is different just to make it viable for PvP. And then you'd still need to balance it. It would be a completely different game and have nothing to do with ME except for superficial effects.

I won't say I've played PvP for decades - because I haven't - but the strangest part about threads like this is that some people here won't accept that some of us have significant experience with PvP games. CFS, HLDM, CS, BF, SWBF, CoD, TF2, and Halo are among my list, mostly in this decade. I really know of what I speak. And you're absolutely right. PvP is dominated by a few who are slightly better than the rest. The rest have K/D < 1 for their entire career.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I only offer this to illustrate, not because I think any of this is relevant to a potential ME PvP.

 

When I played CoD: WaW multiplayer on the 360, the game had been out for years. The hackers (always wondered why people think you can't hack Xbox) were rampant, probably in 50% of games. The competitive players had long since sorted out all the spawn camping techniques, and nothing was quite as annoying as their ability to throw a grenade with perfectly cooked off timing.

 

If I just ran into a random game using smgs/shotguns/rifles and attempted to play a standard run and gun style, I got my ass handed to me. I couldn't aim as fast as them, I didn't know the tricks, and even after I reached my peak ability knowing the maps etc., I still wouldn't see an even Kill/Death ratio at the end of one of those games, though sometimes I could get close.

 

I've forgotten the name of it (Mosin Nagent, I think) but the game had an old Russian single-shot sniper rifle that you could unlock around level 20. Once I got my hands on it, it became my weapon of choice. It wasn't because I have good aim, and it wasn't because I could quickscope (still can't.) In fact, across almost every shooter I play that tracks such things, my accuracy is about 60%. That's objectively terrible, especially by PvP standards.

 

But I do have a couple of things going for me that most CoD kiddies don't: I'm smart and I have patience.

 

So eventually, on just about every map, I figured out my sniping positions. I would rotate between them as soon as someone got it into their head to find me. Yes, a good player trying to track me down would eventually get me, and then he'd have to figure out which of my sniping points I switched to. If he was smart, he would eventually move off from me, because the effort to take me down wasn't worth the results. If he/she wasn't, they would keep trying to get revenge on me  and pay for it with many deaths.

 

They had "bouncing bettys" and these were essentially my "spotters." I always carried them. There was one perk in the game that let you see them, and anyone determined enough to take that perk was going to get me easily, but anyone else was going to send the message "bouncing betty killed <blank>" and then I knew it was time to move.

 

Using a Mosin Nagent (I'm now quite sure that was the one) even with my terrible aim produced an average kill to death ratio of 12 to 1 for me, against competitive CoD players who were way better at the game than I was. It was basically the only way I could even compete. The only deal was I had to be patient. I had to take good shots and avoid giving my position away on marginal ones. Sure, most of the guys topping the scoreboard had more than 30 kills, but even the really good ones had 10 or 15 deaths to go along with it.

 

Me? I preferred my 12 to 1 ratio. I don't like dying in video games, and I'll take it slow and cautious if I have to.

 

I don't think anyone in the CoD universe was calling the Mosin Nagent an OP weapon. There was a multi-shot semi-auto SR unlocked at level 50 that was ridiculously OP in PvP terms. But, in practical terms, this was rarely an issue, because only a tiny minority of players ever used either of the two rifles.

 

Most PvP players do not have the skill to use a single shot SR effectively, and will never touch it. Even rarer is someone like me who lacks the skill but uses it anyway because he has the patience to wait until the right moment to strike.

 

Single shot SRs do offer a huge advantage, but the vast majority of players won't use them, regardless. So they don't really end up dominating the game, with the exception of a small minority of hardcore players who would dominate regardless of what weapon they were using. So, really, the only people making the SS SR overpowered in PvP terms are, well, the rare birds like me.

[PatrickBateman]

This thread alone is reason enough to skip PVP altogether in ME:A, see how easily it starts to turn hostile even when it's only speculations and theoretical arguments?

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

I wouldn't mind if there was pvp but how do you balance the powers?

Stasis> biotic charge> claymore. Dead

There isn't a way to ballence these powers without changing them completely. And if you do change them, they won't be as fun.

Or if you were to limit pvp powers to certain powers, it could work but would be lame in comparison. Usable powers like incinerate, overload (no neural shock), warp, cryo blast(no freezing solid), singularity (no lift), decoy, tech armour, barrier, blade armour, bloodlust, fortification would be ok but you couldn't really have more than 1 passive power, 1 normal power because a full combo would just kill you anyway, and also introduces team work in team pvp.

[Catastrophy]

How is this even gonna work? Can't wrap my head around it:

 

P2P isn't that about good connections to each other? And now Peer vs Peer - wouldn't that simply negate all the P2P effort? I'm at a loss here.

[TheNightSlasher]

First off, they have to rework a lot of game mechanics to have a successful PvP out of this. Now, I have played 0 PvP shooters in my life but stagger mechanics, combos, powers etc need to be changed - people already complain about geth stagger; players deliver MUCH more stagger and it has to be modified accordingly.

 

If they make a PvP with different game mechanics without sacrificing the core game mechanics of co-op MP, it''ll probably work. That said, I'd like a good SP more than a PvP (co-op PvE is still the first preference).

[Salarian Master Race]

This thread alone is reason enough to skip PVP altogether in ME:A, see how easily it starts to turn hostile even when it's only speculations and theoretical arguments?

 

The forums are where the real PvP happens

 

Most PvP players do not have the skill to use a single shot SR effectively, and will never touch it. Even rarer is someone like me who lacks the skill but uses it anyway because he has the patience to wait until the right moment to strike.

 

Be ze alligator

 

 

PvP often isn't fun for most of the players because the 1% at the top dominate everything. Do you know what happens when you truly are the best of the best? No one wants to play you anymore because the result is always the same. I usually ended my 1vs1 challenges 30:0. Do you know how much fun it is for a good player if they don't even get a chance to show what they can do? None. Although it is fun listening to them whine.

 

 

Back in my day when arcades were still popular, there was a little place uptown called Fun & Pizza.  Once a month they would have a promotional "Family Night" where you paid $5 at the door, and both games and pizza were free all night long.  Sounds like a good time right?

 

Well there was a group of 4 friends who loved to play X-Men vs Street Fighter.  Every time I came up against them, I would wipe them all out, and they would subsequently retreat to their pizza table, swearing at me and about me.  And bear in mind, games were free!

 

Another month went by, another Family Night happened.  The same 4 friends showed up, and it was almost a repeat of the previous month, but with one key difference.  When no one else was around, one of those friends, instead of swearing at me, ASKED me how I was so good at kicking their asses.  So I stopped fighting him, and instead began to demonstrate and explain various things to him.  Serve and uplift, yadda yadda.

 

Another month went by, a third Family Night happened.  Moments after I walked in, the friend approached me and said, "Hey, I've got something to show you."  I stood behind the group and watched as he proceeded to kick their asses and get sweared at.

 

It was the proudest moment of my life.  Yes I do not have one.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'm smart and I have patience.

 

So eventually, on just about every map, I figured out my sniping positions. I would rotate between them as soon as someone got it into their head to find me.

 

They had "bouncing bettys" and these were essentially my "spotters." I always carried them. There was one perk in the game that let you see them, and anyone determined enough to take that perk was going to get me easily, but anyone else was going to send the message "bouncing betty killed <blank>" and then I knew it was time to move.

 

You put in work, you learned and you got better results in return. Unlike casual players who didn't.

That's pretty much what I said earlier.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

You put in work, you learned and you got better results in return. Unlike casual players who didn't.

 

Yes, but CoD did steal 12.72% of my sanity that I will never get back.

 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yes, but CoD did steal 12.72% of my sanity that I will never get back.

 

 

Hehe. Yeah.

 

PvP turned me into a complete ass. I wasn't even remotely nice back then, all I cared about was winning. People only put up with me because my team always won, once I had no time to play anymore they all left me, too.

 

I don't want to be that guy again but I know myself... if I played PvP again... goodbye sanity, hello douchebag. Probably less dramatic than ~13 years ago, but still...

[Mgamerz]

Stasis and lots of other powers stop working on you after a few hits so its really only OP to start with.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Hehe. Yeah.

 

PvP turned me into a complete ass. I wasn't even remotely nice back then, all I cared about was winning. People only put up with me because my team always won, once I had no time to play anymore they all left me, too.

 

I don't want to be that guy again but I know myself... if I played PvP again... goodbye sanity, hello douchebag. Probably less dramatic than ~13 years ago, but still...

 

I didn't jump on the mic or anything. But if anyone had been in the room listening to me curse and swear, well that would be embarrassing (no cell phones or flash photography, please, and video recording is strictly prohibited.)

[DaemionMoadrin]

I didn't jump on the mic or anything. But if anyone had been in the room listening to me curse and swear, well that would be embarrassing (no cell phones or flash photography, please, and video recording is strictly prohibited.)

 

Someone told me later that my standards were too high and that I demanded too much from people. Only because I can do something doesn't mean they can.

 

That actually helped me later in my management courses, soooo... +1 for gaming, I guess?

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Only because I can do something doesn't mean they can.

 

This phenomenon accounts for why the best players sometimes give bad advice. Not that the intentions aren't necessarily good.

[Operator m1]

Stasis and lots of other powers stop working on you after a few hits so its really only OP to start with.

If stasis worked on players as it does enemies, we'd crumple to the floor, leaving us open to slugs in the face while we get back up. Almost like ME1 biotics all over again.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

... the strangest part about threads like this is that some people here won't accept that some of us have significant experience with PvP games. 

 

This thread alone is reason enough to skip PVP altogether in ME:A, see how easily it starts to turn hostile even when it's only speculations and theoretical arguments?

But Patrick, it's not only speculation and theoretical argument - several posters in this thread have PvP experience, a lot of it in some cases.

 

Is PvP a good idea, and can it lead to fun games? Yes, obviously. Look at the success of the examples I quoted.

 

Can Bioware make a good PvP game based on the ME universe? Highly unlikely, based on how they did ME3MP.

[TheTechnoTurian]

I have no strong feelings or opinions one way or the other about this topic, but I still wanted to make a shitpost. Thank you for reading, namaste

[sabreracer]

But Patrick, it's not only speculation and theoretical argument - several posters in this thread have PvP experience, a lot of it in some cases.

 

Is PvP a good idea, and can it lead to fun games? Yes, obviously. Look at the success of the examples I quoted.

 

Can Bioware make a good PvP game based on the ME universe? Highly unlikely, based on how they did ME3MP.

 

PvP can be fun for some and more so with friends (as long as you don't take it seriously) but it really needs to be centred around PvP not trying to crowbar it into a PvE game.

 

Given the howls from the SP vs MP crowd that even PvE exists in a Mass Effect game.  If that was changed to PvP instead. I can hear the psychotic screaming from an alternative Universe already.

 

I think that trying to balance the SP skill/powers to co-op was hard enough Bioware attempting to do so for PvP it wouldn't even be Mass Effect any more.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I have no strong feelings or opinions one way or the other

 

 

 

 

If I don't survive, tell my wife hello.

[wass12]

The PvP in ME3MP would be hilariously unbalanced!

To be fair, any PvP mode that would see the light of day would be (more or less) balanced. But it would either mean that the PvP mode is a shade of the PvE modes, with most interesting and unique powers and mechanics removed, or the two would be on par - because the fun-for-PvE,-but-difficult-to-balance-for-PvP powers weren't even developed. After all, what developer wants to spend time on a mechanic that cannot be used in one half of the game? On that level, PvP and PvE do compete for resourses.