Aller au contenu

Photo

Nothing's left at the end


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
123 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Shizukai

Shizukai
  • Members
  • 112 messages
 

@ComedicSociopathy:

 

You are, of course, completely correct. The OP's point isn't just about Solas and the romance though. Consider what you lose at the end of Trespasser:

 

(1) All independent political and military power

(2) The Anchor

(3) Your arm

(4) Your castle

(5) Your lover

 

Also, you had four opponents in Trespasser - the Viddasala, Solas, Orlais and Ferelden - and you lost against three of them:

 

(1) Ferelden

(2) Orlais

(3) Solas

 

That's a lot of bitter pills to swallow. Personally, I love the Lavellan/Solas scene at the end of Trespasser. I've always understood that some things are more important than love, and it may not hurt less, but at least there was a reason for the breakup I can understand. It's not the end of the world in any way, but things pile up at the end of Trespasser, and the whole pile can make you feel despondent.

 

Having said that, every ending is a beginning, as long as you're not dead. I'd don't really mind having to start from -1 (0 would be with nothing but at least complete), I just hate that I'm not allowed to keep anything I gained in the course of the story, and end up worse than when I started out.

 

I could not have said it any better, really thank you for understanding that I'm no disappointed at angry fangirl because I didn't wear a wedding dress at the very end. The loss of everything I worked to hard for is what hits the hardest. And the romance is a big part of it, I admit. 

 

Being a romantic I really believe (and want to keep on believing in) that love makes a change. But as you said: There were reasons for the breakup. What Solas did with his breakup was trying to protect Lavellan because he knows what is to come.

 

Btw. I believe it was Kafka who was unable to tie down his love interest(s) in a stable relationship for believing that the highest (or purest) form of love is the one not being fulfilled. I like this idea.


  • FiveThreeTen et Venus_L aiment ceci

#27
Karmel

Karmel
  • Members
  • 41 messages
@Shizuaki
Are the comics worth reading?
 
It is not Umberto Eco, but if you can appreciate the value of additional knowledge (I know you can :) ) and you have the time - read. As it turns out you never know what might be useful - even as an anecdote.  :D
 
@Ieldra
 
Maybe you lose a lover - but you do not lose his love.  :wub:
Maybe you lose the hand and the Anchor - but you still alive.  :rolleyes:
And when it comes to Skyhold - I'm not sure fortress can be taken away from you, did not belong to anybody, when you found it, so do not assume the worst ...
The more - the "underground" Inquisition meets in the basement of Haven, to which someone else claims the right.  :whistle:

  • Shizukai aime ceci

#28
Medhia_Nox

Medhia_Nox
  • Members
  • 3 530 messages

@Shizukai:  Yes, being brutally honest is both a boon (people know where I stand) and a curse (it's rude) - but it's my nature and I'm glad you didn't feel the need to defend your position because in your playthrough it is your story and my opinion amounts to less than nothing in it.  

 

I actually really like the "elves in slavery" concept.  Not because I like slavery, nor because I generally dislike elves (note, I love everything about Shadowrun, it is my favorite IP, so that includes the elves) - from a storytelling standpoint I am actually really annoyed that they aren't exploring it in any real sense.  What average elves might do to liberate themselves from mundane slavery.  Instead - they put super magical elves (Solas and a threat of a world ending cataclysm as the liberator - and I feel it is cheap storytelling.  

 

Fantasy can be an excellent way to explore concepts safely - but it's often infantilized by big flashy effects and events.  I like "Blight as corruption" or "Fade as though/imagination." they're interesting fantasy concepts that kinda discuss things philosophically... but "mind control super saiyans who want to blast the world" becomes too super-hero for me and I think it cheapens any real thought provoking elements.  ((UNLESS the element then become "people with power taking that power too far))

 

I would have much preferred something to shake up the gaming world.... like an elf Gandhi (note to anyone so inclined, I'm not interested in discussing Gandhi the figure - if you can't understand my intention by using him, I will illuminate further) who tries to liberate the elves through civil resistance and challenges players to not just cut through every solution in the game world.  Instead - I feel like we've got just another group of baddies to mercilessly maul and some big flashy effects and some big "wow" events.  C'mon Bioware - I'm an adult - I can think about how real people deal with situations. 

 

Anyway - I liked "elves as slaves" just like I like "mages with restrictions" and "casteless dwarves" - doesn't mean I agree with any of them - but I think they make far greater stories.  

 

Where I am feeling "empty" is that I feel DA is leaving the world I fell in love with in DA:O - wiping out the parts that interested me - for what I consider "Saturday Morning WOW."  



#29
Nic Mercy

Nic Mercy
  • Members
  • 181 messages

I married Cullen and ended the Inquisition on my own terms while telling off the ungrateful sods trying to put me under their thumb :P  Then began planning a small group of trustworthy souls and little risk of corruption to deal with Solas. Outside of losing my arm I was not dissatisfied with my ending :)


  • kimgoold et Shizukai aiment ceci

#30
Shizukai

Shizukai
  • Members
  • 112 messages
 

@Shizuaki

Are the comics worth reading?
 
It is not Umberto Eco, but if you can appreciate the value of additional knowledge (I know you can  :) ) and you have the time - read. As it turns out you never know what might be useful - even as an anecdote.   :D

 

I guess I have to take a closer look at them then :)
Thanks for the tip, much appreciated,

 

@Shizukai:  Yes, being brutally honest is both a boon (people know where I stand) and a curse (it's rude) - but it's my nature and I'm glad you didn't feel the need to defend your position because in your playthrough it is your story and my opinion amounts to less than nothing in it.  

 

I didn't feel offended so there was no need to defend myself. It is nice and comforting meeting people here who share my point of view or add some more perspective to it. But it is also important to be confronted with very different opinions. You made some valid points. I see what you are talking about, you are as deep in this universe as I am but it left you with different impressions and thoughts about it. And I'm glad you share them with me/us for I do appreciate a good discussion.

 

It is true that your opinion doesn't affect my playthrough or my story. Nevertheless, you took your time to write it down, I treasure that. I really do.

 

I actually really like the "elves in slavery" concept.  Not because I like slavery, nor because I generally dislike elves (note, I love everything about Shadowrun, it is my favorite IP, so that includes the elves) - from a storytelling standpoint I am actually really annoyed that they aren't exploring it in any real sense.  What average elves might do to liberate themselves from mundane slavery.  Instead - they put super magical elves (Solas and a threat of a world ending cataclysm as the liberator - and I feel it is cheap storytelling.  

 

Fantasy can be an excellent way to explore concepts safely - but it's often infantilized by big flashy effects and events.  I like "Blight as corruption" or "Fade as though/imagination." they're interesting fantasy concepts that kinda discuss things philosophically... but "mind control super saiyans who want to blast the world" becomes too super-hero for me and I think it cheapens any real thought provoking elements.  ((UNLESS the element then become "people with power taking that power too far))

 

I would have much preferred something to shake up the gaming world.... like an elf Gandhi (note to anyone so inclined, I'm not interested in discussing Gandhi the figure - if you can't understand my intention by using him, I will illuminate further) who tries to liberate the elves through civil resistance and challenges players to not just cut through every solution in the game world.  Instead - I feel like we've got just another group of baddies to mercilessly maul and some big flashy effects and some big "wow" events.  C'mon Bioware - I'm an adult - I can think about how real people deal with situations. 

 

Anyway - I liked "elves as slaves" just like I like "mages with restrictions" and "casteless dwarves" - doesn't mean I agree with any of them - but I think they make far greater stories.  

 

I like Solas as a character. I like how he is written and I like the tragedy he's connected to. So I'm fine with his role within this universe, even though he is indeed very powerful. I do not think of "cheap storytelling" here, because he is the one responsible for the situation. It is a natural thing that he wants to take care of it. It is a circle that tries to close itself. Just like my ending, in the Haven dungeon with Cassandra and Leliana next to a new war table, somehow connects the end with the beginning of DAI. I like story concepts like that, even though it is nothing new or special. What I criticize here is the stubbornness, the unability of Solas to think outside the box. That does not fit his sharp mind in my opinion.

 

What I have to admit is, that the passive acceptance of the slaves bugged me throughout the whole series. There is some kind of standing up within the city elven origins in DAO but that is lost from the very start and not going any further. Involving a new concept of character as you suggests would be indeed an interesting thing.

 

Fantasy worlds have been a home to me for so long. There are a lot of things I've seen and felt. I still can enjoy a story like this but I see the weak points you made clear in here. The problem is, that the stories should be understandable and have a likeability for people new in this world, for younger players and for people not THAT much connected to worlds like that. I don’t think that Bioware did the worst job in trying to pleasure their old and loyal players and the new target group.

 

Where I am feeling "empty" is that I feel DA is leaving the world I fell in love with in DA:O - wiping out the parts that interested me - for what I consider "Saturday Morning WOW."  

 

DAO is and will be always my favorite part of the Dragon Age series. I approached it as some “not official Baldurs Gate” follow-up. A comparison you could never put on DA2 or DAI. I love the atmosphere and all the details like the fade/magic-concept, the classic medieval fantasy scenario and the politics/lobbyism. What DAI did was to stir up everything I thought I know about which is another reason it left me baffled (even though I really liked playing it). I have to question a lot of things right now.


  • Karmel aime ceci

#31
9TailsFox

9TailsFox
  • Members
  • 3 713 messages

Dragon age n1 rule,if you want the happy ending don't romance the mage, evar!

They are full of problems...

Morrigan and Dorian is fine more or less.



#32
9TailsFox

9TailsFox
  • Members
  • 3 713 messages

@ComedicSociopathy:

 

You are, of course, completely correct. The OP's point isn't just about Solas and the romance though. Consider what you lose at the end of Trespasser:

 

(1) All independent political and military power

(2) The Anchor

(3) Your arm

(4) Your castle

(5) Your lover

 

Also, you had four opponents in Trespasser - the Viddasala, Solas, Orlais and Ferelden - and you lost against three of them:

 

(1) Ferelden

(2) Orlais

(3) Solas

 

That's a lot of bitter pills to swallow. Personally, I love the Lavellan/Solas scene at the end of Trespasser. I've always understood that some things are more important than love, and it may not hurt less, but at least there was a reason for the breakup I can understand. It's not the end of the world in any way, but things pile up at the end of Trespasser, and the whole pile can make you feel despondent.

 

Having said that, every ending is a beginning, as long as you're not dead. I'd don't really mind having to start from -1 (0 would be with nothing but at least complete), I just hate that I'm not allowed to keep anything I gained in the course of the story, and end up worse than when I started out.

You should play telltale game of throne.

 

This situation is bad it can't get any worse.

Oh.... but I am sure it can't get worse.

Oh...


  • Iakus et ComedicSociopathy aiment ceci

#33
Dai Grepher

Dai Grepher
  • Members
  • 4 656 messages

For an elf, that may be true. For a human noble, unlikely since I doubt any noble scion aspiring to being a warrior would limit fighting skills to just using the greatsword during their training stages. However, a 2H warrior elf can learn other ways of fighting if determined to move on and not sit around moping. Or just give up fighting totally because, only one hand. Does that really suit the char of a Inquisitor?

 

I know a 2H warrior can learn S&S, but my point was that there seems to be no viable way for a 2H Inquisitor to continue being a 2H warrior.



#34
berelinde

berelinde
  • Members
  • 8 282 messages

It probably would have been helpful to remind players of Cassandra's words when the protagonist became the Inquisitor. She said that the Inquisitor wasn't chosen because of the mark or because they're a human/dwarf/elf/qunari/warrior/rogue/mage/Andrastian/Dalish/etc, they were chosen because of how they lead. The Inquisitor didn't lose that along with the arm. The Inquisitor is still a charismatic leader, and now he or she has knowledge he or she didn't have before. The Inquisitor was able to defeat Corypheus because he or she discovered Corypheus's plans, and now he or she knows Solas's.

 

Whether the Inquisition is disbanded or serving the Divine, the Inquisitor still has his or her most important talent intact.


  • frylock23, Medhia_Nox, robertmarilyn et 2 autres aiment ceci

#35
mgagne

mgagne
  • Members
  • 161 messages

...

 

Whether the Inquisition is disbanded or serving the Divine, the Inquisitor still has his or her most important talent intact.

 

 

 

Well said.  That statement illustrate my biggest gripe with the choices we were offered in Trespasser - there was no option to rebel against all the buffoons trying to bring you down.  I understand Bioware's clear encouragement to disband or neuter the Inquisition - it set the stage for the next game.  However in terms of storytelling it left me frustrated.  Realistically, who would dare challenge the Inquisition?  The ruler of Orlais owes you his/her throne - Ferelden is in no shape to engage in a major war - Tevinter is forever embroiled with the Qunari and besides, the Magisterium would most likely encourage trouble in the South rather than unite with the southern powers against you.

 

But beyond the strategic considerations, all the worthies present at the Exalted Council seem completely oblivious to the major social upheavals Thedas has gone through since the last Blight and is still going through.  The world is changing.  The peoples of Thedas saw for themselves the impotence of their traditional leaders and all the corruption festering at the heart of their age old institutions.  The Inquisition stood alone against the tide and strove to restore order, not only by closing rifts and dealing with Corephyus, but more importantly by working to enhance the welfare of the lower classes.  The citizens across nations worship the Inquisitor, especially if you played the religious card as a human.  Does no one among the elite realize that should they push for a confrontation the common people might actually refuse to obey or even rebel?  Why would the soldiers whose life you saved in the Dales accept to raise their weapons against their savior?  Secure in that knowledge an ambitious Inquisitor could seize power if he wanted...  And we didn't get that choice.  I'm well aware it would have been a nightmare to account for such an outcome in the next game but still, it leaves me dissatisfied.

 

As for love...  That was never a major emotional investment on my part in any of my previous PTs.  My current female Lavellan is trying hard to romance Solas but he's such a cold fish, and strangely awkward when it comes to this.  In fact he reminds me of a brilliant geek who's as gauche as you can be when it comes to relationships.  I think she's gonna ditch him and go for Cullen again.  Or maybe I'll restart another PT with some new IQ.

 

Gawds those 3-4 years will be long!


  • Ieldra et loyallyroyal aiment ceci

#36
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 176 messages

It probably would have been helpful to remind players of Cassandra's words when the protagonist became the Inquisitor. She said that the Inquisitor wasn't chosen because of the mark or because they're a human/dwarf/elf/qunari/warrior/rogue/mage/Andrastian/Dalish/etc, they were chosen because of how they lead. The Inquisitor didn't lose that along with the arm. The Inquisitor is still a charismatic leader, and now he or she has knowledge he or she didn't have before. The Inquisitor was able to defeat Corypheus because he or she discovered Corypheus's plans, and now he or she knows Solas's.

 

Whether the Inquisition is disbanded or serving the Divine, the Inquisitor still has his or her most important talent intact.

Forgive me for being cynical, but that's hardly of any help, considering that they couldn't have taken that away without killing the Inquisitor. If that wasn't so, I'm sure they'd have found a way to remove that, too.

 

More to the point, the important thing is what defines our characters in our own eyes, and that's different for everyone. My Trevelyan was heavily invested in the Anchor and what it meant to her, and losing that removed almost everything I had imagined could happen in her future. She also had political aspirations, and didn't like the Chantry, so removing the Inquisition as an independent organization was rather annoying as well. Meanwhile, my Lavellan was good at politics but hated all the diplomatic maneuvering, and she didn't like that the Anchor made her recognizeable everywhere, so Trespasser's ending was much better for her, even though she romanced Solas, but I've written about why that didn't matter. For her, the disbanding and continuing her work in secret was a good option.

 

The thing is, we all extend our characters using the characterization options the game gives us, and more importantly, beyond that with our imagination. Of course we can't expect Bioware to respect that, since that would be impossible, but it's still a lot of bitter pills to swallow if you were invested in that which you have lost.

 

What annoys me most, however, is the "brought back to normal" aspect of Trespasser's ending. I don't want to be normal in my games, I don't see being normal as desirable, and I absolutely hate how everyone who's allowed any permanent magical extras turns into an antagonist.

 

@mgagne:

I agree. My Trevelyan had aspirations of empire, ever since that soldier we meet in the scene with Iron Bull at Skyhold said the Inquisitor would "build the new empire". I even called her crafted staff the "Sceptre of the New Empire" since after the ending of the main game, I thought the future was open to such possibilities. To have those aspirations cut off in such a final way was rather disappointing. The problem, as I see it, is that the main game's ending made some promises, and then Trespasser revoked them.


  • Korva et mgagne aiment ceci

#37
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 258 messages

Forgive me for being cynical, but that's hardly of any help, considering that they couldn't have taken that away without killing the Inquisitor. If that wasn't so, I'm sure they'd have found a way to remove that, too.

 

More to the point, the important thing is what defines our characters in our own eyes, and that's different for everyone. My Trevelyan was heavily invested in the Anchor and what it meant to her, and losing that removed almost everything I had imagined could happen in her future. She also had political aspirations, and didn't like the Chantry, so removing the Inquisition as an independent organization was rather annoying as well. Meanwhile, my Lavellan was good at politics but hated all the diplomatic maneuvering, and she didn't like that the Anchor made her recognizeable everywhere, so Trespasser's ending was much better for her, even though she romanced Solas, but I've written about why that didn't matter. For her, the disbanding and continuing her work in secret was a good option.

 

The thing is, we all extend our characters using the characterization options the game gives us, and more importantly, beyond that with our imagination. Of course we can't expect Bioware to respect that, since that would be impossible, but it's still a lot of bitter pills to swallow if you were invested in that which you have lost.

 

What annoys me most, however, is the "brought back to normal" aspect of Trespasser's ending. I don't want to be normal in my games, I don't see being normal as desirable, and I absolutely hate how everyone who's allowed any permanent magical extras turns into an antagonist.

 

@mgagne:

I agree. My Trevelyan had aspirations of empire, ever since that soldier we meet in the scene with Iron Bull at Skyhold said the Inquisitor would "build the new empire". I even called her crafted staff the "Sceptre of the New Empire" since after the ending of the main game, I thought the future was open to such possibilities. To have those aspirations cut off in such a final way was rather disappointing.

I'd say your Trevelyan still has a pretty good ending.

 

You're a comte, thanks to Varric.  You have the ear of the Viscount of Kirkwall, Leliana's spy network, Josephine's diplomatic contacts, and a Tevinter magister (if you have good rep with Dorian).  The current ruler of Orlais owes you the throne.  Even as a retired Inquisitor, your name carries weight. 

 

And even if you disband the Inquisition rather than cede control of it to the Chantry, it's clearly only "officially" disbanded and still very much exists as an underground movement.

 

The Inquisition may be more  of a secret society, tugging on strings from the shadows, Illuminati-like.  Rather than commanding armies and bringing monarchs to heel.  But it's still very much a force.  One with higher priorities than who's hindquarters sits on the Sunburst Throne.


  • frylock23, HurraFTP et ComedicSociopathy aiment ceci

#38
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 176 messages

I'd say your Trevelyan still has a pretty good ending.

 

You're a comte, thanks to Varric.  You have the ear of the Viscount of Kirkwall, Leliana's spy network, Josephine's diplomatic contacts, and a Tevinter magister (if you have good rep with Dorian).  The current ruler of Orlais owes you the throne.  Even as a retired Inquisitor, your name carries weight. 

 

And even if you disband the Inquisition rather than cede control of it to the Chantry, it's clearly only "officially" disbanded and still very much exists as an underground movement.

 

The Inquisition may be more  of a secret society, tugging on strings from the shadows, Illuminati-like.  Rather than commanding armies and bringing monarchs to heel.  But it's still very much a force.  One with higher priorities than who's hindquarters sits on the Sunburst Throne.

I don't disagree, and I would've been content had not the ending of main game promised something different. The big thing for my Trevelyan was losing the Anchor anyway.



#39
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 258 messages

I don't disagree, and I would've been content had not the ending of main game promised something different. The big thing for my Trevelyan was losing the Anchor anyway.

Oh, I am quite familiar with the concept of games not delivering on promises.  ;)

 

Out of curiosity, what do you believe the main game promised that you were denied?

 

Sadly, I never got around to finishing my "Why yes, I AM the Herald of Andraste, sent by the Maker to save you all with my glowing hand", the one who actually reveled in bearing the Anchor and the power it represented.  So I can't say how losing it for a character who actually liked having it would be.



#40
Ieldra

Ieldra
  • Members
  • 25 176 messages

Oh, I am quite familiar with the concept of games not delivering on promises.  ;)

 

Out of curiosity, what do you believe the main game promised that you were denied?

 

Sadly, I never got around to finishing my "Why yes, I AM the Herald of Andraste, sent by the Maker to save you all with my glowing hand", the one who actually reveled in bearing the Anchor and the power it represented.  So I can't say how losing it for a character who actually liked having it would be.

What it promised: continuance of the Inquisition as a political power. Also, my Trevelyan was non-religious, she just appreciated being able to enter the Fade at will. I envisioned her as a character permanently having that ability.

 

As for endings, well, DAI w/ Trespasser's *is* not nearly as bad as ME3's. In fact, it's all well-orchestrated and it all makes sense, and with my Lavellan I'm very much satisfied with how everything played out. If anything, it's a "good sad ending", very much the opposite of ME3's as far as I'm concerned, but that doesn't change that I hate losing the Anchor with my Trevelyan.



#41
Shizukai

Shizukai
  • Members
  • 112 messages

The thing is, we all extend our characters using the characterization options the game gives us, and more importantly, beyond that with our imagination. Of course we can't expect Bioware to respect that, since that would be impossible, but it's still a lot of bitter pills to swallow if you were invested in that which you have lost.

 

This.

 

It is not that I feel like "I want to be the powerful and mighty rulfer of the Inquisition!" and not like "I want to make my people great again." and pretty sure also not like "I want my soon-to-be-husband Solas to stay and make little egg headed babies with me!" (had to put it here for I already read things like that and felt deeply disgusted). 

 

But I put a lot of feelings in my characters. I take my time to create them, not only in looks. I want to have a clear and strict idea how they think and feel, where they come from and where they want to go. What they love and what they hate, what their biggest fears are... my gaming experience is perfect when I've got an authentic concept of my character. When he or she got an own personality. Of course, I put a piece of my heart in every character I "create" this way, And there aren't many I really get connected to. But when I do, I do it in a very strong way.To see them falling apart, getting broken, suffer.. that touches me, naturally. I don't feel sad about the ending because I didn't get what I wanted. It is a

 

"good sad ending"

 

It is a logical consequence of how my character concept worked and of the decisions, the character made. The outcome fits. Everything else would maybe pleasured me more in the very moment I experienced it, but there wouldn't  an impression that is going to stay with me for a long time. There wouldn't be a need to talk and discuss with, to share with all of you.

 

I feel sad because of what my character had to go through. I feel sad for her.

So, yeah, maybe I put too much feelings into it. But I know the difference between me and my characters.

 

(When one of my pen&paper-characters died after 7 real life years of playing it, I was in tears. And still it was okay for me, for the end could not have been better.).


  • Abyss108, Vlk3 et Nimlowyn aiment ceci

#42
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 258 messages

What it promised: continuance of the Inquisition as a political power

I'd say that happens regardless of what happens.  The only question is, do you attach it to the Chantry, or go underground?  I agree that those being the only options isn't entirely satisfying.  But short of carving out a new kingdom in the Frostbacks, the options were always going to be limited.

 

In the end, the Inquisition has to become more low-key.  To seem to be less of a threat, in order to stalk Solas.  But it's still there, in the shadows, pulling strings.

 

 

 

Also, my Trevelyan was non-religious, she just appreciated being able to enter the Fade at will. I envisioned her as a character permanently having that ability.

 

I suspect someone being able to enter the Fade at will would be too much of a spanner in the setting.  My thought is there's stuff (not just the Blackened City) hidden there which the writers are not ready to bring forth yet.  And leaving the Anchor in play has too much potential to disrupt that.  

 

I mean, if they are going to follow up on Solas in the next game, the Fade will likely be a major component of the story.  Could you hear the complaints of "Why can't the Inquisitor handle this?"



#43
TheJediSaint

TheJediSaint
  • Members
  • 6 637 messages

The Inquisitor should be grateful he only lost one limb, just sayin'.


  • Dai Grepher, ComedicSociopathy et BumminDork aiment ceci

#44
Dai Grepher

Dai Grepher
  • Members
  • 4 656 messages

^True, especially since the unlocking was supposed to kill everyone within the vicinity.



#45
Gervaise

Gervaise
  • Members
  • 4 523 messages

I feel a bit disappointed that they didn't at least address the fall out from suddenly taking the majority of your power away from you.    At the end of the main game you have built the Inquisition up into a force to be reckoned with.    What I liked about that is that I had played my Inquisitor as being politically and religiously neutral for the most part and very much a champion for all those little people out there without a voice.   It was like you were a conscience for all those selfish nobles too wrapped up in keeping and improving their own power rather than working for the good of all.  That was the bit I most regretted losing.    There was no distinction drawn between an Inquisitor like mine and one who had been criticised by companions for being selfish and power hungry.    There was no indication of how the ordinary people felt about this attack on their saviour (if they had acted in that way).     Particularly if you had embraced the role and were a believer, you were meant to be a holy person, revered as the Maker's chosen.    Surely the rulers in attacking you were insulting the Maker?    Yet this was never even touched upon.    All through the main game the issue of faith had been forced on us and then in Trespasser it was suddenly not important at all.

 

Our rebuff to Teagan was not nearly strong enough to my mind.    He had done nothing to help the people of Crestwood, nor had anyone else from the Ferelden nobility.   Bandits occupied the castle, the villagers were beset with undead and there was a dragon flying around the place.     What had anyone from the Ferelden nobility done for the Hinterlands?   Teagan stayed in his castle until the Venatori kicked him out.    After we had resolved the mage/Templar situation, the area continued to be beset by bandits, Red Templars and Venatori, yet I saw no evidence of any of the regular forces dealing with it.  At the end of Hushed Whispers the monarch turns up with their army but then apparently heads straight home again.    Apart from the odd war table mission it was like the nobles of Ferelden had gone on holiday.     So to justify taking our presence away from there, I'd at least have liked some sort of dialogue to have taken place in game to show that the "rightful" rulers were assuming responsibility again.    As things stood, as others have said, you'd think you could have simply stayed put and said "If you don't like it, do something about it."    All the people I helped in Ferelden would have backed me ahead of the absent landlords.

 

A similar situation was really there in Orlais.    They had just been ravaged by civil war.    I'm actually surprised their soldiers were still in such good shape in the Exalted Plains considering they had been beset by undead as well.     Still I don't feel that two years was long enough for the various nobles to restore their forces to pre civil war levels.   Plus they are all constantly plotting against one another.     At the end of the main game it was stated that they did not move against Briala because they feared her relationship to the Inquisitor and respected the Inquisition.  So we were strong enough to withstand the might of the nobility then; why surrender our control so tamely?    I must assume that immediately after the end of Trespasser, the situation would have changed; Briala assassinated or at least removed from power, Gaspard probably ousted as well considering he had been her puppet.     Yet Solas thinks he has set up a situation where we are going to have a few years of relative peace.   Some hope!    

 

 I very much doubt that Ferelden would have been willing to join forces with Orlais (even though we had negotiated a peace treaty).   Short of the Divine calling an Exalted March against the Inquisition, which would have been an interesting twist, it seemed to me to be a very odd situation where we went from having an organisation that everyone feared/respected because they had the equivalent power to a nation state, with well fortified strongholds across the south, to an organisation that was weak enough for us to be bullied into surrendering it.      Even if you don't disband the Inquisition, it is very much reduced in scope to just a token peace keeping force under the auspices of the Divine and thus the Chantry.    Where has the political neutrality gone in that?   

 

My Inquisitor has headed to the Freemarches, where as an elven Inquisitor, with the backing of the Vicount of Kirkwall and political power in Wycombe, plus the co-operation of the Red Jennies, I feel I still do have a significant role in championing the ordinary people.    It is just a pity that Trespasser seemed to be very much a one size fits all ending that takes no account of how the Inquisitor conducted themselves when it came to the reaction of the secular powers and the reason for you abdicating from the role you had played up to then.    When all is said and done, we had just foiled a Qunari plot to take over all of southern Thedas, so it seemed to me that clearly our presence was needed.    Every organisation has its problems with spies; we'd dealt with enough Venatori ones in the course of the game.    I couldn't believe it when Josephine turned on me and started complaining about my tactics.    My actions were no different to how they had been throughout the rest of the game when she thought I was wonderful.    My more dubious decision then (letting Celene die) and in Trespasser had the full backing of Divine Leliana, but apparently now our organisation is corrupt.     This is why I prefer the aggressive disband option because it just about summed up how I felt.

 

Whilst I would not have wanted harm done to my Inquisitor, I must admit that an ending where you were kidnapped from your stronghold and then taken off to be burnt at the stake, would have had a certain sort of irony about it, with the twist being that this time the people rise up in your defence.  


  • Korva, frylock23, Out to Lunch et 7 autres aiment ceci

#46
Tidus

Tidus
  • Members
  • 1 273 messages

Shizukia, I fully agree with your assessment even though I'm struggling through my third play through.  If I may.. It seems my Hero of Ferelden is also alone in the world as well since his lady love Leliana is not at his side --if that romance is followed in DA:O and the warden preforms Morrigan's ritual..

 

I can't fault  the writers since real "heros" fade into the sunset and soon forgotten by the populace and the Government they protected.


  • Shizukai aime ceci

#47
BumminDork

BumminDork
  • Members
  • 23 messages

No lie I was setting myself up the entire time I was playing Trespasser for my inquisitor to die, I just didn't see how they were going to get out of this one with their life. So when it only took her hand I was pretty happy and was like I mean at least there's one happy ending, she has a nub.

 

I like the whole no happy ending thing that Bioware did, it makes it more believable plus which Dragon Age game has a happy ending? Hawke is definitely thrown out of the picture no matter who you romanced in my book, you just get a softer blow if not the mage. And the Hero of Ferelden well they get a bit happier but still not all around happy ending.

 

Our rebuff to Teagan was not nearly strong enough to my mind.    He had done nothing to help the people of Crestwood, nor had anyone else from the Ferelden nobility.   Bandits occupied the castle, the villagers were beset with undead and there was a dragon flying around the place.     What had anyone from the Ferelden nobility done for the Hinterlands?   Teagan stayed in his castle until the Venatori kicked him out.    After we had resolved the mage/Templar situation, the area continued to be beset by bandits, Red Templars and Venatori, yet I saw no evidence of any of the regular forces dealing with it.  At the end of Hushed Whispers the monarch turns up with their army but then apparently heads straight home again.    Apart from the odd war table mission it was like the nobles of Ferelden had gone on holiday.     So to justify taking our presence away from there, I'd at least have liked some sort of dialogue to have taken place in game to show that the "rightful" rulers were assuming responsibility again.    As things stood, as others have said, you'd think you could have simply stayed put and said "If you don't like it, do something about it."    All the people I helped in Ferelden would have backed me ahead of the absent landlords.

 

And this is where I stand and holler how much I agree. Orlais, I could get over as they acted as Orlais would act and just wanted power over you so they could do what they wanted, I could get over that and wave them off. But Ferelden nobility was absent in so many ways and our IQ's could've practically stolen power altogether and I doubt the nobility would've done anything. So now all of a sudden you guys care? After I met Teagan I kinda wanted our IQ to say some choice words to him to shut him up but when that didn't happen I felt kinda empty at most, like come on! 



#48
Dai Grepher

Dai Grepher
  • Members
  • 4 656 messages

Yes, I wish Trespasser had actually given us a real trial where all of our choices were brought up against us, and we would have various options on how to respond. Like Crestwood. We outright seized Caer Bronoch did we? Yes, from bandits who were killing and robbing your people, and so that we could get to the dam and drain Old Crestwood and kill the undead, which were created in part by a Ferelden mayor who drowned innocent people. Sure, we'll turn it back over to you now, but only after you Fereldans prove yourselves capable of protecting your people. We can't just abandon these good people to incompetent officials after all.

 

But I wish there had been more about using the Grey Warden treaties, allying with the Qunari, deciding who rules in certain places in Orlais, any of your dealings with the Chantry, Thom Rainier, how you handled the templars or mages, how you handled the Wardens, etc. But for this the game would have actually needed to have plot flags, which seems to be beyond BioWare's skill level.


  • Melbella et ComedicSociopathy aiment ceci

#49
ComedicSociopathy

ComedicSociopathy
  • Members
  • 1 951 messages

snip

 

post-23187-Dwayne-The-Rock-Johnson-Clapp

 

I have a pretty positive outlook about the end of Trespasser. My significant other didn't turn into a baddie, cleaned up her act, became my wife and unlike every other companion, decided to follow me around Thedas adventuring and figuring out this whole Solas plot. 

 

That said, wow, you really summed up the most annoying narrative fault of Trespasser in that the main reason why your there in the first place, the trial and the judgement of all your major actions in the main game, is quickly sidetracked by Qunari and Solas. Not that I don't mind the Qunari and Solas stuff, but the moral assessment of all the choices your Inquisitor makes would have been interesting to hear. Unfortunately, we have Teagan use the weakest attempt at character assassination I've seen in awhile and that's just about it. Such a shame.

 

Oh, and yeah. Josephine suddenly becoming shrill about hiding the Qunari body is out of the nowhere, since you didn't even have a choice in hiding it in the first place and you've done much worse in the main game without any retorts from her. I just headcanon she was stressed by the entire situation and had to explode at someone. 


  • Melbella aime ceci

#50
ESTAQ99

ESTAQ99
  • Members
  • 225 messages

It probably would have been helpful to remind players of Cassandra's words when the protagonist became the Inquisitor. She said that the Inquisitor wasn't chosen because of the mark or because they're a human/dwarf/elf/qunari/warrior/rogue/mage/Andrastian/Dalish/etc, they were chosen because of how they lead. The Inquisitor didn't lose that along with the arm. The Inquisitor is still a charismatic leader, and now he or she has knowledge he or she didn't have before. The Inquisitor was able to defeat Corypheus because he or she discovered Corypheus's plans, and now he or she knows Solas's.

 

Whether the Inquisition is disbanded or serving the Divine, the Inquisitor still has his or her most important talent intact.

 

The Inquisitor is still a charismatic leader!!!!???? When did he start being charismatic? The inquisitor couldn't have been less charismatic throughout the whole game even if he had tried really hard. One thing is that the writers put those words on Cassandra's mouth and a very different one is that players experienced a charismatic protagonist playing DAI. The protagonist was chosen as an inquisitor and a lot of other nonsense titles just few hours into the game for no other reason than having a glowing marked hand that gave the said protagonist an ability to close broken patches of the fade. At the end of the main game and after a rushed and lackluster battle, inqui easily killed Cory (a mostly absent villain) but didn't defeat the REAL main villain (Solas). At the end of the last DLC, Inqui didn't defeat the main villain either and, as a bad lack bonus, he ended up crippled and either without the organization he used to be the leader of, or with a extremely reductive version of it.....in a basement.


  • Dai Grepher aime ceci