19 réponses à ce sujet

[JadeDragon]

For those who are not aware the Magisters Sidereal are the 7 high priest one for each old god that entered the fade and brought the blight to thedas. In 3 games we have dealt with 2, The Conductor known as Corypheus and The Architect. After hearing the interview where it was stated at one point the Architect was suppose to be in DAI it made me think that maybe the Elder One should not have been Corypheus. Don't get me wrong I liked him as a villain he did fit the bill as the Elder One but I feel like his lack of development and swift downfall actually hurt his stock as a top villain in the series. Personally I think overall two routes would have been better:

 

1.Corypheus and Architect both share the title of Elder One making them The Elder Ones. If Architect was considered then he should have stayed he had about as much info on him as Cory between both Awakening and Legacy and the two was often linked by fans. This would have made the Elder One reveal even bigger finding out at first we think its just Cory then but In Here Lies the Abyss the mission to feature the Architect he pops up instead. That would have thrown Hawke and Varric completely off as well as the Inquisition. It also would have given us a unique dynamic with Cory and Archy because there personalities was so different. Architect seems to be a lot more cunning and more strategic then Cory is who is more upfront and blunt at least compared to The Architect. Especially with the central role both of them played in even reaching the Black City, Cory lead the team but Archy made the plans for the whole thing to be possible. They each could have also took charge of one of the groups, Cory can keep then Ventaori since he was more about rebuilding Tevinter and Archy could have been in charge of the Red Templars seeing that Archy is more of a scientist and likes to experiment with the blight. Archy could've also had his awakened darkspawn and Cory could have continue to manipulate The Freeman while both controlled the Wardens. The possibilities of those two together is much more interesting then Cory stands alone. Of course had we had more insight and more victories for Corpheus it would have been better but we didn't. He felt like a threat once but I am sure with the Architect together that is a huge threat that the two best heroes of the Dragon Age (warden & hawke) could not completely defeat. In fact it would have made the team of The Inquisitor and Hawke even cooler if they fought them together in a double final boss battle(triple if you count the dragon). That way Hawke actually could have dealt with Cory and helped even the odds.

 

2.The other route I would have preferred is just having a brand new Sidereal member altogether as the Elder One. Which is my preferred route. Like I said Cory returning alone did nothing for him but provide a few codex backstories and watch his plans turn to dust and give us the weakest final boss fight of the series. Literally any Darkspawn Magister could have replaced him. It would have been interesting for players that have dealt with the previous two because we would not really know what to expect from the new person. The Sidereal member I would have preferred is The Madman of Chaos, High Priest of Zazikel. In the mission when we travel to the future nothing of what Cory wanted seems to be working out unless Tevinter was the only country that was fine but what we saw was Chaos. Demons lurking everywhere with red lyrium growing out of everything that doesn't sounds like Cory MO. But it fits for The Madman of Chaos who I would imagine if wanted to become a god would love a world that fits that future. Lying to the venatori about rebuilding there nation to glory, turning Templars to monsters, making deals with powerful demons(Nightmare and Ishmael) and giving crazed royalty hope of false godhood. All things that sounds like a madman would do. It also would have gave each hero there own magister to face similar to how each faced a Forbidden One demon. We already witnessed what Cory can do in legacy so of course there was expectations. But we don't know the Madman, who out of all the Sidereal Magisters I could accept him taking the Orb from Solas. Cory doing it at the end of the day made him look stupid but The Madman would just come off as crazy, even returning to the temple of sacred ashes all crazy trying to open the breach at the end would be ok with a villain who is suppose to enjoy crazed chaos but not someone who is not only suppose to be cunning but the leader of these guys. The Madman using Red lyrium something we have seen makes people go insane is something I would picture him smiling at.

 

Of course I don't know the future route they plan to go with The Architect or any of the other 5 members that are left. I just know DAI didn't really do justice for Corypheus really if you look at the other options only reason he seem to have came back was for the Hawke tie in but red lyrium something Hawke should hate more then blood magic is enough of a reason for a Hawke return. Even though what is done is done and past is past I just feel The Madman fits as a better adversary to The Inquisition. The group that was trying to restore Order to a world gone Mad, the battle of Order vs Chaos a true rival to the Inquisitor.

[Ieldra]

Everyone appears to believe that the Architect was one of the Seven. Is that actually confirmed somewhere? I see little reason to believe it otherwise.

[Wulfram]

Everyone appears to believe that the Architect was one of the Seven. Is that actually confirmed somewhere? I see little reason to believe it otherwise.

Check this thread

http://forum.bioware...-silence/page-1

[Ieldra]

Check this thread

http://forum.bioware...-silence/page-1

Hmm. Worth considering, but not exactly compelling if you ask me. Certainly not enough to treat it as factual.

[JadeDragon]

Enough to treat it as factual then fictional. More arrows point to the Architect being a member then they do away. At this point with the evidence that is present to the claim that he is until someone from Bioware clearly states he is not I will go with the facts I have that he is because really that would be the only way he wouldn't be. As things stands its to strong of a claim to state otherwise at least for me.

[Dai Grepher]

I assumed the Architect was a magister when I first saw him. But when he said he was born as he was, I began to doubt it. But it makes sense that he is one of the ancient Magisters.

 

To the OP, I think that if you're going to feature any of the ancient Magisters as the big bad, then the head leader is the one to feature. I disagree with having the Architect there because first off, he's dead in many playthroughs. Second, he would be opposed to Corypheus. So making him a villain again wouldn't work. Having him in as a rival faction that you could choose to ally with or oppose would have been better, and in the event he was dead, then have Seranni leading the Disciples.

 

Personally, I thought even long before information on Corypheus came out, that Corypheus would return possessing a Warden but that he would not be the big bad. I predicted that he would be used by some greater threat. I was actually correct about this. However, I preferred the bigger threat to be the Formless One. I also wanted the other Forbidden Ones involved in the grander plot. I also accurately predicted that the storyline would be to merge the Fade and the real world. This wasn't Corypheus' plan, but it was the plan of the greater threat.

 

But my main theory is that even the Forbidden Ones (or now in the canon case, Solas) would be manipulated by Razikale, since merging the Fade and the real would essentially release the remaining old gods from their subterranean prisons.

 

And if we are to see Razikale, then we should see that old god's high priest, which seems to be depicted as being female. And if this is true, then she would be an ancient Magister who was corrupted by the taint along with the rest of them. In which case she might be the first broodmother. It would be interesting to encounter her in a future title, especially if she can still wield magic.

[vbibbi]

Interesting idea. I wouldn't have minded a return from the Architect. When we were first spoiled that Cory would appear in the game, I thought he would be working for the end boss, and he would only be involved in the Grey Warden plot. I think just any improvement on the antagonists could have helped DAI.

[Gervaise]

It does sound compelling but the Canticle of Silence was written as a piece of political propaganda by Hessarian to discredit and turn public opinion against the last priests of the old gods and their political allies among the Magisters who he regarded as enemies.    Nevertheless, the titles given to the priests must be genuine so the Architect of Beauty does seem more than a coincidence.    What is really ironic is that if the Architect really was the priest of Urthemiel, then he was actually responsible for corrupting his own god.  

 

The problem about the Architect is that we could have killed him in Awakening and he certainly didn't jump into the body of the nearest Grey Warden.   He also had no memory at all of how he came to be.   He was also concerned for the fate of the darkspawn.   That seems odd when you compare him to Corypheus, who while a little confused when first awakened from hibernation, soon recovered all his memory.  He has body hopped several times to alternate Grey Warden bodies.    He seems to have no concern or affinity with darkspawn at all and strangely enough they no longer seem attracted to him as they were to his prison.  

 

So whilst there have been suggestions of other Sidereal running around the Deep Roads, it does seem odd that there hasn't been more sign of them over the last 1200+ years since they were said to have invaded the Black City.      In one story a dwarf claims to have seen 3 sentient dark spawn arguing, one kill another, then ate him, while the other ran away.    If that is true and they were Sidereal, then it might answer why there aren't more of them; one ate all the rest.

 

Actually the idea about one of them being a female and becoming the first broodmother is a good one.    That could be a future plot since it was suggested in the Decent that the best way to end the darkspawn threat would be to find all the broodmothers.    Well if there is an ultra broodmother out there, that would be the way to go.    

 

Then again, I think it is pretty clear now that even if the Sidereal released the taint, they weren't responsible for creating it and that it had its origins in the Deep Roads all along.     The Black City in the Fade may have been linked to the actual location in some way, so when the Magisters opened their rift into the Black City, they were immediately coughed back out to the Deep Roads location.     After all the anchor was considered necessary by both Corypheus and Solas for entering and staying in the Fade; why would they think that if they weren't aware of such, Solas because he created the Veil in the first place and Corypheus because he had the knowledge of what happened to him before and what he gained from the orb.

[vbibbi]

It does sound compelling but the Canticle of Silence was written as a piece of political propaganda by Hessarian to discredit and turn public opinion against the last priests of the old gods and their political allies among the Magisters who he regarded as enemies.    Nevertheless, the titles given to the priests must be genuine so the Architect of Beauty does seem more than a coincidence.    What is really ironic is that if the Architect really was the priest of Urthemiel, then he was actually responsible for corrupting his own god.  

 

The problem about the Architect is that we could have killed him in Awakening and he certainly didn't jump into the body of the nearest Grey Warden.   He also had no memory at all of how he came to be.   He was also concerned for the fate of the darkspawn.   That seems odd when you compare him to Corypheus, who while a little confused when first awakened from hibernation, soon recovered all his memory.  He has body hopped several times to alternate Grey Warden bodies.    He seems to have no concern or affinity with darkspawn at all and strangely enough they no longer seem attracted to him as they were to his prison.  

 

So whilst there have been suggestions of other Sidereal running around the Deep Roads, it does seem odd that there hasn't been more sign of them over the last 1200+ years since they were said to have invaded the Black City.      In one story a dwarf claims to have seen 3 sentient dark spawn arguing, one kill another, then ate him, while the other ran away.    If that is true and they were Sidereal, then it might answer why there aren't more of them; one ate all the rest. 

I think him corrupting his god strengthens the theory of his identity. As the high priest of Urthemiel, he would choose his god of the remaining three untainted Old Gods to try to awaken.

 

A common theory about how he could reappear if killed in DAA is that he could have hopped into Serani's body, since she is tainted and can't be killed in DAA. Also, if he has been killed before and reborn into new bodies, perhaps that has gone on for centuries, and he eventually lost his memory. While Cory was asleep for all of that time and his mind is intact.

 

And as the Descent shows, there are a lot more to the Deep Roads and beyond than what modern Thedas knows about, so the remaining magisters could be biding their time underground.

[In Exile]

Everyone appears to believe that the Architect was one of the Seven. Is that actually confirmed somewhere? I see little reason to believe it otherwise.

DG said something to the effect that he's the same kind of being. It takes a lot of willful denial to consider the Architect as anything other than one of the seven. None of the actual purported story for his existence - as a darkspawn - makes any sense, and it never made sense in DA:A. Then all the Urthemiel themed hints get taken into account, and it becomes hard to deny. 

[JadeDragon]

The memory lost i think may be connected to that magister in the codex that got ate by another darkspawn magister. The 3 magisters probably just woke up and the first thing they saw was each other. well if the Architect was actually the one that got ate his soul would seek out a darkspawn and he would be reborn or as he saw it born the way he was. And even though the Warden can kill the Architect there is still the fact he had two infected beings with him. one in the shadows one as a bodyguard. I take it the elf was a incase i die type situation i will use your body she seemed more then willing then escape. i also think the 7 magisters are drown to the old gods and are the only ones who can taint them. dragons are resistant to the taint so a normal dragon would be hard for darkspawn to taint but those magisters seem ideal to be able to give the blight to the old gods

[Dai Grepher]

An old god is corrupted upon contact with the taint. The Architect's ritual involved Grey Warden blood.

[Pallando]

Everyone appears to believe that the Architect was one of the Seven. Is that actually confirmed somewhere? I see little reason to believe it otherwise.

 

Does Dragon Age: The World of Thedas vol. 2 count as a valid source?

Because that's what's mentioned by the Wiki page of The Architect:

http://dragonage.wik...ref-WoT2-55_0-0

[JadeDragon]

An old god is corrupted upon contact with the taint. The Architect's ritual involved Grey Warden blood.

Which has the taint in it or else it wouldn't turn to a archdemon.

[Dai Grepher]

Correct. But my point was that it wasn't the Architect's blood that corrupted Urthemiel. So I think the old gods are corrupted by anything carrying the taint, not necessarily their respective priest.

[Jester]

Correct. But my point was that it wasn't the Architect's blood that corrupted Urthemiel. So I think the old gods are corrupted by anything carrying the taint, not necessarily their respective priest.

That's definitely true. I doubt Corypheus was the one to corrupt Dumat. 

 

As to Architect, we cannot even be certain he can bodyjump. 

It is not confirmed in any way (nor is it actually plausible) that all Ancient Magisters have the same abilities.

 

Corypheus was able to directly control tainted beings. Architect was unable to directly control Darkspawn, but he was able to "shape" the Taint. 

 

Which makes sense if you think about it.

 

Corypheus mean "Conductor". He was the leader. He commanded. He was the priest of the most powerful of Old Gods. Thus he can control and influence all blighted beings. 

Architect was a builder. As his name suggests, he most likely created the ritual to get into Golden City. Thus he can shape the Taint. Accelerate it, inhibit it or create new things with it (Awakened Darkspawn). 

 

It's possible they both "know the secret of effective immortality", but we can't be certain. 

[ModernAcademic]

The Architect cannot bodyjump. When you choose to fight him, he doesn't attempt to possess your Warden or anyone of your companions who underwent the Joining.

Plus, there are NO official statements saying he's a magister.
And don't quote Gaider's interview as a source. He was asked what kind of villain Corypheus was and he said it was akin to the Architect. Aside from being an incredibly vague statement, there's no implication to the Architect' origins. The comparison he made regarded a completely different aspect.

[JadeDragon]

The Architect cannot bodyjump. When you choose to fight him, he doesn't attempt to possess your Warden or anyone of your companions who underwent the Joining.

Plus, there are NO official statements saying he's a magister.
And don't quote Gaider's interview as a source. He was asked what kind of villain Corypheus was and he said it was akin to the Architect. Aside from being an incredibly vague statement, there's no implication to the Architect' origins. The comparison he made regarded a completely different aspect.

How do you know for a fact it was a different aspect? Like i said there is more facts he is then isn't. Those saying he isn't are just waiting for a dev to say yeah which one pretty much did. and the wardens were not the only tainted beings in the area jumping into the warden goes against his MO

[Anvos]

Honestly we don't have enough information to assume Cory's body switching immortality is something all tainted High Dragon Priests knew and his red lyrium dragon was somehow involved in this process and we don't know when he found/did it.

 

Also while history recounts the High Dragon Priests being part of the entrance to the Golden/Black City it seems rather unbelievable that they were the only ones who went there as 7 people that emerged visably altered would be too easy to contain.  Plus the search for who Cory was on the war table pretty much reveals between the chaos of the first blight and their families' power there was effort put into burying connections to those that entered the Golden/Black City and its a lot easier to cover up Magister Lord "X" than the literal heads of the high dragon priest hoods.

[9TailsFox]

I assumed the Architect was a magister when I first saw him. But when he said he was born as he was, I began to doubt it. But it makes sense that he is one of the ancient Magisters.

 

To the OP, I think that if you're going to feature any of the ancient Magisters as the big bad, then the head leader is the one to feature. I disagree with having the Architect there because first off, he's dead in many playthroughs. Second, he would be opposed to Corypheus. So making him a villain again wouldn't work. Having him in as a rival faction that you could choose to ally with or oppose would have been better, and in the event he was dead, then have Seranni leading the Disciples.

 

Personally, I thought even long before information on Corypheus came out, that Corypheus would return possessing a Warden but that he would not be the big bad. I predicted that he would be used by some greater threat. I was actually correct about this. However, I preferred the bigger threat to be the Formless One. I also wanted the other Forbidden Ones involved in the grander plot. I also accurately predicted that the storyline would be to merge the Fade and the real world. This wasn't Corypheus' plan, but it was the plan of the greater threat.

 

But my main theory is that even the Forbidden Ones (or now in the canon case, Solas) would be manipulated by Razikale, since merging the Fade and the real would essentially release the remaining old gods from their subterranean prisons.

 

And if we are to see Razikale, then we should see that old god's high priest, which seems to be depicted as being female. And if this is true, then she would be an ancient Magister who was corrupted by the taint along with the rest of them. In which case she might be the first broodmother. It would be interesting to encounter her in a future title, especially if she can still wield magic.

Cory is dead in all playthroughs didn't sime problem for him.