37 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

What does happen anyways?

 

You're always the experimenter of the odd choices..

I don't recall since it's been a long time. This is a video of what happens. It doesn't include  Kelder's father. I believe he's happy that his son is ok.

[DeathScepter]

I spared the dirtbag once to see the results.  All the other times, I kill him

 

 

Sound Logic. I like it, Kelder and people like him deserves death.

[congokong]

This isn't the modern world though. This is Thedas. And what is the law for if not to keep murderers like him off the streets? If the law allows him to keep killing, then it's a law that deserves to be broken as far as I'm concerned.

 

Besides, if this was the modern world and I came across a serial killer of minority children from an inner city ghetto and knew that his his rich daddy would just post bail and ensure that his son not only never received consequences for killing, but actively prevented his son from going to an institution that would prevent him from doing this again (an insane assylum or prison), you bet your buttons I'd kill him in the modern era just as I would in Thedas. 

 

Besides, think of it this way: if you don't kill him, he'll just go on to kidnapping and murdering more children. Since you had the chance to stop him but didn't, their blood is on your hands.

 

If I have to be morally responsible for loss of life either way, I'd rather be responsible for one death of one mentally deranged serial killer, not dozens of innocent children.

Don't get me wrong. I definitely think Kelder deserves to die and I would gladly do it if it didn't mean being killed by his daddy in retaliation; assuming my Hawke isn't a glorified highwayman interested in the sovereigns (which they always are). However, the threat of death is something Hawke likely faces by not following the "law," as the guards are also well aware of and emphasize, but because of plot-armor Hawke remains untouched. Using that "Hawke is untouchable" knowledge as validation for killing Kelder is a meta-gaming decision; a perspective I'm not arguing here.

 

And the situation isn't that different in Thedas compared to the modern world though for my argument. If you knew you'd likely be sent to prison, or you or your family harmed by said killer's family for becoming a vigilante, you executing someone like Kelder would be far less probable.

[renfrees]

I don't recall since it's been a long time. This is a video of what happens. It doesn't include  Kelder's father. I believe he's happy that his son is ok.

I wouldn't say he's happy. He threatens you not to tell a soul that Kelder is his son and you have the option to blackmail him in return.

[springacres]

I wouldn't say he's happy. He threatens you not to tell a soul that Kelder is his son and you have the option to blackmail him in return.

So he doesn't seem to give a rat's patootie either way.  He's also an arrogant jacka**.  ("You there, Fereldan.  I wish to speak with you.")  Not someone my Hawkes tend to have a lot of respect for, even if he is a magistrate.

[renfrees]

So he doesn't seem to give a rat's patootie either way.  He's also an arrogant jacka**.  ("You there, Fereldan.  I wish to speak with you.")  Not someone my Hawkes tend to have a lot of respect for, even if he is a magistrate.

He does give... about his position and reputation. Which should be expected from what we know about him.

[RoseLawliet]

 

 

 

I always got in trouble when I hit them.

 

My entire childhood was a series of my sister and my male private school classmates teasing and insulting me until I either cried or hit or chased them, and any violence on my part was met with me getting in trouble and them being excused with "she's younger than you" (in the case of my sister) or "they're boys, they like you" (for my male classmates). Naturally, their verbal teasing and bullying got more and more intense over the years, making it harder and harder for me to ignore, because they realized they could say anything they want with impunity and the more hurtful/insulting/frustrating they were the more likely I was to finally cave and hit them and get in trouble for it. Then I hit puberty and I was sexually harassed by those same boys for being potentially f*ckable.

 

That's part of why I hate players excusing systematic oppression of elves and mages in Thedas. The Andrastian laws and social hierarchies are set up so Templars can abuse mages and humans can abuse elves with impunity, but the minute the underdogs hit back everyone comes down on them, saying "they shouldn't have done it" even though no one did anything to stop the abusers and it's downright amoral to expect the abused to just keep living with their abuse.

 

 

Yeah. 

 

I don't think it's any coincidence that video games tend to appeal slightly more to people whose real world experiences are... less than ideal. If that makes any sense.

 

 

So ordered, systematic kidnapping and killing of children is just fine as long as it's part of the status quo?

 

I see which direction your moral compass points. 

 

Don't laws like this actually encourage chaos and anarchy though, since the people whom the laws allow horrible things to happen to eventually get tired and rebel against them? If the laws didn't allow humans to commit crimes against elves with impunity, maybe the elves wouldn't have turned to the Qun and the Arishok wouldn't have chosen to fight Kirwall rather than give them up. If the laws didn't allow Templars to abuse mages so horribly for so long, then it wouldn't have gives malcontents like Anders reason to feel that blowing up the whole system would be better than "keep living with it" or trying to reform it (since attempts at reforms were brushed aside time and time again).

 

Both the Arishok's launch against Kirkwall and the Mage/Templar war could have been avoided if the laws had focused on preventing horrible things from happening to innocent people and less on keeping the innocent people under the thumbs of their abusers.

 

 

Sorry, maybe I should have said "it certainly seems that", because obviously laws don't prevent anything. The justice system of the US, at least, is limited to being reactionary (maybe that's the wrong word, but I hope you can tell what I mean) by nature, so all you can do is punish something after it's been done. "Precrime" is something that doesn't exist, and I definitely wouldn't support it even if it were.

 

As for laws allowing horrible things as long as the people up top aren't inconvenienced, yes, it really does seem that way to me. However, I'm only stating an observation of mine. It's NOT any kind of judgment or condoning or anything else.

 

Would it confuse you to know I fully support what Anders did?

Modifié par RoseLawliet, 30 novembre 2015 - 07:18 .

[straykat]

 

Would it confuse you to know I fully support what Anders did?

 

Very much so. I don't know what most of those people in the Chantry have to do with anything he believes in. It's not punishing any crime in that case. It's just random slaughter. And if their crime is simply being inside a chantry building, then it's just stupidity. I wouldn't even give it the credit of calling it "unjust". Let alone "just". It's just... nothing but stupidity.

 

Hate to bring this up, but pretty much just like what happened in France. It's just stupid. The world is not impressed..nor terrorized.. by stupid bullshit like this.

[congokong]

Very much so. I don't know what most of those people in the Chantry have to do with anything he believes in. It's not punishing any crime in that case. It's just random slaughter. And if their crime is simply being inside a chantry building, then it's just stupidity. I wouldn't even give it the credit of calling it "unjust". Let alone "just". It's just... nothing but stupidity.

 

Hate to bring this up, but pretty much just like what happened in France. It's just stupid. The world is not impressed..nor terrorized.. by stupid bullshit like this.

Yeah, if you're like Anders and you see something very gray like mage oppression as black/white unjust, and choose an ends-justify-the-means approach in response, you can't make a real argument against the terrorists behind 9/11, or the Paris attacks, or abortion clinic attacks, or "the list goes on"... If you do you're just a hypocrite.

[sylvanaerie]

Well, I don't agree with Anders actions, but the way i interpreted it was he was attacking the idea of the chantry, not the people themselves.  I don't even think he sought to assassinate the Grand Cleric personally, but more objected to what she represented and didn't do to help the very people who needed her most.  Even as late as his act 3 quest he begs you to make one final appeal to her when you're supposed to be distracting her.

 

As for Kelder, I kill him.  He is honest with you that he won't stop murdering elven children. He's whackadoo in the first place, but has escape artist skills that would make Houdini blush with envy and his dad is a high placed government official, high enough to ensure he won't see more than a few hours of a jail cell.  In Thedas the price of murdering is most likely death anyway.  Kelder wants to die, to be at peace from the 'voices', but is too afraid to do it himself.  There isn't any treatment available in Kirkwall for whatever he has (I'm assuming schizophrenia or some similar mental illness).

 

Too many arguments for dispensing a little frontier justice.  My more pacifistic Hawke's allow Fenris to do it.  I've only had one Hawke that took real pleasure from killing him, but that was a pretty aggressive, scary warrior to begin with.  He even opted with the trollish response to the elven father's question of "Is he dead" with the "We could always raise him up from the dead and kill him again?".

 

If you spare Kelder, which I did only once, you hear later that his father is unable to curb his violent tendencies and he kills again.  I weigh his death against all the other potential deaths he will cause and determine it's better to take him out of the picture.

[straykat]

Well, I don't agree with Anders actions, but the way i interpreted it was he was attacking the idea of the chantry, not the people themselves.  I don't even think he sought to assassinate the Grand Cleric personally, but more objected to what she represented and didn't do to help the very people who needed her most.  Even as late as his act 3 quest he begs you to make one final appeal to her when you're supposed to be distracting her.

 

As for Kelder, I kill him.  He is honest with you that he won't stop murdering elven children. He's whackadoo in the first place, but has escape artist skills that would make Houdini blush with envy and his dad is a high placed government official, high enough to ensure he won't see more than a few hours of a jail cell.  In Thedas the price of murdering is most likely death anyway.  Kelder wants to die, to be at peace from the 'voices', but is too afraid to do it himself.  There isn't any treatment available in Kirkwall for whatever he has (I'm assuming schizophrenia or some similar mental illness).

 

Too many arguments for dispensing a little frontier justice.  My more pacifistic Hawke's allow Fenris to do it.  I've only had one Hawke that took real pleasure from killing him, but that was a pretty aggressive, scary warrior to begin with.  He even opted with the trollish response to the elven father's question of "Is he dead" with the "We could always raise him up from the dead and kill him again?".

 

If you spare Kelder, which I did only once, you hear later that his father is unable to curb his violent tendencies and he kills again.  I weigh his death against all the other potential deaths he will cause and determine it's better to take him out of the picture.

 

Sometimes I don't have Fenris at that point. He's often my last recruit.

[vertigomez]

He murders elven children because they're "too beautiful", knows he'll never stop, and his father has enough influence to spring him from jail even on the off-chance that he's meaningfully punished. And as far as we know, there's no concept of mental rehabilitation centers in Thedas... this guy gets the shiv because he tells you he can't stop.

[Catilina]

He wants to die. Dangerous and totally mad. They do not sentence him if you take him back. Just kill him or ask Fenris to  to execute him.