125 réponses à ce sujet

[akbogert]

Bioware already done that in the past with Revan, Bioware doing it again with The Inquisitor

 

It's nothing new, re-use the old cliche.

 

Bioware could come out with something fresh, becoming like Bethesda is something we don't expect.

 

Okay, but don't move the goalposts.

Your post specifically claimed that Bethesda's story was better than Bioware's story, so it makes no sense to then criticize Bioware for becoming like Bethesda.

And while your claim was about the story, and you mentioned background, your actual post described opening information about protagonists. 

[Qis]

What i mean is Bethesda is going forward in their game, Fallout 4 is their succesful experiment, they prove that they can make games like Bioware if they want to, but Bioware can never good at making open world game like them. See that? it is Bethesda poking at Bioware.

 

Before DA:I release, everybody is noisy about Bioware want to make Dragon Age : Skyrim, but DA:I is a fail. In other way, Bethesda comeout with Mass Effect like Fallout it is a success. People always complain Bethesda game lack story or their story are **** not like Bioware, but now they show they can make games like Bioware

 

It's a paradox...

[akbogert]

What i mean is Bethesda is going forward in their game, Fallout 4 is their succesful experiment, they prove that they can make games like Bioware if they want to, but Bioware can never good at making open world game like them. See that? it is Bethesda poking at Bioware.

 

Before DA:I release, everybody is noisy about Bioware want to make Dragon Age : Skyrim, but DA:I is a fail. In other way, Bethesda comeout with Mass Effect like Fallout it is a success. People always complain Bethesda game lack story or their story are **** not like Bioware, but now they show they can make games like Bioware

 

It's a paradox...

 

I guess I can't speak much to how Bioware is at open world since I've not played their earlier games. But I found DAI fine enough as an open-world game that still wants its focus to be on the characters. I doubt sincerely that Fallout 4 is much like Dragon Age or Mass Effect. So saying Bethesda has proven they can make Bioware games seems off.

 

But yeah. I haven't played a prior DA game or ME or FO4 so I really am not able to agree or disagree with your claims about the changes Bioware have made over time or the ways in which Bethesda's new game feels like ME.  

[correctamundo]

Before DA:I release, everybody is noisy about Bioware want to make Dragon Age : Skyrim, but DA:I is a fail.

 

Wrong on both accounts.

 

[LightningPoodle]

Bioware are in their element when they are in a hallway. A hallway with several doors on either side. They make better stories when their games have a more linear structure to them, and not just in terms of story but the explorable world as well. What they did with DA:I is remove themselves from that hallway and planted themselves in an open field. They lost the linear structure that made their games great in an attempt to hit a growing market.

Like most businesses, BioWare failed to see that the more streamlined RPG was what separated Dragon Age from Skyrim and other huge open world games. They had an aspect that was unique to them, and in changing up their game model, they've lost that.

Bethesda on the other hand, stuck with their model, and it works. It's what you expect from a Bethesda game. Sure, they added heaps of new stuff, like a voiced protagonist, but the core element to their games remain the same as it's always been.

In an industry that is constantly competing for attention, that is how you keep it. You keep what works. You make it a definitive aspect in your games, and that is what gets people to remember your game. Changing it up so drastically doesn't do anyone any favours.

[correctamundo]

Well they did me a favour and apparently EA as well as Bioware itself. If you want to stagnate, you keep what works, if you want to evolve, you change.

[Qis]

Bioware don't evolve...but mutate...not all mutation are beneficial...Bethesda does evolve, like LightingPoodle said, the core of Bethesda games never change, but they evolve

 

Fallout 4 is like Oblivion and Skyrim (and Morrowind) at it's core, if anyone used to these games will see it, but they evolve into something else and it work. The difference between Fallout series and the other is the V.A.T.S system.

 

That's what i called identity, Bethesda don't loose their identity. Bioware loose identity....and so many loyal fans.....

 

Let see how TES:6 will come out...

[correctamundo]

Bioware don't evolve...but mutate...not all mutation are beneficial...Bethesda does evolve, like LightingPoodle said, the core of Bethesda games never change, but they evolve

 

Fallout 4 is like Oblivion and Skyrim (and Morrowind) at it's core, if anyone used to these games will see it, but they evolve into something else and it work. The difference between Fallout series and the other is the V.A.T.S system.

 

That's what i called identity, Bethesda don't loose their identity. Bioware loose identity....and so many loyal fans.....

 

Let see how TES:6 will come out...

 

Obviously you missed the Bethesda forums when Skyrim hit and all the "loyal Bethesda fans" were whining their pants off on how Skyrim was not like Morrowind (the true TES game). They're still there, some of them. Supposedly Skyrim was also a big failure.

 

And No, I doubt that TES6 will be anything like Arena.

[Donk]

Bioware don't evolve...but mutate...not all mutation are beneficial...Bethesda does evolve, like LightingPoodle said, the core of Bethesda games never change, but they evolve

 

Fallout 4 is like Oblivion and Skyrim (and Morrowind) at it's core, if anyone used to these games will see it, but they evolve into something else and it work. The difference between Fallout series and the other is the V.A.T.S system.

 

That's what i called identity, Bethesda don't loose their identity. Bioware loose identity....and so many loyal fans.....

 

Let see how TES:6 will come out...

 

Around the time of Fallout 4's release I lurked on the Bethesda forums; specifically, the F04 section.

 

Now, the BSN is the only place I've ever stuck around. I've been here pretty much since DA:I's release. Regardless of several criticisms I have of the game, I can comfortably confirm that it's the same deal over on those forums.

 

"Next time, let Obsidian make the next Fallout."

 

"This game sucks. There are no stats. It's not a real RPG."

 

"Voiced protagonist is taking a step backwards."

 

The most hilarious, which really mirrors this forum: "Romance options suck for STRAIGHT men."

 

The moral of the story here is:

 

Everyone has their own opinions. There are a surprising shittonne of people over on the Bethesda forums that are extremely unhappy with the changes, and believe that Bethesda are a devolving cashgrab dev, dumbing down their games to appeal to a wider audience. Specifically, the "casual console FPS gamer". Sound familiar?

 

As for the game itself, from what little I have played due to bugs and being away from home for a bit. It's quite a fun game. It's nothing like DA:I, however, so I don't really get why it's being compared; but at the same time, I know this is the BSN and I know the OPer likes to make comparisons to every single game under the sun. I'm surprised there isn't one for Battlefront, yet.

[Qis]

But Bethesda never give a **** toward whining fans, they keep to their identity, and they don't care to please all people, they make games like what they want without sacrifice their own identity for the sake to favor the whining fans...not like Bioware who always listen to the group they favor, like the SJWs......

 

Skyrim is a failure? I doubt that, Skyrim still hold TES identity, only little changes, the game still feel like TES. Changes between Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim is not like between DA:O, DA2 and DA:I...Bethesda never make drastic changes, Bioware does.

 

Bioware make drastic changes in combat for example, from dice roll combat into awesome button mashing anime style, from DA:O to DA2 is a mutation, DA2 to DA:I is another mutation.. All Bethesda games have the same combat system, the changes are only in minor things. Fallout 4 and Fallout 3 (and New vegas) don't change much, still the same, changes are only in minor things. They evolved.

 

Bethesda know fans love them for who they are and who they were, they will never lost loyal fans, yes they upset some but they never lost them. They know that. No matter how much Todd Howard lied, he still look cute...

[correctamundo]

not like Bioware who always listen to the group they favor, like the SJWs......

 

Oooh, so it's the Agenda.

 

[Donk]

But Bethesda never give a **** toward whining fans, they keep to their identity, and they don't care to please all people, they make games like what they want without sacrifice their own identity for the sake to favor the whining fans...not like Bioware who always listen to the group they favor, like the SJWs......

 

Skyrim is a failure? I doubt that, Skyrim still hold TES identity, only little changes, the game still feel like TES. Changes between Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim is not like between DA:O, DA2 and DA:I...Bethesda never make drastic changes, Bioware does.

 

Bioware make drastic changes in combat for example, from dice roll combat into awesome button mashing anime style, from DA:O to DA2 is a mutation, DA2 to DA:I is another mutation.. All Bethesda games have the same combat system, the changes are only in minor things. Fallout 4 and Fallout 3 (and New vegas) don't change much, still the same, changes are only in minor things. They evolved.

 

Bethesda know fans love them for who they are and who they were, they will never lost loyal fans, yes they upset some but they never lost them. They know that. No matter how much Todd Howard lied, he still look cute...

 

1. That's debatable. BW make games to appease to "SJWs"? This is based on what, exactly? No "evil roleplaying options"?

That's funny. I see the same complaints about F04. All factions are "morally grey" and there are no evil factions to side with.

Also, Elder Scrolls Online: what happened to the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild? While they plan to implement the two factions in an update (if they haven't already, I'm unsure as I haven't played in a while) they weren't there to begin with. Was that to appeal to this notorious "SJW" group?

 

Or is it based on the fact that they allow same sex romances? Oh.. that means Bethesda are appealing to the SJWs too. They allowed the option of same sex romance.

 

2. Skyrim isn't a failure. This is true. It sold many copies, and people still play it to this day. DAI also sold well, as did ME3 (the latter being bashed the most, aside from DA2). Most of Skyrim's appeal however can be thanked to the modding community.

 

As for that last part.. BioWare has always changed their gameplay style from game to game. All games are different. ME1 is vastly different to ME2. ME2 and ME3 are pretty close together in terms of combat, but still different. At least this ensures something new and fresh with each game, and not the same old thing over and over, as people tend to get bored with that. So depending on one's viewpoint, it's either a good or bad thing.

[Giantdeathrobot]

What i mean is Bethesda is going forward in their game, Fallout 4 is their succesful experiment, they prove that they can make games like Bioware if they want to, but Bioware can never good at making open world game like them. See that? it is Bethesda poking at Bioware.

 

Before DA:I release, everybody is noisy about Bioware want to make Dragon Age : Skyrim, but DA:I is a fail. In other way, Bethesda comeout with Mass Effect like Fallout it is a success. People always complain Bethesda game lack story or their story are **** not like Bioware, but now they show they can make games like Bioware

 

It's a paradox...

 

Proved that they can do a Bioware game better?

 

Bethesda would have to be able to write characters I can give two shits about first. Then design worlds that make a lick of sense rather than have ten raiders, eleven Feral Ghouls and twelve Super Mutants for every peaceful NPC, to say nothing of stupid stuff like Cabot House and the aliens. Then infuse enough emotion in the story to even try to make the player care, rather than have the protagonist keep a poker face even after facing hugely traumatic events no matter what.

And then they might have to create a proper interface for party members rather than this hilariously clunky method that is worse than what New Vegas had.

And why not have the endings reflect the choices you made while we're at it?

 

Fallout 4 isn't a terrible game by any means, but it most definitely isn't thanks to its story and Bioware-esque elements. Cripes, even the dialog system takes the worst of ME1's (prior to Bioware refining it in Inquisition) and manages to make it even more obtuse. It's like if you played DA2 with only the tonal icons on and never have any idea what in the blazes your character will actually say.

[akbogert]

While I can't weigh in on the actual changes, I can say this, after having spent a while on these forums.

 

DAI made some pretty big changes from DA2. But DA2 evidently made some pretty big changes from DAO. For every person (like Qis) who thinks that the changes in Inquisition are proof that Bioware has lost its identity (and lost its fans), there's another person who felt the same thing when 2 came out and it wasn't like Origins. And I'd guess there is a sizable group of people who disliked DA2 but came back around to liking DAI. 

 

Meanwhile, even if you have a person who walked away after DAI "forever" you'll have a person like me for whom DAI was the first game, who loved it, and who will happily take your place buying DA4. Bioware hasn't "lost" anything that will matter to them in the long run. (And you could argue that Bioware should care about pushing away older fans regardless of how many new ones they pick up, but not while also criticizing Bioware for catering to its fans as if that were a weakness).

[Qis]

1. That's debatable. BW make games to appease to "SJWs"? This is based on what, exactly? No "evil roleplaying options"?

That's funny. I see the same complaints about F04. All factions are "morally grey" and there are no evil factions to side with.

Also, Elder Scrolls Online: what happened to the Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild? While they plan to implement the two factions in an update (if they haven't already, I'm unsure as I haven't played in a while) they weren't there to begin with. Was that to appeal to this notorious "SJW" group?

 

Or is it based on the fact that they allow same sex romances? Oh.. that means Bethesda are appealing to the SJWs too. They allowed the option of same sex romance.

 

2. Skyrim isn't a failure. This is true. It sold many copies, and people still play it to this day. DAI also sold well, as did ME3 (the latter being bashed the most, aside from DA2). Most of Skyrim's appeal however can be thanked to the modding community.

 

As for that last part.. BioWare has always changed their gameplay style from game to game. All games are different. ME1 is vastly different to ME2. ME2 and ME3 are pretty close together in terms of combat, but still different. At least this ensures something new and fresh with each game, and not the same old thing over and over, as people tend to get bored with that. So depending on one's viewpoint, it's either a good or bad thing.

 

1. Yes they include homosexuality and stuff but it never being the main focus in their games, they don't give a **** about it, they leave it all to the modders....romances? Yes you can get married in Skyrim, but just that, there's no sex scene whatsoever. They never bother about those stuff, and they give their middle fingers to SJW whiners in Fallout 4 (the main character is married and have a BIOLOGICAL son, by means he/she have f***ed biologically to have that biological son).

 

2. Modders community prove that Skyrim is a blast, they are busy making improvement to that game, means they are LOYAL fans, they waste their time and energy making those mods and fans download mods like crazy...that's a dedication and zealous.

 

Changing combat style and mechanic to the whole is the main reason why Bioware lost their2523o%r20fans...players who love DA:O combat don't like DA2, player who like DA2 don't like DA:O and DA:I, player who love DA:I don't like DA:O and DA2, generally, so by means when Bioware release a game with new type of combat, they lost their previous fans who loathed the new combat.

 

Bethesda combat is the same, changes are made in minor things, so the ones who used to play previous games are quickly grasp it, maybe some don't like the minor changes but still playing them is not a mega annoyance. So the previous fans basically have no qualms much about combat system, because they are all basically the same.

[Shaftell]

I really feel like the next DA game is going to be the best one. As much as I hate making excuses, open worlds are Bethesdas thing. I feel like in DAI it heavily relied on inspiration rather than creating for itself. Also, old gen/ current gen created major limitations...Also utilizing FB4 engine for the very first time. I feel fair comparisons to Witcher 3 and Fallout can adequately be made in the next installment of DA.

[AlanC9]

DAI made some pretty big changes from DA2. But DA2 evidently made some pretty big changes from DAO. For every person (like Qis) who thinks that the changes in Inquisition are proof that Bioware has lost its identity (and lost its fans), there's another person who felt the same thing when 2 came out and it wasn't like Origins. And I'd guess there is a sizable group of people who disliked DA2 but came back around to liking DAI.

Right. And longer than that. Really, this has been going on since BG2 threw out BG1's open-world approach in favor of quests taking you to particular maps. DA:I is a throwback to BG1 in this regard.

Complaints that Bio's losing its identity have been made on this board or its predecessors since at least NWN. I know that personally since that's when I joined up. And they're all nonsense. Experimenting with the RPG form is Bioware's identity.

[AlanC9]

Changing combat style and mechanic to the whole is the main reason why Bioware lost their2523o%r20fans...players who love DA:O combat don't like DA2, player who like DA2 don't like DA:O and DA:I, player who love DA:I don't like DA:O and DA2, generally, so by means when Bioware release a game with new type of combat, they lost their previous fans who loathed the new combat.
 

So they lose the handful of fans who can't or won't try a new combat system? How many of those are there? You're still here, for instance. And I'll be stunned if you're not here for DA4.

[Andraste_Reborn]

1. Yes they include homosexuality and stuff but it never being the main focus in their games

 

Since when has homosexuality been a 'main focus' of any BioWare game? There's maybe two hours of same-sex romance content in DAI, a game that can easily last a hundred hours.

[o Ventus]

 

It's nothing new, re-use the old cliche.

 

Yeah, because when something happens once and is repeated ONCE, it's a cliche.

 

Sure.

[o Ventus]

So they lose the handful of fans who can't or won't try a new combat system? How many of those are there? You're still here, for instance. And I'll be stunned if you're not here for DA4.

 

I'm glad they changed the combat system. I probably wouldn't have stayed if it remained like DAO's combat. It's slow and boring, coupled with Origins having generally poor animations for anything that isn't a spellcast.

[Donk]

1. Yes they include homosexuality and stuff but it never being the main focus in their games, they don't give a **** about it, they leave it all to the modders....romances? Yes you can get married in Skyrim, but just that, there's no sex scene whatsoever. They never bother about those stuff, and they give their middle fingers to SJW whiners in Fallout 4 (the main character is married and have a BIOLOGICAL son, by means he/she have f***ed biologically to have that biological son).

2. Modders community prove that Skyrim is a blast, they are busy making improvement to that game, means they are LOYAL fans, they waste their time and energy making those mods and fans download mods like crazy...that's a dedication and zealous.

Changing combat style and mechanic to the whole is the main reason why Bioware lost their2523o%r20fans...players who love DA:O combat don't like DA2, player who like DA2 don't like DA:O and DA:I, player who love DA:I don't like DA:O and DA2, generally, so by means when Bioware release a game with new type of combat, they lost their previous fans who loathed the new combat.

Bethesda combat is the same, changes are made in minor things, so the ones who used to play previous games are quickly grasp it, maybe some don't like the minor changes but still playing them is not a mega annoyance. So the previous fans basically have no qualms much about combat system, because they are all basically the same.

Lmao!

Romance isn't a main focus in BW games either bud. The scenes are always very short in comparison to the rest of the game. Particularly gay romances, as there is always less content for that. Hell, gay male fans of Mass Effect had to wait until the third instalment before they got some. I dunno where you're getting that idea from, but I think that's based on your perception or your focus and not on actual truth. Especially where Inquisition is concerned; you have to hit the heart icons on the dialogue in order to get anywhere. If you don't, then no romance.

As for Fallout 4, if they didn't give a **** as you say then they wouldn't have included them. Yet they did.

And what has having a biological son and being married got to do with it? People can easily headcanon that they were in the closet (if playing a gay character) or being bisexual. No big deal.

I've never had an issue with BW changing combat and gameplay style. Me and many other BW fans. While some do complain that it isn't as it used to be; (CRPG fans) a lot of us are less fussy and don't care.

People on the Bethesda forums complain about the exact same thing; but in that case it's actually more baffling because Bethesda have made 3D roleplaying and exploration style games for years yet some are complaining that they aren't CRPG enough, no stats etc.

I have nothing against Fallout 4 and I play Bethesda games just as I play BW games. Both companies provide different things, but what you don't realize is that just because you're anti BW doesn't mean the sun shines out of every other developer's arse. Fans are either disappointed or happy with both. Again. It's about *opinions*. If you disagree with the direction BW are going in then stop playing their games and go play something you actually like rather than hanging around their forums bitching and comparing it to every other game.

[Darkly Tranquil]

So they lose the handful of fans who can't or won't try a new combat system? How many of those are there? You're still here, for instance. And I'll be stunned if you're not here for DA4.

I'm still still here at the moment, but I utterly despise the new combat system, so I may or may not buy the next game based on how the combat looks. DAI turned me from a diehard fan into something of a skeptic.

[Qis]

If you disagree with the direction BW are going in then stop playing their games and go play something you actually like rather than hanging around their forums bitching and comparing it to every other game.

 

Yes you are correct, Bioware is just a game company anyway, they made game products, don't like it don't buy it, easy isn't it?

[Donk]

I'm still still here at the moment, but I utterly despise the new combat system, so I may or may not buy the next game based on how the combat looks. DAI turned me from a diehard fan into something of a skeptic.

 

I hate the combat of DA:I too. I also hated Origins combat. DA2 is my favourite. Each game has its own strengths and weaknesses though.

 

 

Yes you are correct, Bioware is just a game company anyway, they made game products, don't like it don't buy it, easy isn't it?

 

Apparently not.

 

The "in" thing to do these days is to buy a game and expect it to be one hundred percent perfect based on what you feel, and then when it doesn't match up, you go on the forums and complain about it for decades. Additionally, you can create conspiracy theories about "agendas" thus turning every argument into social issues and politics.

 

Well.. that's on the BSN, anyway.