330 réponses à ce sujet

[Serion amakiir]

man what a kliche, cant u have a life and stil be a good gamer? i know i do.



i am just as upset as every1 els about the delays with RTO etc every day i will log on just to see if bio has uploaded so i can downloade it but still u dont see me coming in here and mass spam about how bad bio is screwing us over, why? simpel it Whont help, you can scream, threaten bio all you whant it stil dosent make them faster.

[Dahelia]

Serion amakiir wrote...

man what a kliche, cant u have a life and stil be a good gamer? i know i do.

i am just as upset as every1 els about the delays with RTO etc every day i will log on just to see if bio has uploaded so i can downloade it but still u dont see me coming in here and mass spam about how bad bio is screwing us over, why? simpel it Whont help, you can scream, threaten bio all you whant it stil dosent make them faster.

Could also call them...
Phone: 780-430-0164

[Parker Kincaid]

I'm one of the many people disappointed at the delay for RtO. In general, I'm disappointed at any and all delays in the releasing of game fixing updates as well as DLC or other content. Nonehtless, I have waited patiently and am still doing so. In the end, as I have said time and time again, the biggest problem is when the developer does not communicate with the community.

No one should blame the non-employed/volunteer/etc moderators in these forums nor the community leaders who are employees. The information provided by the community leaders both comes from the game developers and it has to be information that has not been "gagged" by someone higher up. In many cases I suspect the community leaders are as much in the dark as we, the consumers, are which makes their life unpleasant when having to deal with million of threads concerning the delays and people going far far beyond acceptable community behavior.

Victor Wachter has given us all information concerning the delay, 360 update, and the RtO release for the 360 and PC. Kudos to him for doing this and kudos to those above him that finally let these announcements be made. Someone finally saw the wisdom of not keeping everyone in the dark. I still believe he ME2 release date played a role in this information being posted only after the ME2 release but that's a whole different story which I expect was an EA decision rather than a BioWare one and doesn't change my appreciation for Victor's postings.

As a forum member and reader I find myself laughing, sighing, rolling my eyes, and annoyed when reading posts. Sure, people are absolutely 100% entitled to feel wrongly treated when they have been. Being upset does not, however, give such users carte blanche to ignore forum rules. On the other side of things the people who automatically attack the people who are upset are just as bad. Calling someone childish, immature, a baby, etc, is far from a mature response. Some of the responses by people telling the upset people to be patient are, in fact, worse than the posts by the angry and upset game owners. Belittling those having problems who want an update to fix their problems is downright wrong. Some people have said that the "whiners" should grow up. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Lastly, no, I'm not perfect. I won't claim that I am. I've made posts in the forums but I've intentionally tried to keep it to a minimum and stay out of the endless "wars". When I have pointed out my disappointment I have time and time again noted that BioWare needed to communicate [more] with the community. BioWare has now taken a big step in that direction with the information that Victor Wachter has provided to us. I'm content with that for the time being and I hope the open lines of communication continue to exist in the future. It's really unfortunate to see how quickly and badly things can devolve due to silence when actual communication is needed. One of the worst feelings is that you've spent money on something and are then promptly ignored when you run into problems. I think we can all understand that feeling and have all experienced it at one point or another in life.

At the end of the day I love Dragon Age: Origins and I bought the game not knowing whether I would enjoy it or not. I truly hope that going forward things will only get better.

Modifié par Parker Kincaid, 30 janvier 2010 - 01:19 .

[Glorfindel7]

So the XBox version is out tomorrow AM - what does that mean for the rest of us?

[awsome_robot]

Glorfindel7 wrote...

So the XBox version is out tomorrow AM - what does that mean for the rest of us?

we wait, as usual. as a ps3 owner i don't believe their sony cert stories of not having a clue for a release date. i've followed several developers blogs and forums and yes, sony cert does take longer, but not to the extent of not having the slightest idea on how long before they can tell us whats the status of a patch/dlc. it still puzzles me why the pc version isn't available yet, it should've been the first one out with patch/dlc. plain and simple, the 360 is their priority, pc/ps3 aren't a priority, this level of commitment is obvious.

[EagleDelta3]

awsome_robot wrote...

Glorfindel7 wrote...

So the XBox version is out tomorrow AM - what does that mean for the rest of us?

we wait, as usual. as a ps3 owner i don't believe their sony cert stories of not having a clue for a release date. i've followed several developers blogs and forums and yes, sony cert does take longer, but not to the extent of not having the slightest idea on how long before they can tell us whats the status of a patch/dlc. it still puzzles me why the pc version isn't available yet, it should've been the first one out with patch/dlc. plain and simple, the 360 is their priority, pc/ps3 aren't a priority, this level of commitment is obvious.

Haha, something really funny about that cert process is that PS3 got a MW2 Patch today, but the 360 version is waiting on microsoft's cert process.  Which is really longer?  or is it just an excuse?

[Fexelea]

Sony's certification process is longer, however it is more reliable. They give you a schedule and the schedule sticks, unlike M$, who have a tendency to be too early or too late.

I want to hear what's the deal with Awakenings and PS3 release date?

[Hyper Cutter]

So when's the next chapter of Journeys coming out, anyway?

[awsome_robot]

EagleDelta3 wrote...

awsome_robot wrote...

Glorfindel7 wrote...

So the XBox version is out tomorrow AM - what does that mean for the rest of us?

we wait, as usual. as a ps3 owner i don't believe their sony cert stories of not having a clue for a release date. i've followed several developers blogs and forums and yes, sony cert does take longer, but not to the extent of not having the slightest idea on how long before they can tell us whats the status of a patch/dlc. it still puzzles me why the pc version isn't available yet, it should've been the first one out with patch/dlc. plain and simple, the 360 is their priority, pc/ps3 aren't a priority, this level of commitment is obvious.

Haha, something really funny about that cert process is that PS3 got a MW2 Patch today, but the 360 version is waiting on microsoft's cert process.  Which is really longer?  or is it just an excuse?

l was going to mention that but i didn't have the proper link. that even though the 360 version of mw2 outsold the ps3 version, all patches that have been made available for both consoles, the ps3 patches become available days ahead of the 360 version.

[TimeLordCat]

Is there a calendar for DLC and expansion release dates?

[Blue_dodo]

what does the patch fix is that all ? I personally find it REALLY annoying when companies don't give a release log as to what a patch fixes.



then again they rarely do for consoles...

[dbrncs30]

Am I the only person who's save files became corrupted AFTER installing the newest xbox update that was supposed to FIX corrupted saves? My files were working just fine until I installed this newest update yesterday... now I can't play my latest save files...

[inkaholicj]

Question- does anyone know if the RtO that first was downloadable then pulled is the same as the one that is now on xbox live? If anything has changed then I would rather delete and re-download RtO. Thanks in advance for any help!

[Dawnielle]

still waiting.. PS3

[wicked_being]

Anyone have any idea when they'll release the RtO for the ps3?

[goalerjones]

Fexelea wrote...
@goalerjones: DA is very focused on your party and the conversations you have, etc. However the combat system suffers from it. I love the game but there is a part of me that longed to see some Demon's Souls action in it, making me feel mortal and giving stamina a real meaning. You can like cake and cookies as well, both yummy, lol. On the team thing, however, WKC has online 4 player party campaigns and you even build your own village, hire townsfolk to grow herbs and stuff and sell it online to other players who you invite to visit you. Read this link: http://www.rpgsite.n...early-2010.html for some more ideas.

I tried Demon Souls but talk about a dramatic change in difficulty (the salesman at GameStop told me it was a lot harder and so he gave me a full refund the next day)! I will wait for Awakenings, but also I am looking into White Knight Chron...it seems a little more to my speed...

[Lux]

Victor Wachter wrote...

Starting next week, international gamers will be able to purchase Bioware points-in-a-box at select retailers, allowing them to purchase and experience DLC. At this time, we can confirm that they will be available in Germany, Poland and Russia. We're pulling together a complete list of countries where this will be available and retailers, and will update this message with that information.

Will this be available on digital platforms? Please, make it so. I'm able to buy your full games plus expansions on Steam.
I'd be more than happy to spend money on DLCs as well but I'm not being allowed to. On the other hand, the offer of all DLCs for a very small 'unsanctioned' fee is abundantly available in China. It's a silly, frustrating situation...

[Poisd2Strike]

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote...
[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Poisd2Strike wrote more drooling nonsense
[/quote]
Oh goodness, I cannot believe that after the locking of a thread you're just moving your ego trips to this one just in order to perpetuate your personal attacks. This is massively funny.
[/quote]

No, but what is massively funny is your hypocricy in accusing me of writing "more drooling nonsense"  and "ego trips" which any reasonable person would consider a "personal attack".

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
More insults and personal attacks. You sure put a lot of effort into it, what you lack, though, is a bit of imagination, not to mention, of course, brevity.
[/quote]

I will take  my lacking "imagination" and "brevity", anyday, to your lacking "patience", "sincerity" and any sense of "personal accountability".  Notice I left out a "sense of entitlement",  since that is one quality you certainly have plenty of.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Funny that you talk about pollution though. After the other thread you polluted, you had to come and pollute this one.
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not the one who initially accused you of "polluting" the other thread.  I am sure there are others, besides myself however, who would concur.

[quote]Wesley Wyndam price wrote...
This thread is full of smug pollution thanks to [Abriael_CG's] replies.  But you are wasting your time, he's just going to quote your message and refute it with his usual and predictable prattle and most likely mock or insult you in some sort of way.  The dude patrols this thread like it's an obsession.
[/quote]

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
I'm sure Victor is perfectly able to decide by himself what to believe or what not to believe without your very interested help.  As for me, I'm quite grateful to Victor for his effort.
[/quote]

Which explains why,  when you finally got the information you so persistently, vocally and adamantly "requested", you "thanked" Victor for his efforts (on all of our behalfs), with this little gem:

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
See, wasn't that hard, was it? I seriously hope a mess like this one will never happen again. Anyway, thanks for your effort Victor.
[/quote]

And when you finally were able to pay for Return to Ostagar, with the Bioware Points your previously purchased, you wrote:

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Question. Are we getting it here in Europe as well Victor?

Because Here in italy I don't see it at all, and I have reports from other European gamers that say the same.

Edit: disregard, it finally appeared after 5 minutes, the servers must be overloaded.

Again, thank you for keeping the promise in the end. Next time let's avoid the rollercoaster though.
[/quote]

That 5 minutes you had to wait for the DLC to appear must have constituted absolute torture.  A promise kept "in the end" is still a promise kept.  Next time try expressing some actual gratitude.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
You're in no position to say if my thanks to Victor are sincere. As a matter of fact, they're very sincere
[/quote]

If your "thanks" is supposed to constitute  "gratitude", I would hate to see how you express "ingratitude".  Explain how your statement "See, wasn't hard, was it?" - which stinks of patronization - wouldn't lead a reasonable person (Victor) to conclude you believe you could have done his job better than he could.  Like I said, the Apocalypse - as you and some others were humorously making the unfortunate delay of Return to Ostagar out to be - only happens once.  If the Book of Revelations turn out to be wrong on that one,  I suppose you could find the Author's
descendents and publically chastise them for "misleading" you into believing the Apocalypse would not be repeated and prompting you to buy that Beachfront property in Miami, FL.

Your lack of sincerity and real appreciation for Victor's efforts is about as subtle as a "kick to the groin"; which is essentially what you did with your back-handed "thanks".  Victor being a moderator on a public forum, however, probably necessitates wearing a "cup" to protect the family jewels.  While Victor certainly is able to "decide for himself", he is also an authorized Bioware Rep and, as such, is supposed to at least maintain some semblance of objectivity and therefore would not question your "sincerity"; at least not publicly. 

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
A lot of PC users already paid for the DLC when (on the 13th), Bioware told us that it would have been released "later today", so obviously people went and bought the points to get it.
[/quote]

Your statement is not only a contradiction but also logically flawed.  First you claim "PC users already paid for the DLC", which incidentally was not even available at the time.  Maybe I should go out and purchase that 2012 Cadillac Escalade.  Next you claim "people went and bought the points to get it".   So, which is it?  Keep in mind that both cannot be true.  For the former to be true, the content would have had to have actually been available.  The content was not actually available and, therefore, the former cannot be true.  The latter being true, does not require the former to be true.  No PC user "paid for" the DLC (on the 13th), since Return to Ostagar was not even available.   If you pay for "X" (Bioware Points) to get "Y" (Return to Ostagar), you have paid for "X" and not "Y".  PC users did, however, pay for Bioware Points with the intention of using those Bioware Points to purchase Return to Ostagar.  I will grant you that much.

And spare the insults to my (and others) intelligence:  I am perfectly aware one does not purchase Bioware Points / Microsoft Points for the sake of purchasing points.  Those Bioware / Microsoft points are purchased with the intention of being put toward an actual product such as Return to Ostagar.  Like you have Bioware Points, I also have Microsoft Points; some of which I eventually spent on Return to Ostagar.  I, unlike you, am not blaming Bioware for my decision to purchase those Microsoft Points ahead of Return to Ostagar being available on the Xbox Live Marketplace.  That was my decision and, therfore, I cannot in good conscience pass the blame onto someone else.  After all, I (and you for that matter) could have waited for Return to Ostagar to be available prior to purchasing points but we chose not to.  Or, at least "I" chose not to. 

You, on the other hand, clearly had no choice but to purchase those points.  I guess Bioware pointing a loaded gun to your head was incentive enough.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
You might want to notice that Pandemic and Origin haven't been closed down because they dared to discuss some mighty trickled down decision from EA. They have been closed down because they were unproductive, and as well documented in case of Origin, quite messy in their administration.  I'm sure EA is SO gonna consider closing down one of their most productive and successful studios (Bioware) if they dare to discuss a business decision, isn't it?"
[/quote]

Glad to see you're finally at least considering the possibility that EA (and not Bioware) might have been responsible for any SLR / NDA agreement.  The Ultima franchise (in the case of EA) and Full Spectrum Warrior (1st game), Mercenaries, Destroy All Humans (1st game) , Star Wars: Battlefront 1 and 2 were for the most part critically and publically well received; some moreso than others.  Although they might not have sold to the same degree as games like Halo or Half-Life, they were all generally well received and commercially profitable.  I am aware there were Administration issues, in the case of Origin, but given the relative popularity of the Ultima Series (at least through Ultima 7 and a lesser extent Ultima 8),  EA could have and perhaps should have internally resolved those Administration issues.  After all, EA paid for Origin and should want to protect an investment and make that investment profitable.  This is especially true since EA is a publically held company and has not only customers but also shareholders to take into consideration.

I never said EA would consider closing down Bioware if Bioware questioned a possible SLR / NDA with Microsoft or Sony.  What I actually said was "Bioware could have opposed the idea for an SLR / NDA with Microsoft or Sony and EA, for monetary reasons or otherwise, could have over-ruled Bioware's opposition to the deal."    Again, you need to stop putting words in my mouth and twisting what I actually stated just to suit your own ends.  Do you seriously believe that no one at either Origin or Pandemic voiced any opposition to EA deciding to close down those studios?  Since EA spent $800 million US to acquire both Bioware and Pandemic, and then subsequently closed down Pandemic, EA as least effectively paid most of that $800 million US for Bioware alone.  I believe it was OXM who made pointed out that Bioware will have to sell alot of copies of Mass Effect 2 to make such an investment worth it.  I have no doubt EA / Bioware will sell alot of copies of Mass Effect 2, given both the success of Mass Effect 1 and the generally good reviews surrounding Mass Effect 2.  A large amount of planned DLC for both DA: Origins and Mass Effect 2 will help EA recouperate at least some of that initial investment which at least, in part, explains why there should be a relatively large amount of DLC for both games.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Victor talked about their internal testing. As a matter of fact, yes, I am privy to Microsoft and Sony's certification process, and yes, they do give you a schedule. The schedule can undergo changes in the case they find problems, but when you submit something, they give you a timeframe in which they'll probably be done.  It's not your place, anyway, to discuss my personal resume.
[/quote]

If you didn't want anyone to discuss your personal resume, and question your qualifications, then perhaps you should not have mentioned you worked in the field of Marketing (in a public forum) in the first place.  BTW, which Game Developer's Marketing Department do you grace with your presence on a daily basis again?  I readily admitted that I am not "privy" to Microsoft's and Sony's Certification Process.  I theorized that Microsoft and Sony cannot provide a Game Developer with an exact, set date when a review will be done.  Hence, Bioware is essentially at Microsoft's and Sony's "mercy".  Meaning, Bioware has to wait for Microsoft and Sony to finish the certification process and provide Bioware with results, before Bioware can provide its customers with an exact date that an update / DLC can be released.  You then argued that Bioware was not at anyone's "mercy"; as if Bioware could unilaterally release updates / DLC on Xbox Live or the PlayStation Network without the prior approval of Microsoft and / or Sony.  The idea that Bioware can act unilaterally is patently false and you acknowledged as much when you said Microsoft / Sony provided a "schedule [that] can undergo changes" and "they give you a timeframe in which they'll probably be done".  If a schedule is subject to changes, as you yourself stated, then that schedule is not "set in stone"; which means an exact date cannot be given. Victor essentially confirmed my theory when he wrote:

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...
I'd love to give a date. But the testing and release process aren't set up to do that. When it passes testing, we're launching it asap. The best indicator we can give is very very soon. Obviously, we're hoping the stars align and we get it out on the front end of soon.
[/quote]

Victor did not explicitly state he was referring to Bioware's own internal review process, as opposed to the combination of Bioware's internal testing process and Microsoft / Sony's third-party Certification Process.  He additionally wrote:

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...
We've confirmed with Microsoft that the Xbox 360 Title Update and Return to Ostagar for the Xbox 360 will be released in the early hours tomorrow morning, January 29, 2010.
[/quote]

Victor further confirmed my theory when he provided us with the information he received from (fellow Bioware Representative) Fernando Melo:

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...
It is also worth mentioning again that as we saw with the original RtO dates, even once in Cert until we actually pass an issue can still be found anytime either by ourselves or Sony/MS which would re-start the process all over again. In practical terms, what that means is that until we are virtually on the last days of certification it is not easy to provide an estimated release date – and we’re not there yet.
[/quote]

So it would seem Victor was referring to, in this case, the combination of Bioware's internal testing process and Microsoft / Sony's third-party Certification Process, as opposed to Bioware's own internal testing and release process.  You assumed Victor was referencing Bioware's own internal review process; an assumption which turned out to be incorrect.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Oh and by the way, the dictionary disagrees with your definition of "mislead".  Chris didn't delibrately mislead us. It was done inadvertently, but it still was done, and directly caused us to buy the points. You trying to play with sophistries and semantics (wrong semantics, I'd add) doesn't change this fact, and the fact that an ethical business should take responsibility for misleading his customers.
[/quote]

I was not referring to the layman's definition of "mislead", in which mislead and misinform are often used interchangeably, but rather to the legal definition.  As I stated, I was referring to being "mislead" in a legal sense.  The legal sense of "mislead" requires a greater "burden of proof", and requires the information to be given "in bad faith" or "with the intent to deceive".  This is so because if a Corporation (for example Bioware) was to be found guilty in a court of law of "misleading" customers (legal sense) and causing "injury" that made those customers suffer some form of loss or "damages",  that corporation (for example Bioware) could then be ordered by the court to provide "compensation" to the injured party and / or parties.  For the record, I don't advocate and never advocated a "lawsuit"; as you would like to claim.  Although judging from the general bruhaha surrounding the RTO delay, I would not at all be suprised if some extremely disatisfied individual did advocate a "class action lawsuit".  Now that would be "laughable".

Since you acknowledge "Chris didn't delibrately mislead us", you also acknowledge that you are not "legally" entitled for any form of compensation.  Whether you are "ethically" entitled to any form of compensation and whether Bioware "should" provide some form of "compensation", in the name of "good public relations", is another matter.  Perhaps those who purchased Bioware Points for PC, say within 24 hours of the initial announcement by Chris regarding RTO, should be allowed to purchase RTO for half the original Bioware Points cost.

And your argument for being provided with information that "directly caused us to buy points" is logically flawed.  It would only be true if you were forced into buying those points and / or could not have done anything but buy those points.  Again, the following example is a valid Cause -> Effect Relationship:  You know you cannot swim but jump into the ocean anyway (Cause)  ->  You drown due to your inability to swim (Effect).  Which leads to the next valid Cause -> Effect Relationship:  You know RTO is not available at the time you purchase Bioware Points yet you choose to purchase those Bioware Points anyway  (Cause) ->  You (not Bioware) is directly responsible for your choice to purchase Bioware Points ahead of the DLC itself (Return to Ostagar) actually being available (Effect) and no amount of  "sophistries and semantics" on your part will negate the fact that you and you alone are "personally accountable" for what turned out to be both a premature and ultimately poor choice on your part.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
You say you studied contract law, but you don't seem to know the law very well (i can just giggle at how you seem to mistake ethics for religion by the way).
[/quote]

I have a substantially better understanding of contract law than you do. And the operative word would be "seem".  I never mistook or equated morals / ethics for Religion per se.  Again with the putting words in my mouth or twisting my words to suit you own ends.  What I actually said was:

[quote]Poisd2Stirike wrote..
Considering that modern laws are largely based upon morals / ethics and even (to some extent) traditional Judeo / Christian beliefs, hence "murder" being illegal, your statement that "Ethics and law have very little to do with each other" is patently false.
[/quote]

I suppose you are going to deny that Judeo / Christian religion generally encourages or advocates moral / ethical behavior on the part of its practitioners.  If the foundation for modern laws isn't morals / ethics combined with or re-enforced by traditional Judeo / Christian beliefs, then why exactly would an act like "murder" be illegal?  Murder is illegal because most rational people believe murder is immoral / unethical or simply "the wrong thing to do" and this belief is further backed by Judeo / Christian doctrine.  The Bible specifically states "Thou shalt not kill".  While
you certainly do not need to be Religious to be moral / ethical, your Relgious beliefs could (but don't necessarily have to) serve to re-enforce your moral / ethical beliefs.    Furthermore, at least in the United States before you give testimony in a court of a law, you are sworn in and asked if the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth "so help you God".  Incidentally, US Currency contains the phrase "In God We Trust".  So yea, silly me to think that morals / ethics and traditonal Judeo / Christian beliefs have anything to do with the foundation for modern laws.  For the record, I am Agnostic borderline Atheist.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Customers asking for informative communication on a product they already paid for definitely don't figure between any definition of "difficult" customers.
[/quote]

Oh that's right, you "already paid for" RTO in the same way I already paid for the 2012 Cadillac Escalade.  Customers who paid for one item (Bioware Points) and yet insist that they paid for another item (Return to Ostagar) and then virtually demand informative communication for something they didn't actually pay for (Return to Ostagar), do fit the definition of "difficult" customers.  The informative communication for the product you actually paid for is as follows:  Your Bioware Points were credited to your account.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
[quote]Poisd2Strike wrote..
While you would argue that Bioware should never have entered into an SLR / NDA, and that is certainly a valid point, I would argue that Bioware should never have promised that one platform (PC) would be given preferential treatment to two others platforms (Xbox 360 and PS3), as far as DA: Origins and any future updates / patches, DLC or Expansions is concerned.  My money, after all, is the same color as your's; so to speak.  I would also argue this point even if Bioware's chosen "preferred" platform was my own (Xbox 360).
[/quote]

Bioware delayed the game six months for PC users in order to appease console gamers, so yes. I think the decision to give the PC platform priority is entirely justified and should be mantained. Console gamers have very little to complain, given that in most cases with other games they're the ones given priority (assassin's creed 2 is a good example).
[/quote]

You can assert that console gamers are given priority in most cases, and give the example of Assassin's Creed 2 (which is only 1 example), but that does not mean your assertion is true in general; although it may be true in this specific case (Assassin's Creed 2).  I can offer the equally valid counter-example of Fallout 3 DLC and Fallout 3: GOTY for the PS3 console.  Not only did PS3 console owners have to wait for the DLC content, in the case of Fallout 3: GOTY there are substantial unresolved bug-issues that make the game unplayable, or virtually unplayable even now, on that system for many people.  This is generally believed to have something to do with the size of the Game Save file and / or a Memory Leak.  Bethesda has offered little response to this issue and most customers have given up hopes of a patch to resolve several of the issues.  In fact, the problem may turn out to be so large that a patch alone would not resolve the issue.  The entire source-code may have to be re-written.  If that is the case, then PS3 owners of Fallout 3: GOTY are basically SOL since there is no way Bethesda will make the financial investment to get the issue resolved.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Your money is the same? Sure it is. It's not like you'll never get your product and your patches. You're just getting them later, like PC users do in pretty much the whole rest of the multiplatform market.  Weren't you the one advocating patience?
[/quote]

Yes, I did advocate patience.  Bioware had to resolve the issues with Return to Ostagar, to Bioware's satisfaction and according to Bioware's schedule.  Not to my satisfaction and according to my schedule and not to your satisfaction and according to your schedule.  Had you exercised patience and waited for Return to Ostagar (for PC) to be available for download, prior to purchasing your Bioware Points, you would have been able to almost immediately redeem those very same Bioware Points for an actual product and actually pay for Return to Ostagar.  Instead, you chose to purchase your Bioware Points with the knowledge that Return to Ostagar was not actually available.

[quote]Fernando Melo wrote..
For those still waiting however - you do NOT need to have points purchased for the offer [of Return to Ostagar] to appear in the DLC menu.  So while you won't lose points either, know that you can wait for it to appear before having to spend any money, the two systems are not interdependent.
[/quote]

Perhaps next time to avoid what you categorized as a "rollercoaster", you will consider what Fernando said about "wait[ing] for [DLC] to appear before...spend[ing] any money".  And you could not have purchased Return to Ostagar, prior to January 29, 2010 for PC

[quote]CoS Sara Jinstar wrote..
[quote]Victor Wachter wrote..

Hi all,

We have some great news for PC players! Knowing that RtO has been so anticipated, we worked through the remaining steps in the testing and release process today, and Return to Ostagar will is now available for purchase and download on the PC today, January 29, 2010.

Thanks for playing and have a great weekend avenging the fallen Grey Wardens!
[/quote]

Thank you Victor, it means alot that even with all the delays and silence, you guys made the extra effort in the end to deliver to the pc fans as well. Muchly appriciated.
[/quote]

Victor clearly stated that Return to Ostagar itself was not available for purchase (on PC) until January 29, 2010.  This alone invalidates your ridiculous claim that you already paid for Return to Ostagar when you purchased Bioware Points on January 13, 2010.  However, it is good to see that at least some other PC customers (unlike you, Abriel_CG) do sincerely appreciate Victor's efforts and those of Bioware.

Hindsight is 20 / 20 and If Bioware has simply chosen to release DA: Origins (and all subsequent updates / DLC) on all platforms at the same time, instead of making any one platform the "preferred" platform, this whole situation could have been avoided.  For the record, I would argue exactly the same had the preferred platform been the Xbox 360 (my chosen platform).  If the Xbox 360 was the preferred platform and if there were still outstanding bug-related issues to be resolved on PC / PS3, I would encourage Bioware to provide PC / PS3 customers with updates / patches before providing Xbox 360 customers with new DLC (or even more updates / patches); at least until the PC / PS3 were both patched to the same degree as the Xbox 360.

And if an Xbox 360 customer "cried foul" and accused Bioware of breaking a promise to those on the preferred platform, I would argue that the promise should never have been made in the first place and Bioware's decision to break it, in order to restore balance among all platforms,  is entirely justified.    I would also argue that denying PC / PS3 customers a patch that would make their enjoyment of DA: Origins at least as enjoyable as Xbox 360 customers, for the sake of providing Xbox 360 customers with new DLC, is extremely selfish.  Buy hey, maybe that's just me.  While you would quote Alistair, I would offer a different quote:

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."  -- Mr. Spock (Star Trek II:  The Wrath of Khan)

I am not at all suprised that you "think the decision to give the PC platform priority is entirely justified and should be mantained", since your chosen platform for DA: Origins and updates / DLC is the PC and you would directly benefit, to the potential detriment of others which doesn't seem to phase you in the least, BTW, from Bioware maintaining that decision.  No one is about to accuse you of putting the best-interests of others above your own best-interests.

If you really felt that Bioware was acting unprofessionally and unethically towards you and other PC customers, you could have put your money where your mouth is and (on principle) simply refused to purchase Return to Ostagar for PC at all.  I plan on putting my money where my mouth is and never buying another Bethesda Developed Game (for the PS3) platform, even if the game in question is something I was looking forward to (for example Elder Scrolls Game or  Fallout) and / or exclusive to the PS3.  This decision is based upon how poorly Bethesda handled Fallout 3 DLC and Fallout 3: GOTY for PS3 platform.

There is a concept called "personal accountability".  You might want to consider investing in some, as it will make your everyday life easier and less stressful.  Or you can keep going with the "everyone else is to blame except me" approach.  I can only assume the reason you persist is that you must get some perverse satisfaction out of that.  If you didn't have anything to complain about, you would probably complain about not having anything to complain about.  While Bioware certainly bears some accountability, to you and others on the PC, who in "good faith" made
a purchasing decision based upon a statement that was also made in "good faith", that "purchasing decision" was ultimately "your" purchasing decision.  But what you purchased was Bioware Points and not Return to Ostagar.  Therefore you also bear at least some some accountability.  To borrow one of your favorite sayings: "It's really that simple".

Well, Veruca, it looks like you finally got your "Golden Goose".  Considering it's rather short life expectency (about 1 hour give or take) and the mixed customer reviews I have read, I certainly hope it was worth all the fuss you and some others made.  I have not yet played Return to Ostagar, but when I do I certainly expect some new equipment to be introduced and some story-related loose-ends to be tied-up, but I am not expecting any major new revelations.  I keep my expectations reasonable, so if they are exceeded I will be pleasantly suprised.

[AlmondBrown]

Awwww! Come on Man! "The Swami" NFL Today



My eyes are bleeding. Get to the point already, or just go to Ostagar already. LOL

[Prophet15]

Thats alotta word xD

[goalerjones]

I scanned the tome, but was disappointed to not find my posting in there...-

[awsome_robot]

Poisd2Strike, enough! Please! your looooooooooooong posts make me sleepy and... zzzzz...zzzzz.

[Ultron_ver2.0]

[quote]Poisd2Strike wrote...

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote...
[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Poisd2Strike wrote more drooling nonsense
[/quote]
Oh goodness, I cannot believe that after the locking of a thread you're just moving your ego trips to this one just in order to perpetuate your personal attacks. This is massively funny.
[/quote]

No, but what is massively funny is your hypocricy in accusing me of writing "more drooling nonsense"  and "ego trips" which any reasonable person would consider a "personal attack".

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
More insults and personal attacks. You sure put a lot of effort into it, what you lack, though, is a bit of imagination, not to mention, of course, brevity.
[/quote]

I will take  my lacking "imagination" and "brevity", anyday, to your lacking "patience", "sincerity" and any sense of "personal accountability".  Notice I left out a "sense of entitlement",  since that is one quality you certainly have plenty of.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Funny that you talk about pollution though. After the other thread you polluted, you had to come and pollute this one.
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not the one who initially accused you of "polluting" the other thread.  I am sure there are others, besides myself however, who would concur.

[quote]Wesley Wyndam price wrote...
This thread is full of smug pollution thanks to [Abriael_CG's] replies.  But you are wasting your time, he's just going to quote your message and refute it with his usual and predictable prattle and most likely mock or insult you in some sort of way.  The dude patrols this thread like it's an obsession.
[/quote]

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
I'm sure Victor is perfectly able to decide by himself what to believe or what not to believe without your very interested help.  As for me, I'm quite grateful to Victor for his effort.
[/quote]

Which explains why,  when you finally got the information you so persistently, vocally and adamantly "requested", you "thanked" Victor for his efforts (on all of our behalfs), with this little gem:

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
See, wasn't that hard, was it? I seriously hope a mess like this one will never happen again. Anyway, thanks for your effort Victor.
[/quote]

And when you finally were able to pay for Return to Ostagar, with the Bioware Points your previously purchased, you wrote:

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Question. Are we getting it here in Europe as well Victor?

Because Here in italy I don't see it at all, and I have reports from other European gamers that say the same.

Edit: disregard, it finally appeared after 5 minutes, the servers must be overloaded.

Again, thank you for keeping the promise in the end. Next time let's avoid the rollercoaster though.
[/quote]

That 5 minutes you had to wait for the DLC to appear must have constituted absolute torture.  A promise kept "in the end" is still a promise kept.  Next time try expressing some actual gratitude.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
You're in no position to say if my thanks to Victor are sincere. As a matter of fact, they're very sincere
[/quote]

If your "thanks" is supposed to constitute  "gratitude", I would hate to see how you express "ingratitude".  Explain how your statement "See, wasn't hard, was it?" - which stinks of patronization - wouldn't lead a reasonable person (Victor) to conclude you believe you could have done his job better than he could.  Like I said, the Apocalypse - as you and some others were humorously making the unfortunate delay of Return to Ostagar out to be - only happens once.  If the Book of Revelations turn out to be wrong on that one,  I suppose you could find the Author's
descendents and publically chastise them for "misleading" you into believing the Apocalypse would not be repeated and prompting you to buy that Beachfront property in Miami, FL.

Your lack of sincerity and real appreciation for Victor's efforts is about as subtle as a "kick to the groin"; which is essentially what you did with your back-handed "thanks".  Victor being a moderator on a public forum, however, probably necessitates wearing a "cup" to protect the family jewels.  While Victor certainly is able to "decide for himself", he is also an authorized Bioware Rep and, as such, is supposed to at least maintain some semblance of objectivity and therefore would not question your "sincerity"; at least not publicly. 

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
A lot of PC users already paid for the DLC when (on the 13th), Bioware told us that it would have been released "later today", so obviously people went and bought the points to get it.
[/quote]

Your statement is not only a contradiction but also logically flawed.  First you claim "PC users already paid for the DLC", which incidentally was not even available at the time.  Maybe I should go out and purchase that 2012 Cadillac Escalade.  Next you claim "people went and bought the points to get it".   So, which is it?  Keep in mind that both cannot be true.  For the former to be true, the content would have had to have actually been available.  The content was not actually available and, therefore, the former cannot be true.  The latter being true, does not require the former to be true.  No PC user "paid for" the DLC (on the 13th), since Return to Ostagar was not even available.   If you pay for "X" (Bioware Points) to get "Y" (Return to Ostagar), you have paid for "X" and not "Y".  PC users did, however, pay for Bioware Points with the intention of using those Bioware Points to purchase Return to Ostagar.  I will grant you that much.

And spare the insults to my (and others) intelligence:  I am perfectly aware one does not purchase Bioware Points / Microsoft Points for the sake of purchasing points.  Those Bioware / Microsoft points are purchased with the intention of being put toward an actual product such as Return to Ostagar.  Like you have Bioware Points, I also have Microsoft Points; some of which I eventually spent on Return to Ostagar.  I, unlike you, am not blaming Bioware for my decision to purchase those Microsoft Points ahead of Return to Ostagar being available on the Xbox Live Marketplace.  That was my decision and, therfore, I cannot in good conscience pass the blame onto someone else.  After all, I (and you for that matter) could have waited for Return to Ostagar to be available prior to purchasing points but we chose not to.  Or, at least "I" chose not to. 

You, on the other hand, clearly had no choice but to purchase those points.  I guess Bioware pointing a loaded gun to your head was incentive enough.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
You might want to notice that Pandemic and Origin haven't been closed down because they dared to discuss some mighty trickled down decision from EA. They have been closed down because they were unproductive, and as well documented in case of Origin, quite messy in their administration.  I'm sure EA is SO gonna consider closing down one of their most productive and successful studios (Bioware) if they dare to discuss a business decision, isn't it?"
[/quote]

Glad to see you're finally at least considering the possibility that EA (and not Bioware) might have been responsible for any SLR / NDA agreement.  The Ultima franchise (in the case of EA) and Full Spectrum Warrior (1st game), Mercenaries, Destroy All Humans (1st game) , Star Wars: Battlefront 1 and 2 were for the most part critically and publically well received; some moreso than others.  Although they might not have sold to the same degree as games like Halo or Half-Life, they were all generally well received and commercially profitable.  I am aware there were Administration issues, in the case of Origin, but given the relative popularity of the Ultima Series (at least through Ultima 7 and a lesser extent Ultima 8),  EA could have and perhaps should have internally resolved those Administration issues.  After all, EA paid for Origin and should want to protect an investment and make that investment profitable.  This is especially true since EA is a publically held company and has not only customers but also shareholders to take into consideration.

I never said EA would consider closing down Bioware if Bioware questioned a possible SLR / NDA with Microsoft or Sony.  What I actually said was "Bioware could have opposed the idea for an SLR / NDA with Microsoft or Sony and EA, for monetary reasons or otherwise, could have over-ruled Bioware's opposition to the deal."    Again, you need to stop putting words in my mouth and twisting what I actually stated just to suit your own ends.  Do you seriously believe that no one at either Origin or Pandemic voiced any opposition to EA deciding to close down those studios?  Since EA spent $800 million US to acquire both Bioware and Pandemic, and then subsequently closed down Pandemic, EA as least effectively paid most of that $800 million US for Bioware alone.  I believe it was OXM who made pointed out that Bioware will have to sell alot of copies of Mass Effect 2 to make such an investment worth it.  I have no doubt EA / Bioware will sell alot of copies of Mass Effect 2, given both the success of Mass Effect 1 and the generally good reviews surrounding Mass Effect 2.  A large amount of planned DLC for both DA: Origins and Mass Effect 2 will help EA recouperate at least some of that initial investment which at least, in part, explains why there should be a relatively large amount of DLC for both games.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Victor talked about their internal testing. As a matter of fact, yes, I am privy to Microsoft and Sony's certification process, and yes, they do give you a schedule. The schedule can undergo changes in the case they find problems, but when you submit something, they give you a timeframe in which they'll probably be done.  It's not your place, anyway, to discuss my personal resume.
[/quote]

If you didn't want anyone to discuss your personal resume, and question your qualifications, then perhaps you should not have mentioned you worked in the field of Marketing (in a public forum) in the first place.  BTW, which Game Developer's Marketing Department do you grace with your presence on a daily basis again?  I readily admitted that I am not "privy" to Microsoft's and Sony's Certification Process.  I theorized that Microsoft and Sony cannot provide a Game Developer with an exact, set date when a review will be done.  Hence, Bioware is essentially at Microsoft's and Sony's "mercy".  Meaning, Bioware has to wait for Microsoft and Sony to finish the certification process and provide Bioware with results, before Bioware can provide its customers with an exact date that an update / DLC can be released.  You then argued that Bioware was not at anyone's "mercy"; as if Bioware could unilaterally release updates / DLC on Xbox Live or the PlayStation Network without the prior approval of Microsoft and / or Sony.  The idea that Bioware can act unilaterally is patently false and you acknowledged as much when you said Microsoft / Sony provided a "schedule [that] can undergo changes" and "they give you a timeframe in which they'll probably be done".  If a schedule is subject to changes, as you yourself stated, then that schedule is not "set in stone"; which means an exact date cannot be given. Victor essentially confirmed my theory when he wrote:

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...
I'd love to give a date. But the testing and release process aren't set up to do that. When it passes testing, we're launching it asap. The best indicator we can give is very very soon. Obviously, we're hoping the stars align and we get it out on the front end of soon.
[/quote]

Victor did not explicitly state he was referring to Bioware's own internal review process, as opposed to the combination of Bioware's internal testing process and Microsoft / Sony's third-party Certification Process.  He additionally wrote:

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...
We've confirmed with Microsoft that the Xbox 360 Title Update and Return to Ostagar for the Xbox 360 will be released in the early hours tomorrow morning, January 29, 2010.
[/quote]

Victor further confirmed my theory when he provided us with the information he received from (fellow Bioware Representative) Fernando Melo:

[quote]Victor Wachter wrote...
It is also worth mentioning again that as we saw with the original RtO dates, even once in Cert until we actually pass an issue can still be found anytime either by ourselves or Sony/MS which would re-start the process all over again. In practical terms, what that means is that until we are virtually on the last days of certification it is not easy to provide an estimated release date – and we’re not there yet.
[/quote]

So it would seem Victor was referring to, in this case, the combination of Bioware's internal testing process and Microsoft / Sony's third-party Certification Process, as opposed to Bioware's own internal testing and release process.  You assumed Victor was referencing Bioware's own internal review process; an assumption which turned out to be incorrect.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Oh and by the way, the dictionary disagrees with your definition of "mislead".  Chris didn't delibrately mislead us. It was done inadvertently, but it still was done, and directly caused us to buy the points. You trying to play with sophistries and semantics (wrong semantics, I'd add) doesn't change this fact, and the fact that an ethical business should take responsibility for misleading his customers.
[/quote]

I was not referring to the layman's definition of "mislead", in which mislead and misinform are often used interchangeably, but rather to the legal definition.  As I stated, I was referring to being "mislead" in a legal sense.  The legal sense of "mislead" requires a greater "burden of proof", and requires the information to be given "in bad faith" or "with the intent to deceive".  This is so because if a Corporation (for example Bioware) was to be found guilty in a court of law of "misleading" customers (legal sense) and causing "injury" that made those customers suffer some form of loss or "damages",  that corporation (for example Bioware) could then be ordered by the court to provide "compensation" to the injured party and / or parties.  For the record, I don't advocate and never advocated a "lawsuit"; as you would like to claim.  Although judging from the general bruhaha surrounding the RTO delay, I would not at all be suprised if some extremely disatisfied individual did advocate a "class action lawsuit".  Now that would be "laughable".

Since you acknowledge "Chris didn't delibrately mislead us", you also acknowledge that you are not "legally" entitled for any form of compensation.  Whether you are "ethically" entitled to any form of compensation and whether Bioware "should" provide some form of "compensation", in the name of "good public relations", is another matter.  Perhaps those who purchased Bioware Points for PC, say within 24 hours of the initial announcement by Chris regarding RTO, should be allowed to purchase RTO for half the original Bioware Points cost.

And your argument for being provided with information that "directly caused us to buy points" is logically flawed.  It would only be true if you were forced into buying those points and / or could not have done anything but buy those points.  Again, the following example is a valid Cause -> Effect Relationship:  You know you cannot swim but jump into the ocean anyway (Cause)  ->  You drown due to your inability to swim (Effect).  Which leads to the next valid Cause -> Effect Relationship:  You know RTO is not available at the time you purchase Bioware Points yet you choose to purchase those Bioware Points anyway  (Cause) ->  You (not Bioware) is directly responsible for your choice to purchase Bioware Points ahead of the DLC itself (Return to Ostagar) actually being available (Effect) and no amount of  "sophistries and semantics" on your part will negate the fact that you and you alone are "personally accountable" for what turned out to be both a premature and ultimately poor choice on your part.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
You say you studied contract law, but you don't seem to know the law very well (i can just giggle at how you seem to mistake ethics for religion by the way).
[/quote]

I have a substantially better understanding of contract law than you do. And the operative word would be "seem".  I never mistook or equated morals / ethics for Religion per se.  Again with the putting words in my mouth or twisting my words to suit you own ends.  What I actually said was:

[quote]Poisd2Stirike wrote..
Considering that modern laws are largely based upon morals / ethics and even (to some extent) traditional Judeo / Christian beliefs, hence "murder" being illegal, your statement that "Ethics and law have very little to do with each other" is patently false.
[/quote]

I suppose you are going to deny that Judeo / Christian religion generally encourages or advocates moral / ethical behavior on the part of its practitioners.  If the foundation for modern laws isn't morals / ethics combined with or re-enforced by traditional Judeo / Christian beliefs, then why exactly would an act like "murder" be illegal?  Murder is illegal because most rational people believe murder is immoral / unethical or simply "the wrong thing to do" and this belief is further backed by Judeo / Christian doctrine.  The Bible specifically states "Thou shalt not kill".  While
you certainly do not need to be Religious to be moral / ethical, your Relgious beliefs could (but don't necessarily have to) serve to re-enforce your moral / ethical beliefs.    Furthermore, at least in the United States before you give testimony in a court of a law, you are sworn in and asked if the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth "so help you God".  Incidentally, US Currency contains the phrase "In God We Trust".  So yea, silly me to think that morals / ethics and traditonal Judeo / Christian beliefs have anything to do with the foundation for modern laws.  For the record, I am Agnostic borderline Atheist.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Customers asking for informative communication on a product they already paid for definitely don't figure between any definition of "difficult" customers.
[/quote]

Oh that's right, you "already paid for" RTO in the same way I already paid for the 2012 Cadillac Escalade.  Customers who paid for one item (Bioware Points) and yet insist that they paid for another item (Return to Ostagar) and then virtually demand informative communication for something they didn't actually pay for (Return to Ostagar), do fit the definition of "difficult" customers.  The informative communication for the product you actually paid for is as follows:  Your Bioware Points were credited to your account.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
[quote]Poisd2Strike wrote..
While you would argue that Bioware should never have entered into an SLR / NDA, and that is certainly a valid point, I would argue that Bioware should never have promised that one platform (PC) would be given preferential treatment to two others platforms (Xbox 360 and PS3), as far as DA: Origins and any future updates / patches, DLC or Expansions is concerned.  My money, after all, is the same color as your's; so to speak.  I would also argue this point even if Bioware's chosen "preferred" platform was my own (Xbox 360).
[/quote]

Bioware delayed the game six months for PC users in order to appease console gamers, so yes. I think the decision to give the PC platform priority is entirely justified and should be mantained. Console gamers have very little to complain, given that in most cases with other games they're the ones given priority (assassin's creed 2 is a good example).
[/quote]

You can assert that console gamers are given priority in most cases, and give the example of Assassin's Creed 2 (which is only 1 example), but that does not mean your assertion is true in general; although it may be true in this specific case (Assassin's Creed 2).  I can offer the equally valid counter-example of Fallout 3 DLC and Fallout 3: GOTY for the PS3 console.  Not only did PS3 console owners have to wait for the DLC content, in the case of Fallout 3: GOTY there are substantial unresolved bug-issues that make the game unplayable, or virtually unplayable even now, on that system for many people.  This is generally believed to have something to do with the size of the Game Save file and / or a Memory Leak.  Bethesda has offered little response to this issue and most customers have given up hopes of a patch to resolve several of the issues.  In fact, the problem may turn out to be so large that a patch alone would not resolve the issue.  The entire source-code may have to be re-written.  If that is the case, then PS3 owners of Fallout 3: GOTY are basically SOL since there is no way Bethesda will make the financial investment to get the issue resolved.

[quote]Abriel_CG wrote..
Your money is the same? Sure it is. It's not like you'll never get your product and your patches. You're just getting them later, like PC users do in pretty much the whole rest of the multiplatform market.  Weren't you the one advocating patience?
[/quote]

Yes, I did advocate patience.  Bioware had to resolve the issues with Return to Ostagar, to Bioware's satisfaction and according to Bioware's schedule.  Not to my satisfaction and according to my schedule and not to your satisfaction and according to your schedule.  Had you exercised patience and waited for Return to Ostagar (for PC) to be available for download, prior to purchasing your Bioware Points, you would have been able to almost immediately redeem those very same Bioware Points for an actual product and actually pay for Return to Ostagar.  Instead, you chose to purchase your Bioware Points with the knowledge that Return to Ostagar was not actually available.

[quote]Fernando Melo wrote..
For those still waiting however - you do NOT need to have points purchased for the offer [of Return to Ostagar] to appear in the DLC menu.  So while you won't lose points either, know that you can wait for it to appear before having to spend any money, the two systems are not interdependent.
[/quote]

Perhaps next time to avoid what you categorized as a "rollercoaster", you will consider what Fernando said about "wait[ing] for [DLC] to appear before...spend[ing] any money".  And you could not have purchased Return to Ostagar, prior to January 29, 2010 for PC

[quote]CoS Sara Jinstar wrote..
[quote]Victor Wachter wrote..

Hi all,

We have some great news for PC players! Knowing that RtO has been so anticipated, we worked through the remaining steps in the testing and release process today, and Return to Ostagar will is now available for purchase and download on the PC today, January 29, 2010.

Thanks for playing and have a great weekend avenging the fallen Grey Wardens!
[/quote]

Thank you Victor, it means alot that even with all the delays and silence, you guys made the extra effort in the end to deliver to the pc fans as well. Muchly appriciated.
[/quote]

Victor clearly stated that Return to Ostagar itself was not available for purchase (on PC) until January 29, 2010.  This alone invalidates your ridiculous claim that you already paid for Return to Ostagar when you purchased Bioware Points on January 13, 2010.  However, it is good to see that at least some other PC customers (unlike you, Abriel_CG) do sincerely appreciate Victor's efforts and those of Bioware.

Hindsight is 20 / 20 and If Bioware has simply chosen to release DA: Origins (and all subsequent updates / DLC) on all platforms at the same time, instead of making any one platform the "preferred" platform, this whole situation could have been avoided.  For the record, I would argue exactly the same had the preferred platform been the Xbox 360 (my chosen platform).  If the Xbox 360 was the preferred platform and if there were still outstanding bug-related issues to be resolved on PC / PS3, I would encourage Bioware to provide PC / PS3 customers with updates / patches before providing Xbox 360 customers with new DLC (or even more updates / patches); at least until the PC / PS3 were both patched to the same degree as the Xbox 360.

And if an Xbox 360 customer "cried foul" and accused Bioware of breaking a promise to those on the preferred platform, I would argue that the promise should never have been made in the first place and Bioware's decision to break it, in order to restore balance among all platforms,  is entirely justified.    I would also argue that denying PC / PS3 customers a patch that would make their enjoyment of DA: Origins at least as enjoyable as Xbox 360 customers, for the sake of providing Xbox 360 customers with new DLC, is extremely selfish.  Buy hey, maybe that's just me.  While you would quote Alistair, I would offer a different quote:

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."  -- Mr. Spock (Star Trek II:  The Wrath of Khan)

I am not at all suprised that you "think the decision to give the PC platform priority is entirely justified and should be mantained", since your chosen platform for DA: Origins and updates / DLC is the PC and you would directly benefit, to the potential detriment of others which doesn't seem to phase you in the least, BTW, from Bioware maintaining that decision.  No one is about to accuse you of putting the best-interests of others above your own best-interests.

If you really felt that Bioware was acting unprofessionally and unethically towards you and other PC customers, you could have put your money where your mouth is and (on principle) simply refused to purchase Return to Ostagar for PC at all.  I plan on putting my money where my mouth is and never buying another Bethesda Developed Game (for the PS3) platform, even if the game in question is something I was looking forward to (for example Elder Scrolls Game or  Fallout) and / or exclusive to the PS3.  This decision is based upon how poorly Bethesda handled Fallout 3 DLC and Fallout 3: GOTY for PS3 platform.

There is a concept called "personal accountability".  You might want to consider investing in some, as it will make your everyday life easier and less stressful.  Or you can keep going with the "everyone else is to blame except me" approach.  I can only assume the reason you persist is that you must get some perverse satisfaction out of that.  If you didn't have anything to complain about, you would probably complain about not having anything to complain about.  While Bioware certainly bears some accountability, to you and others on the PC, who in "good faith" made
a purchasing decision based upon a statement that was also made in "good faith", that "purchasing decision" was ultimately "your" purchasing decision.  But what you purchased was Bioware Points and not Return to Ostagar.  Therefore you also bear at least some some accountability.  To borrow one of your favorite sayings: "It's really that simple".

Well, Veruca, it looks like you finally got your "Golden Goose".  Considering it's rather short life expectency (about 1 hour give or take) and the mixed customer reviews I have read, I certainly hope it was worth all the fuss you and some others made.  I have not yet played Return to Ostagar, but when I do I certainly expect some new equipment to be introduced and some story-related loose-ends to be tied-up, but I am not expecting any major new revelations.  I keep my expectations reasonable, so if they are exceeded I will be pleasantly suprised.
[/quote]


serious post is seriously long

[DarthJake88]

I’m all for having developers delaying stuff for the sake of quality, but I would really like some information as to how long it will take. RtO was slatted to be released "this holiday season", I was unaware that meant (for PS3 owners anyway) Valentines day holiday season. And even that isn’t a sure thing. I love Dragon Age, don’t get me wrong, I, like many of us, feel like this hasn’t been handled very well. The 360 and PC owners got it. And it seems like the pc owners are having some issues getting RtO now. I understand things take time, but no one seems to know how much time it will take. There’s not even an estimate. Oh well, I like many others will be waiting to see if I will be able to 'return to ostagar' before the expansion hits. Here’s hoping.