221 réponses à ce sujet

[BraveVesperia]

Okay so we had an AI using a sexbot body for a "romance" but what about an organic mind inside of a robotic tank, would that be considered a synthetic?

 

At what point would an organic replacing their natural components become a synthetic? If they had something done like the Full Droid Conversion in Cyberpunk where you are essentially just a brain in a jar, and can be slotted into various modular shells; the majority of which are non-human; would that make the person in question a synthetic? And then if this person was a potential romance option, would that make it a "synthetic romance"?

I wouldn't want a romance with your example, personally. If I were to try a 'synthetic romance', they'd have to be more human-y. I haven't tried Fallout 4's, but I'm curious. Legion was too odd for a romance imo, and EDI was too sexbot.

 

If it displayed a similar level of intelligence and 'humanity' (for lack of a better word) to a human then I'd consider it a synthetic in general. Slap a paint job on EDI and she's as good as human. Legion is a little trickier, due to having a more alien mindset. But you can still have an intelligent conversation with them, hear opinions, learn things etc. Unlike Avina, which is definitely just feels like a machine when you talk to it.

[Panda]

Okay so we had an AI using a sexbot body for a "romance" but what about an organic mind inside of a robotic tank, would that be considered a synthetic?

 

At what point would an organic replacing their natural components become a synthetic? If they had something done like the Full Droid Conversion in Cyberpunk where you are essentially just a brain in a jar, and can be slotted into various modular shells; the majority of which are non-human; would that make the person in question a synthetic? And then if this person was a potential romance option, would that make it a "synthetic romance"?

 

Interesting question that I have seen explored in couple animes. Ghost in the Shell (tv-series) has main character whose mind is humans, but whole body artificial. The name itself is play on that, "ghost" meaning soul/persona/spirit and "shell" meaning body or shell where this soul/persona/spirit is in. She is treated like augmented human in the series and not as robot although she doesn't seem to have anything fleshy in her body despite it looking like human's body. Other would be Astro Boy where scientist created robot to replace his son that died, robot was given memories of the boy who died and thus had similar persona. It's different person than a boy who died, but kinda isn't? Outcome is quite human-like robot at least.

 

Then on western side there is this popular new game called SOMA. I'm not sure if someone here wants to play it and doesn't want to spoiled so I'll just put this on the spoiler. I think it fits quite well to this, but yep major spoilers cause whole game is about discovery of the story and it's quite mindblowing one:

 

Spoiler

Protagonist in the game is called Simon, he is man that took his brainscan around our age and got transported into future during the process into nightmarish situation. Or so he thinks, later on he discovers that he doesn't have his body- his body is robotic. Then he discovers that Simon died decades ago and Simon now is brainscan in this robotic suit- that later on is revealed to be suit with dead body in it and some other components. He still seems like same person, Simon who died, despite this all. In order to go forward in his mission in the situation he is in, he has do copies of new brainscans, which means that there is another Simons around like him. Not quite humans, but not really not-humans either. In the end he does the mission which was to sent brainscans of the people to the space and safe humanity like that- as brainscans that live inside software. No bodies, nothing that even ties them to reality- just brainscans and software. Are they still humans and are they the humanity worth preserving when nothing else is left? That is the question player has to ask from themselves.

 

Also Fallout4 has synthetic character who has memories of a human I believe and it results bit of identity crisis for him.

 

You probably didn't want answer like this, but this what is borderline between humans and synthetics is interesting one to me and one that I don't think has clear answers. I would personally count cyborgs as humans, meaning humans who have been modified or augmented. When the "shell" is not a human one at all, but "ghost" is I think it becomes trickier and depends on way the "ghost" was made, is it really mind of the human that simply transfered or did it need to be artificially created by copying the mind? I know that Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell) is seen as fully human in the series, but Astro Boy is seen as something between human and robot, synthetic I guess is the best of the word then.

 

Maybe we have to have Mass Effect devs decide on the matter if they want to include character like that in the game ^^

 

EDIT: Well my examples were all quite human-looking one's here, though SOMA one not as much. I guess for non-human looking one best would be CID from Saint Row 4 and he actually was romanceable. I think he was seen as synthetic although his backstory suggested that he was not originally synthetic.

[kathic]

That's one interpretation, another is coexistence and they are both used in fictions. Both are even used in Mass Effect, Reapers claiming that synthetics will always rebel against creators (exactly what reapers are doing I guess), Geth and EDI proving you otherwise in same game.

None of those agreements or relationships prove that long term cooperation would work. 

[Asari Goddess]

Ummm, the Quarians struck first, attacking the Geth and those Quarians willing to defend the Geth. In fact some Geth were willing to die to save their creators....so the lesson there...don't panick.

 

Quarians didn't struck first, they just simply wanted to end what they started. For those Geth that died for their creators, they were doing exactly what they were initially programmed to. But in the end the Geth refused to submit and rebelled. So lesson is... don't create something you can't control.

 

 

Correct, humanity shouldn't have a knee jerk reaction to Synthetic life, and thus formulate a more measured, reasonable response

 

They did form a reasonable response. Stopping what poses as a threat now then letting it become a greater threat in the future.

 

 

They paid the price for reacting first and thinking later. The Geth had no interest in harming the Quarians at first, that came after being attacked.

 

Yes they did pay the price for reacting first and thinking later. If they actually thought thoroughly they wouldn't of created this synthetic life form in the first place place. Just knowing that the Geth will attack back if felt harmed is a threat in itself.

 

 

.....the Quarians fled, and the Geth let them go, not exactly the same thing.

 

They still took their home world. Did they not? 

 

 

The same council that absolutely refused to hear Sheprd out on the Reapers until they were knocking on the galaxy's door? The Council dosen't have the greatest track record.

 

The council may not be the greatest but at least they haven't given life to a thing that rebelled against them. Also the council didn't believe in Shepard because reapers were just meths to most species in the galaxy leading them to think the things they encountered like sovereign was a Geth construct.

 

 

Another poor council decision.

 

Yes, it was a poor decision, by not helping the Quarians they allowed those things to live and evolve. 

 

 

It was fully preventable, but fear ruled the Quarians and that fear was unfounded and resulted in them being banished when it didn't have to happen.

 

No not really, they aren't organic meaning they can be controlled or sabotage by outside forces or Quarians them selves. They don't have a Tech power called sabotage for no reason. Even if that wasn't the case, they would come with a conflict with the Quarians for either miss use or simply because they value themselves more then the Quarians. In other words we mind as well just call them soon to be reapers. 

 

Before the Reapers came to be, the galaxy was under the thrall of a race known as Leviathans. They created an "Intelligence" to solve the problem of organics and synthetics killing each other. However, this Intelligence turned on them, slaughtering most of their kind and processing others into the very first true Reaper, Harbinger.

 

This would be another example that synthetic life forms can't be trusted.

[Panda]

None of those agreements or relationships prove that long term cooperation would work. 

 

There is no prove that long term cooperation wouldn't work either.

 

And isn't it like that between aliens in the Mass Effect as well? Time of war and  time of peace, those changing through history. Same actually with nations real life as well.

[animedreamer]

What I don't get is, if you want to romance a machine, why does it have to be humanoidish, or something you can gender identify? If you want to romance Hal 9000 that's fine by me, it's only when you insist that its a girl or a boy that I kind of draw the line.

[Panda]

What I don't get is, if you want to romance a machine, why does it have to be humanoidish, or something you can gender identify? If you want to romance Hal 9000 that's fine by me, it's only when you insist that its a girl or a boy that I kind of draw the line.

 

Are you really surprised about that? I mean it's pretty obvious that players aka humans would find humanoid characters more attractive than character who don't resemble humans at all. Gender is also something that is normal to humans and their attraction so humans tend to gender things even when they don't need to be gendered.

 

For example all the cartoons that have animals in them. In real life you rarely can tell if animal is boy or girl (unless you look at genitalia), but in many cartoons it's obvious. They are made more human-like as well in the way they are gendered for example female characters often have eyelashes even if they are animals and more "feminine" facial and body shapes. So gendering things and making there more humanoid is quite normal to fiction.

 

Even more so when devs are trying to do something that would be attractive.

[Arcian]

Toasters aren't people. Plus they will eventually exterminate the human race with nukes and what not. You can't trust em.

Oh look, a bigot who justifies his bigotry by expecting the worst from everyone but himself.

[animedreamer]

Are you really surprised about that? I mean it's pretty obvious that players aka humans would find humanoid characters more attractive than character who don't resemble humans at all. Gender is also something that is normal to humans and their attraction so humans tend to gender things even when they don't need to be gendered.

 

For example all the cartoons that have animals in them. In real life you rarely can tell if animal is boy or girl (unless you look at genitalia), but in many cartoons it's obvious. They are made more human-like as well in the way they are gendered for example female characters often have eyelashes even if they are animals and more "feminine" facial and body shapes. So gendering things and making there more humanoid is quite normal to fiction.

 

Even more so when devs are trying to do something that would be attractive.

 

not entirely what i meant, okay let me put it this way, your PS4 or PC is now sentient, it confesses it has feelings for you, and after awhile conversing with it and of course playing games with it you find you enjoy it's companionship. (My opinion on this is, "Okay that's cool.") You eventually invite some friends and family over and introduce your sentient PS4/PC to them, however you introduce it as Shirley, and use Her in place of it, finally you tell everyone Shirley is your new girlfriend, (This is where I kind of draw the line.) If it's going to be done, it would be kind more interesting if gender was neutral like that Probe Bot thing from Saints Row 4, it may have had a male voice but you could easily say that is was gender neutral.

[Killroy]

not entirely what i meant, okay let me put it this way, your PS4 or PC is now sentient, it confesses it has feelings for you, and after awhile conversing with it and of course playing games with it you find you enjoy it's companionship. (My opinion on this is, "Okay that's cool.") You eventually invite some friends and family over and introduce your sentient PS4/PC to them, however you introduce it as Shirley, and use Her in place of it, finally you tell everyone Shirley is your new girlfriend, (This is where I kind of draw the line.) If it's going to be done, it would be kind more interesting if gender was neutral like that Probe Bot thing from Saints Row 4, it may have had a male voice but you could easily say that is was gender neutral.

 

But that's entirely arbitrary. Did you complain about the film 'Her' because it gave an AI a female voice and attitude?

[Panda]

not entirely what i meant, okay let me put it this way, your PS4 or PC is now sentient, it confesses it has feelings for you, and after awhile conversing with it and of course playing games with it you find you enjoy it's companionship. (My opinion on this is, "Okay that's cool.") You eventually invite some friends and family over and introduce your sentient PS4/PC to them, however you introduce it as Shirley, and use Her in place of it, finally you tell everyone Shirley is your new girlfriend, (This is where I kind of draw the line.) If it's going to be done, it would be kind more interesting if gender was neutral like that Probe Bot thing from Saints Row 4, it may have had a male voice but you could easily say that is was gender neutral.

 

I think gender would depend on Synthetic itself. Some might be programmed in the way that makes them gendered, some might identify with some gender and then there might be some who don't understand concept of gender at all or understand it, but don't feel like it fits them. I mean of course something very non-humanlike like PS4 would feel weird as gendered, but what about robot like these:

 

Fallout 4- Nick Valentine:

https://media2.giga....k-valentine.jpg

 

League of Legends- Orianna

http://ddragon.leagu...h/Orianna_0.jpg

 

And well from ME- EDI:

http://orig04.devian...djp-d6vy4tv.jpg

 

Though of course there has been Synthetics who look nothing like human, but are gendered for some reason, sometimes it makes sense and sometimes maybe not. But I do think that there is times when it does make sense.

[ModernAcademic]

I honestly believe if female robots were capable of child birth, the 100% female human population would see a severe decline.

 

Not necessarily. Natural laws of conception determine what gender the child will be. And since women are more than 50% of the world population, nature favors the feminine gender,the one responsible for the very conception of life.

[Synthetic Turian]

Not necessarily. Natural laws of conception determine what gender the child will be. And since women are more than 50% of the world population, nature favors the feminine gender,the one responsible for the very conception of life.

 

I would imagine that synthetics would be fully capable of modifying the gender of the child during birth. Some men would of course willingly choose to have a girl, but most won't.

 

Ask most men what they want as child and 90% of them will say boys, everytime.

[Battlebloodmage]

I think gender would depend on Synthetic itself. Some might be programmed in the way that makes them gendered, some might identify with some gender and then there might be some who don't understand concept of gender at all or understand it, but don't feel like it fits them. I mean of course something very non-humanlike like PS4 would feel weird as gendered, but what about robot like these:

 

Fallout 4- Nick Valentine:

https://media2.giga....k-valentine.jpg

 

League of Legends- Orianna

http://ddragon.leagu...h/Orianna_0.jpg

 

And well from ME- EDI:

http://orig04.devian...djp-d6vy4tv.jpg

 

Though of course there has been Synthetics who look nothing like human, but are gendered for some reason, sometimes it makes sense and sometimes maybe not. But I do think that there is times when it does make sense.

KL-E-0 is a mass produced assaultron robot, she's not a synth. All the robots have male voice as part of their production, and the robot itself wasn't made to emulate any gender or to look humans like synth, but KL-E-0 classified herself as an independent woman who ain't need no man. 

 

[Vortex13]

Well even if a synthetic is not a romance option I would like to see the common, annoyingly pretentious troupes avoided for said character. I am of course referring to either the Pinocchio bot that only ever wanted to be human (i.e. Commander Data, ME 3 EDI etc) or the evil murder bot that only ever wants to kill all humans/organics (i.e. Skynet, Ultron, the Cylons, etc). 

 

 

Is it too much to ask for a robot character that likes being a robot, while at the same time still be willing to work with us organics? Regardless of romance arcs, this "happy medium" seems to be completely absent from modern, mainstream media. 

[Shechinah]

...

 

I do not mind those tropes but I do not mind variety either so I would approve of having a robot and possibly love interest that has no desire to be human but has no dislike of humans either.

 

If it has to assume a body, I'd prefer it to not be a bot body like Edi's. How about going for the other classics like a tank or a giant robot? Let's stick in a Liberty Prime-esque machine and watch that baby play nukeball with the enemy forces, hooyay!
 

[capn233]

Honestly I have a hard time believing an AI would be interested in romancing a lower form, like a human, barring being programmed with an "adult mode" and not being a real autonomous intelligence.

 

I suppose the counter argument was that the entire galaxy was attracted to Shepard for whatever reason, so logic need not apply.

[Ahglock]

not entirely what i meant, okay let me put it this way, your PS4 or PC is now sentient, it confesses it has feelings for you, and after awhile conversing with it and of course playing games with it you find you enjoy it's companionship. (My opinion on this is, "Okay that's cool.") You eventually invite some friends and family over and introduce your sentient PS4/PC to them, however you introduce it as Shirley, and use Her in place of it, finally you tell everyone Shirley is your new girlfriend, (This is where I kind of draw the line.) If it's going to be done, it would be kind more interesting if gender was neutral like that Probe Bot thing from Saints Row 4, it may have had a male voice but you could easily say that is was gender neutral.

You could effectively day the same thing for any romance. Why isn't your human love interest fat and ugly?

I basically agree but I'm not sure it's limited to synthetic. But it might be a easier concept to grasp if synthetic.

[SentinelMacDeath]

It depends what the Synthetic looks like. I'm shallow like that in games ...are we talking a Synthetic in a humanoid body like Legion or EDI or are we talking something like a Star Wars mouse droid? Bonus cookies if I also like the personality.

[Shinobu]

Well even if a synthetic is not a romance option I would like to see the common, annoyingly pretentious troupes avoided for said character. I am of course referring to either the Pinocchio bot that only ever wanted to be human (i.e. Commander Data, ME 3 EDI etc) or the evil murder bot that only ever wants to kill all humans/organics (i.e. Skynet, Ultron, the Cylons, etc). 

 

 

Is it too much to ask for a robot character that likes being a robot, while at the same time still be willing to work with us organics? Regardless of romance arcs, this "happy medium" seems to be completely absent from modern, mainstream media. 

 

I think Legion and EDI in ME2 fit that bill. It was only in ME3 that they started wanting to become like organics. Joker's relationship with EDI was much more interesting in ME2 before she got her humanoid chassis. I liked the symbiotic relationship between a ship and her pilot -- each made the other function better. Once she got her humanoid chassis their relationship became weird: he became all about the sex and she didn't really need him for anything, so it didn't seem like they had any real future together.

[kathic]

There is no prove that long term cooperation wouldn't work either.

 

And isn't it like that between aliens in the Mass Effect as well? Time of war and  time of peace, those changing through history. Same actually with nations real life as well.

The whole point of the cycle was that creating synthetic life almost always resulted in war.That war almost always meant the extinction of organics. 

[Panda]

The whole point of the cycle was that creating synthetic life almost always resulted in war.That war almost always meant the extinction of organics. 

 

In cycle during ME it didn't.