129 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Unless I really misunderstand the game's premise, I would expect to need to do a fair bit of looting, scavenging, resource hunting.

We might not find other civilizations in Andromeda with whom we could trade. And even if we did, we'd need something of value to offer in trade.

Finding resource nodes via exploration ala ME1, and marking them for harvest could work well.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah because there isn't a huge history of arming yourself in the field. What would be the problem in picking up a enemies gun to kill more enemies. They can come up with lore reasons no problem, but why is there resistance to this. It's not asking for you to carry 39 assault rifles just one.

 

I can imagine it being like prawn weapons where they're locked with biometrics. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah because there isn't a huge history of arming yourself in the field. 

 

If you are facing opponents who have superior firepower, you are alone and your sole resistance is a side arm, plan of action is you wish to acquire a fresh weapon, if they have even rudimentary understanding of small unit tactics-Your dead.

 

Better hope their ****** poor mercs rather then trained infantry in this case my friend.

 

Its pretty much that simple.

[Pasquale1234]

Maybe I was not in an apparent combat situation. I was out buying groceries or at a negotiation where heavier weapons would cause a incident. Maybe my primary weapon is out of ammo and I need a new weapon. Maybe my other weapon is a shotgun and the enemies are at a range that it's not practical.

Or maybe you were meeting your pilot for dinner at a sushi place, and the only weapon you could get your hands on was lifted from one of the mercs trying to kill you.

[Master Warder Z_]

Or maybe you were meeting your pilot for dinner at a sushi place, and the only weapon you could get your hands on was lifted from one of the mercs trying to kill you.

 

That was a good example, pity CAT-6 were total trash rather then professionals or they could actually done something.

[Synthetic Turian]

That's...nice? Kind of irrelevant to what I was saying. The point is that something that is, ostensibly, totally optional, is often not really viewed by the player base as totally optional. If that thing is pure drudgery - again, as perceived by the playerbase - then it's a Bad Thing.

For instance, you think that it is much more immersive for a space Special Forces operative and CO of a spaceship, in the future, to be personally going out on foot to planets to "gather resources" rather than sending out drones to do the gathering for her. This is, on even the slightest critical examination, ridiculous. (That the gathering is even necessary or possible at all is pretty silly too.) This is a complaint that is not wrong, because you're the one who determines what is 'immersive' for you, but it is based on idiosyncratic beliefs, so it is easy to ignore. But a similar complaint - that resource-gathering in ME2 was a boring time-sink - is not easy to ignore, because planet scanning was, by any reasonable definition, very boring, and even though it was not totally and fully necessary to beat the game it still had a sizable impact on gameplay and as such was viewed by many people as something that Could Not Be Avoided.

So, to bring this full circle, you claiming that upgrading weapons via drops would not be totally and fully necessary is irrelevant. That would not stop the complaints, because upgrading weapons is a thing that makes life easier for players in games and forcing people to slog through the old ME1 cumbersome inventory nightmare for them would be a Problem for them.
 

 

It's not at all irrelevant, as the main topic is about weapon drops and resource gathering. I merely used ME2 as a prior example of what I'm not interested in seeing again. Sure, you can send out drones to collect resources, but now the questions become: How accurate are these drones on their own, can they be damaged, can they be captured, does this involve any kind of manual control input for them to function at high efficiency? What about battery life?

 

My immersion is based on exploration. I see nothing wrong with The Special Forces and CO of a ship exploring a planet (for any reason). Also, collection of resources would never have to be the primary objective. As in ME1, there could be downed drones on the planet that can be analyzed for data recovery. Or hidden pirate squad bases that the player can choose to infiltrate. Or a random encounters with dangerous wild life. There are many other examples of how a player can be fully immersed into a planet, all while collecting resources in the mean time. What becomes cumbersome, is when you tell players: If you don't collect these resources, your overall game experience will suffer as a result.

All of that planet probing and element collecting was a necessity, because if you chose not to do it, people would die (a direct example being elements for ship defensive and offensive capabilities). The only thing ridiculous about personal resource gathering, would be if the planet's environment was too harsh to properly explore without dying. Only then should you have to implement drones and probes. But, a player comes across a planet, that sustains life, and instead of exploring the planet (again, for any reason, resources included) you choose to send a drone out to collect resources. That's....fun?

 

Also, one person's immersion can easily differ from another person, which at the end of the day amounts to personal preference. People will complain no matter what. 

 

So you think, like, American Green Berets regularly go out on ops where some of the dudes are just packing Berettas and have to scavenge AKs from the people that they kill?

Come on. N7 graduates are Special Forces. They get the best stuff for what they do before they go into combat, unless combat is a surprise.

 

In your example of American Green Berets, I would assume any reasoning for them doing anything or going anywhere, would have a direct mission objective attached to it. Once the mission has ended, yes, they will be scavenging those AKs from the people they've killed. Or at the very least, studying the AK if it's an unknown new type of AK, or somehow modified to be more lethal.

 

I also think it's much more complicated then: Since they're special forces, we should only use them for combat and nothing else.

 

But on the subject of combat, after they defeat an enemy encampment with resources, would it seriously kill them to collect data or resources afterword?

[Ahglock]

If you are facing opponents who have superior firepower, you are alone and your sole resistance is a side arm, plan of action is you wish to acquire a fresh weapon, if they have even rudimentary understanding of small unit tactics-Your dead.

Better hope their ****** poor mercs rather then trained infantry in this case my friend.

Its pretty much that simple.

Biotics, tech, stealth you are the effing protagonist who murders his way through thousands so your point is bizarre.

[Ahglock]

That was a good example, pity CAT-6 were total trash rather then professionals or they could actually done something.

Everyone is total trash as you are the protagonist.

[Han Shot First]

The less inventory clutter, the better. Managing inventory is one of my least favorite RPG features by far. They are best tedious and at worst painful. 

 

Id rather weapons and upgrades were handed similarly to how they were dealt with in ME3. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Biotics, tech, stealth you are the effing protagonist who murders his way through thousands so your point is bizarre.

 

According the scenario you laid down, you are ill equipped for confrontation, and yet you will be pressed into it regardless thus the mandate of actually defeating an opponent and acquiring a "better" weapon should result in the predictable result of player death.

 

Everyone is total trash as you are the protagonist.

 

My gripe with most action oriented games.

 

Its done for the sake of game balancing obviously, you cannot have competent enemies thus my dislike.

[Ahglock]

I can imagine it being like prawn weapons where they're locked with biometrics.

Sure. No problem with a lore reason if they don't design it in. I'd hope the lore adds that if you can't pick up the gun. But assuming there isn't a lore reason, why not?

It doesn't even have to be pistol to assault rifle it just might be a better assault rifle. Or maybe there guns use a different ammo than thermal clips so you want to swap to a weapon where the enemies you kill allows you to replenish ammo etc. There is a wide range of practical and real world examples where this can be and has been done. So why not in this game from a game play and not lore perspective?

[Ahglock]

According the scenario you laid down, you are ill equipped for confrontation, and yet you will be pressed into it regardless thus the mandate of actually defeating an opponent and acquiring a "better" weapon should result in the predictable result of player death. .

Ill equipped does not mean death even when pressed into conflict. Range, terrain , your awareness of the attack before it happens all play factors. A pistol indoors is not significantly worse than a assault rifle in the short term. I gave virtually no details on the situation as I was leaving it open. Some might be borderline impossible to get out of others not as bad.

[Master Warder Z_]

I can imagine it being like prawn weapons where they're locked with biometrics. 

 

Metal Gear Solid did that back in 2001

 

Hence why you can't jack one of those lovely AN-94's 

[Master Warder Z_]

Ill equipped does not mean death even when pressed into conflict.

 

I'd argue it results in it more then it doesn't.

[Sartoz]

                                                                                                 <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

No... makes it look too much like DA:I and I have enough fill of schematics and loot drops.

 

My view is to keep it simple.

[Ahglock]

I'd argue it results in it more then it doesn't.

All else being equal sure. But this being a game they will create scenarios where it doesn't mean instant death. You will spot the ambush early so you ambush the ambushers, they won't be nearly as well trained as you, it will be close quartered enough at first that your weapon choice won't kill you etc. And this ignores that a lot of classes aren't as gun dependent.

[Master Warder Z_]

All else being equal sure. But this being a game they will create scenarios where it doesn't mean instant death. 

 

Indeed, games are like that after all, most of them anyway.

 

Relying upon the narrative/gameplay to save the player, yes the trope ensures survival even when anyone with a actual human physique would be dead.

 

You can theoretically even survive a Phantom impalement in if you spam medigel quick enough. Despite ya know...you having a hole where your stomach used to be.

[Mdizzletr0n]

That's...nice? Kind of irrelevant to what I was saying. The point is that something that is, ostensibly, totally optional, is often not really viewed by the player base as totally optional. If that thing is pure drudgery - again, as perceived by the playerbase - then it's a Bad Thing.

For instance, you think that it is much more immersive for a space Special Forces operative and CO of a spaceship, in the future, to be personally going out on foot to planets to "gather resources" rather than sending out drones to do the gathering for her. This is, on even the slightest critical examination, ridiculous. (That the gathering is even necessary or possible at all is pretty silly too.) This is a complaint that is not wrong, because you're the one who determines what is 'immersive' for you, but it is based on idiosyncratic beliefs, so it is easy to ignore. But a similar complaint - that resource-gathering in ME2 was a boring time-sink - is not easy to ignore, because planet scanning was, by any reasonable definition, very boring, and even though it was not totally and fully necessary to beat the game it still had a sizable impact on gameplay and as such was viewed by many people as something that Could Not Be Avoided.

So, to bring this full circle, you claiming that upgrading weapons via drops would not be totally and fully necessary is irrelevant. That would not stop the complaints, because upgrading weapons is a thing that makes life easier for players in games and forcing people to slog through the old ME1 cumbersome inventory nightmare for them would be a Problem for them.


So you think, like, American Green Berets regularly go out on ops where some of the dudes are just packing Berettas and have to scavenge AKs from the people that they kill?

Come on. N7 graduates are Special Forces. They get the best stuff for what they do before they go into combat, unless combat is a surprise.

The protagonist isn't an N7 though? Isn't that what's been said already?

[Synthetic Turian]

 

 

N7 baby! 

[Ahglock]

N7 baby!

They have implied that he might not be. That is supposedly not the protagonist.

[Mdizzletr0n]

If you are facing opponents who have superior firepower, you are alone and your sole resistance is a side arm, plan of action is you wish to acquire a fresh weapon, if they have even rudimentary understanding of small unit tactics-Your dead.

Better hope their ****** poor mercs rather then trained infantry in this case my friend.

Its pretty much that simple.

Then you try to get the hell out of there. I'd like instances of where you can do/have to that because you're unprepared or under-leveled. Instead of just shoot and win all the time.

[Master Warder Z_]

 

 

N7 baby! 

 

Shiny 

[Mdizzletr0n]

They have implied that he might not be. That is supposedly not the protagonist.

He/she better not be a damned N7 again.

[Master Warder Z_]

Then you try to get the hell out of there. I'd like instances of where you can do/have to that because you're unprepared or under-leveled. Instead of just shoot and win all the time.

 

Indeed, but those styles of games aren't popular.

 

Folks want to solo platoon sized groupings of enemies and walk away without a scratch and feel bad ass.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Then they should play Halo, GoW or damn near every other Shooter that exists. They can even play the original trilogy.