129 réponses à ce sujet

[Synthetic Turian]

They have implied that he might not be. That is supposedly not the protagonist.

 

Wow. Seriously? Why would they show the trailer without showing the protagonist in it? 

[Ahglock]

Then they should play Halo, GoW or damn near every other Shooter that exists. They can even play the original trilogy.

So the game should change away from the current fan base? Mass effect is a RPG shooter both genres typify killing way too many people or things to be plausible.

I think it would be better to find a game where you can't kill your way out of everything for those who want that. Outside the producers I kind of hope the division will be like that.

When I play a shooter I want to play a shooter a stealth game should make combat more dangerous to punish getting spotted. Play to your genre not against it.

When your game included classes than can space magic charge into a huge explosion and he invinceable for a second I think you are shooting for over the top action. Not lethal tactical combat.

[Master Warder Z_]

Six Days in Fallujah would have been good for that niche where if you take rifle round center mass your floored with bruised ribs if not dead outright if the round penetrated and did a tumble turning organs and bone into salsa

[Mdizzletr0n]

You can still have over the top action. In many RPGs you can retreat (especially Western ones) and then come back at either a higher level or more prepared. How does that play against an RPG?

Plus it opens the combat up a little more instead of corridor after corridor of endless meat bags.

[Sanunes]

That's...nice? Kind of irrelevant to what I was saying. The point is that something that is, ostensibly, totally optional, is often not really viewed by the player base as totally optional. If that thing is pure drudgery - again, as perceived by the playerbase - then it's a Bad Thing.

 

 

You post reminds me of a post (or maybe an interview) from Dragon Age: Inquisition where a BioWare developer talked about how they didn't expect people to stay in The Hinterlands and get everything there before moving on.  They wanted people to move throughout the zones and not staying in one place until it was "cleared" which is what a lot of people did.  So a system like this I think would have the exact same reaction as Dragon Age: Inquisition from a lot of players and I also think BioWare will try to develop less systems that cause that type of behaviour as well.

[wass12]

I did note that. I was merely reiterating my point of view based on your use of the word wants that was italicized. For player like you who wants that Krysae, there will be options available to you to purchase (with in game credits) or create one (from various resources). Price and ease of manufacturing, will of course be based on the rarity of said item. Once a weapon has been acquired, it can be replicated (for free) and can be accessed by your entire squad.

So we have a completely deterministic system of acquiring gear. What is the point of destabilizing it with RNG? Including it seems superfluous to me.

[Keitaro57]

So we have a completely deterministic system of acquiring gear. What is the point of destabilizing it with RNG? Including it seems superfluous to me.

With a RNG system, devs can implement microtransactions to obtain the best stuff.

[9TailsFox]

My opinion enemy should drop nothing, except maybe weapon enemy was holding. Enemy shouldn't even give experience. All reward should be given for completed quests. And we should have shop of course.

[Synthetic Turian]

So we have a completely deterministic system of acquiring gear. What is the point of destabilizing it with RNG? Including it seems superfluous to me.

 

No. If anything would be deterministic, it would be in-game story progression unlocks of certain weapons. There wouldn't be any randomness there. Also, if the item you desire is available at a shop (can be bought outright, without any creation whatsoever), I'm not sure how that amounts into a deterministic system.

 

And as far as RNG, it wouldn't be destabilized, but very much replicate that of ME1, where is was modified to fit the player's progression. As in ME1, you didn't see, say, Specter Master grade weapons until late game, when you were your able to change your specializations for your class.

 

Player progression will heavily influence the RNG, making it impossible to get overpowered weapons and gear too soon in the game, hence ruining the challenge. But again, that's nothing new.

[9TailsFox]

Unless I really misunderstand the game's premise, I would expect to need to do a fair bit of looting, scavenging, resource hunting.

We might not find other civilizations in Andromeda with whom we could trade. And even if we did, we'd need something of value to offer in trade.

Finding resource nodes via exploration ala ME1, and marking them for harvest could work well.

This what it should be we should have mission to get resources we need in big quantity's. Not dress naked everyone we kill.

[Xerxes52]

I'd go with rewards being given upon mission completion (weapons, armor and weapon mods, credits, experience points, etc.) instead of being found or collected from dead enemies. Also the rewards should be specific, rather than random.

[9TailsFox]

So the game should change away from the current fan base? Mass effect is a RPG shooter both genres typify killing way too many people or things to be plausible.

I think it would be better to find a game where you can't kill your way out of everything for those who want that. Outside the producers I kind of hope the division will be like that.

When I play a shooter I want to play a shooter a stealth game should make combat more dangerous to punish getting spotted. Play to your genre not against it.

When your game included classes than can space magic charge into a huge explosion and he invinceable for a second I think you are shooting for over the top action. Not lethal tactical combat.

You know a lot of people like me play Bioware games for story and character and don't care for combat very much. I myself prefer ME2 combat it's much cleaner no unnecessary stuff  just focus on you mission save someone/kill someone. I am not really care about amount of enemy's even if 3 people squad take out 30. It's just annoying I have all team of bad ass and I can only take 2. Yes I know it's gameplay and story segregation and it's impossible to fix still  annoying.

[Wulfram]

Being able to pick up and use an enemy's weapon for that mission, and also being able to unlock the weapon for subsequent missions would be good.

But no gathering up weapons and armour and stuff just to sell them.

[SardaukarElite]

I don't want to be picking up things if picking them up isn't an interesting gaming experience or detracts from the current primary gaming experience. Scrounging ammunition to continue the fight is cool, getting a crafting recipe which covers half the screen with its notification is annoying and slowing me down, searching for hidden crates of resources is downright obnoxious. 

 

Sure. No problem with a lore reason if they don't design it in. I'd hope the lore adds that if you can't pick up the gun. But assuming there isn't a lore reason, why not?

It doesn't even have to be pistol to assault rifle it just might be a better assault rifle. Or maybe there guns use a different ammo than thermal clips so you want to swap to a weapon where the enemies you kill allows you to replenish ammo etc. There is a wide range of practical and real world examples where this can be and has been done. So why not in this game from a game play and not lore perspective?

 

I can think of a bunch of reasons why someone might pick up a new weapon in combat, but I also figure most of the time they'll be prepared and bringing the appropriate weapon they're familiar with and have adequate munitions for. So what I think would make sense is for the player to be able to pick up any weapon, but for it normally not to be advantageous. The mechanic exists because it unlocks the potential for cool story moments (getting ambushed while grabbing sushi with the pilot) and more gameplay things (if you can pick up weapons then being disarmed becomes an interesting problem rather than a frustrating one) but it's not there so that we rotate weapons as we progress through a level.

[Chealec]

I dislike super TARDIS backpacks that can hold a dozen giant guns and besides with the high-tech clobber in Mass Effect there's no guarantee you could even figure out how to use whatever has been dropped - or even if you're able to hold it in any kind of practical fashion if the alien that dropped it has a radically different physiology. So I don't like the idea of equipment drops of uknown tech that you can just pick up and use.

 

If it's equipment that you're salvaging for scrap or a gun you're already able to use then maybe - but I don't want to return to the ME1 inventory system where you'd have a dozen different armours in your backpack that you've salvaged - it didn't work for me with the SciFi setting. I can forgive it a bit with a fantasy setting as the alternative means you'd not be able to loot anything but even TW3 hand-waved it with saddlebags (there must be some kind of dimensional portal between Geralt and Roach's packs; maybe it uses magic borrowed from Nakor). Perhaps if you want to salvage an entire suit of space armour (or ten) you'd better have the Mako nearby to stash it

 

 

However...

If it's an equipment drop that you can scan with your omni-tool and send the readings back to your ship (akin to how it works in ME3) or a science team to attempt to reverse engineer to provide improvements - then yes. I think that's a much better way of dealing with loot drops.

[Chealec]

Indeed, but those styles of games aren't popular.

 

Folks want to solo platoon sized groupings of enemies and walk away without a scratch and feel bad ass.

 

The Witcher 3 wasn't popular? There are plenty of places in that game where, if you're just wandering around the map, you'll run into enemies you cannot defeat (unless you run away and come back after levelling up).

 

Divinity Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity ... basically pretty much every RPG I play has this as a common mechanic.

[Silcron]

I rather they wouldn't, I really like that ME turned more towards you going in with your stuff, instead of constantly looking at the new stuff to see if you should equip it. I'm not against temporary stuff like ME3 turrets or heavy weapons.

It's not that I hate the idea of weapons drops in a shooter, but I prefer them in mp focused games like Destiny, for a ME campaign I'd rather they kept it as they did with ME2 and 3.

As for resources, I don't mind it when it's minimal but I'd hate if I had to go around collecting resources to craft armor, weapons or whatever.Even in games that do have that resource collection like SWToR or Destiny I just end up buying them if I can, and if I can't, well, I'll look up a farming guide, put on an interesting podcast and farm intest of listening to the podcast and playing Hearthstone, but it's not something I'd consider fun.

[Pasquale1234]

I don't want to be picking up things if picking them up isn't an interesting gaming experience or detracts from the current primary gaming experience. Scrounging ammunition to continue the fight is cool, getting a crafting recipe which covers half the screen with its notification is annoying and slowing me down, searching for hidden crates of resources is downright obnoxious.

Needing to scrounge ammunition to continue a fight just makes me feel like the protag lacks the common sense to prepare for the mission at hand. Also - finding ammo stashes laying around any area where fighting might take place really gives the environments a shooting gallery feel.
 

I can think of a bunch of reasons why someone might pick up a new weapon in combat, but I also figure most of the time they'll be prepared and bringing the appropriate weapon they're familiar with and have adequate munitions for.

See, this is why I hate picking up ammo. The team should be adequately supplied when they arrive.

[Synthetic Turian]

Needing to scrounge ammunition to continue a fight just makes me feel like the protag lacks the common sense to prepare for the mission at hand. Also - finding ammo stashes laying around any area where fighting might take place really gives the environments a shooting gallery feel.

See, this is why I hate picking up ammo. The team should be adequately supplied when they arrive.

 

I take it that you'd prefer ammo to be more scarce and limited?

 

I like that idea actually. It would definitely add a sense of realism to the game with the theme of conservation.

 

Every bullet shot would now feel more sacrificial to your limited resources.

[SardaukarElite]

Needing to scrounge ammunition to continue a fight just makes me feel like the protag lacks the common sense to prepare for the mission at hand. Also - finding ammo stashes laying around any area where fighting might take place really gives the environments a shooting gallery feel.
 

 

Okay, I agree, I probably should have thought that through more. Video games and their phobia of minimalism mean that you usually chew through bullets (and enemies) at a comically absurd rate, so finding ammo becomes this weird kind of gathering cycle.

 

The point I was trying to make was that suddenly having to do something new in the middle of a fight can be interesting (if it's actually new). So I can see how picking up a resource I need to do the thing I'm currently doing adds to the experience whereas picking up a resource I won't use until I get back to camp isn't (and then I can't do that thing because I didn't get enough). 

 

I was thinking more along the lines of scrambling to get the rocket you need to take down that big mech thing than always picking up more bullets for all those troopers you keep shooting. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

So, would you like to see enemy item drops in Andromeda?

Absolutely. An enemy's weapon shouldn't cease to exist when that enemy dies.

[KaiserShep]

I take it that you'd prefer ammo to be more scarce and limited?
 
I like that idea actually. It would definitely add a sense of realism to the game with the theme of conservation.
 
Every bullet shot would now feel more sacrificial to your limited resources.

I'd prefer to not have "ammo" at all. After all, we are not firing bullets, and some weapons in the MEU are totally non-projectile, like the arc pistol or particle rifle.

[Pasquale1234]

I take it that you'd prefer ammo to be more scarce and limited?
 
I like that idea actually. It would definitely add a sense of realism to the game with the theme of conservation.
 
Every bullet shot would now feel more sacrificial to your limited resources.

I quite liked the overheating mechanic introduced in ME1. Ammo was essentially infinite, but the player needed to manage weapon overheating.

I hated playing a soldier in ME2 because of clip scarcity, and a soldier doesn't have much in the way of powers that can damage enemies. I had a similar problem playing an infiltrator, because I really wanted to make a sniper rifle my primary weapon, but could not find enough thermal clips to get through the battles, and frequently had to change weapons. That doesn't make fun gameplay for me, and it makes me feel like Shepard is a dolt for not bringing enough ammo. Also, having to scour the battlefield for clips after every battle is not my idea of a good time. They addressed that in ME3 by sprinkling crates full of thermal clips around all of the levels, and I think they also increased the clip drop rate.

I understand that a re-load mechanic is part and parcel of a lot of shooters, and something that shooter fans tend to expect. What I would propose is a hybrid of the systems, that could work like this:

-- Apply the overheating mechanic ala ME1. Players could avoid the need to re-load by managing the weapon's heat generation.
-- Have recyclable thermal clips as a back-up system. The clips are made of some material with ultra-fast cooling properties, and the re-load mechanic swaps them in and out of the weapon.

The best of both worlds, imho.
 

Okay, I agree, I probably should have thought that through more. Video games and their phobia of minimalism mean that you usually chew through bullets (and enemies) at a comically absurd rate, so finding ammo becomes this weird kind of gathering cycle.

The point I was trying to make was that suddenly having to do something new in the middle of a fight can be interesting (if it's actually new). So I can see how picking up a resource I need to do the thing I'm currently doing adds to the experience whereas picking up a resource I won't use until I get back to camp isn't (and then I can't do that thing because I didn't get enough).

I was thinking more along the lines of scrambling to get the rocket you need to take down that big mech thing than always picking up more bullets for all those troopers you keep shooting.

Well - ME3 introduced a weight mechanic, yet there were still some areas where they planted heavy weapons. There were a couple of places where their existence was nicely integrated into the story: 1- the rachni caves where the krogan scouts left weapons for us to use, and 2- the final battle, when we needed to retrieve heavy weapons from the downed shuttle. The other places where heavy weapons were conveniently left for us to find and use... didn't make much sense.

I'm hopeful that at least some of the battles of ME:A won't be the corridor shooters of ME2&3, littered with waist-high cover (and thermal clips). ME1's planetary exploration gave us the opportunity for multiple strategic approaches to an objective, and I'm hoping we'll see more of that in ME:A. Jet packs / boots could provide some interesting mobility options, as could various environmental features. Start an avalanche or rockslide, try to lure the enemy into a lava pit or other trap.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I hated playing a soldier in ME2 because of clip scarcity, and a soldier doesn't have much in the way of powers that can damage enemies. I had a similar problem playing an infiltrator, because I really wanted to make a sniper rifle my primary weapon, but could not find enough thermal clips to get through the battles, and frequently had to change weapons. That doesn't make fun gameplay for me, and it makes me feel like Shepard is a dolt for not bringing enough ammo. Also, having to scour the battlefield for clips after every battle is not my idea of a good time.

Not to mention Shepard's limited capacity to carry the clips, so you might leave a room full of clips behind, only to need them as soon as you're in the next room, but the door had magically locked behind you. Every time.

[themikefest]

Absolutely. An enemy's weapon shouldn't cease to exist when that enemy dies.

True.

 

Its possible that the enemies that are fought in Andromeda use a different type of ammo then what is used. So using their weapon would only last as long as the ammo left for that weapon. If anything, I would keep the weapon to study and the ammo that it uses.