146 réponses à ce sujet

[Synthetic Turian]

 

 

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

Shoot. I ran out of thermal clips.  

[KaiserShep]

If ammo drops are scarce, MP players could end up competing for them.SP squadmates apparently don't need clips.

This would be true if ammo drops were shared between players. Player 1 might see an enemy drop a clip but Player 2 might not in the same instance. In Destiny, for example, I can pick up a couple of heavy ammo drops but my teammate might see nothing but primary or special weapon ammo in the same area. In ME3 it's an endless buffet basket.

[Synthetic Turian]

Conrad and Shepard talking about thermal clips vs overheating

 

 

Ok, so, now I'm a fan of Conrad..

 

Mind = Blown.

[Laughing_Man]

I want something akin to WH40K Bolters.

 

None of this grain-sized projectile crap, instead a mass accelerator that shoots over sized explosive / armor piercing ammo, and has an actual magazine.

[Killroy]

To stay with that statement? You can't have a MP component not in someways mirror or emulate the SP and vice versa.

 

And since Battlefront doesn't have one, well..

 

Plus Star Wars lore wouldnt allow it.

 

You're not making a compelling argument. Why would the SP and MP have to use different systems? Why would EA care what ammo system ME:A uses if they're fine with their other games using myriad ammo systems? 

[Synthetic Turian]

You're not making a compelling argument.

 

1. Why would the SP and MP have to use different systems? 2. Why would EA care what ammo system ME:A uses if they're fine with their other games using myriad ammo systems? 

 

1. Because they can. For example, you can pause to select powers in SP, but theres no pause function in MP. 

 

2. Because they can sell players ammo (and other gear) via microtransactions.

 

 

Energy weapons aren't making them micro money after they are obtained. 

[KaiserShep]

Actually, they still could with "flash cooling" that immediately restores the weapon's ability to fire. The overall effect would be the same. With thermal clip weapons, the field will always have clips, but you just have to run out to the container, that for some reason, enemies don't just pick up and chuck off a cliff just to screw with you. I kind of wish that marauders did that. The player rage would be amusing.

[Wulfram]

I'd like to see a mix. Like we got eventually with DLC, but baked in from the beginning.

It makes sense really, different systems make sense for different weapon roles. They could even mix in some extra options - like a hybrid system where you can choose to vent or eject depending on the situation, or maybe one where you've got re-usable thermal clips on a rotation.

You could even have it as a mod option, so any gun can use either system.

[N7Jamaican]

So we're going to be like Star Trek with phazers and Star Wars with blasters now.

[N7Jamaican]

Patherfinder Ryder- "Crew set your Avenger to stun."

Drack- "Once I pop in a new thermal clip."

Ryder- "Make it so."

[RoboticWater]

I don't really care which system BioWare chooses so long as it's fun to play. Incidentally, imposing artificial limits on weapons can and often does add a beneficial layer of strategy to combat.

 

With a two-weapon system without weapon pickups or limited weapon options (Battlefront), the overheat mechanic works quite well because ammunition would never be a concern anyway. With a two weapon system with weapon pickups and a wide variety of weaponry (Halo), ammunition forces players to make situational decisions and adapt to their current loadout and environment; is the player willing to use up an equip slot to carry the rocket launcher and are they swapping the shotgun in long range environments? With a two+ weapon system and a fixed weapon system (Half Life, Wolfenstein: TNO), ammunition forces players to vary their attacks and use weapons strategically.

 

Mass Effect is a slightly different beast as it has power usage to consider. In this case, I still think ammunition would benefit the combat loop. Consider Dead Space 2: scarcity of ammunition not only encourages players to vary their weapon usage, but to make ample use of their powers and environmental hazards. This may encourage players to only use their most damaging powers rather than their most fun ones, but if BioWare diversify and add more situational strategy to their combo system (add more than warp+other thing=more damage), then varied power usage could still be encouraged.

 

I'm not going to pretend to know which system is definitely going to be more fun to the end user; only BIoWare have the stats and the QA for that but in my experience, ammunition is fun and limitations breed strategy. If BioWare can achieve the same or better results with overheat, then all power to them.

[CYRAX470]

Actually, they still could with "flash cooling" that immediately restores the weapon's ability to fire. The overall effect would be the same. With thermal clip weapons, the field will always have clips, but you just have to run out to the container, that for some reason, enemies don't just pick up and chuck off a cliff just to screw with you. I kind of wish that marauders did that. The player rage would be amusing.

I was just thinking of something like that right now. Rather than go full ammo system, keep the "reload" animation, and have character eject the heat build up, resetting the shot count.

No thermal clip, but still all actiony and stuff. Everybody wins?

[N7Jamaican]

I don't really care which system BioWare chooses so long as it's fun to play. Incidentally, imposing artificial limits on weapons can and often does add a beneficial layer of strategy to combat.

 

With a two-weapon system without weapon pickups or limited weapon options (Battlefront), the overheat mechanic works quite well because ammunition would never be a concern anyway. With a two weapon system with weapon pickups and a wide variety of weaponry (Halo), ammunition forces players to make situational decisions and adapt to their current loadout and environment; is the player willing to use up an equip slot to carry the rocket launcher and are they swapping the shotgun in long range environments? With a two+ weapon system and a fixed weapon system (Half Life, Wolfenstein: TNO), ammunition forces players to vary their attacks and use weapons strategically.

 

Mass Effect is a slightly different beast as it has power usage to consider. In this case, I still think ammunition would benefit the combat loop. Consider Dead Space 2: scarcity of ammunition not only encourages players to vary their weapon usage, but to make ample use of their powers and environmental hazards. This may encourage players to only use their most damaging powers rather than their most fun ones, but if BioWare diversify and add more situational strategy to their combo system (add more than warp+other thing=more damage), then varied power usage could still be encouraged.

 

I'm not going to pretend to know which system is definitely going to be more fun to the end user; only BIoWare have the stats and the QA for that but in my experience, ammunition is fun and limitations breed strategy. If BioWare can achieve the same or better results with overheat, then all power to them.

 

I didn't like Halo forcing me to use a weapon I didn't care for.

[RoboticWater]

I didn't like Halo forcing me to use a weapon I didn't care for.

Why? Many people, myself included, consider weapon variety to be a vital part of Halo's combat, giving the game an inherent level of variety and extra challenge.

 

It's not as if the game forces any single weapon on you at any point, so unless you disliked many of the game's weapons, I can't see how some limitations could hurt.

[wolfsite]

I had no problem with Thermal clips as it made you think more creatively in combat and use powers more effectively.

 

Hell once you got Friction-less Materials in ME1 guns became rather OP, especially for the Soldier class the difficulty was just gone.  With Thermal Clips you have to use more strategy in battle.

 

Even without Friction-less Materials you could just hide behind cover and just sit there since you don't have to worry about ammo.... unless you are up against a Krogan or Geth.

 

As a design choice Thermal clips work to improve the game since it pushes you to balance your gameplay between weapons,powers, and melee (once ME3 made melee viable)

[N7Jamaican]

I had no problem with Thermal clips as it made you think more creatively in combat and use powers more effectively.

 

Hell once you got Friction-less Materials in ME1 guns became rather OP, especially for the Soldier class the difficulty was just gone.  With Thermal Clips you have to use more strategy in battle.

 

Even without Friction-less Materials you could just hide behind cover and just sit there since you don't have to worry about ammo.... unless you are up against a Krogan or Geth.

 

As a design choice Thermal clips work to improve the game since it pushes you to balance your gameplay between weapons,powers, and melee (once ME3 made melee viable)

 

As an infiltrator, I went with "make even shot count." Playing the game as if I had one or two bullets left to get the job done. And as Engineer, I played as more of a support. Thats where my other 2 squad mates came into play. They were the ones with the fire power. 

 

I guess some people want to be able to pump rounds into Geth, Husks, humans, vorcha, etc, without any tactical decisions being made.

[SolNebula]

 

As a design choice Thermal clips work to improve the game since it pushes you to balance your gameplay between weapons,powers, and melee (once ME3 made melee viable)

 

Really I never noticed that since you basically find plenty of ammo crates left and right...it seems rather moot as a design choice. I basically never run out of ammo.

[Pasquale1234]

Hell once you got Friction-less Materials in ME1 guns became rather OP, especially for the Soldier class the difficulty was just gone.  With Thermal Clips you have to use more strategy in battle.

Having to switch to a sub-optimal weapon because your optimal weapon lacks thermal clips doesn't strike me as a positive enhancement to strategy.

As a design choice Thermal clips work to improve the game since it pushes you to balance your gameplay between weapons,powers, and melee (once ME3 made melee viable)

The soldier class doesn't have much in the way of enemy-damaging powers.

Melee can be fun, but enemies are not always reachable.

[KaiserShep]

The only time I really feel this "balance" effect of the thermal clip design is in MP, since camping by crates doesn't usually work that well, and in the AA arena with the modifier that removes them altogether. Other than that, my Harrier is always full even when I empty clips at brutes.

[Calinstel]

So we're going to be like Star Trek with phazers and Star Wars with blasters now.

Um, Star Trek phasers could and did, run low/out of energy.  So they did have 'ammo' in a sense that was very real and utilized in the shows.

 

If I misunderstood your post, then I am very sorry and, with that said, I'll just slip back into my hole. 

[AlanC9]

1.
Energy weapons aren't making them micro money after they are obtained.

You don't think EA could find a way to monetize heat-based weapons? Really?

[AlanC9]

Um, Star Trek phasers could and did, run low/out of energy.  So they did have 'ammo' in a sense that was very real and utilized in the shows.
 

Well, I think the clip size was pretty large. Ron Tracey and his henchmen killed thousands with , what, four phasers?

[Laughing_Man]

You don't think EA could find a way to monetize heat-based weapons? Really?

 

That's why you play the game on PC, where if you want to cheat you don't have to pay money for it.

 

Gamers should blacklist and boycott any video game that pushes micro-transactions in single player.

Especially the kind that "allows" you to cheat for money / items.

[RoboticWater]

Really I never noticed that since you basically find plenty of ammo crates left and right...it seems rather moot as a design choice. I basically never run out of ammo.

Which is why, no matter what BioWare do, I hope that they commit to their design decisions.

 

The way ammunition was implemented into ME2-3, it often played like overheating+: essentially infinite ammo without needing to wait on cooldowns. It's not much, but it did reduce the down time in firefights waiting on gun cooldowns, which helped me enjoy the combat more. However, I don't think any of the Mass Effect games have perfected the combat loop.

 

In my experience, a stricter ammunition system would improve the variety in power and weapon usage because that's exactly what it's designed to do. Overheat systems have their own benefits, but none that I think would improve the strategic layer of Mass Effect's combat. 

[SolNebula]

Which is why, no matter what BioWare do, I hope that they commit to their design decisions.

 

The way ammunition was implemented into ME2-3, it often played like overheating+: essentially infinite ammo without needing to wait on cooldowns. It's not much, but it did reduce the down time in firefights waiting on gun cooldowns, which helped me enjoy the combat more. However, I don't think any of the Mass Effect games have perfected the combat loop.

 

In my experience, a stricter ammunition system would improve the variety in power and weapon usage because that's exactly what it's designed to do. Overheat systems have their own benefits, but none that I think would improve the strategic layer of Mass Effect's combat. 

 

Hmmm ok but then how you create an open world game with an ammunition system if you are exploring uncharted planets? ME2/3 never had exploration and that is why it worked. Here we are going to explore massive alien planets...so how you solve this issue?