Bethesda copied something from Bioware and it was worst think possible.
Everyone complaining about dialogue in FA4. it's huge step back.
To be fair, they copied it quite poorly.
However, I personally haven't run into serious problems with the Bethesda implementation. I generally understand what each option means before I select it.
A general understanding is never enough for me. I need a precise understanding.To be fair, they copied it quite poorly.
However, I personally haven't run into serious problems with the Bethesda implementation. I generally understand what each option means before I select it.
A general understanding is never enough for me. I need a precise understanding.
I'm with you there! Prefer the way DAO handled it.
People want to know what they're choosing.
Then read what the wheel says? I never had problems in Mass Effect, Dragon Age or The Old Republic. Who knows, maybe I'm just a literature genius with epic foreshadowing skills?
Perhaps you weren't playing a sufficiently detailed character design.Then read what the wheel says? I never had problems in Mass Effect, Dragon Age or The Old Republic. Who knows, maybe I'm just a literature genius with epic foreshadowing skills?
Then read what the wheel says? I never had problems in Mass Effect, Dragon Age or The Old Republic. Who knows, maybe I'm just a literature genius with epic foreshadowing skills?
Funnily enough the bolded went back to full dialogue in the newest expansion.
I downloaded the lite version of that dialog mod for FO4 because that's all you need. Just a decent paraphrase of what the PC is going to say. The full version just has sentences running off the screen(so does the lite version in some parts). But just knowing the full dialog wasn't enough because then people on the forum requested to have sarcastic et al placed by the sentence so they would know if the sentence is sarcastic or not. So even with the entire sentence on display people still needed more info about the lines spoken. I can see why BW decided to just throw emotes into the wheel.
Then read what the wheel says? I never had problems in Mass Effect, Dragon Age or The Old Republic. Who knows, maybe I'm just a literature genius with epic foreshadowing skills?
I was thinking this, but did want to say it. I don't know how someone can accidentally romance somebody. I remember reading somewhere, a guy liked Cortez's storyline. He pursued it, then ended up in a relationship with Cortez. He was upset because he wish he knew what he was saying before his Shepard said it.
I first thought, "I like Cortez too, but I knew by the text, which may be perceived as a flirt or me being friendly and asking more about him."
Certainly not everyone complains about it and certainly not everyone considers it a huge step back.
Personally, I consider it to be a feature that I hope to see implemented in future installments of the Fallout series albeit improved upon and a bit more refined. An example of such improvement, in my opinion, would be the dialogue mod that removes paraphrasing and instead displays each dialogue option by what the actual dialogue the option represents is.
Make ALL options displayed in the elcor style. 
1. Pleasantly surprised: What?
2. Noncommittally: Um, what?
3. Rudely: Say what?!
There is no way you can accidentally romance Cortez. That guy either can't read or he romanced him on purpose and just don't want to admit it. You have to basically tell him that he should be checking you out, and that you're waiting for the right man instead of the right woman (which is marked clearly on the wheel), then agree to dance with him, the lock in point is kissing him on the dance floor. My canon is to go as far as dancing and flirting with Cortez then not lock it in by selecting a friends option, then go meet Kaidan for steak and lock in the romance with him. Liara is someone you can romance accidentally in ME1 due to an unpatched bug.
Sometimes we disagree with the developers about how the game should work. Mods are a way for each individual player to get the game he or she wants.
Casey Hudson thought the surprise we experience when we heard a spoken line for the first time (after we'd selected it) was a good thing. For him, the obfuscatory paraphrases were working as intended.
I can understand graphic mods or inventory mods where something was clearly designed for lower end machines (*cough* consoles *cough*) and different input devices but something as essential to RPG games as dialogue should be done properly from the start and not left to modding community to "fix".
Certainly not everyone complains about it and certainly not everyone considers it a huge step back.
Personally, I consider it to be a feature that I hope to see implemented in future installments of the Fallout series albeit improved upon and a bit more refined. An example of such improvement, in my opinion, would be the dialogue mod that removes paraphrasing and instead displays each dialogue option by what the actual dialogue the option represents is.
Yes but such improvement where each line of dialogue is the actual line that character says is what a lot of people wants. no matter if it's displayed in a wheel type menu or a list. Such improvement takes as back to the beginning of this (and not only this) conversation - why implement something that is not precise and need fixing (by mods) or improving?
I was thinking this, but did want to say it. I don't know how someone can accidentally romance somebody. I remember reading somewhere, a guy liked Cortez's storyline. He pursued it, then ended up in a relationship with Cortez. He was upset because he wish he knew what he was saying before his Shepard said it.
I first thought, "I like Cortez too, but I knew by the text, which may be perceived as a flirt or me being friendly and asking more about him."
That was probably me? I don't remember the details, but I remember pressing the "I'm eye candy" option because I had no idea what eye candy was supposed to mean in Spanish (my 1st language). I'm not sure if I locked the romance, thou.
Funnily enough the bolded went back to full dialogue in the newest expansion.
Yeah, apparently they couldn't get all voice actors in time (most popular theory) so they decided to go back to the mute protagonist from KOTOR 1 and 2.
The developers clearly think the lack of precision is valuable. To them, we're not fixing the game when we mod it. We're breaking the game.Yes but such improvement where each line of dialogue is the actual line that character says is what a lot of people wants. no matter if it's displayed in a wheel type menu or a list. Such improvement takes as back to the beginning of this (and not only this) conversation - why implement something that is not precise and need fixing (by mods) or improving?
Or it was just cheaper.That was probably me? I don't remember the details, but I remember pressing the "I'm eye candy" option because I had no idea what eye candy was supposed to mean in Spanish (my 1st language). I'm not sure if I locked the romance, thou.
Yeah, apparently they couldn't get all voice actors in time (most popular theory) so they decided to go back to the mute protagonist from KOTOR 1 and 2.
That was probably me? I don't remember the details, but I remember pressing the "I'm eye candy" option because I had no idea what eye candy was supposed to mean in Spanish (my 1st language). I'm not sure if I locked the romance, thou.
Same problem here. I get an harmless expression in my non-english version and by choosing this line of dialog my shepard completely try to flip over Cortez. "Quit game". "Load previously saved game".
One writer, might have been Weekes, said that you could write a doctoral thesis on the word choices that they use for the dialogue wheel.
Sometimes they win. Sometimes they fail.
The developers clearly think the lack of precision is valuable. To them, we're not fixing the game when we mod it. We're breaking the game.
We think we're fixing it, though, which is why we need mods.
One mod I use for DAO actual undoes parts of two of the patches. The devs patched the game to change how some of the spells worked, and I didn't like the changes, so I changed them back. This is a case where the devs clearly think they're making the game better, but I thought they were making it worse.
In cases like that there is a game feedback on forums. If developers do something and community don't like it then it'll be voiced on the forums.
And I think it was quite obvious that this type of conversation isn't what people like. One of the reasons that we had those icons displayed in DAI that will hint what kind of response you will get. Yet BW keeps pushing for the same thing over and over again and other developers start to use similar solutions as well.
In the end we want a great story and a good game play, both sides should meet somewhere in the middle...
In cases like that there is a game feedback on forums. If developers do something and community don't like it then it'll be voiced on the forums.
And I think it was quite obvious that this type of conversation isn't what people like. One of the reasons that we had those icons displayed in DAI that will hint what kind of response you will get. Yet BW keeps pushing for the same thing over and over again and other developers start to use similar solutions as well.
In the end we want a great story and a good game play, both sides should meet somewhere in the middle...
Compromise makes everyone equally unhappy.
Complaining on the forum doesn't fix the game. Mods do.
But just knowing the full dialog wasn't enough because then people on the forum requested to have sarcastic et al placed by the sentence so they would know if the sentence is sarcastic or not.
I'd rather get to decide the intent myself, line by line.
Like I could in DAO.
My desire for fulltext has become all the more pronounced since I recently started playing SWTOR again. The main class quest tends to do alright, but with the rest of the general quests almost every conversation, at least once, makes me wince when my character proceeds to say something I'd have never selected and doesn't match up to my interpretation of the paraphrase.
DAI does a much better a job with paraphrases thankfully, but I still wish I could chose from the actual dialogue options instead of guessing what I think the paraphrase will translate to and hoping I'm right.
Full text, preferably, so that I can predict what reactions might be and actually try to roleplay my own character. Also, please take out Paragon/Renegade and any "invisible" good/bad moral system, or integrate it into crossroad decisions in games instead (for reference, like Witcher 2 did it) I don't want to have to take into account an invisible stat when I'm also trying to maximize my fun by "getting everything" in the game dialogue-wise
Most importantly, don't bring out any aliens out of the freezer again please. It's a deus ex machina that is tiring and feels lazy.
I have never once been caught off guard or confused by the dialouge wheel. In any Bioware game.
In fact , the only time I didn't understand a line was in DAO...when the lines were typed in full. A line I thought was offensive and mean was supposed to be funny (despite being spelled out for me). Turned out, it even illicted a funny reponse and further banter from the person I spoke it to. Go figure...
So my question is...can folks give an example (or examples) of a situation in the ME game when not understaniding the dialouge wheel was problematic? I am not being a jerk here...I am truly curious. Waht are some examples of the current wheel system being "bad"?
I have seen this thread so many times in the forums, so I am just curious.
In a game where player choice and consequence are emphasised so heavily, it is kind of irritating when something that I should have full control over (like the words that come out of my mouth), is taken partially out of my control. It's frustrating when sometimes I've had to go back to an older save because the option I picked didn't accurately represent the context in which it would be said, and resulted in an undesirable outcome. I maintain how the second character responds should always remain a mystery - because sometimes conversations don't always go as we had planned them in our heads. But we should never be caught off guard by our own words.
Now I think the full dialogue options are bit much as it'd probably make the display a bit of a mess, but inflections written in italics could go a long way.
One other thing I have liked is the colour coding of the charisma checks in Fallout 4. Perhaps we could achieve a similar thing with the paragon/renegade scale to with boldness/shade of colour to display how heavily a dialogue option leans either way.
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