41 réponses à ce sujet

[OldTimeRadio]

@Grani - Currently?  The other place where you'll still find it is on the Beamdog forums- though it's slowly getting better.

 

@Asymmetric - Re: Your comment about "But I have no idea how they could go about it."  You're totally right about the tiles, for instance.  Like, even if Beamdog had a NWN:EE on their plate there's the matter of updated character and monster models and the tilesets.  I spend time specifically thinking about how one would go about overhauling the game with as little work as possible and after a really long time kicking it around, I at least came up with an approach for tilesets.  

 

The actual number of unique geometry elements in a tileset is usually really low.  I don't know how this would work in Blender, but in Max what you can do is run a script to identify all unique geometry in a scene and then turn them into instances.  So, if you had all the tiles in a tileset completely loaded up, you'd run that script (there are a lot of them floating around) and, for instance, all the barrels in the tileset (nomatter how they were oriented) would become one instanced object.  Then you just replace any one of the instanced objects and all of them in the scene change.  So you could up-detail a whole tileset pretty quickly using that method.  Obviously, there would be lots of straggler unique geometries, but I think they'd be vastly outweighed by the same old objects that the Bioware modelers cut and pasted across tiles.  I had the idea a few months ago but I had enough problems loading up the whole tilesets that I just put it on the back burner.  I would love to see somebody play around with this idea, though.  I did a bunch of little tests and it seemed like a "viable" option.

[WebShaman]

I'd give anything for a NWN:EE.

 

That said, I would also give anything for a ToEE:EE with a working toolset!

 

That just gets me drooling!!!

 

Well, off to play more Fallout 4.  Loving that ingame building!

[Shadooow]

And were those Enhanced Editions really successful? With the ammount of modding BG2 EE was never a consideration for me and lot of other ppls had same observations, in the end BG2:EE brought even more issues than there was in a first place. That was early release or prerelease when I heard about it the last time, but still there seems to be almost no point of this for a oldtimers who still like to play that game, who bought it years ago already and who still sometimes play it as they can get basically the same with few mods and much more.

 

In case of NWN there would be probably even less desire than in BG2 as we do have NWNX and NWNCX. I doubt that NWN:EE would brought anything even comparable of the posibilities we have right now. All we can hope for is maybe an improved graphic but this graphic will still be too oldschool for those who never tried NWN because of graphic and its age. Re-Release won't change it imo.

 

Idk how many new players get to BGII with EE but even if that was successfull, BGII is still rather linear-play-finish-leave game. Multiplayer is rather non existant. I wouldn't be so optimistic about significal player base increase that many dream for. Most players will probably play NWN just like BG2 - they will play the OC finish and leave.

 

Btw, do peoples really play BG2 on smartphones and tablets? lol

[henesua]

people do play on tablets.

 

As far as concerns about NWN EE go. As long as the people working on it consulted with the community the project could work. And they would be stupid not to given how much knowledge we have.

[Lilura]

 

In case of NWN there would be probably even less desire than in BG2 as we do have NWNX and NWNCX. I doubt that NWN:EE would brought anything even comparable of the posibilities we have right now.

 

They would probably attempt to apply what the community has already achieved. For their Infinity Engine EEs they tapped into lots of stuff already done by the community: tools like Near Infinity and Weidu; mods like Tutu, fixpacks, big BIFF, tweakpacks, Sword Coast Stratagems etc. (those wisened to cynicism have other words for "tapped"). Beamdog also hired a few modders (e.g, aVENGER) and consult regularly with the SCS author (DavidW). I suspect their EEs were a success because they have a decent following and are now making an expansion for BG1 called Siege of Dragonspear, with aVENGER coding AI. They have also hired Gaider, not exactly a low-baller. This points to money in the bank and getting srs. Regardless of my thoughts on their content (thus far, I think it's subpar), I can't deny that more people are playing these games since they made the EEs and I think the tablet crowd has been a bonus for them. The forums are aflow with discussion about a game originally released 18 years ago.. people are talking about the stories, the characters, the lore, the tactics and the mods all over again - NWN could avail of that.

Yes, NWN has possibilities but its player base is diluted over multiple communities and the mainstream is largely ignorant of its prime virtues (Aurora toolset, community-made content). GoG is not doing it for NWN; last I checked the seven most recent topics were about technical issues and there is almost no discussion about CONTENT (i.e, playing the game, modding it, enjoying it). GoG has no community vibe to it: they go there to learn how to double-click the installer, then leave. The Codex and RPGWatch are resistant (they are in-depth news sites primarily concerned with spruiking commercial content), reddit is slow, this forum and the Vault are both slow (about playing the game) and GameFAQs has been dead and buried for a decade. The mainstream only know the official content and maybe a few famous mods, parroting them here and there on the forums as if that's all there is. They don't delve deeper and have not heard of Project Q, your patch, NWNX and NWNCX. They are also not prepared to learn how to beautify a module themselves using overrides and patch haks; and I can't blame them: it isn't like NWN and its new vault are EZ going for total newbies (though every effort that has been made to accommodate new players is commendable, as it's greatly needed). All this is just what I have observed over the last couple of years, btw.

Anyway, how do you propose to increase the player base without an EE.. the NWN community is ever-dwindling - or is it just stagnant in number? I mean, that's been happening for quite a while and it's no biggie for the "old-timers" who will stick with it through thick and thin; but I would like to see an influx of new blood in the mix and I don't see that happening all that much without something like NWN:EE.

[Shadooow]

Where you get this info about bg2:EE? I was keeping an eye on bg2:EE from start since I was engaged in bg2 modding scene not as a developer but a reviewer/user.

 

I know BG2EE get numerous patches which might adress some of the issues and add new functionalities but in the time I was following it there were none. I cant find anything about it now too.

 

IIRC Weidu and most mods has been rewrote to be compatible with bg2EE but I am not aware of any official support for modding. Last posts from czech BG2 forum about EE are from 2015 and they are suggesting that players (who played bg2 before) are still hardly adjusting to several missing features/changes and they don't like it. Still seems that oldtimers are playing vanilla+mods rather than EE...

 

The same might happen here - graphical improvements might very likely lead to change in camera control etc. and as a player I would really dislike it if it would behave as NWN2 for example.

 

Anyway, you are right, without potential NWN:EE there is probably nothing else to fix the player base stagnation. I am just saying that I wouldn't be overly optimistic it will change anything.

[Gruftlord]

The biggest fear would be that any NWN:EE would be updated with modern 3d graphical features. i'm not sure anyone would want to risk investing in a NWN:EE while changing so little graphically so it does not break any custom content. I can see the benefit from adding multi core support, steam cloud integreation, gamespy replacement and the like. but i fear it would be bundled with bump mapping and physically based rendering.

Looking at some old reviews, even back then the squareness of the tile based areas was criticized by most reviewers, so i don't know how much this could still be a seller today. as others have noted, today, NWNs legacy in the public eye is much less known than names such as Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale, so a stronger rework would probably be required to sell it to newcomers. You may argue that thought, but you would have to agree, how the suits that make the decisions would very much think like that. Then there's the whole mess with the license. I think since there currently is a license holder for a game called "Neverwinter", that offers online play, they may have a line in that contracts that allows them exclusive rights for game development with that name and online functionality. Especially if the competition would offer unlimited online worlds for free...

Some other company tried to dodge that trouble by calling their game "swordcoast legends" and adding a monetization scheme to make money out of the whole persistent world idea. We know how that went...

I see so many trouble and financial risks with a NWN:EE, that i wouldn't want to risk any money on it.

In more positive note: i'm pondering the idea of writing a quick and dirty guide to get NWN rolling in 2016, how the best set it up, what are the most up to date guides, how to get online and meet people. nothing fancy, but something more to the point than the (sometimes a bit outdated) specific guides available elsewhere. let's see how bored i am on saturday...

[Lilura]

Where you get this info about bg2:EE?

 

I've spoken with aVENGER and the Infinity Engine is my forte so it's EZ to see what they've taken from the modders. I'm not a fan of changing the IE RPGs at all and it's true old timers just stick with vanilla and prefer to mod it themselves, but this isn't about the veterans: it's about getting new players. Mods are being made compatible with EE and veterans can reverse many of the changes they don't like.

 

I think the strategy cam of NWN2 would work fine in NWN1; it's just the kludgy Electron engine that makes it feel "off". Anyway, most of the cam issues were fixed with patches and NWN2 has long since had the most versatile cam of any RPG. That said, I doubt Beamdog would mess with the Aurora cam.

[Gruftlord]

how's that for starters:
http://forum.bioware...nfo/?p=20153141

it's really quick and dirty, but it should get things started. for anything more there is actually Neverwinterinfo think.

[OldTimeRadio]

The biggest fear would be that any NWN:EE would be updated with modern 3d graphical features. i'm not sure anyone would want to risk investing in a NWN:EE while changing so little graphically so it does not break any custom content. I can see the benefit from adding multi core support, steam cloud integreation, gamespy replacement and the like. but i fear it would be bundled with bump mapping and physically based rendering.

I also used worry that an enhanced edition might potentially cause problems for existing custom content but, based on what I know now, I can practically guarantee it would be impossible for a situation like that to come to pass.  So, the scenario of an EE "breaking" existing custom content isn't even an issue.

 

The parts of the game that a (basic) graphics engine update would touch would have very little to do with how custom content is made but a lot to do with how it's expressed, visually.  So, for instance, in a hypothetical "typical" NWN:EE, it's very likely that all the creature and tile models would be exactly the same as they are in the NWN:Diamond that people buy off GOG.com nowdays.  There might be _additional_ files (like bump maps or additional texture information) that would cause enhanced functionality to "kick in", but it would definitely not be a big change across the board.  

 

NWN already has functions inside of it to do bump mapping and rudimentary physically based rendering but, for the most part, these commands appear to have either been disabled in the renderer or do something but do it inefficiently.  As far as rudimentary PBR goes, some examples are the specular and shininess model settings and TXI commands like specularcolor, isspecularbumpmap and isdiffusebumpmap.  Even if these things were enabled, they're still pretty primitive.  We're talking specular stuff on a per-mesh level as opposed to having a specular map, but it's still stuff that's already in NWN.

[Gruftlord]

nobody is going to make an EE version with an updated engine that adds stuff like modern PBR, and then doesn't update the models to make use of this. so yes, and updated engine will mean it is going to break custom content. it will simply be left behind and not be supported any more by the modern engine. I don't see how anyone would want to try to sell an EE with the old-school models, sorry.

[OldTimeRadio]

I'm not sure why you think that an NWN:EE couldn't be backwards compatible.  Existing models use one texture per mesh in a model.  Two if you have an environment map or a bump map.  An enhanced NWN would have support for more maps than that.  Additional maps could even be used to  define materials for PBR.  Those meshes with additional maps would be displayed with additional effects and those which still had the one texture would be displayed the same as they always have, same as in NWShader.  If they wanted to, they could certainly muck with the models but normal maps are going to be an easier way of adding detail and at a lot less expense.  

 

I suppose there is always the possibility that Beamdog could pick some method of enhancing the game which would slash and burn everything to the ground...but I don't find that likely or plausible.

[CoM Solaufein]

The only thing that would get me to play a NWN EE is that they put it on a modern gaming engine. Those graphics, especially the character graphics are fugly as hell.

[ShadowM]

The only thing that would get me to play a NWN EE is that they put it on a modern gaming engine. Those graphics, especially the character graphics are fugly as hell.

Holy cow no, we not going from nwn to witcher 3 here. We more like going from nwn1 to divinity original sin 1 or 2 graphics(or some better example). We do not need the latest graphic engine to do that. We have to have a balance between graphic that still can handle PW set up of 62 people etc.. As for breaking current custom content, the question not will it, but by how much and will we get free ware support. Like plugins for blender or other free modeling/animation/ visual effects tools. If we get support to update the content then the community will get it done. Like you, but opposite I would not buy a nwn:EE if it ran on a modern graphics engine that took away all the flexibility we have with the current one.

[henesua]

No need to get riled up about it. People who can't tell the difference between art quality and render engine are not worth paying any attention to on this subject.

[kamal_]

They didn't use a new engine for BG:EE. They didn't use a new engine for BG2:EE. They won't use a new engine for a hypothetical NWN:EE. The EE's work well for them because they don't have to spend time and money re-creating, re-implementing and re-testing pretty much everything in a new engine.

[Lilura]

I don't want a new engine but it would be nice to make it more friendly on current gen OS/hardware.