60 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

It is a common mistake to feel like the future of the Grey Wardens as a whole is at stake here, but I just don't see it.

Only the Orlesian Wardens have suffered losses during the events of Inquisition. The Order itself still is doing fine in the rest of Thedas. The situation isn't quite so dire that their survival depends on this.

[Illegitimus]

Sure there's a reason.  Hawke doesn't have anything interesting to do if they come back from the void.  

[Hazegurl]

It just depends on whether or not you like Hawke or the Warden ally better.  But yeah, you're right, the fate of the entire order isn't at stake. Just the Wardens in Orlais. If Carver is a warden it's mentioned that he is being watched by Aveline I think so Cory's influence seems to be reach a bit but overall, it's only the Wardens in Orlais who are suffering the most.  Personally, I'm more interested in what happened at Weisshaupt if Hawke goes there.   That sounded way more interesting than the Cory garbage.  If I was given the option to ditch the IQ to play as Hawke and head to the Warden fortress I would have. 

[BloodKaiden]

At this point in Thedas Grey Wardens don't even interest me anymore, at least those in Ferelden and Orlais. The only ones I care about are Loghain, Anders, and Carver. But that's more for their character arcs than GW status.

[berelinde]

I'd consider saving Alistair for personal reasons, and I'd consider saving Loghain because if the man survived thus far, he's won the right to keep living, but even then, it would depend on my Hawke. Logically, it makes sense to spare the Warden. The Order needs the kind of leader who would defy a bad order because it's bad.  But I still spare my favorite Hawke time and again because he's mine.

[thats1evildude]

Hawke unleashed Corypheus. Ignorance of the law is not a defence! The sentence is DEATH!

[Andraste_Reborn]

Which one I save depends on what makes the more interesting and appropriate story in any given world state. For example, there is no way my 'canon' Hawke would have let anyone else fight the demon, especially not the guy that saved her beloved sister. By contrast, my blood mage Hawke really just wanted to get back home to Merrill. Her offer to sacrifice herself was about as sincere as her condemnation of blood magic.

 

While Alistair and Loghain are more fleshed-out characers than Stroud, Hawke may have a better in-game reason to save him, and from the Inquistior's point of view it may not make any difference who the Warden is. I've saved Stroud just as often as Alistair so far. (Haven't played through either of my 'Loghain lives' world states. Planning to kill him in one and keep him in the other.)

[paramitch]

I saved Alistair. I liked Hawke, but when it came down to it, I just couldn't kill my Warden's true love off like that (it made it worse somehow that she wasn't even present).

 

But I still felt bad for poor Hawke. And I may have sniffled a bit when my Inquisitor hugged Varric.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Because you want to be horribly cruel to Varric? I've never done it myself, but I know he gets pretty upset if you leave Hawke in the Fade. It would be interesting to see how the scene plays out if Varric is there and Hawke stays behind.

[Ghost Gal]

Saving the Grey Warden ally might have nothing to do with helping the order.

Some people save the Grey Warden ally because they like that character better than Hawke.

[congokong]

I don't believe it's ever said that the fate of the Wardens as a whole is at stake if they lack an Orlaisian warden of senior rank.

 

As for who to sacrifice, for me it's personal preference since neither would presumably have that much sway over the other tactics-wise. I happened to sacrifice my canon Hawke to save Stroud (yes, some people actually do this). Why? Purely to make a better story. Stroud dying has no emotional impact as he's a character we barely knew. The whole sacrifice thing and Varric's reminiscing is much more nerfed. Hawke dying however makes much more of a difference; especially considering she was the last of the Hawke line with Bethany/Carver dead.

 

And frankly, killing Hawke will prevent Bioware from committing further character assassination of my ex-pc; having already turned her into an anti-blood mage (when she was a blood mage) who plays chaperone to the Grey Wardens returning to Weishaupt instead of actually helping fight Corypheus. I avoided the latter at least by killing her off.

[Illegitimus]

Saving the Grey Warden ally might have nothing to do with helping the order.

Some people save the Grey Warden ally because they like that character better than Hawke.

 

Or because they just don't want to hand off the heroic sacrifice to some nobody.  

[sim-ran]

I think the better question is "is there any reason to save Hawke". If you want to help the Wardens rather than exile them, then Stroud/Loghain/Alistair have an obvious importance that they spell out for you in the deciding scene. What use will Hawke serve if saved?

I realise that he ends up leading the Wardens somehow, but they don't suggest that will happen at the time and I hate the outcome as much as the Vivienne Divine - it just makes no sense that that would happen.

But let's be honest, most people probably save or leave Hawke based on whether they loved or hated him/DA2.

[Hazegurl]

Hawke does not end up leading the Wardens. He travels with them to the fortress if they were banished or goes alone if you keep them.  He's there to rely info about what happened in Orlais.  But since Hawke is a walking magnet of trouble, some shyt ended up going down while he was there.

[Dabrikishaw]

I leave Hawke in the Fade for Alistair or Stroud everytime, because I don't like Hawke. Loghain has never survived The Landsmeet in any save I play.

[Andromelek]

PCs deserve a happy ending too, if Alistair/Loghain still screwing around you likely already sacrificed a PC for them, on characters' perspectives only Stroud can possibly have done anything for Hawke, he is also the only logic choice to be made Warden Commander; Loghain is too old and Alistair is too stupid.

[Dabrikishaw]

 

PCs deserve a happy ending too, if Alistair/Loghain still screwing around you likely already sacrificed a PC for them, on characters' perspectives only Stroud can possibly have done anything for Hawke, he is also the only logic choice to be made Warden Commander; Loghain is too old and Alistair is too stupid.

 

 

That's much better than what you posted last time. It's fine to dislike fictional characters, but you should never make sweeping negative generalizations of the real players that like them.

 

Now as for the rest of your post:

 

The Warden, Alistair, and Loghain can all survive Origins if you know what to do. The Dark Ritual will spare The Warden every-time. Alistair can be made King while making Loghain a Warden, or Al can become a wandering drunk after Loghain is made a Warden. Finally, you can just have one die at the Landsmeet then do the Dark Ritual still. Saying The Warden needs to lose out on a happy ending in order to have Alistair or Loghain alive in Inquisition is frankly untrue.

[Andromelek]

That's much better than what you posted last time. It's fine to dislike fictional characters, but you should never make sweeping negative generalizations of the real players that like them.
 
Now as for the rest of your post:
 
The Warden, Alistair, and Loghain can all survive Origins if you know what to do. The Dark Ritual will spare The Warden every-time. Alistair can be made King while making Loghain a Warden, or Al can become a wandering drunk after Loghain is made a Warden. Finally, you can just have one die at the Landsmeet then do the Dark Ritual still. Saying The Warden needs to lose out on a happy ending in order to have Alistair or Loghain alive in Inquisition is frankly untrue.

Wait wait, I did use language but that was against the characters, I never called for names any player.

Also I said "likely" sacrificed HoF for them. I know about Dark Ritual, but so far as I've seen here is an unpopular choice for hard-canons, also I rather meant Hawke when I spoke of happy ending; HoF (even if survives) is seemingly screwed with the calling and Inky has an arm chopped off , Hawke is the only one who got a "happy closure" after Trespasser while there is no word of the Warden ally.

[nightscrawl]

As a disclaimer, I've never played with Alistair or Loghain as the GW companion, so I don't know what they say in the deciding moment.

 

It's an RP choice and the reasons will differ from person to person, from Inquisitor to Inquisitor. My Inquisitor likes the idea of allowing Stroud to (partially) make up for the Wardens' actions by sacrificing himself, with the additional knowledge that Varric would be devastated by Hawke's loss influencing the decision. When he steps out of the rift he does lambaste the Wardens for their blind idiocy.

 

In the moment I think they each give good arguments for themselves. Hawke says they are the one who started this by releasing Corypheus and should be the one, while arguing that Stroud needs to be around to help the Wardens rebuild. Stroud says that the Wardens are responsible for this incident, so he should be the one to make the sacrifice. I like both of these and think that the player could certainly use either, or come up with their own personal character-driven reasons for the choice.

[KCMeredith]

I saved Loghain because it made more sense to me that he'd lead the wardens to Weisshaupt. 

 

I also like the old man a lot more, but those are the only two reasons I can think of

[Dabrikishaw]

Wait wait, I did use language but that was against the characters, I never called for names any player.

Also I said "likely" sacrificed HoF for them. I know about Dark Ritual, but so far as I've seen here is an unpopular choice for hard-canons, also I rather meant Hawke when I spoke of happy ending; HoF (even if survives) is seemingly screwed with the calling and Inky has an arm chopped off , Hawke is the only one who got a "happy closure" after Trespasser while there is no word of the Warden ally.

That's good to know, but still try to avoid insults of that nature in the future.

 

And I don't agree with sparring Hawke because of the idea that Player Characters deserve happy endings, but if that's the reason you want to use more power to you.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

For me, Hawke always leaves, she deserves a life after all that s**** that happened. Alistair, canonically, is King of Ferelden but I still leave him behind anyway. Loghain / Stroud, no qualms there. The fault began with the wardens anyway, they should have reached out when they found they could not deal with Cory instead of trying to solve the problem by themselves. When they start thinking all of them would be decimated by the 'calling', still, they kept quiet. When it comes to the fate of Thedas, all the more they shouldn't keep their troubles to themselves. At least they learned their lesson after Cory died by being more open to the people.

[Andromelek]

That's good to know, but still try to avoid insults of that nature in the future.

And I don't agree with sparring Hawke because of the idea that Player Characters deserve happy endings, but if that's the reason you want to use more power to you.

Not really, my hard point was that I'd only ponderate if sacrifice Hawke for Stroud, the other two, as I said above, I can't see many uses for them as Commanders.

[Yaroub]

just leave Mr oblivious behind, Got fooled by Anders, played by Tallis,deceived by Petrice,helped the qunari,freed Cory.

 

A total walking disaster. I feel obligated to end Hawke pitiful life.

[GoldenGail3]

For me, Hawke always leaves, she deserves a life after all that s**** that happened. Alistair, canonically, is King of Ferelden but I still leave him behind anyway. Loghain / Stroud, no qualms there. The fault began with the wardens anyway, they should have reached out when they found they could not deal with Cory instead of trying to solve the problem by themselves. When they start thinking all of them would be decimated by the 'calling', still, they kept quiet. When it comes to the fate of Thedas, all the more they shouldn't keep their troubles to themselves. At least they learned their lesson after Cory died by being more open to the people.

For me, my Canon Hake lives. But any other Hawke is killed by myself. And btw, if they became more open to people.... Not alot of people are gonna want to join them.... (They drink Darkspawn blood that can kill you, for heaven's sake!) They should, however tell the Warden Recruits what their getting into once they officially join.