34 réponses à ce sujet

[Mocker22]

Hey guys,

 

So I've really been missing the power of mages from the previous DA games, especially DA1. It feels to me like mages were "dumbed down" a ton since the beginning. Really miss the spell combos and Especially Blood Mage....seriously how did they take Blood mage out of DA3.

 

I'm hoping to find some suggestions for powerful mage builds(not support specs pls). Mainly what spells and/or combinations of spells work really well for people. KE does seem really cool, but I'm looking more towards a pure caster type of build.

 

Thanks for the thoughts,

 

Mocker

[Lulupab]

Pure caster? Definitely Rift Mage. You will become an AoE god with infinite mana and great crowd control.

 

This website has good builds:

 

http://dragoninquisi...om/mage-builds/

 

Scroll down to "AOE Rift Mage Build".

[ottffsse]

forget rift mage, this is the highest dps you can get out of a da3 mage:

 

 

but it is item dependent (enhanced or superior inferno pact belt and fade touched imperial vestment cotton to apply walking bomb for 100% weapon damage, gained through random drops from venetori gladiators or through cheat engine on pc). 

 

but this casting trick is also good on necro though not quite as impressive as those 25K+ firemine + 45k walking bomb afterdot) basically it's lyrium potion to max mana to stack static cage, walking bomb cast and in the time walking bomb is flying to the target release 2 or 3 energy barrages in quick succession.

like this, 80 second highland raveger kill with necro:

 

but even with this use of best items and casting tricks rogues still out-dps a mage when it comes to single target. aoe damage though is quite spectacular on that pyromancer though. 

 

and necromancer is probably the closest to what a blood mage is in da3. rift = force mage sort of. 

[Dominator3864]

i dont understand how that guy is hitting for those numbers. on my first playthrough i had a higher dps staff, my crit chance was over 50, and my crit dmg was over 100. granted this was on a KE, but i think the most i have ever hit for was like 12 k with full barrier with a fire mine. obviously if they have a guard or barrier the numbers were astronomical at times, but that is not the case in this video. is it just a pyro thing?

[ottffsse]

i dont understand how that guy is hitting for those numbers. on my first playthrough i had a higher dps staff, my crit chance was over 50, and my crit dmg was over 100. granted this was on a KE, but i think the most i have ever hit for was like 12 k with full barrier with a fire mine. obviously if they have a guard or barrier the numbers were astronomical at times, but that is not the case in this video. is it just a pyro thing?

 

elemental pact belts double damage of the element type and more at least. other than that it works as follows. fire mine with inferno pact belt does say as an example 20K damage on a crit (realistic numbers with good gear and enhanced inferno pact belt). now manual detonation of walking bomb can crit as well since the latest patches. even if the walking bomb masterwork on hit procs from firemine I can still manually detonate it as a necromancer, even the masterwork applied effect not my usual ability cast. since my crit damage was around 100% that second crit from the walking bomb detonation doubles the original firemine damage +/- random 10%, so 20K becomes near or above 40K.  AND it is virulent since the virulent upgrade on the necro tree applies to the masterwork effect if used on necromancer so it can spread if you kill the target. other than that necro has a passive power of the dead which further increases damage by 20% for 10s everytime you kill something.  

[Dominator3864]

elemental pact belts double damage of the element type and more at least.

is that a dlc belt? im on 360, so i cant get into the dlc just yet. i can't believe that belt literally doubles elemental dmg. im incredibly new to the game. thought i had gotten all the gear in my first playthrough, but apparently not. i like the KE way too much to go pyro or necro. although that dragon kill is just plain nuts

[ottffsse]

is that a dlc belt? im on 360, so i cant get into the dlc just yet. i can't believe that belt literally doubles elemental dmg. im incredibly new to the game. thought i had gotten all the gear in my first playthrough, but apparently not. i like the KE way too much to go pyro or necro. although that dragon kill is just plain nuts

yeah it is one of those trespasser items which sort of rebalances the game. here are three types of belts: inferno, storm, and winter each for their respective element. white and blue versions are gained as trial rewards, the purple superior versions come in trespasser only. they have a draw back: common version of the belt increase elemental damage output by 25% but decrease total hp by 33%, blue enhanced versions like I used in the dragon kill video add at least 50% maybe more like 75% damage, but also half your health pool. superior purple versions double or add up to 125% damage on top! but reduce your health to a quarter of what it was so if you have say 800 HP with a superior purple belt on you have 200 HP total. 

[Aeratus]

forget rift mage, this is the highest dps you can get out of a da3 mage:

 

....

 

Necro has a high single burst. But for sustained AOE dps, I think rift mage is higher. 

 

The necro still has the problem of spell cooldown or needing to recharge mana. On the other hand, rift mage can spam immolate 10 times in a row using the no-cooldown upgrade. 

 

Overall, damage on a mage is still low compared to many rogue builds. I got Sera to kill the highland ravager solo in 10 seconds using throwing blades as the only damage skill.

[sjsharp2011]

I wouldn't say they were underpowered tbh I think I'd say they'er more underpowered in Origins than they are in DA2 or Inquisuiition. Because tbh I find it much easier in Inquisityion to play as a mage than I do anything else. In fact I'd asy in DA2 I'd say all 3 classes were treated equally. Haven't played warrior yet in DAI but based on the 1 rogue I've done I'd say they're pretty equal as well. I would suggest playing as a Knight Enchanter and seeing how underpowered you think you are then as I was very impressed with the damage I was able to put out with the Spirit Blade. The only time I was seriously challenged was in the DLC's in the main game people couldn't touch me. Even the dragons struggled to deal with me and I find them some of the toughest enemies to deal with in this game usually.

[ottffsse]

Only in terms of a single burst. For overall sustained dps, I think rift mage is higher in dps. 

 

The necro still has the problem of spell cooldown or needing to recharge mana. On the other hand, rift mage can spam immolate 10 times in a row using the no-cooldown upgrade. 

i do not think so. immolate is what? 300% weapon damage? ok x 10 = 3000% 3m aoe (while casting immolate over and over and over again...so take that time into account. 

 

the mechanics I showed in the two vids: 

 

vid 1 walking bomb firemine: 1 flame array (only 30 mana) = 3x 1600% weapon damage aoe already and if it procs walking bomb another 1600% on top of that + potential to crit AGAIN and increase the 1600% by your crit modifier so say 100% crit damage bonus would mean 3200% spirit damage explosion from wb in a 5m radius WITH virulent property if you are a necromancer, that"s how I got that 43K spirit damage hit on the revenant, so if I killed an enemy with that it would spread to enemies nearby in a 5m radius most likely just killing everything outright in one stroke. Total cost = 30 mana. Besides things should most likely die at this point giving you back mana from death siphon. 

 

vid two. lyrium potion or great bear sigil makes mana worries absolete for initial burst. so I have static cage + walking bomb + 3x energy barrage which is my main attack sequence - it can be replaced with static cage, walking bomb, energy barrage, detonate walking bomb, recast walking bomb (free when done quickly this way). I get a grand total in 10s of walking bomb 900%+ 3x 1200% from energy barrages (with upgrade) + static cage damage from the energy barrages so another 3x 600% (half of eb as static cage does 50% damage for every hit). That's 6300% weapon damage in about 10s and that"s what you see of shaving off 40% of the highland ravagers health in the opening 15s. of course against mobs I would use the 500% walking bomb upgrade and not the 900% but the 500% is aoe and has a chance to spread via virulent Total cost: 65 mana static cage, 3x 50 mana energy barrage 215 mana. (walking bomb 65 mana becomes again free because there is nothing in the mana pool to deduce since the energy barrages ate up all your mana but you have already cast walking bomb before its mana cost is calculated since it only subtracts your mana when it hits the target and not when you cast it unlike energy barrage, and a lot of other abilities, that"s how this works). And anyways, ever since the energizing step upgrade to fade step which gives you back mana when you fade step through enemies you never have a problem with mana, really. And after doing this sequence you still have fire mine in your arsenal which you can cast while the other offensive abilities are on cooldown.

 

Rift mage is the better battlefield crowd controller though because of constant knockdown and pulls just like the da2 force mage (stonefist + veilstrike + pull of the abyss) but it won't have the absolute potential dps output of an optimized necromancer. 

[Aeratus]

Fire mine has a 24 second base cooldown, and walking bomb has a 20 second base cooldown. So if more enemies come in the screen, those skills won't be up after the first setup. On the other hand, Rift mage can perform continuous damage output without any downtime. Immolate is also a ranged attack, whereas fire array requires particular positioning. Rift mage can also mix in the damage-version of Pull of the Abyss and stonefist, whose cooldown is lowered by each casting of immolate. So there are practical considerations involved. 

 

For single-target battles against enemies not affected by weaken, obviously rift mage has no advantages there. 

[Mocker22]

Some good ideas there.....I do prefer having Friendly fire on but maybe I should give up on that dream if I want to have a fun mage playthrough?

[ottffsse]

Some good ideas there.....I do prefer having Friendly fire on but maybe I should give up on that dream if I want to have a fun mage playthrough?

You can solo with ff on. But your companions would get burned by firemine immolate wb and or pull of the abyss basically all the good mage spells are aoe and will effect companions too.

[Aeratus]

You can solo with ff on. But your companions would get burned by firemine immolate wb and or pull of the abyss basically all the good mage spells are aoe and will effect companions too.

 

That's a valid point too. Mage AOE are bad with FF. 

 

This thread is about mage being underpowered, and here's a video I found when browsing youtube, to show why rogue can be much more powerful than mage. Both the trash mobs and boss were soloed easily.

 

[PapaCharlie9]

Up until Trespasser I would have agreed that DAI didn't have the same super-powered mage tactics that DAO had, but now everything is OP in multiple different ways, so it's kind of a moot point.

Without even trying to min/max the hell out of peak damage, all of my characters cut a swath through NM (no Trials) without much effort. You don't need high 5 digit damage numbers to make short work of any encounter -- a full party routinely hitting with mid 3 digits is more than enough for most battles.

[Dabrikishaw]

I'm continuously impressed by the buffs to Necromancer. Walking Bomb masterworks being manually detonatable by a Necromancer is incredible.

[sjsharp2011]

Up until Trespasser I would have agreed that DAI didn't have the same super-powered mage tactics that DAO had, but now everything is OP in multiple different ways, so it's kind of a moot point.

Without even trying to min/max the hell out of peak damage, all of my characters cut a swath through NM (no Trials) without much effort. You don't need high 5 digit damage numbers to make short work of any encounter -- a full party routinely hitting with mid 3 digits is more than enough for most battles.

 

 

Agreed and I fight with a squad at my side anyway (as I do in all Bioware's games really) so I don't feel the need to use  a lot of these insane abilities as other than when I played a KE with Spirit Blade in my last playthrough I've not needed to. Plus with the Kitty's collar amulet on my quizzy I'm finding my rift mage proving pretty powerful as well. I think it mostly depends on your build and what equipment you choose to use. You need to pick ones that suit your character and the way your comfortable with playing. But I think that's the case with any class and character your playing it dosen't just apply to mages

[wicked cool]

Where can u get a fire belt

[sjsharp2011]

Where can u get a fire belt

 

 

Well there are 2 ways 

 

1. Buy one from a shop/mrechant

2. Farm for it. as in look for it amon gany loot that gets dropped by enemies or found in chests/boxes

[Aeratus]

The fire belt can only be obtained by trial rewards

 

http://dragonage.wik...he_Inferno_Pact

http://dragonage.wik...he_Inferno_Pact

 

The superb version is looted during the trespasser quest. 

[Salaya]

Despite what you read here, yes: mages are very underpowered compared to Origins and DA2. Only by bypassing and leveling/farming items you will be able to become something similar to a glass cannon in Inquisition. 

 

Unfortunatelly, mages have been demoted to crowd control freaks, not damaging fragile PCs. Since spells are now dependant on  weapon DPS and almost every talent is oriented to incapacite more than damage, some lateral thinking is needed to transform into a pure damaging mage. A pity.

[PapaCharlie9]

Despite what you read here, yes: mages are very underpowered compared to Origins and DA2. Only by bypassing and leveling/farming items you will be able to become something similar to a glass cannon in Inquisition. 
 
Unfortunatelly, mages have been demoted to crowd control freaks, not damaging fragile PCs. Since spells are now dependant on  weapon DPS and almost every talent is oriented to incapacite more than damage, some lateral thinking is needed to transform into a pure damaging mage. A pity.

Yeah, I mostly agree. There are some good damage abilities that aren't crowd control, Stonefist comes to mind, but as you say, they are scaled to base weapon damage, which, while not an operational limit, is a limit on pure awesomeness. Rogues have taken the place of mages as glass cannons.

For a while there, KE were pretty awesome (read, broken), but more because their were virtually invulnerable than because they could deal massive damage with a couple of spells, like an average AW/BM in DAO.

What did you mean by "bypassing" when you said "by bypassing and leveling/farming items"? Did you mean the Golden Nug? Bypassing the grind?

[Salaya]

Yeah, I mostly agree. There are some good damage abilities that aren't crowd control, Stonefist comes to mind, but as you say, they are scaled to base weapon damage, which, while not an operational limit, is a limit on pure awesomeness. Rogues have taken the place of mages as glass cannons.

For a while there, KE were pretty awesome (read, broken), but more because their were virtually invulnerable than because they could deal massive damage with a couple of spells, like an average AW/BM in DAO.

What did you mean by "bypassing" when you said "by bypassing and leveling/farming items"? Did you mean the Golden Nug? Bypassing the grind?

 

lol yeah, sorry, my bad english tends to get in the way. Anyway, by "bypassing" I tried to explain those roundabouts you need to take while building InquiMages to turn them to "damage givers" from "crowd control freaks", like spending talent points very precisely and taking weird items into mind when doing so (like that build that makes all fire-mines critical damage dealers thaks to an amulet turning every attack from invisibilty into a critical one). 

[SpaceV3gan]

Mages are certainly not underpowered, unless you are comparing them to Rogues.

 

Also, the removal of Blood Mages makes sense lore wise, since there isn't much room for the Inquisitor to go renegade, opposed to DA:O and early DA2.

[PapaCharlie9]

Mages are certainly not underpowered, unless you are comparing them to Rogues.

In comparison to DAO. OP said DA1, but I assume that's DAO.

Nevermind Lore, where is the equivalent of Storm of the Century, Glyph of Repulsion, Mana Clash? Not to mention Arcane Warrior specialization.