One thing I hated about Inquisition was that the novels had almost as many references as the other games. In mass effect there were several nods, which I think was perfect. I genuinely felt Cole, plots with Orlais, and a few other points were severely lacking due to over reliance on secondary source material.
Can we go back to nods instead of direct references that need to be understood without a vague feeling of confusion?
I don't really care about the novels' existence, but I don't even like that ME 3 relied on DLC from ME 2 for the story to make sense, which was not as severe as the extent to which DA:I relied on DLC for DA 2.
Yes, The DLC and the Novels are kinda secondary content that contain the main plot. I feel it is unnecessary
Well ME3 did a decent job with some characters (Kahlee Sanders - you can ask her about how she knew Anderson and she gives a quick background and then Anderson fills in more pieces through the game when you talk to him)
and some poor Jobs (Kai Lang - he should have been introduced in ME2 in the very least honestly to be considered any type of threat as just showing up in ME3 he just felt shoehorned and his cut-scenes felt forced in trying to make him seem threatening)
If they do add material from secondary sources they should, at the very least, have the options to get background information or an overview of the character/events as to not alienate anyone.
I fully agree. It played a part in ruining DA:I for me. Fiona/Alistair, the timed mission at the court of Orlais, the desire demon and so on... I found that somewhat insulting to players who didn't read the novels before playing the game. We paid the full price for 75% of the story... I'm sorry, that's unacceptable.
I'm cool with tie-in material so long as it functions sort of like the Star Wars Expanded Universe used to. I have no issue with it so long as its just telling new stories in the Mass Effect universe without retconning previous game canon, and so long as the game writers don't assume the players are familiar with characters or events from the books or comics.
Actually I wouldn't mind a novel or graphic novel about the "ARK" being built and people sent to sabotage it, or criminal event/attack that endangers everyone aboard the ARK and an ordinary human (or alien) prevents it. Or even just about the journey to Andromeda. It needs to be done so where players that don't care for the books/comics won't miss anything or be confused when they play the game.
Like the first 3 books were decent, 7/10. They really add background story to the universe and characters, but it's not supplemental material to play the games.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with an "Andromeda novel/book". You want to remain in the dark? Then don't read it.
Novels can flesh out the story/background in ways that no video game can even come close. The main weakness of the video game is for the Creative Director to stay true to the book. A difficult job apparently.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with an "Andromeda novel/book". You want to remain in the dark? Then don't read it.
Novels can flesh out the story/background in ways that no video game can even come close. The main weakness of the video game is for the Creative Director to stay true to the book. A difficult job apparently.
I don't really care about the novels existence, but I don't even like that ME 3 relied on DLC from ME 2 for the story to make sense, which was not as severe as the extent to which DA:I relied on DLC for DA 2.
Agree about Arrival being incredibly plot relevant to ME3 yet barely explained at all in ME3, but DAI certainly didn't rely on DLC from DA2. Cory was introduced in DA2 DLC sure, but everything that is plot relevent to DAI can be learned in DAI. You can talk to Hawke and learn everything that he knows within DAI itself. DAI didn't do a whole lot right, but explaining the DA2 DLC in-game in DAI was one it did well. There is literally no need to play Legacy, because everything you would learn in it is told to you in DAI.
Everything the player needs to know about Cole is in DAI. He has backstory from one of the two books, but that merely expands his character, it isn't necessary to understand his character. So Masked Empire isn't even necessary at all to understand DAI, codexes and conversations with Cole, Briala, & Celene tell you everything you really need to learn from the books anyway.
The only time the tie-in novels really detract from the plot in-game is ME3, because the books are the only way you ever really learn why Cerberus and The Illusive Man got bat crap crazy. ME DLC (forgot the name, but the one where we go swimming with Leviathans) is also one instance where not playing DLC actively detracts from the story (you could argue the last DAI DLC is necessary for the story, but really it isn't necessary for the story of DAI, but it will be necessary [probably] for the story of DA4).
All-in-all the tie in novels can be ignored safely at the players choice. Stolen Throne was an excellent read and really tells you more about Loghain and makes him a far more sympathetic character, however it isn't neccessary. The other DA tie-ins are more or less the same, they add to the world but do not provide exclusive information that is necessary to know in-game. The original ME DLC (with Anderson and Saren) is completely 100% ignorable safely. It expands Anderson as a character, but doesn't really say anything directly necessary to play ME1 (or 2) effectively. The later stories do (sadly) start relaying information that is rather 'plot critical' and is never relayed in game.
I don't think tie-in novels are necessary, and I don't think ME:A would benefit from it. The only possible story an ME:A tie-in could have is pre-jump building the ARK and leaving the Milky Way. That is all information that *needs* to be relayed in game in ME:A anyway. If that info is not in ME:A (about a 5% chance from my estimations of BW's writing consistency) then the story will be completely unhinged from the rest of ME and would probably destroy the game. I wouldn't mind a novel expanding this information and providing characterization to some NPCs important to the pre-jump plot, but less relevant later (think Anderson in ME1), but all plot-relevant information in such a novel should be available in game anyway (Just like Mass Effect: Revelation).
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with an "Andromeda novel/book". You want to remain in the dark? Then don't read it.
Novels can flesh out the story/background in ways that no video game can even come close. The main weakness of the video game is for the Creative Director to stay true to the book. A difficult job apparently.
I agree for the most part, though with tie-in novels I'd be more concerned about the writers struggling to stay true to the games. A good example of that would be the identity of Alistair's mother in Dragon Age. Gaider revealed it to be an elven mage in one of his books, contradicting both a side quest in DA:O that named a human servant as his mother, and dialogue from Loghain (quoting King Maric, Alistair's father) that implied the same. It was an example of tie-in material superseding previous game canon, something that should never happen IMO.
With the Mass Effect or Dragon Age series the game material should always be the highest level of canon, with tie-in material like books or comics being supplementary and overruled by game content when there is conflicting information.
Meh. I think there was enough Cole stuff in that you could do just fine understanding him without the secondary sources, mind you I can't be totally objective since I did read the book. I didn't read any ME stuff and I think I understood everything just fine though. As long as there is ENOUGH in the base game to get the important stuff and the story/arc does not actively suffer for it I think it's fair for people who make the further time/money investment to acquire and consume secondary media to get 'more' out of the same content.
If they can charge new comers for it, which in turn feeds them lore, they will be made.
From what I've read of the novels I always thought the DA ones were of a much higher quality than the ME publications.
I agree if a story is to be told then it's much better for said content to be in the game.
Still I'm cool with novels that support and add details to the main game content as long as it's not vital information. I do hope though they quit with comics, I loath them all.
I liked the comics personally, better than sitting through average to poorly written fiction (I wont/can't). Everything should be in game that is needed to understand the point of the plot. I like that there can be side material that fills in details, however if i don't understand what the point of a story driven game is, I'll quit playing. I played WoW for a LONG time and just never cared about the lore. I never did/never will read a WoW novel. Cartoony world/cartoony plots = don't give a crap. It was about the combat and gameplay rotation system (PC,G13 w/macros galore), and when Blizzard broke my rogue's mechanics (worse than they ever had...),i had no reason to stay on. Story meant F.A. to me and that franchise has lost me permanently.
I hope ME continues with investing in good writers and makes it a policy to keep canon solid. I guess that was the inevitable issue with ME3 endings. Should there ever really be endings in a game like Mass Effect? Maybe for a protagonist, but not for the world created which can contain untold/uncountable numbers of stories and characters
I'm a late-comer to DA franchise, which might explain why I became very annoyed with not being easily able to transfer my game state from the xbox360 (bought slim used w DAO, DA:A, DA2.Note those icons are not on my Bioware profile pic, they are on an xbox account i cannot move without having them deleted permanently... ... ...), as it is how i understand the DA world. First thing i noticed on DAI (on PS4) was Liliana had a whole backlog of history i missed as i didn't want to spend the $8 on an old DLC (is that on a GOTY??). How did she get involved with the Inquisition? She was my DAO LI and no sign of my Warden (yet, i'm just starting to play it, but big questions). This might stem from a very crude information database that had to be made from Keep choices and not a direct game state change from game to game. This limits the detail of information that can be sent to the new/next installation. If the choices matter, just toggling yes/no to 20 questions seems to make me feel less like giving a crap.
I agree with the op, also the novels put a immediate bias for or against characters or events that you have to try and overcome in game. Have novels with characters and such after the fact but with no future tie ins? Go for it, but keep the actual tie ins to a minimum.
I agree with the OP, yet I also agree with several others. I agree that they should not cut out entire parts of the galaxy's history just to simply put them in a book just to increase sales numbers. However, I also agree that as long as they put enough in that you can go, "Okay... I can see where he/she's coming from and why he/she did that" that it will be fine. It's just games like WoW and Halo and anything else that you've gotta buy 37 books and watch 20 hours of youtube videos simply to understand what is going on.
I couldn't stand that about WoW.
EDIT : I think the term that you're all searching for here for Kai Leng is one dimensional. Me? I can see him in three dimensions, but that's only because I've actively searched for him in the codex/etc.
Then using the argument here they shouldn't have included anything from Mass Effect 1 because the people that were playing on the PS3 didn't have access to the game until after Mass Effect 3's launch. I didn't have a problem with any of the tie-in material with either game and with the way people are constantly complaining about how poorly stuff is imported into the games this will always be a consequence because content that might be included to explain it, but cut for one reason or another.
Why not write novels about different people, you don´t meet or that tie in with the main game? Some murder mystery on Illium or another spectre investigating different stuff or some story about Alliance marines or whatever.
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