98 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I wish the Humans in Mass Effect were more like the Humans in Star Control. Ambitious and clever, and recognized as dangerous, but in no way capable of challenging the might of the big names in the galaxy, and certainly weaker than some of the mid-tier races of the galaxy, too.

 

It all started with the Humans being stronger than the Batarians from the get-go. It never should've been that way. The narrative should have been that the Hegemony was easily more than a match for the Alliance, but the Council was in turn far more powerful than the Hegemony, and shielded the Humans since the Asari/Salarians/Turians recognized the Batarian state was a worthless ally, and an outright liability. Thus the bitter Batarians resort to a shadow war, etc.

[Ahglock]

I wish the Humans in Mass Effect were more like the Humans in Star Control. Ambitious and clever, and recognized as dangerous, but in no way capable of challenging the might of the big names in the galaxy, and certainly weaker than some of the mid-tier races of the galaxy, too.

It all started with the Humans being stronger than the Batarians from the get-go. It never should've been that way. The narrative should have been that the Hegemony was easily more than a match for the Alliance, but the Council was in turn far more powerful than the Hegemony, and shielded the Humans since the Asari/Salarians/Turians recognized the Batarian state was a worthless ally, and an outright liability. Thus the bitter Batarians resort to a shadow war, etc.

Please we have a genetic trait for smashing spiders. Ugly head spider people never stood a chance.

[SporkFu]

A few million humans (if that much) in one ship just arriving in a galaxy whichprobably has quite a few established spacefaring species. Probably not in the Pathfinder´s lifetime.

Why not? Javik told shep that his original purpose was to re-establish the prothean empire with only -- only -- a million protheans, in order to prepare the galaxy for the reapers' return. Granted, I think the plan was to awake much sooner than he actually did. And yet, knowing Javik, had he gotten his million prothean compadres, I'm guessing he would have tried to rebuild the Empire anyway. He's kinda cool that way ...all I mean is, who knows what we'll find in Andromeda? That galactic community may not be nearly as advanced as we are. Maybe we'll be pioneers there too. I'd be okay with that

[Fredward]

Yah know I never really got why I should support a sport's team just cuz they come from the same general geographical area, I imagine this whole humanity 1st thing is something similar. It will make a whole lot more sense for us to be Special Fabulous Snowflakes now though, uncharted territory and such vs an established power system preceding us by thousands of years.

[KaiserShep]

Yah know I never really got why I should support a sport's team just cuz they come from the same general geographical area, I imagine this whole humanity 1st thing is something similar.

 

I guess a key difference is that support for one's own species will typically encompass concerns about all aspects of our way of life and its future long-term, while the other does not in any real capacity. Sports teams are disposable; one's own species is not, except perhaps to the misanthrope. You could be certain that if humanity was currently a spacefaring species as part of a galactic community of other aliens, human interests would always take priority to some degree.

[BioWareM0d13]

All of the Milky Way colonists should be outnumbered by the Andromedan locals, I would think. As such I think I'd rather see all of the refugees, both human and alien, merge into a single faction similar to say the Federation from Star Trek, and play the scrappy underdog role. 

 

That is assuming that there is a rough technological parity. If Bioware opts to tell a story dealing with the darker side of colonization, such as imperialism or exploitation, the Milky Way species might offset a numerical disadvantage with a significant technological superiority, not unlike the first waves of European colonists and conquistadors in the Americas.

[SwobyJ]

1)Instead of human Alliance, its a united Milky Way group (see: Han Shot First's post above)

 

2)Instead of Humanity expanding in a galaxy ruled by the Council/Reapers/however you want to see it, have it about a galactic force starting to expand in an extragalactic territory that is much more hostile than what we've generally (on average at least) faced before, and this can include greater systems of control than even the Reapers, just as long as we're not rehashing 'extinction cycle' death themes, but try at something more nuanced feeling. Have it less about fight for survival (what is worth the cost, etc etc) and more about a struggle to make a good life, and figuring out what a good life/society/etc actually is.

 

ME trilogy, broadly, has humanity stepping up and taking the center stage. Ok cool. And I don't mind starting MEA with that. But I'd love a MEA that ends with a full acknowledgement that there's a soft cap at how much (organic, etc) humanity can actually reach, even in this heroic sci fi series. I wouldn't mind this being the last Mass Effect that goes in any huge way 'HUMANITY! EFF YEAH!' (to be clear, 'huge', as in focus). I want humanity to continue and to be important, so I don't mean I want that to stop, but it would be nice if MEA ends on a tone that doesn't just say 'humanity must work together with others in some sort of, if temporary, unity' (ME3), but instead fully admits that in the extragalactic scale, humanity may finally figure out its dealing with something that it'll have to blatantly evolve (in some form) to face on its level.

 

Frankly, Shepard vs the Reapers was stretching things far enough, and even then, we have stuff like IT and other theories happening.

[Fredward]

I guess a key difference is that support for one's own species will typically encompass concerns about all aspects of our way of life and its future long-term, while the other does not in any real capacity. Sports teams are disposable; one's own species is not, except perhaps to the misanthrope. You could be certain that if humanity was currently a spacefaring species as part of a galactic community of other aliens, human interests would always take priority to some degree.

 

Sure, but that's not how this is approached. It's rah-rah sports team, we the best chest bumping not 'oh god we're under threat and need to survive.' And forwarding self interest of you and yours is understandable, doing so knowingly at the expense of others is less so.
 

If humans in Andromeda wanted to set up like a human hegemony where other species were actively treated as lesser or excluded in some way and Asari offered something more balanced I would drop humans is what I'm saying.

[Catastrophy]

We bring pop music and fashion. They will soon be our slaves. #HMR

[Ahglock]

1)Instead of human Alliance, its a united Milky Way group (see: Han Shot First's post above)

2)Instead of Humanity expanding in a galaxy ruled by the Council/Reapers/however you want to see it, have it about a galactic force starting to expand in an extragalactic territory that is much more hostile than what we've generally (on average at least) faced before, and this can include greater systems of control than even the Reapers, just as long as we're not rehashing 'extinction cycle' death themes, but try at something more nuanced feeling. Have it less about fight for survival (what is worth the cost, etc etc) and more about a struggle to make a good life, and figuring out what a good life/society/etc actually is.

ME trilogy, broadly, has humanity stepping up and taking the center stage. Ok cool. And I don't mind starting MEA with that. But I'd love a MEA that ends with a full acknowledgement that there's a soft cap at how much (organic, etc) humanity can actually reach, even in this heroic sci fi series. I wouldn't mind this being the last Mass Effect that goes in any huge way 'HUMANITY! EFF YEAH!' (to be clear, 'huge', as in focus). I want humanity to continue and to be important, so I don't mean I want that to stop, but it would be nice if MEA ends on a tone that doesn't just say 'humanity must work together with others in some sort of, if temporary, unity' (ME3), but instead fully admits that in the extragalactic scale, humanity may finally figure out its dealing with something that it'll have to blatantly evolve (in some form) to face on its level.

Frankly, Shepard vs the Reapers was stretching things far enough, and even then, we have stuff like IT and other theories happening.

I hope not. ME3 already did that by trying to force the authors transhumanists religion on us with synthesis.

It has the same emotional appeal of them saying through the power of our lord we won. I don't need any religion forced on me in my entertainment.

[Dantriges]

Why not? Javik told shep that his original purpose was to re-establish the prothean empire with only -- only -- a million protheans, in order to prepare the galaxy for the reapers' return. Granted, I think the plan was to awake much sooner than he actually did. And yet, knowing Javik, had he gotten his million prothean compadres, I'm guessing he would have tried to rebuild the Empire anyway. He's kinda cool that way ...all I mean is, who knows what we'll find in Andromeda? That galactic community may not be nearly as advanced as we are. Maybe we'll be pioneers there too. I'd be okay with that

 

I said, not in the Pathfinder´s lifetime. Anyways, the plan was to sleep through the harvest and wake up shortly after in a galaxy where any kind of opposition with a similar techlevel was harvested. So they would have known the place, could repair any ruins left behind (it´s their stuff after all) and use their technologial advantage against any of the pre FTL or even pre spaceflight species objecting. And well, considering that they set themselves up as gods or enlightened beings at least, resisteance would be rather low on some worlds. So they would have more time to build an empire. I don´t think Javik expected to be the emperor of the whole galaxy after ten, twenty or even fifty years.

 

It will be more difficult when you arrive in agalaxy you know pretty much nothing about with already established species you also know nothing about. And I am pretty sure, that there will be opposition on a similar techlevel, shooting the natives armed with spears might be fun for some time and people, but somehow I think BW isn´tplanning to make a shooter where the opponents are not a challenge at all.

[SwobyJ]

I hope not. ME3 already did that by trying to force the authors transhumanists religion on us with synthesis.

It has the same emotional appeal of them saying through the power of our lord we won. I don't need any religion forced on me in my entertainment.

 

Force? I recall facing the enemy and defeating them with Destroy.

[DeathScepter]

a thread i can get behind.... Also I don't have a problem with Aliens. To me, Humanity regardless of their relationship to Aliens needs to stay strong. Alone or together with other species, Humanity needs to be strong.

[Ahglock]

Force? I recall facing the enemy and defeating them with Destroy.

I said try. Synthesis was so heavy handed in its religious cult propaganda it was a definite attempt to force that choice. They failed but they tried.

[Andrew Lucas]

Laugh all you want, but its true. None of the other spieces fit the role of being number one. It did take a human to stop the reapers

You did good.

[ShadyKat]

Laugh all you want, but its true. None of the other spieces fit the role of being number one. It did take a human to stop the reapers

So we are pretending Shep didn't get tons of help from Garrus, Liara, Tali, Mordin etc?
Shep didn't defeat the Reapers by himself/herself, wnd more than likely would have failed without his alien friends.

[ShadyKat]

a thread i can get behind.... Also I don't have a problem with Aliens. To me, Humanity regardless of their relationship to Aliens needs to stay strong. Alone or together with other species, Humanity needs to be strong.

Gotta keep the Mary Sue vibe going into Andromeda.
=p

[Synthetic Turian]

So we are pretending Shep didn't get tons of help from Garrus, Liara, Tali, Mordin etc?
Shep didn't defeat the Reapers by himself/herself, wnd more than likely would have failed without his alien friends.

 

Shhh. Humans defeated the Reapers on their own. 

 

Without alien assistance, that Human Reaper would've been the next Reaper.

 

What was it that Sovereign said? "You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance."

 

Stupid humans. If it makes you feel better, you can keep pretending like you're the center of the universe though. 

[Joseph Warrick]

Asari first.

I hope the squadmate roster is comprised of five or six asari.

[themikefest]

So we are pretending Shep didn't get tons of help from Garrus, Liara, Tali, Mordin etc?
Shep didn't defeat the Reapers by himself/herself, wnd more than likely would have failed without his alien friends.

Lets take a look at that help you mention

 

If Jack isn't alive in ME3, Prangley will always be killed. Why couldn't Liara and Garrus, if he's alive in ME3, provide cover fire while Shepard helped Rodriquez get to the shuttle? If that had happened, Prangley most likely would've lived.

 

When facing Ashley/Kaidan during the coup, Udina says Shepard is with Cerberus. Why couldn't Liara and Garrus speak up saying that Shepard is not with Cerberus especially since a lot of them have been killed. All they did was stand there with their tentacle or claw stuck up their fifth point of contact. Had they of spoken up in support of Shepard, Ashley/Kaidan may of lowered their weapon and avoid being shot.

 

When rescuing the ex-Cerberus scientists, Shepard is knocked to the ground. Who do you think it was that helped Shepard back on the shuttle? That's right. It wasn't Liara or Garrus or Tali. It was Dr. Cole and to provide cover fire, it was Jacob, if alive, or Dr. Webber. What was Liara and Garrus and Tali doing while this was happening? Lets ask them.

 

Garrus: I was calibrating something

Liara: I was taking armor from dead bodies.

Tali: I was getting drunk

 

The funny part about that is Tali, Liara and Garrus are potential love interest. If I was to romance one of them, I would break off the relationship and kick them off my ship. What's the point of having them as squadmates if they don't have my back?

 

Tali wasn't needed in ME3 unless you wanted peace. But her just standing around doing nothing while the geth uploads the code was pathetic. She really never cared about her species. I give her high marks for the nice swan dive. 

 

With Mordin. Yes he was helpful especially in ME2, but he was not needed in ME3. Padok Wiks did the same thing and fortunatley he was nice enough to not cure the geneophage.

[Arcian]

Will humans, although being new to the galactic community in a new galaxy.. Will we rise quickly to dominance like we did in Mass Effect? I believe it took Humanity 30-40 years to get a seat on the council, even less for an embassy... And we helped shape galactic events before the events of ME1.

 

I hope that Humans get put in there place in Andromeda from time to time... And this is coming from a guy who loves Cerberus...

That 30 year jump from earthbound primitives to galactic leaders made absolutely no sense on any level.

[Dantriges]

Lets take a look at that help you mention

You are aware that weird cutscene behaviour is probably a result of BW saving time or budget?
Jacob is only there for one mission, so let´s take him or his substitute, Brynne always there, so let´s use her. Probably easier than adjusting the cutscene for different types of squadmates with different sizes.

Coup scene: Works, why put in the extra effort?

I am not happy about that either, but I find it hard t blame the characters for it. It´s so surreal as the mute second squadmate in the ME 2 loyalty missions.

[themikefest]

You are aware that weird cutscene behaviour is probably a result of BW saving time or budget?

If that's the case, than Bioware should've planned their time and budget better
 

Jacob is only there for one mission, so let´s take him or his substitute, Brynne always there, so let´s use her. Probably easier than adjusting the cutscene for different types of squadmates with different sizes.

Doesn't matter. At that moment I would've taken Jacob/Webber/Cole for squadmates and get rid of the others. What's cool about Jacob providing cover fire is he's an ME2 squadmate. He showed the ME1 squadmates how's it done. He maybe a boring character, but I would take him to watch my back over the others any day.
 

Coup scene: Works, why put in the extra effort?

Why not? If the squadmates can't stand up for each other and Shepard, than what's the point of having them on the squad.
 

I am not happy about that either, but I find it hard t blame the characters for it. It´s so surreal as the mute second squadmate in the ME 2 loyalty missions.

I wasn't blaming the character. I'm mentioning he wasn't needed in ME3

[Dantriges]

If that's the case, than Bioware should've planned their time and budget better

 
Well, that´s a nice summary for the whole of ME 3.
 

 

Doesn't matter. At that moment I would've taken Jacob/Webber/Cole for squadmates and get rid of the others. What's cool about Jacob providing cover fire is he's an ME2 squadmate. He showed the ME1 squadmates how's it done. He maybe a boring character, but I would take him to watch my back over the others any day.

 

Yeah well. Thescene was badly executed. Even if the squadmates would give a f*** about Shep dying, returning fire would have been a better idea to reduce incoming.

[SwobyJ]

I said try. Synthesis was so heavy handed in its religious cult propaganda it was a definite attempt to force that choice. They failed but they tried.

 

I'm still not seeing any force.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bioware writers for the ending and synthesis gist intended for many players to be creeped out by how positively synthesis was shown.

 

I see flaws in BW's work but sometimes I think they're just not given credit for certain possible accomplishments.