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Your Most Hated Character In The Mass Effect Series?


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#751
Vortex13

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Yeah you want to talk about writer's pet look no further than Cerberus.

 

A special snowflake that, as I have said before, replaced the goram Reapers as the main antagonist/most important faction in a game series about the Reapers and their invasion of the Milky Way.

 

 

Another annoyance as far as factions and concepts is concerned was the N7 program suddenly becoming more prestigious than Spectre status in the (apparent) eyes of the galaxy. Seriously, the narrative makes a bigger deal about James planning to become N7 than Kaiden/Ashley becoming the second human Spectre in the entire galaxy.


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#752
von uber

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Another annoyance as far as factions and concepts is concerned was the N7 program suddenly becoming more prestigious than Spectre status in the (apparent) eyes of the galaxy. Seriously, the narrative makes a bigger deal about James planning to become N7 than Kaiden/Ashley becoming the second human Spectre in the entire galaxy.

 

That's because Humans Are Special, and their training programmes even more special.


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#753
Natureguy85

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They seriously also made Miranda's face weird with that oversized jaw that her face model Yvonne doesn't have.

 

Also I seriously hope Yvonne gets role in new ME:A...perhaps even be one of voice options for our protagonist, I just love her....guess reason for it is because she reminds me on my ex too much lol

 

Yeah, I know what you mean about the jaw, but it only bothered me from certain angles. Heck, I've seen a few pictures of my personal "most beautiful woman ever", Candice Swanepoel, with the same problem. I still saw the beautiful Yvonne Strahovski in Miranda's face. I really liked her teeth actually (is that weird? Something about that very slight bucktooth was cute) and of course her voice.

 

 

On the surface of it I see what you're saying, and if there had been better continuation from ME1 to ME2 regarding whether or not you steered him away from his Dirty Harry routine or not, I'd accept it. 

 

I totally agree, especially because I love the scene if you try to arrest Dr. Saleon so much. Garrus complains but follows Shepard's lead. After Saleon fights back and is killed, Garrus asks what the point was. Shepard explains that you're responsible for your own actions, not the actions of others. Garrus accepts this and comments that he never met anyone like Shepard. This was not simply the protagonist influencing another character, but actually teaching him something, which fit into that whole mentor relationship they seemed to be setting up. Then ME2 ignores it. I still like the Sidonus quest. You're helping Garrus move on either way, but the question is if it is through vengeance or letting go.

 

 

Yeah you want to talk about writer's pet look no further than Cerberus.

 

A special snowflake that, as I have said before, replaced the goram Reapers as the main antagonist/most important faction in a game series about the Reapers and their invasion of the Milky Way.

 

 

Another annoyance as far as factions and concepts is concerned was the N7 program suddenly becoming more prestigious than Spectre status in the (apparent) eyes of the galaxy. Seriously, the narrative makes a bigger deal about James planning to become N7 than Kaiden/Ashley becoming the second human Spectre in the entire galaxy.

 

Yes. Very yes. This is why Cerberus was so annoying in ME3, alongside the logistics of suddenly having a massive armada and army.

 

I didn't really think about the promotion of N7 vs Specter but that's interesting. I just hated both because I saw it as the characters following Shepard's footsteps to closely. At least with the VS becoming a Specter you could see it as Udina making a political play, but we have no reason to think James is worthy of following Shepard's footsteps. ME starts out with you getting to pick one of three reasons why Shepard is great and well known to Alliance brass. All we know of this James guy is that he whines at the beginning, crashed a shuttle that apparently has guns in a ramming attack, and got some sort of intel about Collectors. This is after Ashley is somehow a Lt. Commander, again just because that's what Shepard is.


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#754
Neverwinter_Knight77

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When I was playing ME1, I did want Cerberus to be expanded, but more of a side antagonist, like the Blue Suns or something, and then you'd eventually take them down sometime in ME2, while preparing for the Reapers. Cerberus should never have been an enemy faction in ME3. The focus should've been the Reapers.
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#755
Vortex13

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I didn't really think about the promotion of N7 vs Specter but that's interesting. I just hated both because I saw it as the characters following Shepard's footsteps to closely. At least with the VS becoming a Specter you could see it as Udina making a political play, but we have no reason to think James is worthy of following Shepard's footsteps. ME starts out with you getting to pick one of three reasons why Shepard is great and well known to Alliance brass. All we know of this James guy is that he whines at the beginning, crashed a shuttle that apparently has guns in a ramming attack, and got some sort of intel about Collectors. This is after Ashley is somehow a Lt. Commander, again just because that's what Shepard is.


I'm sure Kadain/Ashley's promotion to Spectre status was political move by Udina as well, but still, the game just sort of glosses over the fact that they are accepted into the strictest, most selective of all military branches in the entire galaxy, with independent oversight into all of their actions and answerable only to the Council.

An organization that doesn't have to answer to anyone outside of the Council, and given a mandate to pursue objectives and respond to threats against the galaxy by any means necessary, and Ash/Kaiden treat it like they're getting a commemorative pin for participating in a foot race.

Then there's the whole 'honorary N7' status that the Alliance gives the operatives fighting on the front lines; like its some great bagde of pride. I'm pretty sure that the other species have their own military branches, and they wouldn't look to fondly on someone else making insinuations that this foreign military is better then theirs.

It would be like the Marines, French Forgien Legion, and the Russian Spetsnaz all being made 'Honorary Navy Seals'.


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#756
Natureguy85

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I'm sure Kadain/Ashley's promotion to Spectre status was political move by Udina as well, but still, the game just sort of glosses over the fact that they are accepted into the strictest, most selective of all military branches in the entire galaxy, with independent oversight into all of their actions and answerable only to the Council.

An organization that doesn't have to answer to anyone outside of the Council, and given a mandate to pursue objectives and respond to threats against the galaxy by any means necessary, and Ash/Kaiden treat it like they're getting a commemorative pin for participating in a foot race.

Then there's the whole 'honorary N7' status that the Alliance gives the operatives fighting on the front lines; like its some great bagde of pride. I'm pretty sure that the other species have their own military branches, and they wouldn't look to fondly on someone else making insinuations that this foreign military is better then theirs.

It would be like the Marines, French Forgien Legion, and the Russian Spetsnaz all being made 'Honorary Navy Seals'.

 

Well, blame ME2 for diminishing Specters. It pretty much means nothing and Shepard can refuse or be denied reinstatement. The only time I even remember it being brought up is when confronting the C-Sec and Volus turds harassing the Quarian. I understand it's because you're operating outside of Council Space, but look at Illium, supposedly an Asari world. You need Liara to waive the docking fees rather than being able to tell them to shove it, and you need the detective's permission to enter the crime scene.

 

And the Salarian in ME3 not only can't track Kasumi (yeah I know she's the best thief or whatever), but he can't fight off one Indoctrinated human. I know Salarians aren't big on physicality, but shouldn't a Spectre be a bit more capable than that?

 

 

I didn't catch the thing about honorary N7 status. It reminds me of Kingdom of Heaven  where Orlando Bloom's character knights all of the fighters before the big battle. It was supposed to be a boost to morale, which might sound silly, but the movie actually demonstrated this by having the soldiers visibly show more confidence and discipline. Without that, yeah, I can see that cheapening the status. Or maybe they were thinking of Dragon Age Awakening where the Casteless Dwarves who fought to hold off a Darkspawn army were made Warrior caste to honor their deeds. However it's not the same because Casteless are barely considered people, while Warriors are the highest non-Noble caste.


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#757
aoibhealfae

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Yeah, but you can say this about pretty much any popular Biower character in terms of getting more content due to fanservice. Liara's just the absolute most popular so she ends up at the top of the heap.

Garrus is hardly different except the ability to avoid him in ME1 and kill him in ME2, with the primary difference that you can't bang him in the first game. In terms of available content it's pretty much a wash with Liara over the trilogy (he doesn't get his own DLC, but he is available for all 3 games). 

Tali is next, but has less content overall due to appearing halfway through the last 2 installments, and can optionally be consistently treated like garbage unlike the other two. Is at least important to the outcome of a certain subplot in ME3. You can easily kill her in two separate places or just never pick her up in the 2nd game and she never shows up again.

VS shows up in like 1.5 games and Ashley in particular basically has an aborted character arc. You can kill them easily in 2 seperate places.

Wrex becomes a non squadmate NPC with a DLC cameo. Can be avoided entirely by never recruiting him in ME1.

Everyone from ME2 got dumped, some moreso than others (popular ones like Mordin/Legion/Miranda got somewhat important roles). Many of them were optional to begin with.

idk why I'm defending Liara because I pretty much don't care about her and hardly ever use her but W/e, I just don't get the hate for anything apart from her wildly inconsistent writing. To me the fact that she is front and center in ME3 is more an issue with every other previous installment character being utterly disposable at virtually no detriment, rather than anything to do with the character herself.

 

If its the matter of a character being the most important front and center to the trilogy, it would be Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy. 

 

Now, let me present the case of ME3's Liara T'Soni. We pick her up on Mars. VS nearly died because they pushed her away in time. She have the information to save the universe, so she get to present to the council, apparently not caring that someone could point out that she's the Galactic Crime Boss. She come up to your room twice to send a message. If you didn't pick Javik up, you still have to pick her for Menae and if Garrus is dead, she get one small scene for her in the end where you have to reassure her that we'll save Thessia (and she's the default squadmate for the DLC and this adds two Normandy scenes with her in it). Then the more optional parts; she get three personal scenes (and one exposition-filled dialogues) in her office, one personal scene in Shepard's cabin, three scenes at Citadel (plus one Citadel apartment scene). Other than Javik's DLC, she's also the default squadmate for Thessia and the first fight in Citadel DLC (if you don't romance the other squadmate). She also get one last scene on Earth.

 

All in all, that's like what? Thirteen and a half cinematic scenes dedicated for just one character. Unromanced. 

 

Then consider; Thane, you only get to talk to him once in the hospital and the next personal scene was him on the death bed. You get his memorial scene with his son and just a series of his vids about his deteriorating condition and the second final goodbye. You only get one mission with Jack with two relatively short scenes together (with repetitive option of dumping her) and one scene in Purgatory, one Armax Arena scene, one last scene in the apartment and a holocall. Miranda get three citadel scene, one on horizon, two personal scene with citadel DLC and one holocall goodbye. With Jacob, you get one hospital scene and one DLC scene which you need to just to slap him. 

 

Garrus get two Citadel scene, four scenes in Normandy. Kaidan and Ashley get one unconscious scene and two scene in hospital and each get two personal scenes each after Citadel Coup. Tali get two scene in the Normandy and one scene in Citadel, two missions with her as default squadmate. And each get their own citadel meet up and final goodbye scene in Priority Earth. 

 

(I think I missed something? Hmm) To get additional and different scenes with everyone else, you need romance to them or bring the rest of your squadmates with you at all times to get more short scenes with them. But simple fact is, whether you choose to ignore or unromance Liara in ME3, her default scenes still exceeded the rest. 

 

Now, what if, the game treated Liara like everyone else with just several condensed scenes and you're given the bulk of her resources and time and people for half of her scenes. If you could just imagine the things you wish to add more into the game.... say EDI romance? Fixing glitches and lore inconsistencies? New exploration map? Better writing for Ashley? No more underwear sex for everyone else? Epic boss fight with TIM, Harbinger and Kai Leng? "Throwing Starbrat out of the airlock" minigame? "Throwing Allers out of the airlock" minigame? Reunion scenes? 

 

Ah, to be in an alternate dimension if someone stood up for once and say, "Stop fraking up ME3 more with more of your canon Liara fanfiction.".


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#758
Novak

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Jack sucks


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#759
Natureguy85

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If its the matter of a character being the most important front and center to the trilogy, it would be Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy.

 

Are you saying Tali is "the most important front and center to the trilogy"? Let me know if I misunderstood because no, she is not.

 

While she is plot critical as the provider of the Saren audio recording:

 

1) After that she just tags along and is as optional as every other squadmate.

2) She isn't recruitable until the second half of ME2 and even then is optional. (Now I want to see what happens in ME3 if you never pick her up in ME2. I'm guessing she gets exiled)

3) She can die in ME2

4) You don't get her until the second half of ME3 and again, she can die.

 

She is only important to Geth/Quarian peace.


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#760
DebatableBubble

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If its the matter of a character being the most important front and center to the trilogy, it would be Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy. 

 

Now, let me present the case of ME3's Liara T'Soni. We pick her up on Mars. VS nearly died because they pushed her away in time. She have the information to save the universe, so she get to present to the council, apparently not caring that someone could point out that she's the Galactic Crime Boss. She come up to your room twice to send a message. If you didn't pick Javik up, you still have to pick her for Menae and if Garrus is dead, she get one small scene for her in the end where you have to reassure her that we'll save Thessia (and she's the default squadmate for the DLC and this adds two Normandy scenes with her in it). Then the more optional parts; she get three personal scenes (and one exposition-filled dialogues) in her office, one personal scene in Shepard's cabin, three scenes at Citadel (plus one Citadel apartment scene). Other than Javik's DLC, she's also the default squadmate for Thessia and the first fight in Citadel DLC (if you don't romance the other squadmate). She also get one last scene on Earth.

 

All in all, that's like what? Thirteen and a half cinematic scenes dedicated for just one character. Unromanced. 

 

Then consider; Thane, you only get to talk to him once in the hospital and the next personal scene was him on the death bed. You get his memorial scene with his son and just a series of his vids about his deteriorating condition and the second final goodbye. You only get one mission with Jack with two relatively short scenes together (with repetitive option of dumping her) and one scene in Purgatory, one Armax Arena scene, one last scene in the apartment and a holocall. Miranda get three citadel scene, two personal scene with citadel DLC and one holocall goodbye. With Jacob, you get one hospital scene and one DLC scene which you need to just to slap him. 

 

Garrus get two Citadel scene, four scenes in Normandy. Kaidan and Ashley get one unconscious scene and two scene in hospital and each get two personal scenes each after Citadel Coup. Tali get two scene in the Normandy and one scene in Citadel, two missions with her as default squadmate. And each get their own final goodbye scene in Priority Earth. 

 

(I think I missed something? Hmm) To get additional and different scenes with everyone else, you need romance to them or bring the rest of your squadmates with you at all times to get more short scenes with them. But simple fact is, whether you choose to ignore or unromance Liara in ME3, her default scenes still exceeded the rest. 

 

Now, what if, the game treated Liara like everyone else with just several condensed scenes and you're given the bulk of her resources and time and people for half of her scenes. If you could just imagine the things you wish to add more into the game.... say EDI romance? Fixing glitches and lore inconsistencies? New exploration map? Better writing for Ashley? No more underwear sex for everyone else? Epic boss fight with TIM, Harbinger and Kai Leng? "Throwing Starbrat out of the airlock" minigame? "Throwing Allers out of the airlock" minigame? Reunion scenes? 

 

Preach it, girl. It's not Liara is the only one, though. Garrus is somewhat guilty of this, too. 



#761
Elhanan

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Am also not a fan of Blasto....

:D
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#762
Natureguy85

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Am also not a fan of Blasto....

:D

 

 

a4c92dddd65456d9a47677f3b7a0278b01048334

 

 

On another note, that Hanar looks really gross. Now instead of looking like a jellyfish, it looks like a stomach.


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#763
aoibhealfae

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Are you saying Tali is "the most important front and center to the trilogy"? Let me know if I misunderstood because no, she is not.

 

While she is plot critical as the provider of the Saren audio recording:

 

1) After that she just tags along and is as optional as every other squadmate.

2) She isn't recruitable until the second half of ME2 and even then is optional. (Now I want to see what happens in ME3 if you never pick her up in ME2. I'm guessing she gets exiled)

3) She can die in ME2

4) You don't get her until the second half of ME3 and again, she can die.

 

She is only important to Geth/Quarian peace.

 

Tali make you the Spectre that you are. You're fighting mostly Geth and she's the Quarian engineer with god-mode AI hacking skills. She's the first person who see you after you died and the first one to identify you as Shepard and her friend. She's Normandy's engineer. She's the Admiral of the Migrant Fleet. She help liberate her homeworld. She's the constant in the trilogy. Why was her potential to die make her insignificant? Liara could die as well in ME3, does that make her less than Tali?

 

And what was Liara's importance in the trilogy again? Being the virginal daughter of an indoctrinated matriarch. Trap herself in a bubble in a Prothean ruin. Mindfrak Shepard so she could conveniently infodump Ilos (why do we forget about Shia'la and that Rachni Queen again?). Stealing Shepard's corpse. Causing a drell to suffer daily imprisonment and torture for two years. Crucible discoverer who don't create backups. A freeloading crime lord who steal the XO office in a military warship during wartime.

 

Besides, how certain is everyone that Hackett is actually telling the truth about the Crucible. The Alliance could have discovered the plans earlier and he could have them build it in secret without everyone knowing and merely use Liara and Shepard to smooth things with Alien races. How would you react if someone create a superweapon especially before everyone found out that the Reapers were real? Wasn't it odd that he didn't sound surprise at all and then had the Crucible half-complete by Sur'kesh arc. A massive superweapon which was half-done mere a couple of weeks after the invasion... not too convenient and not suspicious at all, was it?



#764
SlottsMachine

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Jack sucks

 

howdidthat_zps9125bee5.jpg



#765
liclic

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Niket the traitor !



#766
aoibhealfae

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Preach it, girl. It's not Liara is the only one, though. Garrus is somewhat guilty of this, too. 

 

For someone who is a fan favourite character, Garrus is surprisingly very insignificant. He's the true optional squadmate whose existence hardly matters in the trilogy. While I am happier if I could choose to not being a bro to Garrus but for someone everyone claim to love ardently, he's the most inconsequential of all. After all the effort, he is still a mere additional squadmate in ME3 rather than a character of importance whose presence could advance many of major plots. He should have been more involved in Tuchanka's Bomb and Genophage arc.

 

I find its pitiful that they couldn't make Victus being familiar to Garrus as a childhood friend for instance. The Cerberus bomb mission could have been Garrus' dramatic arc but instead they choose to make him churn Turian infodumps. So much potential.


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#767
gottaloveme

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If its the matter of a character being the most important front and center to the trilogy, it would be Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy. 

 

Now, let me present the case of ME3's Liara T'Soni. We pick her up on Mars. VS nearly died because they pushed her away in time. She have the information to save the universe, so she get to present to the council, apparently not caring that someone could point out that she's the Galactic Crime Boss. She come up to your room twice to send a message. If you didn't pick Javik up, you still have to pick her for Menae and if Garrus is dead, she get one small scene for her in the end where you have to reassure her that we'll save Thessia (and she's the default squadmate for the DLC and this adds two Normandy scenes with her in it). Then the more optional parts; she get three personal scenes (and one exposition-filled dialogues) in her office, one personal scene in Shepard's cabin, three scenes at Citadel (plus one Citadel apartment scene). Other than Javik's DLC, she's also the default squadmate for Thessia and the first fight in Citadel DLC (if you don't romance the other squadmate). She also get one last scene on Earth.

 

All in all, that's like what? Thirteen and a half cinematic scenes dedicated for just one character. Unromanced. 

 

Then consider; Thane, you only get to talk to him once in the hospital and the next personal scene was him on the death bed. You get his memorial scene with his son and just a series of his vids about his deteriorating condition and the second final goodbye. You only get one mission with Jack with two relatively short scenes together (with repetitive option of dumping her) and one scene in Purgatory, one Armax Arena scene, one last scene in the apartment and a holocall. Miranda get three citadel scene, one on horizon, two personal scene with citadel DLC and one holocall goodbye. With Jacob, you get one hospital scene and one DLC scene which you need to just to slap him. 

 

Garrus get two Citadel scene, four scenes in Normandy. Kaidan and Ashley get one unconscious scene and two scene in hospital and each get two personal scenes each after Citadel Coup. Tali get two scene in the Normandy and one scene in Citadel, two missions with her as default squadmate. And each get their own citadel meet up and final goodbye scene in Priority Earth. 

 

(I think I missed something? Hmm) To get additional and different scenes with everyone else, you need romance to them or bring the rest of your squadmates with you at all times to get more short scenes with them. But simple fact is, whether you choose to ignore or unromance Liara in ME3, her default scenes still exceeded the rest. 

 

Now, what if, the game treated Liara like everyone else with just several condensed scenes and you're given the bulk of her resources and time and people for half of her scenes. If you could just imagine the things you wish to add more into the game.... say EDI romance? Fixing glitches and lore inconsistencies? New exploration map? Better writing for Ashley? No more underwear sex for everyone else? Epic boss fight with TIM, Harbinger and Kai Leng? "Throwing Starbrat out of the airlock" minigame? "Throwing Allers out of the airlock" minigame? Reunion scenes? 

 

Ah, to be in an alternate dimension if someone stood up for once and say, "Stop fraking up ME3 more with more of your canon Liara fanfiction.".

 

You are now my new hero. :wizard:  Officially.  :police:

 

also 'kick starbrat out the airlock' as an arcade style game? Count me in. :devil:



#768
Elhanan

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Maya Brooks; tend to allow her to be shot while escaping more than saving her for more intel. By the time this occurs, I am about to decimate Cerberus, so more intel ain't worth much.

#769
gottaloveme

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Starts around .20

 



#770
Natureguy85

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There's a lot to unpack here so I'll split it up. Here we go!

 

Tali make you the Spectre that you are. You're fighting mostly Geth and she's the Quarian engineer with god-mode AI hacking skills. She's the first person who see you after you died and the first one to identify you as Shepard and her friend. She's Normandy's engineer. She's the Admiral of the Migrant Fleet. She help liberate her homeworld. She's the constant in the trilogy. Why was her potential to die make her insignificant? Liara could die as well in ME3, does that make her less than Tali?

 

Yes, Tali gave the evidence that got Shepard to be a Specter and that is important. That's one point for you. Unfortunately, that's it.

Her god-mode hacking skills are nice from a gameplay aspect but are never plot relevant. That she is the first to see Shepard is not relevant at all, though I should point out that she is the only one with a natural, believable, and appropriate response to seeing him, though she recovers rather quickly. She might be the admiral of the migrant fleet but that's not only optional because she could be dead, but is just because Shepard's friends get important jobs. Garrus has pull with the Turian hierarchy, Liara is the shadow broker, VS gets promoted and becomes a Specter. Of course Tali is there for the Rannoch arc but that can end with her and the Quarians all dead and the Geth helping the war effort. Her potential to die doesn't necessarily make her totally insignificant, but it does make her less significant and necessarily so because she might not be there! She is only necessary for Geth/Quarian peace, which is not necessary for the plot.

 

 

 


And what was Liara's importance in the trilogy again? Being the virginal daughter of an indoctrinated matriarch. Trap herself in a bubble in a Prothean ruin. Mindfrak Shepard so she could conveniently infodump Ilos (why do we forget about Shia'la and that Rachni Queen again?). Stealing Shepard's corpse. Causing a drell to suffer daily imprisonment and torture for two years. Crucible discoverer who don't create backups. A freeloading crime lord who steal the XO office in a military warship during wartime.

 

Liara is the one who directs us to Ilos, which is no less important than Tali helping Shepard become a Specter. So she's already tied Tali. Now to fly past her. Between games she recovers Shepard's body, without which there would be no ME2 or ME3. Mind you, this whole thing is stupid, but it's what we have. She leads us to two squadmates in ME2, though either one of the two can be ignored if Tali is recruited. She found the Crucible (yes, it's also stupid, but again, there it is) which is plot relevant. She also has more non-romance scenes with Shepard outside of missions, the two most significant being her Vigil, shown in the Refuse ending, and her mind-meld "gift" at Hammer FOB. She is the only character guaranteed to be there at the end and, like Miranda in ME2, there is only one way to kill her and you pretty much have to do it on purpose.

 

Really all you've done is arbitrarily bloated the importance of what Tali does and diminished the importance of what Liara does.

 

 

 


Besides, how certain is everyone that Hackett is actually telling the truth about the Crucible. The Alliance could have discovered the plans earlier and he could have them build it in secret without everyone knowing and merely use Liara and Shepard to smooth things with Alien races. How would you react if someone create a superweapon especially before everyone found out that the Reapers were real? Wasn't it odd that he didn't sound surprise at all and then had the Crucible half-complete by Sur'kesh arc. A massive superweapon which was half-done mere a couple of weeks after the invasion... not too convenient and not suspicious at all, was it?

 

This is silly inventing the narrative but I like it as an idea that could have been used. That certainly would have been a better conspiracy by Udina than the stupid Citadel coup.

 

 

 

For someone who is a fan favourite character, Garrus is surprisingly very insignificant. He's the true optional squadmate whose existence hardly matters in the trilogy. While I am happier if I could choose to not being a bro to Garrus but for someone everyone claim to love ardently, he's the most inconsequential of all. After all the effort, he is still a mere additional squadmate in ME3 rather than a character of importance whose presence could advance many of major plots. He should have been more involved in Tuchanka's Bomb and Genophage arc.

 

I find its pitiful that they couldn't make Victus being familiar to Garrus as a childhood friend for instance. The Cerberus bomb mission could have been Garrus' dramatic arc but instead they choose to make him churn Turian infodumps. So much potential.

 

This is a really good point. They should have actually focused on Garrus being a leader again after his self-labeled "failure" on Omega. Instead his "team" was just some exposition on what he's been doing since ME2.



#771
Onewomanarmy

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Jack sucks


Well pretty much this. Lol :D

#772
aoibhealfae

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There's a lot to unpack here so I'll split it up. Here we go!

 

 

Yes, Tali gave the evidence that got Shepard to be a Specter and that is important. That's one point for you. Unfortunately, that's it.

Her god-mode hacking skills are nice from a gameplay aspect but are never plot relevant. That she is the first to see Shepard is not relevant at all, though I should point out that she is the only one with a natural, believable, and appropriate response to seeing him, though she recovers rather quickly. She might be the admiral of the migrant fleet but that's not only optional because she could be dead, but is just because Shepard's friends get important jobs. Garrus has pull with the Turian hierarchy, Liara is the shadow broker, VS gets promoted and becomes a Specter. Of course Tali is there for the Rannoch arc but that can end with her and the Quarians all dead and the Geth helping the war effort. Her potential to die doesn't necessarily make her totally insignificant, but it does make her less significant and necessarily so because she might not be there! She is only necessary for Geth/Quarian peace, which is not necessary for the plot.

 

 

 

 

Liara is the one who directs us to Ilos, which is no less important than Tali helping Shepard become a Specter. So she's already tied Tali. Now to fly past her. Between games she recovers Shepard's body, without which there would be no ME2 or ME3. Mind you, this whole thing is stupid, but it's what we have. She leads us to two squadmates in ME2, though either one of the two can be ignored if Tali is recruited. She found the Crucible (yes, it's also stupid, but again, there it is) which is plot relevant. She also has more non-romance scenes with Shepard outside of missions, the two most significant being her Vigil, shown in the Refuse ending, and her mind-meld "gift" at Hammer FOB. She is the only character guaranteed to be there at the end and, like Miranda in ME2, there is only one way to kill her and you pretty much have to do it on purpose.

 

Really all you've done is arbitrarily bloated the importance of what Tali does and diminished the importance of what Liara does.

 

 

 

 

This is silly inventing the narrative but I like it as an idea that could have been used. That certainly would have been a better conspiracy by Udina than the stupid Citadel coup.

 

 

 

 

This is a really good point. They should have actually focused on Garrus being a leader again after his self-labeled "failure" on Omega. Instead his "team" was just some exposition on what he's been doing since ME2.

 

If you considered all the main characters in ME1 and applied them to the trilogy; each of them have varying degree of importance. 

 

To me, Tali is the major crucial narrating character in the trilogy with a consistent Synthetics-Organics conflict theme in the entire trilogy. Her personal arc starts from being a pilgrim kid who sacrificed everything to reach Citadel because she found incriminating evidence from a Geth that a Turian Spectre went rogue and nearly destroyed a human colony. Why would Tali go such length for a human colony? Especially an alien, Liara, Wrex and Garrus was all indifferent to humanity's plight but she's the only one who risk her life just to help the humans and expose a conspiracy. She could have just send the data to her father and let migrant fleet decide her cause of action. The heretics geth army are her people's responsibility. Her people created the geth and she's the sole person who actually stand up for her people and dealing with the consequences. 

 

In ME2, she's an older and experienced Geth specialist who do more actual scientist thing than Liara; data collection, sample collection. But the Synthetics/Organics theme conflict that drive her narrative again, Geth was involved in her personal conflicts repetitively, we see her grieving for her friends and her family. Shepard's actions by resolving the conflict between her and Legion was at the same time cemented hope that their people could work together.

 

In ME3, she changed so much in several months. As an Admiral, she pushed for peace with the Geth, considered Legion as her friend even though she still had her own reservation. Once peace was achieved, she became enlightened and had a hopeful outlook for the future. Her people have their home again and they gain a valuable ally and they were instrumental in supporting the war; evacuating the civilians and helping the resistance in reaper occupied territories. Like EDI and Shepard, the Quarians and the Geth are thematic significant, showing that Organics and Synthetics with free will, could work together in peace. Of all squad members, Tali's arcs across the trilogy itself is consistent. I'm not even a Talimancer but seeing the game narrative objectively, she's by far have the most involvement in the greater overarching storyline and that your past decisions do actually matter the most in her arcs.

-

 

I can't say the same thing with Liara. In fact nothing in Liara's narrative in the trilogy took account of your actions to her. Her presence with the confrontation against her mother is not required. Whether you pick her up very last or if didn't speak to her at all in ME1, she still have a big mighty crush on you and she still act like you're her best friend, you still get hugged by her upon meeting, she still become Shadow Broker whether you play LOTSB or not. Her role in retrieving Shepard's body only was acknowledged in the DLC and the comics. Even if you're indifferent to her and in love with another, the game still make it obvious that she had a big gigantic crush on you and the game did punish you especially if you romance someone else because how dare you to ignore her charms. If you do her Shadow Broker fetch quest, you get additional scene with her father where you have a choice to resolve her daddy's issue, which is still irrelevant btw. Post-Thessia, whether you care about the Asari or not, you always lose your cool, not because of Kai Leng taking Vandetta, its because Thessia was destroyed. You're sad and depressed because you promised a certain pretty alien girl that you will save her people and you failed her :(

 

Depending on your choices, you can have Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan, Tali and Garrus all varying degree of dead and neglect but you still have the exact same Liara's narrative in all playthroughs. The only thing that was made remotely important about her in the whole trilogy was how thick her plot armor was. Everyone else get simple dialogue branches and interrupts, she get the special requirement of at least a hundred hours worth of trilogy playthrough to get below 2000 EMS because its the only way to see her plot armor status getting destroyed by Harbinger.

 

Her LOTSB success and her massive fanbase was the reason why she was given expanded role without any justification of her plot armoring. 

 

In particular, I didn't feel she was that sincere about stopping the reaper and saving the galaxy. She's only interested in it because of Shepard, regardless of her romance status. Her personal motivation was paperthin and frankly, she is the most boring Shadow Broker. Aria, Miranda or even Kasumi could do a better job than her. Hell, she could have bribe the Citadel council and the Salarian and Asari government laundered all their dirty secrets just to gain their cooperation. Instead, the most renegade thing she did in her capacity as a SB was being b*tchy to Jack because Jack barely remember her.



#773
von uber

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Rather long diatribe against Liara


https://youtube.com/...h?v=L0MK7qz13bU
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#774
Vortex13

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Am also not a fan of Blasto....
 

 

 

Same here. I hate what BioWare did with the Hanar after the first game. One of the few 'alien' aliens with a unique culture and duality to them and all of that discarded in favor of Dirty Harry/Lethal Weapon riffs.  <_<



#775
SpaceV3gan

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I sincerely dislike Kai Leng, but that mostly has to do with this ninja-oriental-katana style, which I consider to be just pathetic and unfitting in the Mass Effect Universe. He would have been a much better character had he possessed standard biotic, combat or tech abilities.


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