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[Quarian Master Race]

I don't know, deciding between the hunter staggering you through three walls, rocket troopers triple tapping you... or phantom BS, paired with their goon boyfriends doing animation cancelling around the clock... it's a hard decision.

 

But as said, at least the Cerberus gives me that visceral thrill when I'm killing them. Juggernaut is far from my favourite class, but force chocking the phantom and listening to her cries of pain... totally worth it

You forgot the Prime and it's 100% accurate stunlock cannon of doom curving around walls from across the map to stunlock you after its drone has stunlocked you. If you were playing a kit that survived that, don't fret, it's turret spawned behind you through 3 walls and will be there to make sure you get rid of those 4 gels you didn't need in a stunlock induced chain revive.

I like goons. They're so dumb, it's like using a laser pointer on a cat.

I bet that phantom is sexy under the mask.  Heavy risk... but *impaled*

Mmm Cerberus ladies

we'll bang ok?

[Mordokai]

You forgot the Prime and it's 100% accurate stunlock cannon of doom curving around walls from across the map to stunlock you after its drone has already you. If you were playing a kit that survived that, don't fret, it's turret spawned behind you through 3 walls and will be there to make sure you get rid of those 4 gels you didn't need in a stunlock induced chain revive.

I like goons. They're so dumb, it's like using a laser pointer on a cat.

 

Still better than Collecturds. Watch that crab sync you totally on random, scion carpet bombing you around the corner with laser like precision and the captain downing you through both your gates.

 

God, I hate bugs. Even more than cheating toasters and cheating space nazis. And I'm totally playing Glacier/Cerberus/White next, just so I can blow some goons to hell with my lovely Valkyrie

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Liara. I could have liked her if they kept her hardened LotSB characterization, but she reverted to ME1!Liara whom I never liked.

 

Worst character in the series.

 

Runner-up is Feros ExoGeni VI, who first alerts the krogan bountyhunter to our squad's presence, then all he can say after we save his virtual ass from becoming actual dust is telling us that we're breaking the rules with our weapons. Little turd. Still better than Liara, though.

[MichaelN7]

If by "hate", you mean "favorite character to hate", then I would say the Illusive Man (TIM).

 

Partially because I find myself agreeing with him on a few things (The Council takes too long to act, Humanity needs to be self-sufficient, Humanity needs an answer to the various threats the galaxy throws at us, etc.) but the methods he uses are where that agreement ends.

 

I agree with the initial idea behind Cerberus.  There is a lot of scary crap out there that wants to kill us, or eat us, or both; so having a guardian of the Charon Relay (nice mythological bonus there) is something I can get behind.

Also, the Salarian Special Tasks Group (green), Asari commandos (purple), Turian Cabals (orange), and Krogan shock troops (red); they're the "face" of each races' military forces and go-to strategy.

So I agree that the Alliance (blue) needs a response to that, hence Cerberus (gold).

 

I like how, at least in ME2, you were the only group doing something about the Collectors.  While bureaucracy bogged down the Council and the Alliance, you were able to get in there and GET THINGS DONE.

As Miranda says: "We have an assignment, we can talk about it, or we can do it."

 

In addition, without Cerberus, the Normandy might never have been conceived.  We all know how pivotal that ship and her captain were in the Reaper War.

Their weapons I find to be among the best in the game, rivaled only by the N7 weapons.  Of course, how do we know that Cerberus didn't have a hand in those as well?

 

That said, the deceptive experiments (think: Overlord and Sanctuary) are too far.  I didn't feel bad about using the information gained from those abhorrent events, (except I'm NOT leaving David Archer, I'm freeing him whether you like it or not) because it's my way of making it so that there's at least a benefit to what was committed.

 

-------------

 

Some of my favorite non-combat parts of Mass Effect are when you are talking to TIM, and trying to persuade him (Paragon) to help you instead of trying to control the Reapers, Shepard's responses in that regard are very much like something I would say:

"Work with me then, give me control of your resources, and I'll stop them."

"You're doing exactly what the Reapers want!"

"You're indoctrinated, can't you see that?"

"Then do it!  End this, right now! ... They won't let you, will they?"

"It's not too late, we can stop this."

 

Heck, even some (Renegade) options sound like me:

"If you don't, every man, woman, and child is dead because of you."

"You're nothing more than the Reaper's puppet now."

"Humanity counted on you, and you failed them."

 

-------------

 

Regarding the Illusive Man himself, he is extremely intelligent (so am I), and is very persuasive (so am I).

The difference being that I don't manipulate people, so that's another "broken mirror" reflection.

I see the Illusive Man, and it's like looking at myself, if I were to become a villain.

That's part of why I like the ultimate (Paragon) persuasion at the very end...

 

Being able to convince the Illusive Man that he's indoctrinated and that he can fight it off, followed by the scene where he says "I'm sorry, Shepard, I tried..." *headshot*

That, for me, is a poignant moment.  You see that TIM as you've dealt with him prior wasn't fully him, so it's like meeting someone for the first time, only to see them cut down in an instant.  It makes me wonder what he would have done if he hadn't been indoctrinated, but it's also liberating, to see that "right makes might" and that TIM was finally freed from Reaper influence.

 

-------------

 

All together, I admire the Illusive Man's commitment, drive, and foresight, even as I despise his ruthlessness, his unwillingness to compromise, and superiority complex.

I "love to hate" this guy because I see so much of myself in him, but I also see how we are VERY different, so in a way it's like I'm talking with a different version of myself.  It makes for excellent role-playing and if nothing else, I freakin' LOVE the Eviscerator.

Seriously, armor-piercing (High Velocity Barrel), long-range (Smart Choke), flamethrower (Incendiary Ammo), explosive (also Incendiary Ammo) shotgun!

Oh, what would I do without that shotgun?  (most likely switch my Phalanx with the Talon, that's what, and then carry the Hurricane instead of a shotgun, but that's not the point!)

That, and TIM's office is something I would love to have for myself.

Good idea (at first), exceptional equipment, and nifty color scheme, it's almost perfect, except for the "EVIL" part.

 

The Illusive Man is the character I "hate" the most.

[SilvinC]

I can't say I really hate anyone but my least favorite characters are Kaidan, Garrus, Javik and Kai Leng.

[Natureguy85]

If you considered all the main characters in ME1 and applied them to the trilogy; each of them have varying degree of importance. 

 

To me, Tali is the major crucial narrating character in the trilogy with a consistent Synthetics-Organics conflict theme in the entire trilogy. Her personal arc starts from being a pilgrim kid who sacrificed everything to reach Citadel because she found incriminating evidence from a Geth that a Turian Spectre went rogue and nearly destroyed a human colony. Why would Tali go such length for a human colony? Especially an alien, Liara, Wrex and Garrus was all indifferent to humanity's plight but she's the only one who risk her life just to help the humans and expose a conspiracy. She could have just send the data to her father and let migrant fleet decide her cause of action. The heretics geth army are her people's responsibility. Her people created the geth and she's the sole person who actually stand up for her people and dealing with the consequences. 

 

In ME2, she's an older and experienced Geth specialist who do more actual scientist thing than Liara; data collection, sample collection. But the Synthetics/Organics theme conflict that drive her narrative again, Geth was involved in her personal conflicts repetitively, we see her grieving for her friends and her family. Shepard's actions by resolving the conflict between her and Legion was at the same time cemented hope that their people could work together.

 

In ME3, she changed so much in several months. As an Admiral, she pushed for peace with the Geth, considered Legion as her friend even though she still had her own reservation. Once peace was achieved, she became enlightened and had a hopeful outlook for the future. Her people have their home again and they gain a valuable ally and they were instrumental in supporting the war; evacuating the civilians and helping the resistance in reaper occupied territories. Like EDI and Shepard, the Quarians and the Geth are thematic significant, showing that Organics and Synthetics with free will, could work together in peace. Of all squad members, Tali's arcs across the trilogy itself is consistent. I'm not even a Talimancer but seeing the game narrative objectively, she's by far have the most involvement in the greater overarching storyline and that your past decisions do actually matter the most in her arcs.

 

 

Again, Tali can not be a major, crucial, narrating character because she could be dead or not around for the majority of the series. (note that I'm not saying Liara is either, because I already anticipate that response.)

You are right that Tali was related to the idea of Organics vs Synthetics, but you have to remember that this was not the main theme of the series until the Catalyst declared it so at the very end. It was, at most, a B-level plot line. You could point to several things that demonstrate it throughout the series, but not the main plot. The Reapers don't like the Geth any more than they like Organics. Then ME2 told us that the Reapers are cyborgs, not pure synthetics.

 

Tali felt her audio log was important because of Saren and the Reapers, not because of Eden Prime. This is evidenced by her going to the Citadel, not the Alliance, as well as the correspondence with the Shadow Broker. She doesn't want to go back to the fleet without a pilgrimage gift. She sticks around with Shepard because of the importance of the quest.

 

The rest is just you arguing that Tali gets a better character arc than Liara and there's no question you're right. Tali's shift in personality between ME1 and ME2 make sense simply as a character growing up and maturing a little bit. In ME1, she was basically a teenager, while in ME2, she's now a young adult woman. Liara has a massive character shift off screen and LotSB was needed for this to make even a little sense. Then Tali explains in ME2 why she has romantic feelings toward Shepard, even using things from the first game.

[Natureguy85]

I can't say the same thing with Liara. In fact nothing in Liara's narrative in the trilogy took account of your actions to her. Her presence with the confrontation against her mother is not required. Whether you pick her up very last or if didn't speak to her at all in ME1, she still have a big mighty crush on you and she still act like you're her best friend, you still get hugged by her upon meeting, she still become Shadow Broker whether you play LOTSB or not. Her role in retrieving Shepard's body only was acknowledged in the DLC and the comics. Even if you're indifferent to her and in love with another, the game still make it obvious that she had a big gigantic crush on you and the game did punish you especially if you romance someone else because how dare you to ignore her charms. If you do her Shadow Broker fetch quest, you get additional scene with her father where you have a choice to resolve her daddy's issue, which is still irrelevant btw. Post-Thessia, whether you care about the Asari or not, you always lose your cool, not because of Kai Leng taking Vandetta, its because Thessia was destroyed. You're sad and depressed because you promised a certain pretty alien girl that you will save her people and you failed her

 

Depending on your choices, you can have Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan, Tali and Garrus all varying degree of dead and neglect but you still have the exact same Liara's narrative in all playthroughs. The only thing that was made remotely important about her in the whole trilogy was how thick her plot armor was. Everyone else get simple dialogue branches and interrupts, she get the special requirement of at least a hundred hours worth of trilogy playthrough to get below 2000 EMS because its the only way to see her plot armor status getting destroyed by Harbinger.

 

Her LOTSB success and her massive fanbase was the reason why she was given expanded role without any justification of her plot armoring. 

 

In particular, I didn't feel she was that sincere about stopping the reaper and saving the galaxy. She's only interested in it because of Shepard, regardless of her romance status. Her personal motivation was paperthin and frankly, she is the most boring Shadow Broker. Aria, Miranda or even Kasumi could do a better job than her. Hell, she could have bribe the Citadel council and the Salarian and Asari government laundered all their dirty secrets just to gain their cooperation. Instead, the most renegade thing she did in her capacity as a SB was being b*tchy to Jack because Jack barely remember her.

 

As with Tali above, all you're arguing here is that Liara's importance was forced and not natural or organic from the story. Also as with the Tali arc, you're right, yet this is what we have to deal with.

 

I do like your idea of either Miranda or Aria as the Shadow Broker. It would give Aria something to do to show us that she's as awesome as she says she is instead of just sitting on couches complaining. Kasumi is too goofy for that role and just wants to stare at the graybox.

[Elhanan]

Loghain... er, Admiral Gerrel. If I did not need his ships.... *POW* *ZING* To the Moon, Alice!

[Vortex13]

Actually there is a reason for that, One I actually found funny sort of.

 

It was only created through practice that the Council itself deemed illegal, which is likely why it was never conceived of in any sort of official capacity, I mean it violates the law on genetic modification. So basically humanity cooked up a product that'd be illegal in Council Space, but is made legal due to its effectiveness, its akin to being the first dude to make Morphine out of Poppy.

 

Except that none of the other species would have really cared about legal sanctions, especially when it comes to research involving better medicinal aid; just look at the Asari and their Prothean relic, and the Salarians and their unofficial uplifts. If anything, its the Salarians that should have been the ones to invent Medi-gel seeing as how they are always conducting 'questionable' research into various scientific fields. 

 

But no, humans are able to invent a universal product that works even on species with a completely different biology; aliens that can't even eat the same types of food we do; and all this after humanity had just joined the galactic community and would have had practically zero experience compared to the other species when it comes to xeno-medicine.  

[countofhell]

TIM, Lawson, Leng.

 

The greatest loss for the Alliance and the Galaxy.  Cerberus knows how to ruin everything.

[Navasha]

Hate is an awfully strong word.    Not sure I hate any of them really.  

 

Dislike?   I definitely dislike Jacob the most.   He's comes off as completely unlikeable and the fact that the developers made it so the only way to have a conversation with him is through flirting makes it even worse.     I actually despise conversations with him.

[themikefest]

Now, let me present the case of ME3's Liara T'Soni.

Let me present to you ME2 Liara T'soni

When seeing her, Shepard gets a what-the-crap hug from the asari. Now if someone told that they would throw me in a volcano, I would want to avoid that person let alone hug that person. She will give information about Samara and Thane. If the player chooses, Shepard can help Liara with hacking terminals. And depending on what dialogue is chosen, Liara tells Shepard that she was the one to hand his/her body to Cerberus. Of course the player can avoid this by not going to see LIara at all and doesn't want to recruit Samara or Thane.

The broker dlc she tells you that she gave the body to Cerberus. Shepard can ask why. Liara will say "Was I suppose to let my friend die...." Where does this friend thing come from? If someone wanted to throw me in a volcano, I wouldn't consider that person a friend. And what's with the die thing? Its hard to save someone who is already dead.

Shepard isn't given the opportunity to ask if she told anyone. I would like to know why. At her apartment, Shepard's armor is seen in a glass case. I would like to know why?

After Vasir is killed, the player has 3 paragon interrupts when talking with Liara. I would've made it 3 renegade interrupts for a renegade playthrough

renegade interrupt #1
Shepard: Hold on. How about you tell me why you didn't tell anyone that you handed my body over to Cerberus
Liara: I...I....

renegade #2
Shepard: How about explaining why my armor is in your apartment?
Liara: ...I...I...

renegade #3
Shepard: If you don't answer those questions, I'll just leave and you can go after the shadow broker yourself
Liara: I....I...
Shepard: That's what I thought. You're suffering from cat-got-your-tongue syndrome. While you go see the doctor to get that fixed, I'm going back to your apartment to take my armor, then I will destroy it. One last thing, I don't ever want to see you again

That would fit nicely for a renegade, for me anyways.  If the interrupts are ignored, Shepard helps Liara on the broker ship.

When the broker throws his desk, what does Shepard do? For some reason the asari has to be protected. What about the ME2 character, especially if he/she is a LI? Is BioWare saying the asari is more important than Shepard's LI? I guess so. I know if I was Thane, Tali, Jacob, Jack, Garrus or Miranda, I would end the relationship since its clear that Shepard cares more about the asari. Too bad that wasn't in the dlc. It would make things interesting, especially in ME3.

The player has the option to invite Liara up to the Normandy. Once up there, she hands over Shepard's dogtags. Hackett gave them to her to give to Shepard. What guarantee did Hackett have that Shepard would see Liara? Why were they given to her instead of say, Mrs Shepard? How about Ashley/Kaidan if Shepard is in a romance with them? Why not Anderson?

Before she leaves, the player gets another what-the-crap hug. Why? After the broker was killed, the player has the option to hug her or not. Why couldn't that happen on the Normandy.

If I was to of romanced Liara, I would end the relationship because she made no attempt to let anyone know about my body and that she has my armor on display like its some kind of prize.

Its unfortunate Shepard can't ask any questions about things seen in the dlc to Liara. I would guess it was done to avoid any friction between her and Shepard. I don't know.
 

VS nearly died because they pushed her away in time

Too bad Ashley/Kaidan couldn't pull a Kai Leng. Throw LIara into the robot like Leng threw T'soni into a squadmate on Thessia.

[themikefest]

For someone who is a fan favourite character, Garrus is surprisingly very insignificant. He's the true optional squadmate whose existence hardly matters in the trilogy.

Yep

 

In ME3, the ME2 squadmates add more to the game even if its only war assets.

 

Its unfortunate that he has to be dead to not be on the Normandy in ME3. I would've added an option for Shepard to say yes or no to him. If Shepard says no, he stays on Menae helping his fellow turians fight.

[countofhell]

Hate is an awfully strong word.    Not sure I hate any of them really.  

 

Dislike?   I definitely dislike Jacob the most.   He's comes off as completely unlikeable and the fact that the developers made it so the only way to have a conversation with him is through flirting makes it even worse.     I actually despise conversations with him.

When Brynn comes in the picture his life got meaning. His loss and feeling for his father was too much for him, but he does not like to talk about that much, even tough he is too formal but very loyal and a good friend.

I like when Jack speaking of Jacob " he does not know himself ".

[Livi14]

If I recall it right, humanity was already a space-faring civilization in mid-21st century and occupied sol system and all the nearby planetary system even before the discovery of Prothean tech on Mars and the discovery of Charon relay in 2149. While the discovery on Mars may have advanced the science forward but that was near a full century without any help from alien technology. While the Citadel Council races was clearly older and more technologically advanced but they're quite culturally stagnant.

 

Humanity would've been stuck in the Sol system if they had not found the Prothean ruins on Mars. That's explicitely said in ME1. They found mass effect cores, several starships and refined element zero, no other race found something similar. According to Anderson it jump started human technology by hundreds of years. I hate the stupid humans are special trope, but humanity's role in galactic technology can be explained that way.

[themikefest]

Yes, Tali gave the evidence that got Shepard to be a Specter and that is important.

While that's true, another way could've be done to get evidence. Udina tell Shepard that there is reports of geth near feros before losing communications with the colony. Shepard heads to Feros. The mission is the same except Shepard brings Shiala back to the council to tell them what she told Shepard. Shepard becomes a spectre and the game continues forward without having Tali.
 

She found the Crucible (yes, it's also stupid, but again, there it is) which is plot relevant.

I wouldn't say she found the crucible. She found clues that led her to Mars that may have plans to deal with the reapers. When she said she discovered plans for a device, one that could wipeout the reapers, why didn't she download the plans to her omnitool?
 

and her mind-meld "gift" at Hammer FOB.

I wouldn't say that is significant. The player doesn't have to talk her at the fob, refuse the gift or she doesn't offer it to Shepard

[themikefest]

I hated Udina, but he served a purpose in the games so he's one of those "love to hate" kinda guys.

The guy was ok. Too bad Shepard couldn't shoot him in the shoulder or arm instaed of killing him.
 

I really hated Javik. It was so cool to finally get to meet a prothean, but then he had no helpful knowledge and he was an unlikable grump. I could have done without him.

I like him. He talks smack to Liara. That's good enough for me to like him. If I was the last of my species, I most likely act the same. I wouldn't care about anyone. I would only care about defeating the reapers.
 

And Jacob was my least favorite squad member.

I say he's the best squadmate in ME3 even though he wasn't part of Shepard's team in ME3. Why? If he's alive in ME3, he provides cover fire while Dr. Cole, not an ME3 squadmate, helps Shepard to safety.

[Natureguy85]

While that's true, another way could've be done to get evidence. Udina tell Shepard that there is reports of geth near feros before losing communications with the colony. Shepard heads to Feros. The mission is the same except Shepard brings Shiala back to the council to tell them what she told Shepard. Shepard becomes a spectre and the game continues forward without having Tali.

 

Yes, but we're talking about the plot. However, you do have a point that Feros didn't need Shepard's Specter status to push anything.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say she found the crucible. She found clues that led her to Mars that may have plans to deal with the reapers. When she said she discovered plans for a device, one that could wipeout the reapers, why didn't she download the plans to her omnitool?

 

That device was the crucible. Ok, she found the plans, not the thing itself.

As for the download, meh. It probably didn't seem necessary at the time and she may not have had permission, or whatever. It's not a big deal.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't say that is significant. The player doesn't have to talk her at the fob, refuse the gift or she doesn't offer it to Shepard

 

You might be right in an absolute sense, but we're making a comparison between her and other characters. It stands out as different. It might make sense if Liara was the LI, but I still got the weird "stars and flash" mind-meld when I romanced Tali in my one playthrough.

[themikefest]

That device was the crucible. Ok, she found the plans, not the thing itself.

As for the download, meh. It probably didn't seem necessary at the time and she may not have had permission, or whatever. It's not a big deal.

I am talking about the plans. Hackett gave her access to the achives. So she had permission. She's been on Mars at least a week.  As far as it not being necessary at the time. Yeah right. The reapers are heading to the galaxy, and she decides its not necessary to download the plans at the time. Had she of downloaded them, she could forward a copy to Hackett for his people to study while she continues to find more information.

[Natureguy85]

I am talking about the plans. Hackett gave her access to the achives. So she had permission. She's been on Mars at least a week.  As far as it not being necessary at the time. Yeah right. The reapers are heading to the galaxy, and she decides its not necessary to download the plans at the time. Had she of downloaded them, she could forward a copy to Hackett for his people to study while she continues to find more information.

 

That would be done from the facility equipment not her Omni tool. Access to search the archives doesn't equate permission to download copies onto other devices. I forget if she gives an excuse as to why she didn't already pass on the information, but that's a better question.

[themikefest]

That would be done from the facility equipment not her Omni tool.

What would? Her sending a copy to Hackett?

 

Access to search the archives doesn't equate permission to download copies onto other devices.

If Hackett got her access to the archives why couldn't she call him to get permission to download the information?
 

[Novak]

Gee I wonder why Bioware has started gathering game data directly... even though BSN requests and polls are all so reasonable....

 

I wouldn't overthink the whole Forced friendship thing with Liara or Garrus for that matter. Was never a fan of Garrus but really you never noticed the friendship if you didn't particularly paid attention to them.

I think it has more something to do with the whole player choice thing that they needed to force those because otherwise they wouldn't be able to have deep side characters and such, I really don't think there's nothing more to it.

 

Oh yea and one other thing. Someone said it's weird that in the Shadow Broker DLC Shep rushed to aid Liara instead of the squadmate which might be the current LI so it doesn't make sense. You know what else doesn't make sense? That Grunt gets knocked out like that.  

[sesheta255]

Pretty much all asari and quarians, with the exception of Kal Reegar.

 

Special mentions for Garrus (liked him in ME1 but disliked him in ME2 and 3), Starbrat, Udina, Kasumi, Ashley, Javik, and the Volus

[AVMERM]

Avina and its not even close......from the obnoxious voice to the ridiculous look......I'd rather talk AT a Keeper.

[Natureguy85]

What would? Her sending a copy to Hackett?

 

If Hackett got her access to the archives why couldn't she call him to get permission to download the information?
 

 

Yes.

 

She could, but that doesn't mean Hackett would grant it.