1249 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

Yeah, I didn't read it.

 

Yeah, I didn't read it either. I remember the forum reaction though, he was a big deal back then. But that was before the cereal killings.

[Quarian Master Race]

See, it isn't that drastic because, as I said, he's trying to convince himself as much as Shepard. If you're arguing that Shepard's agreement should have been able to strengthen his resolve and end the conflict right there, that's different. But this has been troubling Mordin for awhile. He tells you he has visited Tuchanka to see the results and had to do so spiritiual investigation and soul searching. In ME2 his argument is that the ends justify the means, but in ME3 he no longer believes that.

That said...

 

The fact that it has apparently been troubling him also doesn't fit with what he says immediately after the mission about salarian emotional processing.

Meh, if it fits his character for you I can't begrudge your interpretation given it fits the Paragon path. For me it doesn't make sense and it feels like yet another "Renegade" (read: teh evuls, at least according to Biower) set of choices/behaviors that was basically dumped into all but non-canon status by a later game (see Pro Cerberus/ anti-AI Shepard). His emotional "development" also makes his manner of thinking seem less "alien" and therefore less interesting too, IMO. I say this as someone whose favourite squadmate over the series is basically a wash between him and Tali (who probably edges it slightly because she can only be optionally derailed and ruined by a few certain choices in ME3, whereas Mordin's is mandatory unless you make specific choices throughout the series in order to redspeak some sense back into him).

 

 

I forget who first pointed it out to me since I didn't initially think about it, but you're right that Wrex only has control over the other Krogan because he hs the best plan for dealing with the Genophage. I guess some might argue that the Krogan will follow him as the hero who cured it or something, but I'm thinking plenty will take the opportunity to say "Screw you, buddy. We don't need you anymore."

Oh, someone will absolutely do that, there's practically no question. Look at humanity. Can you think of a single figure in history who is universally seen as a hero, and that all humans try to emulate? No. One person's Washington/Peter the Great is another person's Mao/Stalin. 

Krogan are even more individualistic and self concerned than humans. Hell, we already see Wrex getting challenged by his brother before we go through with the cure. The fact that the latter is eaten by a Thresher Maw in a scene done for comic relief doesn't change the fact that there are/ will be likely billions of krogan who think just like him, and Wrex won't be able to control them without adopting their methods (unrestricted breeding to support the war machine) which would necessitate expansionism. Regardless, everyone suffers, except maybe the turians and quarians, because they have no reason to compete for the same resources (though the krogan would probably go after at least the former out of historical spite).
 

The krogan species just has an utterly stupid design. 1000 kids per year per female that are insanely hard to kill and can live for at least 2000 years (Patriarch's a Rachni War veteran). What Mordin was saying is inevitable. Even if most krogan thought like Wrex/Eve it would still be inevitable, because they'd be out competeted and wiped out by the more warlike krogan.

The only thing that keeps them in check is that they aren't very smart on average compared to the other species, and therefore can be controlled by them through means like the Genophage.

Especially when Kirrahe was shown earlier to be badass/stupid by walking out into the open and blasting Cerberus mooks with his grenade pistol.

IMO Kirrahe was one of the biggest missed opportunities to be made into a cool companion/squadmate, along with Kal'Reegar. 
 

I had no idea what you were talking about, so I went and looked up the scene. I had no idea that this was a possibility, but then again Thane was alive in all my ME3 playthroughs, I agree with you and the last couple of post above. Thane and Tali's death scenes could have been done so much better and in a way that makes more sense. 

you needn't kill Thane, if you don't talk to him at the hospital he never shows up to save the Councilor. Then Kirrahe takes his place, or if he also isn't around (because died on Virmire) Leng is successful and manages to frame Shepard for the assasination, making talking down Ashley/Kaidan that much harder.

Of course, this means you also don't get the prayer scene with Kolyat in the hospital, which IMO is a good enough scene for me to justify slogging my way through the awful fight with Leng. He apparently dies during the same timeframe either way, seeing as you still get his memorial service in Citadel DLC.
 

 

 

Shepard chases him. Kirrahe dies, but Shepard asks Thane how bad is it. At this point, Thane could've redeemed himself by shooting Shepard in the gut saying "You tell me dumba**?

Whole post was fantastic but I was practically rolling on the floor at this .

[Linkenski]

I don't know, man. There's many good characters but very few really good ones in the first place. I think basically all the deepest characters are the ones Patrick wrote, like Tali and Mordin. Those two got the most complete arcs in the trilogy I feel. I wanted to like TIM so bad but they really botched him in 3, so...

 

And Shepard is out of the ques-- wait, no, at least with ME3 Shepard was easily the one I hated the most. He was playing a hero while saying things I constantly disagreed with whenever the option wasn't mine (and even then he made me wanna claw my face off) and he acts narcissistic when he fails that one time which is admittedly big, but he's still a self-absorbed moron who is only great because the plot forces him to be, while in terms of belivability I don't buy he would have half as much power or victory through his often asinine logic and emotional depravity.

[Natureguy85]

Shepard chases him. Kirrahe dies, but Shepard asks Thane how bad is it. At this point, Thane could've redeemed himself by shooting Shepard in the gut saying "You tell me dumba**?

 

[MelThorn]

After playing the trilogy over again recently, I realized that there are quite a few characters I didn't really care for. Originally I thought I liked Ashley the least... but I've found after multiple plays, I discovered that Jacob and Thane really annoy me.

 

Jacob for the fact that he seems kind of blank-slatey to me. He seems like a bland insert with copy-pasted "hero" traits. He always, always bored me, because there was nothing interesting about him. The most interesting he got was when I chose the renegade option for his loyalty mission. That at least gave him some character. Other than that, he seemed too generic. Like they were trying really hard to make him "not-aggressive" so that he wouldn't fit into a stereotype and ended up making someone boring in the process. Hell, I would have appreciated him if he got a little angry now and then. At least Mordin got upset with his choices and decisions now and then. He had depth, because he had regret. Jacob did nothing and regretted nothing. He was a typical "good guy" who could do no harm.

 

Thane... for the most part, he seems like a kick ass guy. And then on the other hand... those flashbacks ****** me off. They are so forced and trying-too-hard that it makes me grit my teeth whenever they happen, because it comes off as a desperate attempt to make the character come off as "deep", by using a writing shortcut. "How can we make this guy seem really deep?" is all I hear when he goes into those flashbacks. The same exact flaw was in Cole in DAI, and I freaking hated him too, for the exact same reason.

 

After saving my crew from the Collectors and talking to Kelly Chambers, she started doing the same ****! I was about ready to slap her when she got that entranced look on her face and started "flashing back to when the Collectors took her!" Can't anyone tell me what happened without acting like that? If Garrus started doing it, that'd be the end of our friendship right there.

 

The biggest disappointment of all... has to be Morinth. On my most recent playthrough, I killed Samara in favor of her to see what it was like (and I was a renegade). Morinth wasn't as pointless as someone like Allers, but she was pretty damn pointless. Within seconds of saving her, she basically said, "Look, I can change my voice to mimic my mother, and now no one will know it's really her daughter." So basically, nothing changed whatsoever. It was literally as though Samara never died. Even when you talk to Morinth on the Normandy, she has a brief conversation with you once, and no more. There is no point whatsoever in killing Samara, because Morinth will just become her.

 

I really have to ask... would any of the crew question Shepard's actions if he told them the truth? Why does she need to "disguise herself" at all? TIM made it pretty clear that Shepard was in charge and was responsible for his own choices. People like Garrus have seen Shepard make really tough choices in the past, and would understand if he explained it (as he as also done in the past). Shepard can pretty much talk his way through any situation, so this premise was just kind of stupid. It actually made me laugh with how ridiculous it was. I could picture my renegade Shepard thinking "why do I have to keep this crap a secret? It's my ship, and I can do what I want on it."

 

It was just an excuse to use the same recordings and same lines from the same actor so they wouldn't have to pay two people for the same lines. It was lazy and shoddy, and I was actually looking forward to getting to know Morinth more, because she actually did seem fascinating, despite being evil. I then thought, "Okay, maybe she's in Mass Effect 3!"

 

No, she just sends you a short letter and disappears. So basically, don't ever kill Samara unless you really want renegade points, because nothing changes whatsoever. I feel a little cheated. Guess that's what I deserve for being a renegade this time around.

[ui876will]

Hate - None

 

But there are indeed some characters that I dislike,and here is the list.

 

1 - Aria T'Loak

2 - Kai Lame

3 - Morinth

4 - Renegade Shepard

5 - Wreav

6 - Miranda

7 - Udina

8 - Ashley

9 - Henry Lawson

10 - Jacob Taylor

 

Honorable Mention - Liara T'Soni

[EpicNewb]

Didn't like Liara even though my Shep banged her

 

Wasn't really a fan of Ashley either.  She did make a dramatic improvement by the time ME3 comes rolling around.  Ash is no longer the annoying pushy girl.  She matured finely into a woman.

[Seraphim24]

Hate - None

 

But there are indeed some characters that I dislike,and here is the list.

 

1 - Aria T'Loak

2 - Kai Lame

3 - Morinth

4 - Renegade Shepard

5 - Wreav

6 - Miranda

7 - Udina

8 - Ashley

9 - Henry Lawson

10 - Jacob Taylor

 

Honorable Mention - Liara T'Soni

 

Pretty much this except minus Ashley. They started flooding ME with all the cheap villain stereotypes and corrupt politicians and stuff somewhere around ME2

 

I thought Morinth was a particularly insanely bad character to be honest.

[DuskWanderer]

Of the squadmates, I'd have to say Liara T'Soni. I try not to hold the first game against her, because ME was new and they needed to really iron things out. But seriously, she felt like an optional character. She had a link to Benezia, but I could take out Benezia without her being there (or even having recruited her yet), and for some reason, she needed to be obtained, even when there was no point. 

 

I also didn't interact with her. At first, it was because I couldn't find her on the ship, but I also thought her dialogue was really bad when I actually did find her. All of a sudden, my MaleShep is having a quarrel between Ashley and Liara. my FemShep is having it with Kaidan too. I had no interest in this chick, and somehow, they got the idea that I wanted to shtup her? 

 

I just thought it was a bug at first. I could ignore her and move to the second game. I didn't ask about her like when I asked about the other characters, and when I heard I had to talk to her on Illium, my response was: "Okay, let's just get this over with."

 

Her dialogue in trying to sound tough was forced, but then I hugged her. What? I had no personal relationship with this lady, why am I hugging her? 

 

Then came Lair of the Shadow Broker. For a story that was supposed to be about the squaddies, they didn't even say a word. I just had to keep talking endlessly about how awesome Liara was, when I was really getting the opinion that she was a crazy stalker. So I read the comic with her in it in the hopes that I could understand it, but I realized the more I read it, the more she came off as deranged. But it did tell me something: Liara knew Shepard would be revived by Cerberus. Okay. So, why the hell didn't Ashley/Kaidan know about it? Why didn't Garrus? Tali? She kept that too herself, and it put the characters I did like through hell. 

 

By the third game, I was done with her. I played with Kaidan just so I'd have some to biotic out with my bro Javik (Bro-otic? Does that sound like the bastard fruit flavor to Tupari to anyone else) and I never used her until I had to, and I tried to skip as much as possible. To summarize: Don't force the player to like a character they meet over the game, especially when it doesn't matter to the plot how they feel. I thought Liara was a spy at first, then I thought she was deranged. But instead, I got a forced bestie. 

 

 

Second, I'd suggest Urdnot Wrex. The game is so much better if you off him on Virmire, and that could've made him one of the strongest character personalities in the game. In the first game, he was awesome: A deluded egomaniac willing to put the entire galaxy at risk just for something he feels that strongly about. I gun him down without hesitation, but it made for an excellent scene.

 

But then, the second and especially third game came around, and everything about Wrex turned into a gigantic cliche. The krogan were so oppressed and it was wrong, and the salarians are being racist and the krogan will abandon things just because Dinosaur Jesus says so. The fact that everyone complains about how "things would be better if Wrex was alive" when the story is so much better when he dies just makes things annoying. I never get a chance to criticize him for his poor decision making, how he ruins what looks like an easy mission for his paranoia. Instead, I have to threaten my allies because Dinosaur Jesus's feelings were hurt. 

[Vortex13]

Second, I'd suggest Urdnot Wrex. The game is so much better if you off him on Virmire, and that could've made him one of the strongest character personalities in the game. In the first game, he was awesome: A deluded egomaniac willing to put the entire galaxy at risk just for something he feels that strongly about. I gun him down without hesitation, but it made for an excellent scene.

 

But then, the second and especially third game came around, and everything about Wrex turned into a gigantic cliche. The krogan were so oppressed and it was wrong, and the salarians are being racist and the krogan will abandon things just because Dinosaur Jesus says so. The fact that everyone complains about how "things would be better if Wrex was alive" when the story is so much better when he dies just makes things annoying. I never get a chance to criticize him for his poor decision making, how he ruins what looks like an easy mission for his paranoia. Instead, I have to threaten my allies because Dinosaur Jesus's feelings were hurt. 

 

 

This.

 

Though at least ME 2 Wrex was trying to lead the Krogan into being something stronger despite the Genophage, into rising above their plight on their own terms. ME 3 Wrex immediately does a 180 and starts demanding handouts for the Krogan, and expecting everyone else to pay reprimand to his repressed people.

 

I also disliked how Shepard, even a Renegade playthrough, couldn't call Wrex out on his actions. Decisions that could have easily cost everyone everything at the hands of the Reapers since the galaxy was forced to go running around, playing doctor, before Wrex would even consider lending support to the war effort; support that he promised us "no strings attached" in ME 2 by the way.  The fact that the Salarians/Pro-Genophage didn't get any balanced screen time, save for being the narrative punching bag was just an afterthought really.

 

 

 

Personally, I would have liked to see a scenario wherein the Rachni Queen's forces weren't wiped out off camera (if you spared her) and the player had a choice to use the Rachni or the Krogan as the galaxy's ground forces. I would have loved to see Wrex's reaction to Shepard going with the Rachni; the species that actually lived up to its promises concerning unmitigated support against the Reapers. At the very least it would have been satisfying to see the wind taken out of his sails, and have him actually coincide to start working with the rest of the galaxy without demanding concessions first.

[KaiserShep]

I dunno. In Wrex's position, I'd probably demand the cure too. Really, it's Mordin's fault anyway. He basically handed Wrex juicy intel on a silver platter. If it wasn't for the pro-cure salarian betraying the STG and leaking its secrets, it's not likely that the Urdnot clan leader would even demand the cure in the first place, given how unlikely it would've seemed to get one otherwise. When you really think about it, it's the perfect time to ask for one too. You can be damn sure no one would take such a request seriously during peacetime. 

[liclic]

My most hated guy is 1 Conrad Verner. He is present in the three opus and is just crap completly there for filling the space.

Then, I really dislike how 2 Kai Leng had been created. Where Henry Lawson and the Elusive Man were detailed (hmmm for Henry Lawson it can be discussed), Kai Leng was only created for the last opus.

I daresay I disliked the plane character of 3 (partial) Liara T'soni in the first opus (and even the character design) whereas in the second and third opus she became one of my two prefered characters with the other doctor of the crew (Mordin Solus). To my point of view, Liara was the character Bioware worked on the most and the deepest.

4 the Elusive Man and how he didn't understand how he was tricked and deceipt by his ambition.

5 Wreav (I really liked when Wrex ditches him in the third opus when Wreav dies with Kalross).

6 and 6' The character design of both James Vega and Jacob Taylor. The latter is the character I always miss the name. At least, both have cool moments in the third opus.

7 all admirals of the quarrian fleet except Raan and Tali. They were too stupid to understand that not finding a peacefull solution to their conflict was the best way to make the fleet in danger...

8 the character design of the shadow brocker : honorable mention.

[KaiserShep]

7 all admirals of the quarrian fleet except Raan and Tali. They were too stupid to understand that not finding a peacefull solution to their conflict was the best way to make the fleet in danger...

 

 

That's strange, because even Tali and Raan leaned more toward wiping out the geth. Tali softened up to this a bit if you keep Legion around, but before Rannoch's climax, she would have preferred simply eradicating the geth. The only quarian admiral that favored peace from the very beginning was Koris. 

[Steelcan]

I dunno. In Wrex's position, I'd probably demand the cure too. Really, it's Mordin's fault anyway. He basically handed Wrex juicy intel on a silver platter. If it wasn't for the pro-cure salarian betraying the STG and leaking its secrets, it's not likely that the Urdnot clan leader would even demand the cure in the first place, given how unlikely it would've seemed to get one otherwise. When you really think about it, it's the perfect time to ask for one too. You can be damn sure no one would take such a request seriously during peacetime. 

its inconsistent with his portrayal in ME2 though.

 

If he demanded a cure he should have made it available only to his own and allied clans, not all krogan everywhere.

[KaiserShep]

its inconsistent with his portrayal in ME2 though.

 

If he demanded a cure he should have made it available only to his own and allied clans, not all krogan everywhere.

 

 

But would he be able to get other clans to commit forces to Palaven? 

[Steelcan]

But would he be able to get other clans to commit forces to Palaven? 

if doing so means they get access to the cure?

 

I could see that working pretty well

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

But would he be able to get other clans to commit forces to Palaven?

He could have used the cure as leverage in that scenario.

[ShallowlLife9871]

Liara.

 

at first, she simply annoyed me. her consent fainting, the mind meld thing. and how she seamed to fall in love with my Shepard out of no where.

then there is her involvement in ME2. .. and how she gave Shepard's body to Cerberus. ... because she couldn't let Shepard 'go'. this makes me believe she isn't a emotionally healthy person. she couldn't grieve normally.  even for someone who may or may not have even liked/loved her. also, nearly everything in her apartment is mostly Shepard related. nothing personal. nothing of her childhood. her whole apartment is a huge Shepard shrine.

 

but the final straw was... ME3. and being forced to take her to theisa.  the whole time, she couldn't keep her mind focused on the mission. even Kaidan, who most people see as a whiner, { I don't} was telling her to keep it together. I was gritting my teeth though the whole thing.

 

I could also mention her plot armour, the force friendship and how you can only kill her if you pretty much F#*k up the ENITRE GAME.

 

oh and her cameo in Paragon Lost brings into question a LOT of continuity errors that I won't get into.

 

there are other charcters I don't like, but in tearms of hate. I want to see that blue ****** burn

[Thermopylae]

My most hated guy is 1 Conrad Verner. He is present in the three opus and is just crap completly there for filling the space.

Then, I really dislike how 2 Kai Leng had been created. Where Henry Lawson and the Elusive Man were detailed (hmmm for Henry Lawson it can be discussed), Kai Leng was only created for the last opus.

I daresay I disliked the plane character of 3 (partial) Liara T'soni in the first opus (and even the character design) whereas in the second and third opus she became one of my two prefered characters with the other doctor of the crew (Mordin Solus). To my point of view, Liara was the character Bioware worked on the most and the deepest.

 

 

I actually liked Conrad Verner as a character, because he is supposed to be disliked. The character is an analogy of all the "fans" of the characters and emphasizes the difference between the reality vs the myth. Also his character development, or mal-development over the trilogy is interesting.

 

(Shallowlife 9871) I liked Liara, but will not waste my time being a white knight, aside from this statement, you are welcome to your opinion and I accept its validity but equally, I am sure the internet will take care of you sir. 

[DeathScepter]

And put Conrad Verner as the Shadow Broker.

 

 

believe it or not, I do think that he would make a better shadow broker than Liara....................

[Quarian Master Race]

That's strange, because even Tali and Raan leaned more toward wiping out the geth. Tali softened up to this a bit if you keep Legion around, but before Rannoch's climax, she would have preferred simply eradicating the geth. The only quarian admiral that favored peace from the very beginning was Koris. 

Nevermind that everyone seems to put the onus for coexistence solely on the quarians and call them "stupid" for not going out of their way to sue for peace, when the geth never make any attempts to communicate their intentions after the bullets start flying, and have been actively murdering every organic (except Saren) that tries to contact them for 3 centuries straight, peace envoys included (according to Revelation).

 

Instead, when they finally do send a diplomat, it inexplicably goes to the humans, and not even their government, but a terrorist cell that has literally no authority (and whose parent organization has attacked and is essentially in a state of war against the Migrant Fleet). If anyone is dumb, it's the geth for not simply sending the admiralty an E-Mail or posting on Admiral Raan's Twitter feed that they don't actually care all that much about Rannoch, and that the quarians can have it back if they don't come in shooting. What harm could it possibly do? At worst the quarians reject the notion and end up doing exactly the same thing they were already going to do. More likely it starts a dialogue and averts a war.

 

Instead, no one ever talks to anyone about anything of importance and we get a big dumb idiot plot that has to be ended by Shep shouting at everyone what the geth or even Admiral Idiot (Tali, post ME2) could have just made clear in the first place.

[SilvinC]

Javik
Kaidan
Udina
Kai Leng
Han'Gerrel
Henry Lawson
Dr. Archer
Wreav
Samantha Traynor
Garrus

[Dalinne]

That's strange, because even Tali and Raan leaned more toward wiping out the geth. Tali softened up to this a bit if you keep Legion around, but before Rannoch's climax, she would have preferred simply eradicating the geth. The only quarian admiral that favored peace from the very beginning was Koris. 

Koris is great, even when you meet him in the second game you can't fully appreciated him as a politician (for a good reason: using my sis as a scape goat for your agenda will not assure my sympathy, sir).

[10K]

[Ahriman]

Liara.

 

at first, she simply annoyed me. her consent fainting, the mind meld thing. and how she seamed to fall in love with my Shepard out of no where.

then there is her involvement in ME2. .. and how she gave Shepard's body to Cerberus. ... because she couldn't let Shepard 'go'. this makes me believe she isn't a emotionally healthy person. she couldn't grieve normally.  even for someone who may or may not have even liked/loved her. also, nearly everything in her apartment is mostly Shepard related. nothing personal. nothing of her childhood. her whole apartment is a huge Shepard shrine.

I'm personally okay with character being a total creep, but for some reason writers constantly tried to portray her as "loyal friend" while making her act like well-educated and invincible Verner, which gave me more dissonance with each game.