382 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

It depends upon the circumstances and the world they're trying to create. We don't live in a perfect world, so why should games not be representative of that fact? Take The Witcher series, for example. If we use Rape as the example, it never glorifies it but it does acknowledge that it takes place, especially in the third game within the context of an occupying force. Rape was, and still is in certain regions of the world, used as a tool of war by certain parties.

Call me curious - did the victims include males or was it confined to females?
 

<<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

And that added what to the game? Conversely, if it was omitted, would you feel the game lacked "something"?

That's an excellent question.

Was it somehow important to the story that the females be sexually violated, or would being abused and brutalized in non-sexual ways have sufficed?
 

As I said way back at the beginning: This is an Envy demon, not a Desire demon. It wanted to become the Inquisitor, not seduce or trick him/her.

Bioware generally promotes a sex-positive sort of atmosphere. Using sex as a weapon against the main character could negate that.

[9TailsFox]

Neither does she, or people like her.

 

They say they want a female version of link, so they are given Linkle. Linkle is bad because she falls under the "Miss Male" trope, despite that being just what they asked for. Linkle's thighs are exposed, so sexualisation is a big concern as well, even though anyone familiar with TLoZ history knows that Link has worn short shorts countless times. More importantly however, that isn't what people who said they wanted "a female Link" actually wanted. They wanted THE Link to just be turned into a woman outright, because reasons.

 

This is the problem with kowtowing to these trust fund extremists. Nothing will ever be good enough, give them everything they wanted and there will still be a thousand things that make it "problematic," why? Because to quote our good friend St Anita- "Everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out."

I would like to see reaction if female superhero's would have same clothes as male.

 

Oh wait. Spider women character based of speed and agility so sexualised man would never be put in same position.

[The Hierophant]

Neither does she, or people like her.

 

They say they want a female version of link, so they are given Linkle. Linkle is bad because she falls under the "Miss Male" trope, despite that being just what they asked for. Linkle's thighs are exposed, so sexualisation is a big concern as well, even though anyone familiar with TLoZ history knows that Link has worn short shorts countless times. More importantly however, that isn't what people who said they wanted "a female Link" actually wanted. They wanted THE Link to just be turned into a woman outright, because reasons.

 

This is the problem with kowtowing to these trust fund extremists. Nothing will ever be good enough, give them everything they wanted and there will still be a thousand things that make it "problematic," why? Because to quote our good friend St Anita- "Everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out."

They're hypocrites. You can never appease these type of people.

 

http://imgur.com/ixM4r4l

[X Equestris]

The Envy demon trying to seduce the Not-Inquisitor-Yet doesn't mesh with its motus operandi. Had the enemy been a Desire Demon, the scene would have made sense and removing it would have been puzzling; after all, it seems to me that to a Desire Demon, questionable consent would be a quaint but irrelevant mortal concept as we see with the one that puts the Templar in its thrall in Kinloch Hold. But Envy wants to become someone, to replace them fully. I fail to see how incarnating Leliana in order to seduce the PC achieves that goal.

The seduction wasn't the main goal, from what I've heard of the draft. The Herald's responses to the earlier questions were, so it can mimic them. The offer of sex, which as I understand it could have been refused, was just another way to gauge character, based on what little of this draft we know of. No matter what you'd choose, the Envy demon would know a little more about you.

[o Ventus]

Yes I live in the United States, and yes it is like that, all the time.

 

Sex is taboo, period. Yes it's also the land of tindr and all that but amusingly most people use it basically like a dating system. Someone will talk abou being a "freak" and make a kissy face in their instagram file, but mostly these peolejust want to (guys and girls) knit and play with the cats at home like grandma, saving themselves for marriage or at least for that ever-elusive right moment, which, has a habit of never really actually coming until months or years later..

 

America is definitely a league leader in trying to portray themselves as sexually vivacious, and some people believe it, sure, but the vast majority of Americans expect sex to be part of an extremely ritualized, abstinence oriented, process.

 

Obviously, like I said, there are exceptions, a fair amount perhaps in some ways, where people view sex as a positive and empowering experience, but not the majority.

 

 

I guess you live in the Twilight Zone then, because nowhere is it actually like that anywhere here other than maybe the Bible Belt.

 

Not to mention that you sound like an absolute idiot by making sweeping generalizations and saying "the vast majority of Americans..."

[o Ventus]

Neither does she, or people like her.

 

They say they want a female version of link, so they are given Linkle. Linkle is bad because she falls under the "Miss Male" trope, despite that being just what they asked for. Linkle's thighs are exposed, so sexualisation is a big concern as well, even though anyone familiar with TLoZ history knows that Link has worn short shorts countless times. More importantly however, that isn't what people who said they wanted "a female Link" actually wanted. They wanted THE Link to just be turned into a woman outright, because reasons.

 

This is the problem with kowtowing to these trust fund extremists. Nothing will ever be good enough, give them everything they wanted and there will still be a thousand things that make it "problematic," why? Because to quote our good friend St Anita- "Everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out."

 

This, plus the endless Kafka-trapping, which ties in to your point here. Anita and co. accuse the industry of institutional sexism and misogyny and whatever, a bunch of people take offense with this (because as it turns out, having your hobby insulted and being labeled a hate-monger is not something people particularly like), and then Anita and co. take these objections as proof of sexism and misogyny. So people concede and give them the exact thing they want (a female Link in this case), and then Anita and co. turn around and say "yeah, but it's not what I specifically envisioned, so it's not good enough".

 

I completely and utterly detest these kinds of people.

[General TSAR]

I have no complaints about it. My City Elf was badass. It was no different than Kill Bill.

 

To Anita, it's still not good enough. I don't know what she wants.

Attention, control and money.

 

Fortunately, her complaints about doom being violent, moaning about Dishonored having a choice between a male and female protagonist, and crying to the UN about the internet being mean to her turned off a lot of people.

[Ieldra]

There is absolutely no way to know that without being there when they took that decision, however. That kind of attitude rubs me the wrong way honestly. Are we so intent on wanting sex, gore, rape and other ''mature'' content that when it's not there, we gotta dig for a hidden motive or self-censorship in order to explain that?

Of course not. Sometimes you do notice something should be there but isn't, though, for instance if a community is supposed to be racist or sexist and that never shows, it's all an informed attribute, or - as in the case of DAI - it is very noticeable that really nothing of a place's social reality that could make people feel uncomfortable is ever a topic, except in the remotest possible way.

 

I don't want a story to wallow in these things, but neither do I want it to avoid them as a matter of principle.

[KainD]

People are not justified in being offended at all unless the story itself appears to take up the viewpoint of the offender. 

 

Why is that an exception? 

[o Ventus]

Attention, control and money.

 

Fortunately, her complaints about doom being violent, moaning about Dishonored having a choice between a male and female protagonist, and crying to the UN about the internet being mean to her turned off a lot of people.

 

Not nearly enough people, seeing that she got nearly a half-million (in USD) in 2014. I don't know what her earning figures are for this year.

[o Ventus]

All right Mr. Servo, indulge me as to how a country which worships at the altar of abstinence, supports and promotes chastity in all it's form and as an embrace of the themes of marriage and the white sheet over the body approach to sex, indoctrinates it's people into the importance of sexual restraint, lives entirely on the basis of the notion that there is no pleasure but that which is obtained through extreme physical labor or something close to that, and only as a temporary reward to be constantly teased and abated, which has virtually no presence or treatment of sex in any of it's modern media, which discourages things which preclude moving outside the norm on matters of the body and sex as a general rule, has very little interaction with any opposing viewpoints on just about anything about anything sexual ever because as has been stated it's all treated as taboo, has never not elected a Christian president, has never even considered electing anyone that didn't worship the Bible and it's respective treatment of sexuality, discusses virtually nothing else other than pregnancy and the possibility of becoming a mother or father in that rare instance of an actual sexual experience..

 

isn't well.. all that?

 

Literally not a single one of these things happens in the United States unless you live in a fundamentalist community, which make up an extreme minority of an already small section of the country.

 

Also, Thomas Jefferson, our 2nd President, was not Christian. He was a spiritual theist, but not Christian. His opinion on the Bible and its teachings are known to be mixed. He neither follows it nor condemns it. So much for "has never elected a non-Christian President".

 

If you really do live in the United States like you claim (which I doubt, because nobody who lives here would be so incredibly factually wrong about their own country), it's people like you who give us a bad name with the nonstop idiocy you spout.

 

Because a country that produces such puritanical figures like Miley Cyrus, Kim Kardashian, and Paris Hilton is shy about sex. A country that is the majority producer of the world's pornography is shy about sex. A country that is the home of the company that makes Fleshlight sex toys is shy about sex.

 

How do you even breathe?

[Seraphim24]

I guess you live in the Twilight Zone then, because nowhere is it actually like that anywhere here other than maybe the Bible Belt.

 

Not to mention that you sound like an absolute idiot by making sweeping generalizations and saying "the vast majority of Americans..."

 

I can't help you see the things which you don't see for yourself, so.... yeah.

 

On a side note that "absolute idiot" comment was really totally unnecessary and uncalled for, thankfully I'm used to seeing that kind of thing a lot on this BSN forum place, can't believe they just let those comments sit around.. not to mention inaccurate since I stated... ugh nevermind.

 

Edit: Wow we both posted at the same time, ok let me try and read this.

 

Ok that's just more rage, please I encourage you to take a break or relax or something, and yes I do live in the US, I'm not going to go on about this topic though, certainly not in this manner, and wasn't really planning on trying to go on about it in general.

 

Here I'll go first, and see if that takes. Thomas Jefferson is not anymore of a "President" than Andrew Jackson or Grover Cleveland or TR Roosevelt, the American office of President is basically just a holding area it doesn't function to really promote or direct any particular purpose other than to maintain the status quo, it's mostly ceremonial.

 

The only reason we had one at all is because Alexander Hamilton got to slide in some actual political doctrine because the Articles of Confederation failed beyond all rational possibilities.

 

In short, it doesn't matter what any American President says or believes, the practical effect of that will be to maintain the status quo, and what is the status quo? It is Christainity, or you can even call it spiritual theism, but whatever it is, it emphasizes chastity and rare sexual experience, it says pleasure is bad inherently, it doesn't have to be tied to religion or Christainity in general.

 

That said, in everything official concering the US it's sworn before the Christian god, that includes lawyers, judges, politicans (Billy Graham used to always do the swearing in ceremony), and just about everything I can think of at the moment.

[o Ventus]

I can't help you see the things which you don't see for yourself, so.... yeah.

 

On a side note that "absolute idiot" comment was really totally unnecessary and uncalled for, thankfully I'm used to seeing that kind of thing a lot on this BSN forum place, can't believe they just let those comments st around.. not to mention inaccurate since I stated... ugh nevermind.

 

Edit: Wow we both posted at the same time, ok let me try and read this.

 

Ok that's just more rage, please I encourage you to take a break or relax or something, and yes I do live in the US, I'm not going to go on about this topic though, certainly not in this manner. 

 

You haven't posted 1 single factual statement in this entire conversation, you just make assertions and then leave them as-is. If your points had merit you could back them up, but they don't, so you don't bother, instead you just backpedal like this with your tail between your legs.

 

"Uncalled for"? You're claiming to speak for a nation made up of close to 350 million people. Not only this, but you're flat-out wrong with the things you're saying. What else would you sound like if not an idiot?

 

If you're seeing comments like this a lot around here, then you may want to consider examining why you see those comments. Surely it can't just be that you're saying a lot of really dumb s***, right? The only common denominator here is you.

 

Kek, "rage". It's not rage, it's being blunt. You're getting defensive and pretending that I'm attacking you when I'm not, and then complaining about my own complaining. At least try and pretend to have a productive discussion here instead of posting non-sequiturs.

[Master Warder Z_]

Literally not a single one of these things happens in the United States unless you live in a fundamentalist community, which make up an extreme minority of an already small section of the country.

 

What are they the...amish or mennonite or something?

 

I though they didn't believe in technology that was invented after the civil war or something, neo luddism or something to that effect. 

 

My question here is like...how is there electricity to run a computer in a community there?

[Seraphim24]

You haven't posted 1 single factual statement in this entire conversation, you just make assertions and then leave them as-is. If your points had merit you could back them up, but they don't, so you don't bother, instead you just backpedal like this with your tail between your legs.

 

"Uncalled for"? You're claiming to speak for a nation made up of close to 350 million people. Not only this, but you're flat-out wrong with the things you're saying. What else would you sound like if not an idiot?

 

If you're seeing comments like this a lot around here, then you may want to consider examining why you see those comments. Surely it can't just be that you're saying a lot of really dumb s***, right? The only common denominator here is you.

 

Kek, "rage". It's not rage, it's being blunt. You're getting defensive and pretending that I'm attacking you when I'm not, and then complaining about my own complaining. At least try and pretend to have a productive discussion here instead of posting non-sequiturs.

 

Nevermind.

[Ieldra]

Why is that an exception? 

If the story itself speaks, it's a message to the player, and if that's a racist message, for instance, a targeted player will be offended with justification. If it's just characters doing stuff to each other, *in* the story rather than *as* the story, then this is not the case. Not that a story is obliged to be considerate in any case, but I won't call the player oversensitive in the former case if they take exception.

[Master Warder Z_]

If the story itself speaks, it's a message to the player, and if that's a racist message, for instance, a targeted player will be offended with justification. If it's just characters doing stuff to each other, *in* the story rather than *as* the story, then this is not the case. Not that a story is obliged to be considerate in any case, but I won't call the player oversensitive in the former case if they take exception.

 

I would.

[KainD]

WTF.. clearly your communities are different and you have different opinions and personal facts to support said opinions. Once again US is BIG. 

[FKA_Servo]

Here I'll go first, and see if that takes. Thomas Jefferson is not anymore of a "President" than Andrew Jackson or Grover Cleveland or TR Roosevelt, the American office of President is basically just a holding area it doesn't function to really promote or direct any particular purpose other than to maintain the status quo, it's mostly ceremonial.

 

The only reason we had one at all is because Alexander Hamilton got to slide in some actual political doctrine because the Articles of Confederation failed beyond all rational possibilities.

 

In short, it doesn't matter what any American President says or believes, the practical effect of that will be to maintain the status quo, and what is the status quo? It is Christainity, or you can even call it spiritual theism, but whatever it is, it emphasizes chastity and rare sexual experience, it says pleasure is bad inherently, it doesn't have to be tied to religion or Christainity in general.

 

This is an inaccurate statement.

 

However, considering the poor grasp of history and politics and overall cluelessness exhibited in your posts, I'm convinced you are, in fact, an American.

[Master Warder Z_]

This is an inaccurate statement. However, considering the poor grasp of history and politics and overall cluelessness exhibited in your posts, I'm convinced you are, in fact, an American.

 

*snorts* Because education is so much better elsewhere.

[Seraphim24]

WTF.. clearly your communities are different and you have different opinions and personal facts to support said opinions. Once again US is BIG. 

 

Like I said in my edit post, I pointed out all the examples, everything official in the US is like I said, sworn before Christian god or higher power or whatever, I could go on, but honestly, why does it even matter so much here?

 

The thing is I don't even understand why this is controversial, pretty much everyone I know, inside and outside of the US, pretty much regards the USA as a Christian or at least spiritually commited to some kind of sexual chastity. I mean it's in every movie and so on, my mom really likes Pride and Prejudice it's everywhere it's pretty hard not to to notice it...

[o Ventus]

What are they the...amish or mennonite or something?

 

I though they didn't believe in technology that was invented after the civil war or something, neo luddism or something to that effect. 

 

My question here is like...how is there electricity to run a computer in a community there?

 

That's somewhat of a misconception. There are a number of Amish communities that utilize modern technology, albeit a limited selection. Plenty of them refuse to use technology, but not all of them do. In fact, motorized washing machines and things like power tools are some of the most common things you can find on Amish property. At least one Amish community uses tractors to help in farming. 

 

edit: Of course since "Amish" is a glorified religious designation, there are a lot of different Amish communities with their own rules. Some are more conservative and traditional than others, some are more open and modern.

[FKA_Servo]

*snorts* Because education is so much better elsewhere.

 

I'm an American.

 

Overall, our rates RE civic knowledge and participation aren't exactly noteworthy.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's somewhat of a misconception. There are a number of Amish communities that utilize modern technology, albeit a limited selection. Plenty of them refuse to use technology, but not all of them do. In fact, motorized washing machines and things like power tools are some of the most common things you can find on Amish property. At least one Amish community uses tractors to help in farming.

 

Huh, well I live currently in middle Tennessee there are a few communities further to the west and one I know of to the north, and thinking back I do recall powered farming equipment.  No electricity though, gas operated stuff like chainsaws and a thresher yes.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm an American.

 

Overall, our rates RE civic knowledge and participation aren't exactly noteworthy.

 

Beats a lot of other places though, like a good sixty percent of the world.

 

So sure, public education may not be all that great, but at least its first world public education.