382 réponses à ce sujet

[X Equestris]

They didn't actually drop it because of that, I saw Gaider explicitely state that in an interview. According to him, the issue was raised and they were thinking about otherways to do it, as not having Leliana hit on the Inquisitor is actually a relatively easy solution, but they couldn't get the fake Haven really work due to other issues with the story. However, once that interview was given, somehow mystically the running narrative became that the scene was dropped because of the Leliana thing which was not true.

I've never heard of that interview. The only place I've ever seen this talked about was on Gaider's Tumblr, which no longer exists. I may be misremembering, but the Leliana thing was definitely a reason why it was dropped.

[JobacNoor]

I don't think any topic should be completely off the table. Context, intent and execution do matter greatly though if dealing with stuff that you know is a touchy subject. If you include something in the game that touches on something "taboo" like rape, but then stumble through the execution like a bull in a china shop, it's probably better if it's just left out.

[Blackout62]

The only topic I really don't want to see is terrorism, but I guess that won't make it in anyway. Everything else is fair game if it is handled correctly and well written

 

I could go for some terrorism. Good sci-fi is rife with terrorism: Star Wars, DS9, one or two episodes of Firefly. Kira Nerys was the best space terrorist we got that side of 9/11. Who doesn't want to be Kira Nerys?

 

Anyway, sensitive topics should be treated the same way all sensitive things should, with a delicate well controlled hand of precision and awareness.

[Ahglock]

Why did you seriously responded to sarcastic post.

I'm vacationing in Vegas and have been in a constant state of inebriation for the past 4 days and did not catch that it was sarcastic.

[Scofield]

Depends on the person so depends on the topic so no

 

Whats offensive to me might not be to anyone else an just cause something is offensive dont mean it should be avoided an not discussed

[Fredward]

The discussion here does, however, raise an interesting question to me as I see mentions about how the writers should be able to tell the story they want without censorship, yet all the examples discussed are situations where the writers themselves removed those parts of the story because they didn't feel they worked within it. So it isn't a question of censorship, but the writers actually writing the story they want?

 

You'll notice that's a recurring theme. Whenever someone does what you want/like but other people don't they are brave individuals pursuing their art despite the flak they get for it, if they write something you don't like but other people do it's because they have been cowed into writing anodyne drivel by a vocal minority. Seriously, check it. Happens all the time and it is hilarious.

[Dantriges]

There is also a difference to whom it happens. It´s one thing if it happens to an NPC (done mature and tasteful ofc), another one if it happens to the player´s avatar, especially in cases where the player actually experienced in RL, whatever happens on screen or something you could call similar, in a game where you won´t expect it.

[9TailsFox]

I don't think any topic should be completely off the table. Context, intent and execution do matter greatly though if dealing with stuff that you know is a touchy subject. If you include something in the game that touches on something "taboo" like rape, but then stumble through the execution like a bull in a china shop, it's probably better if it's just left out.

Why everyone bringing rape as taboo it's not you still alive. Murder is worse and we kill countless people sometimes for stupid reasons. poor Genitivi. People laugh than Sera beat noble to death it's not funny it's sick.

[The Real Pearl #2]

Why everyone bringing rape as taboo it's not you still alive. Murder is worse and we kill countless people sometimes for stupid reasons. poor Genitivi. People laugh than Sera beat noble to death it's not funny it's sick.

Humor thrives on the misery of the world, Humor is going to die if we keep censoring it or follow in that dumb broad Nicole arbour's example. Some "humor" is tasteless and adds no new insight or commentary on issues. South park is a great example of humor used to make commentary on the stupidity of humanity. But to be fair, i didn't understand this comment very well, i suggest some revision. 

[Seraphim24]

The issue first and foremost isn't whether certain topics should be avoided, but whether people are permitted to have an influence on the final decision.

 

If a person's voice is meaningless (i.e. can't have an affect on the final outcome) then the discussion on censorship is moot.

 

In this case, the thematic ideas/game ideas etc. are largely entirely in the hands of a few people (some Bioware developers/people), so the discussion on censorship has no real meaning, because censored or not, it means nothing in the end.

[9TailsFox]

Humor thrives on the misery of the world, Humor is going to die if we keep censoring it or follow in that dumb broad Nicole arbour's example. Some "humor" is tasteless and adds no new insight or commentary on issues. South park is a great example of humor used to make commentary on the stupidity of humanity. But to be fair, i didn't understand this comment very well, i suggest some revision. 

My point like someone already say offence is taken not given. For someone is taboo for someone it may not be. Like murder is wrong for me I don't say it should be removed, actually DA:I was perfect judgement I don't need to kill but someone but who wants still have option. And rape is somehow special no it's not it should be treated more or less same as murder, depending on situation nothing is just black or white.

 

And I totally agree creators of game.book, show should be allowed to do what they want without bigots screaming "Your game sucks I hate it change it like I demand". And South park is great example I like it, if we start censoring thinks south park would go down first and than everything else.

[SnakeCode]

Why everyone bringing rape as taboo it's not you still alive. Murder is worse and we kill countless people sometimes for stupid reasons. poor Genitivi. People laugh than Sera beat noble to death it's not funny it's sick.

 

This is an issue I have as well. Everyone talks about all these other things as taboo and how they must be handled with great delicacy. Well, how about shooting/cutting everyone you see to pieces guys? Was that handled with enough awareness for you? I'm not sure about you lot, but where i'm from it doesn't get much more taboo than killing people.

[The Real Pearl #2]

This is an issue I have as well. Everyone talks about all these other things as taboo and how they must be handled with great delicacy. Well, how about shooting/cutting everyone you see to pieces guys? Was that handled with enough awareness for you? I'm not sure about you lot, but where i'm from it doesn't get much more taboo than killing people.

Slicing armed cerberus goons is different from gunning down innocent bystanders in a public setting. This is why GTA is controversial, but people forget that you don't need to kill innocent people in that game, it's entirely optional. Unlike that one mission in cod at the airport. Killing faceless baddies is easier than killing your mother in an rpg. It's situational. 

[rashie]

The only topic I really don't want to see is terrorism, but I guess that won't make it in anyway. Everything else is fair game if it is handled correctly and well written

By the end of your traditional rpg, your character will have killed hundreds, maybe even thousands depending on how much of the side content is being done, villains using destructive violence is a strange thing to single out with that in mind.

As for it not making it in, terror was an element of all 3 Mass Effect games already.

[JobacNoor]

Why everyone bringing rape as taboo it's not you still alive. Murder is worse and we kill countless people sometimes for stupid reasons. poor Genitivi. People laugh than Sera beat noble to death it's not funny it's sick.

 

I bring it up as an example because it is generally considered a taboo subject in western society. This is just a fact.

[Applepie_Svk]

I could go for some terrorism. Good sci-fi is rife with terrorism: Star Wars, DS9, one or two episodes of Firefly. Kira Nerys was the best space terrorist we got that side of 9/11. Who doesn't want to be Kira Nerys?

 

Anyway, sensitive topics should be treated the same way all sensitive things should, with a delicate well controlled hand of precision and awareness.

 

Hey I am Anders and this is my favourite chantry in the Kirkwall...

Hey I am Cerberus and this is my favourite humanity in the Milky Way...

Hey I am batarian and this is my favourite life support on the Citadel...

Hey I am Saren and this is my favourite rogue activity around the Milky Way...

 

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Terrorism

 

There is plenty of terrorism as a theme in Bioware games, it just not the guys with turbans and balaclavas and AKs, bomb belts that are shouting Allahu Akbar to send a message...

[Laughing_Man]

Slicing armed cerberus goons is different from gunning down innocent bystanders in a public setting. This is why GTA is controversial, but people forget that you don't need to kill innocent people in that game, it's entirely optional. Unlike that one mission in cod at the airport. Killing faceless baddies is easier than killing your mother in an rpg. It's situational. 

 

You don't have to actually kill civilians yourself in this mission. It might be possible to not kill the cops yourself, not sure.

[9TailsFox]

You don't have to actually kill civilians yourself in this mission. It might be possible to not kill the cops yourself, not sure.

Call of duty one mission 

[Scofield]

You dare call spec ops COD, bad talis bad

[Laughing_Man]

Call of duty one mission 

 

Yeah, the only game ever that managed to make me quit because of the theme rather than execution.

 

I particularly "liked" the white phosphorus part, where the game pretends like you have a choice, but prevents you for going forward unless you choose to use it. (I actually started shooting down with a sniper rifle, but the game simply created more goons)

 

It's the worst definition of passive-aggressive, the game forces bad choices on you, and then adopts a preachy persona and beats you on your head for daring to "choose" the choices it forced you to choose. Fack that.

 

Most pretentious piece of garbage ever.

[Applepie_Svk]

Yeah, the only game ever that managed to make me quit because of the theme rather than execution.

 

I particularly "liked" the white phosphorus part, where the game pretends like you have a choice, but prevents you for going forward unless you choose to use it. (I actually started shooting down with a sniper rifle, but the game simply created more goons)

 

It's the worst definition of passive-aggressive, the game forces bad choices on you, and then adopts a preachy persona and beats you on your head for daring to "choose" the choices it forced you to choose. Fack that.

 

Most pretentious piece of garbage ever.

 

The point made by the Spec Ops the line is that thinking that there is an always better choice is naive, you are sometimes facing a dilema in which you can´t have a luxury of choice, of time or some moral discourse, same happened with the ME2 Arrival DLC, where you had no choice at all, in the end you´ll always end up with blowing relay. However that´s the always an issue of these days in gaming, that you have an illusion of choice, and that´s because a lot of people look on this thru metagame perspective instead of individual perspecive of each playthrough.

Spec Ops is one of the best story driven FPS games of last decade, there is not many that can get you good story if any at all, and that´s not even goal of mainsteam FPS games, to give you a story. 

[Degrees1991]

No was surprised when I first played Witcher 2 and how open it was about these subjects.
Interested how they do this in Mass Effect Jack back story, Jacob's loyalty mission and that 1 mission in 1 with that girl who was a slave, kind of hints at it but doesn't really say it.
Anyway no was actually little disappointed with the race stuff not really being a huge deal. I mean we as humans have problems within ourselves. They made the Batarian/Human stuff a running joke IMO. They also downplayed the Turian/Human issue which is still fresh. If I'm not mistaken the time scale of that war and the start of Mass Effect 1 is less than World War 2 and when Mass Effect was released and those wounds don't heal.

[9TailsFox]

You dare call spec ops COD, bad talis bad

wut? I mean call of duty have one mission. That's cute Spec ops the line all game you play "bad" guy.

[9TailsFox]

Yeah, the only game ever that managed to make me quit because of the theme rather than execution.

 

I particularly "liked" the white phosphorus part, where the game pretends like you have a choice, but prevents you for going forward unless you choose to use it. (I actually started shooting down with a sniper rifle, but the game simply created more goons)

 

It's the worst definition of passive-aggressive, the game forces bad choices on you, and then adopts a preachy persona and beats you on your head for daring to "choose" the choices it forced you to choose. Fack that.

 

Most pretentious piece of garbage ever.

That's the point the game telling you over and over to stop.

[Laughing_Man]

That's the point the game telling you over and over to stop.

 

I suppose they also have an official refund policy for everyone who followed the directive the game gave them?

 

...thinking that there is an always better choice is naive, you are sometimes facing a dilema in which you can´t have a luxury of choice, of time or some moral discourse...

 

You are right of course.

 

However:

 

A. If that is the case don't pretend like there is a choice.

(I wanted during the white phosphorous section the options to snipe, sneak around, or retreat. The game blocked all of these options.

But the dialogue and the actual situation imply that you had other options.)

 

B. As a developer, don't nag, preach, or otherwise beat me on the head with your opinions on the given situation. It's annoying.

 

C. Be more subtle with how you present the situations, the antagonists, and other NPC's. Leave some things open to interpretation.

Otherwise, it feels like the writer / developer is merely speaking out directly using the voices of in game characters.