382 réponses à ce sujet

[Anacronian Stryx]

I personally think the devs should just write any story they feel are interesting and then be dammed by the masses -  the day that any form of media was lowered to societal commentary and societal commentary only, Is the day humanity lost something important.

[Han Shot First]

The problem is the very fact that these are potentially very sensitive topic.  And as such, need to be handled very delicately.  And can all too easily backfire.  

 

 

Pretty much this.

 

The writers should feel free to tell the story they want to tell without self-censoring for fear of offending someone. That being said, some controversial topics often do need to be dealt with intelligently and not ham-handedly or casually tossed in for shock value.

[Laughing_Man]

That being said, some controversial topics often do need to be dealt with intelligently and not ham-handedly or casually tossed in for shock value.

 

I don't think anyone disagreed on this particular point, it's just that what we see is not careful handling and subtlety, but rather systematic sanitization.

[Lady Artifice]

That's merely something someone with "good manners" would say. Clearly.


The hypocrisy is strong.




Not really. Its the main reason why I no longer acknowledge you.

(But, but, when I was referring to people, I put my self into that generalization)

Sure you were. Now, change your sig to: I'm mostly a terrible and dumb person, but I'm not the only one.

Your point is acknowledged. The comment in question was brashly put and clearly failed to communicate my attempt at self criticism utterly. I do not approve of cynicism, and yet I fall into the trap of it often. That is hypocritical of me. It was wrong for me to make light of it, and I apologize to anyone I offended.

[Nattfare]

Hypocritical and apologetic? I'm offended by the apologizing, you should apologize!

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

...only that would probably offend me too.

[Dabrikishaw]

Seems to me the term SJW gets flung around a lot at lots of different people who happen to disagree with a thing, the particular poster said. Or just inserted randomly in a topic that is tangentially related.

 

I thought the question was, what do you think about including stuff like rape, child abuse/molestation, human trafficking and similar stuff, not "these evil SJWs wanna take away my pixel boobs."

This happens almost every time topics like this show up. It's really pathetic.

[Laughing_Man]

Seems to me the term SJW gets flung around a lot at lots of different people who happen to disagree with a thing, the particular poster said. Or just inserted randomly in a topic that is tangentially related.
 
I thought the question was, what do you think about including stuff like rape, child abuse/molestation, human trafficking and similar stuff, not "these evil SJWs wanna take away my pixel boobs."

This happens almost every time topics like this show up. It's really pathetic.

 
Just replace "SJW's" with the Politically Correct Brigade (PCB for short), these guys usually go to work part time there as well after they finish crusading pixel boobies for the day.

[Dabrikishaw]

 
Just replace "SJW's" with the Politically Correct Brigade (PCB for short), these guys usually go to work part time there as well after they finish crusading pixel boobies for the day.

This type of hyperbolic boogeyman nonsense is what I'm talking about. There's no point to it besides treating anyone that's for progressiveness as extremists.

[Laughing_Man]

This type of hyperbolic boogeyman nonsense is what I'm talking about. There's no point to it besides treating anyone that's for progressiveness as extremists.

 

Hardly hyperbolic, and hardly boogeyman, just a social phenomenon.

 

I guess that part of the problem is that everyone thinks of something different when they read the word "SJW".

So everyone can be wrong or right at the same time in this argument.

[KainD]

This type of hyperbolic boogeyman nonsense is what I'm talking about. There's no point to it besides treating anyone that's for progressiveness as extremists.

 

Avoiding any topics = being stagnant not progressive. Being progressive is acknowledging sh*t, talking about it, learning from it and going forward. 

[Laughing_Man]

Avoiding any topics = being stagnant not progressive. Being progressive is acknowledging sh*t, talking about it, learning from it and going forward. 

 

Nah... Today progressive means something else. Unfortunately.

[Synthetic Turian]

Your point is acknowledged. The comment in question was brashly put and clearly failed to communicate my attempt at self criticism utterly. I do not approve of cynicism, and yet I fall into the trap of it often. That is hypocritical of me. It was wrong for me to make light of it, and I apologize to anyone I offended.

 

[Dabrikishaw]

Hardly hyperbolic, and hardly boogeyman, just a social phenomenon.

 

I guess that part of the problem is that everyone thinks of something different when they read the word "SJW".

So everyone can be wrong or right at the same time in this argument.

Fine.

[In Exile]

DAI has an interview where they removed a scene where Leliana impostor seduced the Inquisitor, but it was removed because they perceive it as rape by one of the female staff members. I'm just waiting to hear what people's thoughts on this, and I hope people can avoid the snarky remarks in general. Certain topics like child killing or rape or racism are very sensitive since people can be affected by it, but it also brings out certain awareness and a strong emotion and connection to the characters if it fits with the narrative. I'm not talking about intentionally forcing sensitive topics into the game, but if it's organic and happen to fit the characters, I feel like it should be used. It's not also about being edgy or pushing the envelop, but if it's a topic that happens to come up in the game, if they should avoid or try to put in the alternatives. 

 

People misunderstand the criticism. The criticism is that it was seen as, essentially, a sexual assault perpetrated by the protagonist on a facsimile of Leliana, and that Leliana might see it that way. So then the issue for the devs, when playing this out in their discussion, was whether (i) that was the intention behind the scene; and (ii) regardless, whether they would want a scene played that way.

 

It wasn't about avoiding rape. It was about crafting a scene that adhered to its original vision. 

[In Exile]

I pretty much hate the idea of trigger warnings and safe spaces and other censorship to avoid offending people.

On the other hand this is entertainment they are marketing. So it's a fine line in how things are handled in how it may negatively impact sales.

 

Do you also hate the idea of labels? Because the point isn't offence, the point is informing people about the content they are going to consume. This attitude, to me, amounts to saying "Screw those people who want to know how much sugar is in their food."

[Laughing_Man]

People misunderstand the criticism. The criticism is that it was seen as, essentially, a sexual assault perpetrated by the protagonist on a facsimile of Leliana, and that Leliana might see it that way. So then the issue for the devs, when playing this out in their discussion, was whether (i) that was the intention behind the scene; and (ii) regardless, whether they would want a scene played that way.

 

It wasn't about avoiding rape. It was about crafting a scene that adhered to its original vision. 

 

How is being seduced by a Desire demon equals to a rape of the person it was masquerading as?

If anyone here is the offended party, it's the Inquisitor. Leliana has very little to do with it.

(aside from the general awkwardness something like this would cause)

[In Exile]

SJW are similiar to insane clowns, preaching equality and tolerance, shouting hate and oppresion, that´s what SJW looks like for anyone from outside of cyrcle for intelectually and morally superior demigods. Morality or intellect has nothing to do with being SJW, it´s quite opposite, that each SJW that marks his or her existence on the internet, ends up as a material of entertaiment.

 

Ah, and there was a lot of people believing into the ideologies of last century that thought about themselves as superior and guess how did they end up.

 

An interesting thing to say in the context of a post about the superiority of your ideology. 

[In Exile]

How is being seduced by a Desire demon equals to a rape of the person it was masquerading as?

If anyone here is the offended party, it's the Inquisitor. Leliana has very little to do with it.

(aside from the general awkwardness something like this would cause)

 

The idea, which you either get or don't, is that for someone to have sex with a physical copy of you is a violation. It's far beyond awkwardness. You either believe that or you don't - and by the sound of it, you don't. But the issue isn't what you believe. The issue is whether you believe people feel this way, and whether you believe their feeling this way is the intent behind your work. I expect that your answer will be that their feeling this way isn't legitimate, so you wouldn't care.

 

But the actual point of the story has nothing to do with the ultimate conclusion Bioware reached. It has to do with the fact that the writers wouldn't have realized that there was another side to the issue without a more diverse perspective. Why would you be against more information?

[Shechinah]

Do you also hate the idea of labels? Because the point isn't offence, the point is informing people about the content they are going to consume. This attitude, to me, amounts to saying "Screw those people who want to know how much sugar is in their food."

 

Why would people want to know if what they are allergic to is in the content they are about to consume? Let it be a surprise because an unexpected allergic reaction is so much fun especially if it's a potential fatal one!  
 

[KainD]

An interesting thing to say in the context of a post about the superiority of your ideology. 

 

When will people realize that ideology does not possess a quality axis. 

[Shechinah]

I pretty much hate the idea of trigger warnings and safe spaces and other censorship to avoid offending people.

On the other hand this is entertainment they are marketing. So it's a fine line in how things are handled in how it may negatively impact sales.

 

Why would people want to know if something they are triggered by appears in a product? It only runs the risk of potentially causing them to recall an experience so traumatic that it mentally scarred them. Why not let it be a surprise; I'm sure it would be a wonderful experience!

 

[SnakeCode]

How is being seduced by a Desire demon equals to a rape of the person it was masquerading as?

If anyone here is the offended party, it's the Inquisitor. Leliana has very little to do with it.

(aside from the general awkwardness something like this would cause)

 

There are all kinds of things people class as rape these days. Look up fraud rape/rape by deception. It means getting consensual sex by pretending to be someone you are not (not dissimilar to the Leliana thing) but has since been expanded to lying about any aspect of someone's life. So a guy tells a woman he's a millionaire, she has consensual sex with him, then finds out he isn't a millionaire. Turns out that the guy just raped her.

 

So whilst the cut Leliana content could be described as rapey, it wasn't Leliana who was being raped in that scenario. It's pretty backwards to consider Leliana the victim, as nothing happened to (the real) her.

[KainD]

Why would people want to know if what they are allergic to is in the content they are about to consume? Let it be a surprise because an unexpected allergic reaction is so much fun especially if it's a potential fatal one!  
 

 

Why would people want to know if something they are triggered by appears in a product? It only runs the risk of potentially causing them to recall an experience so traumatic that it mentally scarred them. Why not let it be a surprise; I'm sure it would be a wonderful experience!

 

Really bad comparison. Allergies are not cured by being exposed to the product that you are allergic to, mental problems are. 

[In Exile]

Why would people want to know if something they are triggered by appears in a product? It only runs the risk of potentially causing them to recall an experience so traumatic that it mentally scarred them. Why not let it be a surprise; I'm sure it would be a wonderful experience!

 

I for one am tired of all those war heroes who sacrificed years of their lives for their country whining about how they'd like a little warning about whether a story will force them to relive debilitating memories of some of the most awful trauma humans can experience. 

[Degrees1991]

See that bs is were we can agree Snake boy.