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[Dantriges]

The fact the organics were able to design, build and finally activate a weapon that can destroy all synthetic in the galaxy is something the catalyst must deal with.
The reapers, once theoretically invincible, are now concretely vulnerable.
So yes, the crucible must necessarily be part of the new solution. It's concrete existence cannot be ignored.
 
But the catalyst doesn't want the red ending. The reapers are now a blunt weapon (they are no longer a real threat for the future cycle), but the catalyst still believes that organic will create syntetitcs that sooner o later will destroy them all. However, in his opinion, this (somehow, special) cycle + crucible may have a better chance do solve (or delay) the problem than the reapers. Maybe through cyclical tech-reset, who knows. We know that he is sure that his solution won't work anymore, so a new, never attempted solution is something he is prepared to accept..

The Crucible is no threat in a future cycle. Even if we disregard that Liara and the rest assumed the thing misfired in Refuse and that finding the capsule is only a slightly less pure luck than the find in the Mars Archives, it still requires components the Catalyst has full control over. The Reapers have a few thousand years, will be a fun time, when the next one realizes that the Reapers dismantled the essential component 50.000 years ago and modified the relay network to blunt the ray of magic.
 

But both these solutions are imperfect, temporary. The more the organic civilizations are allowed to progress, the more advanced synthetics they will create. And the day will come when (probably? possibly? unavoidably?) the crucible and/orsheparlyst/reapers will not be able to prevent/reset the tech singularity count down. 
Only synthesis is going to solve the organic-synthetic problem for ever, and without risks. The catalyst is understandably excited about it. Synthesis is the only solution he really want.
The other solutions are just a makeshift.. better than the current solution, but not so much. A risky bet at best..

The tech singularity is already there in Control in the shape of a mean ASI sitting in the Citadel. As EDI explained, the AI with the best hardware wins in cyberwarfare. Futurist predictions are that the first AI achieving ASI status will probably the last. Everything else can´t compete, like a newborn against a grown adult. Guess who´s already there.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yes they did.  Didn't you pay attention during the geth consensus mission?

 

Quarians tried to shelter the geth, and were gunned down for their efforts.

 

All of them?

 

Geth space is located at the trailing end of the Perseus Arm, beyond the lawless Terminus Systems. The Perseus Veil, an obscuring "dark nebula" of opaque gas and dust, lies between their space and the Terminus Systems.

 

From the geth codex entry

 

They killed some yes. But jumping to the conclusion that the people killed represent everyone who might be sympathetic towards the Geth is.....silly. I seem to remember a few times in history and even today were there is a group in power who are trying to silence anyone who opposes them. And even with death being possible and many people being killed helping them. People still held sympathetic and would attempt to help or shelter those oppressed people.

 

Geth killed bigots and people sympathetic to them a like during the war. Leading to the Quarian's fleeing the system to the Mass Relay were the Geth broke off the assault. Over time the history of events as told by the losers in the conflict would twist around to what they were in ME 1.

 

You just proved my point about the location of the Geth. Did you even pay attention to what you put down?

[rossler]

Facepalm. They look similar, both have reaper tech, who cares about the rest?

 

It's all in the details, which you missed out on. 

[kal_reegar]

The Crucible is no threat in a future cycle. Even if we disregard that Liara and the rest assumed the thing misfired in Refuse and that finding the capsule is only a slightly less pure luck than the find in the Mars Archives, it still requires components the Catalyst has full control over. The Reapers have a few thousand years, will be a fun time, when the next one realizes that the Reapers dismantled the essential component 50.000 years ago and modified the relay network to blunt the ray of magic.
 

 

wait wait. We need to make a distinction.

The crucible (or the consequences of the crucible) IS a threat for the reapers in future cycle. This is absolutely clear.

 

The crucible change me + it has change the variables + my solution won't work anymore + Liara beacon scene + stargazer "the reapers are no longer a threat" = FACTS. In game, explicit information. We cannot simply deny it, come on.

 

You can say (and I can agree) that this is rubbish writing, that It is intolerable not to give the player better explanation, but the facts  do not change.

 

However, I believe that a brilliant mind (a sci-fi writer) could fill all these bothersome vague aspects of the lore.

I'm not that person, of course, but for example: you say that the Reapers could dismantel the Citadel. Well, and if they do so, the "trap" strategy is done. And if the trap strategy fails, they risk to be defeated by race that the previous cycle consider primitives.

 

 

 

 

The tech singularity is already there in Control in the shape of a mean ASI sitting in the Citadel. As EDI explained, the AI with the best hardware wins in cyberwarfare. Futurist predictions are that the first AI achieving ASI status will probably the last. Everything else can´t compete, like a newborn against a grown adult. Guess who´s already there. 

 

 

 

 

"Futurist predictions are that the first AI achieving ASI status will probably the last". Maybe. Or maybe not. The catalyst seems to believe otherwise, and this is just a different, legit opinion. We cannot have certainties about the evolution of AI after tech singularity, and the potential long-term risks.

You can disagree with the catalyst opinion, but it is a rational one.

[Dantriges]

You can say (and I can agree) that this is rubbish writing, that It is intolerable not to give the player better explanation, but the facts  do not change.

Yeah. Pretty much. You can add that the facts are more or less pulled out of thin air .
 
 

However, I believe that a brilliant mind (a sci-fi writer) could fill all these bothersome vague aspects of the lore.
I'm not that person, of course, but for example: you say that the Reapers could dismantel the Citadel. Well, and if they do so, the "trap" strategy is done. And if the trap strategy fails, they risk to be defeated by race that the previous cycle consider primitives.

Move the Citadel core functions to something like the Alpha Relay, build a new trap and call it the glasshouse or so. You don´t need the relay shutdown and dark relay in the same place as your honey pot.
 

"Futurist predictions are that the first AI achieving ASI status will probably the last". Maybe. Or maybe not. The catalyst seems to believe otherwise, and this is just a different, legit opinion. We cannot have certainties about the evolution of AI after tech singularity, and the potential long-term risks.

Correct. EDIs statement about the pecking order in cyberwarfare still stands.

[kal_reegar]

 

 

Correct. EDIs statement about the pecking order in cyberwarfare still stands.

 

yes, and maybe she's right, maybe she isn't.

or maybe she right about cyberwarfare, but the danger of tech singularity doesn't come from cyberwarfare supremacy. How knows.

[Iakus]

They killed some yes. But jumping to the conclusion that the people killed represent everyone who might be sympathetic towards the Geth is.....silly. I seem to remember a few times in history and even today were there is a group in power who are trying to silence anyone who opposes them. And even with death being possible and many people being killed helping them. People still held sympathetic and would attempt to help or shelter those oppressed people.

 

Geth killed bigots and people sympathetic to them a like during the war. Leading to the Quarian's fleeing the system to the Mass Relay were the Geth broke off the assault. Over time the history of events as told by the losers in the conflict would twist around to what they were in ME 1.

 

How many is "some" in a war that killed millions?

 

At any rate, the point was the Morning War was not strictly organic vs synthetic.  It was organic vs synthetic and other organics!

 

 

You just proved my point about the location of the Geth. Did you even pay attention to what you put down?

What the hell are you talking about.

 

The geth live beyond the Perseus Veil.

 

The Veil is beyond the Terminus!

 

The Council had zero authority there.  The quarians were never a Council race!  They had an embassy, that's all.

[gothpunkboy89]

How many is "some" in a war that killed millions?

 

At any rate, the point was the Morning War was not strictly organic vs synthetic.  It was organic vs synthetic and other organics!

 

What the hell are you talking about.

 

The geth live beyond the Perseus Veil.

 

The Veil is beyond the Terminus!

 

The Council had zero authority there.  The quarians were never a Council race!  They had an embassy, that's all.

 

 

Your the one making the massive leap that a dozen Quarians shown in a memory automatically equates to every single Quarian with sympathy for the Geth being killed. Talk about some serious jumping the shark logic there.

 

When the Geth finally started fighting back they killed everyone. Quarians that wanted them dead, Quarians that had sympathy for their situation and Quarians who didn't care and just wanted to not be killed. It is as idiotic as when people talking about history try to make it seem like Hitler and the Nazi party were embraced by all Germans Invasion of Poland. When you claim all Quarians who supported the Geth were killed by their fellow Quarians.

 

So you didn't actually pay attention to what I put down about the location were the Geth reside did you? But keep not paying attention to what I put down. Only means more laughs for me.

 

Council Races is any race that actively acknowledges the political power of the Council. For instance the Batarians do not recognize the power of the Council and does not abide by Council Laws. Elcor/Humans how ever acknowledge the power of the Council and abides by Council Laws.

 

For example during the Luna Mission Hackett makes it very clear that the Alliance were not breaking any laws and developing an AI. Laws passed by the Council that outlawed the creation and research of AI technology. Which is why Shepard asks Tali why the Council did not step in over what they were doing when creating the Geth. To have an embassy there means you are joining the other races to accept the Council rules and laws.

 

Other wise all you would need is an embassy on the Race's specific planet. You don't need an embassy on the Council if you want to negotiate a trade agreement with the Turian Government. The fact that Shepard was able to bypass the council to get support for the Crucible shows they are not the rulers of everything. Quarians were a part of the Council accepting their rules and laws. This in turn means the Council and their Fleets which are token forces provided by every race with the Turians making up the bulk of it. To help protect and defend other races when needed. How ever they basically told the Quarians they are SOL. And refused to help them.

 

Which at least makes the Council and how they act like complete dicks in ME 1 and 2 only finally crawling back with hat in hand in ME 3 make some sense. They are just gigantic D bags.

[Dantriges]

yes, and maybe she's right, maybe she isn't.

or maybe she right about cyberwarfare, but the danger of tech singularity doesn't come from cyberwarfare supremacy. How knows.

 

I somehow expect that the cyberwarfare AI knows what she´s talking about in her area of expertise. That´s like "maybe Shepard knows how to operate a pistol."

The control ending already has an AI beyond the singularity, the Shepalyst. Any emerging malicious AI is toast.

[kal_reegar]

I somehow expect that the cyberwarfare AI knows what she´s talking about in her area of expertise. That´s like "maybe Shepard knows how to operate a pistol."

The control ending already has an AI beyond the singularity, the Shepalyst. Any emerging malicious AI is toast.

 

Yes, and I'm inclined to agree with EDI about cyberwarfare. As I'm inclined to agree with the catalyst about the more general topic of "psycohistoric" variables/galaxy long term future.

 

But again, cycberwarfare mastery is not necessarly what makes tech singularity so dangerous. For example, in a grey goo scenario cyberwarfare is pretty irrelevant.

And I doubt that control ending is what the catalyst meant by tech singularity. Control ending is simply a new, update, more effective catalyst (the Shepartlyst) using the a reapers as the new "galactic police/spectre" of this cycle, preventing tech singularity and conflicts with continued, costant, targeted (violent and/or diplomatic) actions and intervention instead of a cyclic reset every 50.000 years.

[Dantriges]

I meant that the Shepalyst will probably overwhelm any synthetic intelligence if it wants to.

 

Grey goo was never a scenario touched upon in the MEverse. If you want to rule out current futurist predictions, grey goo is off the table, too. The whole synthetic-organic conflict was about synthetic beings like robots or AIs, nanobots didn´t feature in that. Anyways grey goo wouldn´t be a galaxy wide event, unless it turns intelligent enough to build spaceships and then it´s open to hacking. Considering reaper mastery over nanites, I doubt that grey goo would win, if the Reapers put their mind to it.

 

The Catalyst never used the term technological singularity, but well, it´s already there. The Catalyst is supposed to be a superintelligence, even if it´s portrayal is dumber than a brick. But if an unbound AI hasn´t achieved it in a billion years, there won´t be one.

[AlanC9]

But again, cycberwarfare mastery is not necessarly what makes tech singularity so dangerous. For example, in a grey goo scenario cyberwarfare is pretty irrelevant.

And I doubt that control ending is what the catalyst meant by tech singularity. Control ending is simply a new, update, more effective catalyst (the Shepartlyst) using the a reapers as the new "galactic police/spectre" of this cycle, preventing tech singularity and conflicts with continued, costant, targeted (violent and/or diplomatic) actions and intervention instead of a cyclic reset every 50.000 years.

 

 

This isn't really stable, though, unless the galaxy is held in in some kind of stasis (which some Sheplysts might choose to do). In the long term the Reapers will be surpassed by the rest of the galaxy.

 

Also, not all Sheplysts will be interested in preventing a tech singularity. Arguably, the best thing to do is just bring it on and try to manage the consequences.

[The One True Nobody]

The fact the organics were able to design, build and finally activate a weapon that can destroy all synthetic in the galaxy is something the catalyst must deal with.

The reapers, once theoretically invincible, are now concretely vulnerable.

So yes, the crucible must necessarily be part of the new solution. It's concrete existence cannot be ignored.

 

But the catalyst doesn't want the red ending. The reapers are now a blunt weapon (they are no longer a real threat for the future cycle), but the catalyst still believes that organic will create syntetitcs that sooner o later will destroy them all. However, in his opinion, this (somehow, special) cycle + crucible may have a better chance do solve (or delay) the problem than the reapers. Maybe through cyclical tech-reset, who knows. We know that he is sure that his solution won't work anymore, so a new, never attempted solution is something he is prepared to accept..

 

He doesn't like the blue ending too. But the force combined of the Crucible knowledge + Sheparlyst may have an even better chance to solve/delay the problem (cyclic tech reset + Sheparlyst policing the galaxy?) than destroy. Who knows? Again, he is telling you: I HAVE FAILED. YOU'LL NEED TO FIND ANOTHER WAY. I'M PREPARED TO RELEASE CONTROL.

 

But both these solutions are imperfect, temporary. The more the organic civilizations are allowed to progress, the more advanced synthetics they will create. And the day will come when (probably? possibly? unavoidably?) the crucible and/orsheparlyst/reapers will not be able to prevent/reset the tech singularity count down. 

Only synthesis is going to solve the organic-synthetic problem for ever, and without risks. The catalyst is understandably excited about it. Synthesis is the only solution he really want.

The other solutions are just a makeshift.. better than the current solution, but not so much. A risky bet at best..

 

 

This is the catalyst point of view. Which isn't necessarly true. Shepard can disagree with all/part of it. Personally, the idea of apocalyptic tech singularity is not something I can ruled out with certainty, but I don't care about the far future. I want victory and freedom now, and destroy grant me that.

 

The idea that anything is ever a "certainty" is one only a computer has any cause to really believe. Computers, and by extension even the most advanced AI, would always try to calculate possibility, and that ultimately leads to interpreting "very likely" with "certain." The way Javik tells it the Prothean Empire was actually well set to keep their time period's synthetics in check, and in a perfect head-space to avoid making the same mistake again. It was the Reapers' intervention that prevented that possibility. In their mindless cycle of "delay," they snuffed out any and all possibility of the problem going away.

 

The Catalyst was more open than the Reapers themselves to the idea that the unpredictability of organics could allow them to rise above the Reaper's cycle, in its own way. If it had truly wanted to manipulate Shepard to a particular end, it simply would have had to be selective in its explanation of the Crucible's functions. It didn't, though. It let Shepard choose, even the answers it "didn't want." It only ever leaves out the explanation of a given function when the Crucible was damaged too heavily for it to work.

[kal_reegar]

I meant that the Shepalyst will probably overwhelm any synthetic intelligence if it wants to.

 

Grey goo was never a scenario touched upon in the MEverse. If you want to rule out current futurist predictions, grey goo is off the table, too. The whole synthetic-organic conflict was about synthetic beings like robots or AIs, nanobots didn´t feature in that. Anyways grey goo wouldn´t be a galaxy wide event, unless it turns intelligent enough to build spaceships and then it´s open to hacking. Considering reaper mastery over nanites, I doubt that grey goo would win, if the Reapers put their mind to it.

 

The Catalyst never used the term technological singularity, but well, it´s already there. The Catalyst is supposed to be a superintelligence, even if it´s portrayal is dumber than a brick. But if an unbound AI hasn´t achieved it in a billion years, there won´t be one.

 

Was the catalyst truly unbound? I don't think so. He was bound tohis purpouse for billion years...

 

However, we cannot be sure of how an IA could evolve. There could be infinite possibilities. Maybe some IA could evolve only a little e very slowly, and some others IA could evolve very quickly and exponentially. Like organics. Evolution is not the same for every organism.

The geth are 300 years old and they were building a Dyson Sphere. What about the next 3000 years? 30.000 years? What's next? And after that?

 

 

The point is that the catalyst believe that, without the reapers intervention (reset technology every 50.000 years), sooner or later organics will create synthetcis that will destroy all organic life (let's call this moment "tech singularity"). 

Is this scenario (tech singulairty) a possible one? I think so. Not certain, but possible.

I mean, how can you ruled it out with certainty?

 

The reapers/catalyst are not trying to destroy all organic life. The are destroying only an insignificant percentage of organic species every 50.000 years, and they are doing that, diligently, from a long long time. We can exclude that they embody the very problem they are trying to solve. They could be just stupid machine trying to solve a non-existent  problem (this is a very concrete possibility), but they don't embody the tech singularity as defined before (a risk for all organic life) .

 

 

This isn't really stable, though, unless the galaxy is held in in some kind of stasis (which some Sheplysts might choose to do). In the long term the Reapers will be surpassed by the rest of the galaxy.

 

Also, not all Sheplysts will be interested in preventing a tech singularity. Arguably, the best thing to do is just bring it on and try to manage the consequences.

 

I totally agree. And this is the reason why the catalyst

a. believes that only synthesis is a valid solution, and destroy/control nothing but temporary makeshift

b. would have gladly continued the harvest cycle, until the crucible/shepard etc. proved that this solution won't work anymore

[Dantriges]

Was the catalyst truly unbound? I don't think so. He was bound tohis purpouse for billion years...

So? Having a purpose doesn´t rule out an actual post singularity ASI.
 

However, we cannot be sure of how an IA could evolve. There could be infinite possibilities. Maybe some IA could evolve only a little e very slowly, and some others IA could evolve very quickly and exponentially. Like organics. Evolution is not the same for every organism.
The geth are 300 years old and they were building a Dyson Sphere. What about the next 3000 years? 30.000 years? What's next? And after that?

Now we are in the realm of anything goes.  
 

The point is that the catalyst believe that, without the reapers intervention (reset technology every 50.000 years), sooner or later organics will create synthetcis that will destroy all organic life (let's call this moment "tech singularity"). 
Is this scenario (tech singulairty) a possible one? I think so. Not certain, but possible.
I mean, how can you ruled it out with certainty?

The reapers/catalyst are not trying to destroy all organic life. The are destroying only an insignificant percentage of organic species every 50.000 years, and they are doing that, diligently, from a long long time. We can exclude that they embody the very problem they are trying to solve. They could be just stupid machine trying to solve a non-existent  problem (this is a very concrete possibility), but they don't embody the tech singularity as defined before (a risk for all organic life) .

Tech singularity has its own definition, it doesn´t mean synthetics kill organics. It´s a billion years, they have access to the data of countless species and the resources of the galaxy. If the Catalyst didn´t magage that feat, nothing will.  

[Reorte]

The idea that anything is ever a "certainty" is one only a computer has any cause to really believe. Computers, and by extension even the most advanced AI, would always try to calculate possibility, and that ultimately leads to interpreting "very likely" with "certain."

It's people who have a bad grasp of probability in my experience. An intelligent machine would probably roll with whatever probabolity it calculated. The difficulty isn't the probability itself but how worth the risk something is, which is usually a value judgement of some sort (mind you most decisions are, which is something else people are very bad at realising).

[kal_reegar]

 

 

So? Having a purpose doesn´t rule out an actual post singularity ASI.

 

you said it was unbound.

on the contrary, I believe that the catalyst is not limitless. He's unable to directly perform even elementary action, for example. He needs tools and agents for everything. He fullfilled his original task without hesitations for billion years. It doesn't seems to me a completely free, omnipotent IA.

I'm against this "deification" of the catalyst. He's  a very powerful IA, capable of a non-quatifiable control/influnce over the reapers, and that's all we know.

 

We have no element to decide if he is on the top of the evolutive scale of IA, or not.

 

 

 

Now we are in the realm of anything goes.  

 

 

If you had observed the history of life on earth for 4 billion years, you would have thought that the apex of evolution were the dinosaurs, or the great mammals, or some other dominant species before the Permian or Devonian extinction event.

In any case, we are talking about species with a certain amount of intelligence.

An than, suddenly, humans. After 4 billion years of life and evolution, after 5 mass extinction event, after milions of species walked on the earth, something radically different emerge: a new race so powerful, so immensly intelligent that, if it would, could enslave any other animal and even eradicate life from earth (and it's what we are doing, more or less)

Why shouldn't synthetics evolution works in the same way?

Geth, Edi, even the catalyst and the other 99,999% of synthetics... maybe they are the equivalent of dinosaurs, or the great mammals. Very intelligent and evolved, yes, but are they tha apex? Maybe not. What if a new kind of AI, much more evolved (like h. sapiens) emerge somewhere in the galaxy?

 

The catalyst fears this moment. And he believes that, without a constant tech reset, this moment sooner or later will arrive.

Again: how can you ruled out it with certainty?

 

 

 

Tech singularity has its own definition, it doesn´t mean synthetics kill organics. It´s a billion years, they have access to the data of countless species and the resources of the galaxy. If the Catalyst didn´t magage that feat, nothing will.   

 

I used that definition for convenience.

But ok, I can say that what the catalyst is trying to prevent is the moment whan advanced organics will create advanced synthetcis that will destroy all organic life.

 

You think that this moment will never come? That it's something impossible? Ok, well, you can believe that. You've made your observation, the catalyst has made his.

You can say to the catalyst "I don't believe you!" or "I disagree with you"". But imho you cannot say to him "you are irrational".

[Dantriges]

you said it was unbound.

I meant that it´s not beholden to another entity. One of the more prominent examples of malicious ASI are the ones with purpose who maximise it and kill everything in the process.
 

on the contrary, I believe that the catalyst is not limitless. He's unable to directly perform even elementary action, for example. He needs tools and agents for everything. He fullfilled his original task without hesitations for billion years. It doesn't seems to me a completely free, omnipotent IA.
I'm against this "deification" of the catalyst. He's  a very powerful IA, capable of a non-quatifiable control/influnce over the reapers, and that's all we know.

No one said anything about omnipotent. That a computer needs peripheral devices to do physical tasks is hardly surprising. 
 

If you had observed the history of life on earth for 4 billion years, you would have thought that the apex of evolution were the dinosaurs, or the great mammals, or some other dominant species before the Permian or Devonian extinction event.
In any case, we are talking about species with a certain amount of intelligence.
An than, suddenly, humans. After 4 billion years of life and evolution, after 5 mass extinction event, after milions of species walked on the earth, something radically different emerge: a new race so powerful, so immensly intelligent that, if it would, could enslave any other animal and even eradicate life from earth (and it's what we are doing, more or less)
Why shouldn't synthetics evolution works in the same way?
Geth, Edi, even the catalyst and the other 99,999% of synthetics... maybe they are the equivalent of dinosaurs, or the great mammals. Very intelligent and evolved, yes, but are they tha apex? Maybe not. What if a new kind of AI, much more evolved (like h. sapiens) emerge somewhere in the galaxy?
 
The catalyst fears this moment. And he believes that, without a constant tech reset, this moment sooner or later will arrive.
Again: how can you ruled out it with certainty?

In theory everything is possible in a fictional universe. Maybe the council discovers how mindmeld can be used on a large scale, create an organic superintelligent hivemind where everyone is a super biotic and capable of manipulating energy and matter as they want. And how is that "evolved" AI supposed to show up in the universe? There´s no evolution for synthetics, not in the biological sense.
 
Yeah ok, theCatalyst is actually pretty dumb, I doubt that it´s actually right and it´s a pale shadow of an ASI, but we´ve only got the AIs in the setting to have a measure of what they are capable of.

You think that this moment will never come? That it's something impossible? Ok, well, you can believe that. You've made your observation, the catalyst has made his.
You can say to the catalyst "I don't believe you!" or "I disagree with you"". But imho you cannot say to him "you are irrational".

I meant, that if the Catalyst didn´t reach that point, no one will. Actually the game wants to sell us, that it´s there, the execution is just way off. In the dialogue, Shepard doesn´t challenge the Catalyst´s assumptions. In Refuse it´s more about choice and dying on our terms or so. Even destroy is an option the Catalyst put on the table and Shep only argues minor points.

[Ieldra]

They killed some yes. But jumping to the conclusion that the people killed represent everyone who might be sympathetic towards the Geth is.....silly.

No, in a story this is perfectly appropriate, since a story's scenes exist to make a point. From the scene, we can infer that gunning the geth-sympathizers down was perhaps not a universal, but at least a common action taken by the anti-AI faction. This impression can be changed by information acquired later, but if there is no such information and no evidence to the contrary, this single scene represents a bigger picture dominated by "gunning down the geth sympathizers".

[kal_reegar]

 

 

There´s no evolution for synthetics, not in the biological sense.

 

mmm... the geth started as stupid handy-work robot.

then they evolved. Almost "naturally". Even their creator didn't see it coming.

then Legion, a very "strange", a sort of "free thinker" geth.

then they planned a sort of dyson sphere, and who know what's next.

 

there is some kind of evolution, or let' call it progress, becoming more and more effective, intelligente, powerful etc.

 

how much can a AI improve? In 100, 1000, 10000 years? Maybe some AI very very little (see the shark, or jellyfish), others a lot (primates -> sapiens sapiens).

Evolution is not a constant straight.

Could be the red line or the blue line. Maybe the catalyst is a "blue line AI", and he fears a potential "red line AI".

http://www.antonine-...6-7/graph_3.gif

 

 

 

 

I meant, that if the Catalyst didn´t reach that point, no one will.

 

I don't know. For example, Synthesis was reachable. The catalyst had 500000000 years to reach it, but he falied and failed.

Who knows what other things were reachable? The catalyst could likely be a very limited AI, in my opinion. Heavily specialized, but inherently incapable to perform/consider anything that doesn't concerne the "organic-synthetic conflict" and its solution. A sort uper intelligent galactic chess software.

[gothpunkboy89]

No, in a story this is perfectly appropriate, since a story's scenes exist to make a point. From the scene, we can infer that gunning the geth-sympathizers down was perhaps not a universal, but at least a common action taken by the anti-AI faction. This impression can be changed by information acquired later, but if there is no such information and no evidence to the contrary, this single scene represents a bigger picture dominated by "gunning down the geth sympathizers".

 

But again there is no data to support the claim all Geth friendly Quarians were killed off by the anti Geth Quarians.  And both he and you are ignoring my larger point. There would inevitably be sympathizers that still exist. When the Geth finally went into war mode those sympathizers were killed a long with the anti Geth Quarians as well.

 

[dorktainian]

having now had a look at the new MEA video shown last night, does anyone think the huge ark ship looks to be powered by the Crucible or something very like it?

[gothpunkboy89]

having now had a look at the new MEA video shown last night, does anyone think the huge ark ship looks to be powered by the Crucible or something very like it?

 

I saw it and thought it looked more like they were building based off the Citadel Relay.

[Iakus]

But again there is no data to support the claim all Geth friendly Quarians were killed off by the anti Geth Quarians.  And both he and you are ignoring my larger point. There would inevitably be sympathizers that still exist. When the Geth finally went into war mode those sympathizers were killed a long with the anti Geth Quarians as well.

 

Except the geth remember and honor the quarians who tried to protect them.  And the surviving quarians no longer remember they ever existed.

 

And my point was that the anti-synthetic feeling was not universal among the quarians.  That such animosity is not inborn.

[Reorte]

I saw it and thought it looked more like they were building based off the Citadel Relay.

Interesting, I've been avoiding Andromeda stuff (a weird contradcitory mix of apathy and not wanting spoilers), I've been wondering how much they've been avoiding possibly controversial stuff.