3522 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

I never understood how anybody seriously believed this. I know that people did, of course, but I don't see the mechanism.

 

Because a major plot point in Arrival was that destroying Relays releases enough energy to destroy a system. Couple that with the explosions and the cutting away we see in the ending cutscene and whatever wave nearly destroying the Normandy (as themikefest pointed out even in the high, original EMS endings the Normandy gets thrashed) -- and I think you have a recipe for assumption. Then when you follow it up with the Stargazer scene which talks about a vague history long ago and the Catalyst's Destroy talk about "technology you rely on" it just reinforces that notion that the waves were cataclysmic.

[AlanC9]

Sure, but the first relay we see blow is the one on the Citadel, and it doesn't do anything like nova. But yeah, I guess one could assume that the Citadel relay itself didn't detonate because reasons, and the identical VFX was just Bio being cheap. Still not sure how the Normandy had a planet to crash on.

The collapse of galactic civilization is another matter. I was completely in favor of the relays never being repaired. I think the MEU would be more interesting that way, something along the lines of the Star Trek universe.

Note that Team Dextro in Sol system would be OK as long as any of the quarian liveships survived. (Assuming the quarians survived Rannoch, of course. If not.... oops.) Hell, Bio could just make up an uncolonized dextro world in the local group; humans wouldn't have been likely to turn over such a world to the turians in the pre-ME1 era.

[voteDC]

Sure, but the first relay we see blow is the one on the Citadel, and it doesn't do anything like nova. But yeah, I guess one could assume that the Citadel relay itself didn't detonate because reasons, and the identical VFX was just Bio being cheap. Still not sure how the Normandy had a planet to crash on.

The collapse of galactic civilization is another matter. I was completely in favor of the relays never being repaired. I think the MEU would be more interesting that way, something along the lines of the Star Trek universe.

Note that Team Dextro in Sol system would be OK as long as any of the quarian liveships survived. (Assuming the quarians survived Rannoch, of course. If not.... oops.) Hell, Bio could just make up an uncolonized dextro world in the local group; humans wouldn't have been likely to turn over such a world to the turians in the pre-ME1 era.

I've had a good discussion about this very point. I confess to being on the everyone is dead side.

They made the good point that FTL is still pretty damn fast and that, especially with the Live Ships, the Turians and Quarians could very well survive.

Of course the big issue would be the time dilation of FTL. Those people could find themselves in a completely alien galaxy.

 

 They have done it because people complained so much (just because they couldn't understand that ending) 

Sometimes if people aren't understanding what's been written, the flaw lies with the author.

If there are so many interpretations on what should be a set idea, then just perhaps the idea wasn't clear enough.

Heck it could be that the endings were written for "lots of speculation for everyone", which would deliberately invite misunderstanding of the actual intention.

[rossler]

Sometimes if people aren't understanding what's been written, the flaw lies with the author.

 

If no one could understand the ending, then yes. Otherwise, no.

 

There is a lot of people that did understand what was going on and liked the ending for various reasons.

 

There are also some who understood it, but didn't like it. In addition to pointing out why they didn't like it and what was wrong with it. 

[voteDC]

If no one could understand the ending, then yes. Otherwise, no. There is a lot of people that did understand what was going on and liked the ending for various reasons.

A set idea though, that is meant to mean one thing only, should not be open to the really quite wide variations that people had over the original endings.

It's not a matter of some people liking what they consider to be the intention, because if it were clear then most people would feel the same.

As was written "lot of speculation for everyone" means that it wasn't written to be clear, to convey one intention.

[AlanC9]

Of course the big issue would be the time dilation of FTL.

The what?

[rossler]

Am I to understand that you feel the ending should have only one clear meaning and not many different meanings?

 

For some people, the intention of the ending was quite clear. For others, it wasn't. Hence, why they released DLC to clarify and better explain things.

[AlanC9]

I think we were talking sbout facts, not meaning.

[voteDC]

The what?

Time dilation. The closer you get to the speed of light, the quicker time will run outside of that field. 10 minutes at FTL would seem like 10 minutes to the people travelling at that speed. To the rest of the universe far more time would have passed.

 

Am I to understand that you feel the ending should have only one clear meaning and not many different meanings?

 

For some people, the intention of the ending was quite clear. For others, it wasn't. Hence, why they released DLC to clarify and better explain things.

The endings to Mass Effect 3 according to many in this thread have one meaning and if you didn't like them then you didn't understand them. Please look back at the thread and you will see this.

So my point is that just perhaps the flaw does not lie with the consumer but the author.

[angol fear]

What important details did they change?

 

I don't really recall anything other than a few scenes and lines of dialogue inserted into the already existing content.

 

They changed what happened to the mass relays in some endings because people complained about it.

The added a scene to see, hear and feel victory because people complained about the fact that the endings were too depressive, so they changed the tone of the endings.

 

These details are quite important, I think. But for the rest, I agree, it's just things that are just development of existing content.

[oddball_bg]

So when people don't understand it's because of the author?

You mean that people are all very good readers? They all understand Kubrick's 2001, Refn's only god forgive, Lynch's Lost highway...  or do you mean that people have no responsability in the way they understand things, they are like retarded guys or  babies and the author has to explain everything because they can't do it by themselves?

In Mass Effect the writing has always been on different levels and there has always been implicit writing. You should see how people understand Sovereign speech to see what I mean.

And just like Rossler there were people who understood the endings. Some people didn't need the DLCs to understand. When you still see the "synthetics kill organic blablabla" gif, you know that the problem doesn't come from the writers because it was quite clear in the original ending, and it is now developed in the extended cut.

 

 

 

So intention and interpretation are the same things now? The "lots of speculation for everyone" is about the interpretation of the endings by the player, and what will happen after the choice for him. The intention from the developers is to open the interpretations but the form and the writing give you some limits in your interpretations. It's like any other text, you can't make the text says whatever you want.

Really,I couldn't say it better myself!Again,very very well said!It really makes me sad,though,because most of the people are so one sided and narrow minded,or used to the moronic cliched hollywood crap where everything has to end with a shallow happy ending where they lived happily or smth.Most of the people always want a simple explanation for everything.Well,let me give you that kind of ending for everyone unhappy with the recent ones:

 

"Commander Shepard finds a way to somehow shut down all the reapers with a single blow,then he turns towards the starchild and with the words "Screw you!" enters virtual space and freakin' DELETES it!However,upon exiting virtual space he sees that one last reaper somehow survived the shutdown.He immediately picks up the 920 Cain lying comfortably near him,turns towards the reaper,and in a very calmly manner just utters the phrase "HARVEST THIS!!!"!He then fires the one remaining projectile right into the reapers weakpoint making it explode right away.While watching the last reaper falls he again just mumbles "You shouldn't have messed with a human!",and turns back.But,oh no,everything starts to explode and the whole place begins to crumble.Commander Shepard starts running while everything around him/her collapses.Then with one final leap of faith he/she just jumps in slow motion while everything behind him/her explodes,and then...fade out!Oh no,is he/she alive?!We see the wreck and how everything is still,but wait,something moves!We see his/her hand slowly coming out of the wreck then we see he/she running towards the screen bruised but smiling.Then Commander Shepard grabs whoever your love interest is,and with the words "Let's go home!" start walking towards the sunset.THE END!"

 

All the virgins are happy!

[Reorte]

Time dilation. The closer you get to the speed of light, the quicker time will run outside of that field. 10 minutes at FTL would seem like 10 minutes to the people travelling at that speed. To the rest of the universe far more time would have passed.

But stick a speed in to the equations that's greater than c and you end up with all sorts of problems. We have to assume that FTL is doing something completely different that's outside physics as we know it (or almost, there are a few ideas that may or may not mean anything). In ME we use FTL all the time, between different systems in the same cluster, so it's a non-issue for Mass Effect.
 

The endings to Mass Effect 3 according to many in this thread have one meaning and if you didn't like them then you didn't understand them. Please look back at the thread and you will see this.

So my point is that just perhaps the flaw does not lie with the consumer but the author.

A lot of people understood them fine and thought they were a load of rubbish too, an author trying to write things that he himself didn't understand very well. And even if it had all been well thought out it still doesn't necessarily mean good, any more than a building that stays up and does whatever you need it to do can't be a hideous eyesore that should be wiped off the face of the world ASAP.

[rossler]

A lot of people understood them fine and thought they were a load of rubbish too, an author trying to write things that he himself didn't understand very well. And even if it had all been well thought out it still doesn't necessarily mean good, any more than a building that stays up and does whatever you need it to do can't be a hideous eyesore that should be wiped off the face of the world ASAP.

 

I'm going to disagree here. I'm sure a lot of people will too.

 

 

Really,I couldn't say it better myself!Again,very very well said!It really makes me sad,though,because most of the people are so one sided and narrow minded,or used to the moronic cliched hollywood crap where everything has to end with a shallow happy ending where they lived happily or smth.Most of the people always want a simple explanation for everything.Well,let me give you that kind of ending for everyone unhappy with the recent ones:

 

Here's a thread.

[Reorte]

I'm going to disagree here. I'm sure a lot of people will too.

What are you disagreeing with, that a lot of people thought what I said? That's obviously true. Whether they are right or not to do so is something you can argue about (not that I've heard any argument that doesn't leave me facepalming), but not with the general statement I was making.

[rossler]

What are you disagreeing with, that a lot of people thought what I said? That's obviously true. Whether they are right or not to do so is something you can argue about (not that I've heard any argument that doesn't leave me facepalming), but not with the general statement I was making.

 

With your claim the writers didn't know what they were doing or tried to write about something they didn't understand very well.

[ImaginaryMatter]

 
A lot of people understood them fine and thought they were a load of rubbish too, an author trying to write things that he himself didn't understand very well. And even if it had all been well thought out it still doesn't necessarily mean good, any more than a building that stays up and does whatever you need it to do can't be a hideous eyesore that should be wiped off the face of the world ASAP.

 

The Catalyst can't even keep ideas like 'synthetic' and 'chaos' straight. I guess I'm glad people enjoyed it but when the ending manages to be vague and contradictory at the same time it's -- at least for me -- hard to see the narrative that's there.

 

And for everyone who has to slip in insults when you make a post -- that's probably a sign you're being too emotional about this. I doubt anyone who's posting here is truly objective. At the end of the day though, there was enough contention around the ending to force BioWare/EA's hand about the ending. There was a large movement of not just fans, but developers and others like literary critics who had a range of negative opinions about it. If all you can do is denounce anyone critical as 'not getting it' or wanting a 'shallow, Hollywood ending' you've missed a lot of the legitimate points of contention people had about the ending. Everyone stop being so derogatory.

[rossler]

I think some of those people you were talking about weren't going to be happy unless a complete rewrite was considered. Which would end up upsetting a lot of those who liked the ending.

 

It's a no-win situation. At the end of the day, someone will be upset no matter what happens.

[AlanC9]

Time dilation. The closer you get to the speed of light, the quicker time will run outside of that field. 10 minutes at FTL would seem like 10 minutes to the people travelling at that speed. To the rest of the universe far more time would have passed.

This is just confused. Under standard physics you can't go FTL in the first place; the math says nothing whatsoever about what happens with time dilation at FTL speeds because it can't happen. (You need infinite energy to accelerate to C.) And the Codex is explicit that time dilation isn't a factor when using mass effect drives, probably because the ships aren't coming close to the local value of C. In any event, the typical FTL journey is measured in hours or days

This would be a problem if trying to cross the galaxy with standard FTL drives and no relays. The trip would take decades, which is impractical for anybody but asari and krogan. But you could get the advantages of time dilation with stasis pods.

[angol fear]

The Catalyst can't even keep ideas like 'synthetic' and 'chaos' straight. I guess I'm glad people enjoyed it but when the ending manages to be vague and contradictory at the same time it's -- at least for me -- hard to see the narrative that's there.

And for everyone who has to slip in insults when you make a post -- that's probably a sign you're being too emotional about this. I doubt anyone who's posting here is truly objective. At the end of the day though, there was enough contention around the ending to force BioWare/EA's hand about the ending. There was a large movement of not just fans, but developers and others like literary critics who had a range of negative opinions about it. If all you can do is denounce anyone critical as 'not getting it' or wanting a 'shallow, Hollywood ending' you've missed a lot of the legitimate points of contention people had about the ending. Everyone stop being so derogatory.

Developers and literary critics ? Any source or name ?

[Reorte]

With your claim the writers didn't know what they were doing or tried to write about something they didn't understand very well.

I said that's what I think that a lot of people think. That's not the same as making the claim (that I happen to agree with it is a bit beside the point).

[oddball_bg]

I think some of those people you were talking about weren't going to be happy unless a complete rewrite was considered. Which would end up upsetting a lot of those who liked the ending.

 

It's a no-win situation. At the end of the day, someone will be upset no matter what happens.

Exactly!And kudos to BioWare for not taking the safe route in an AAA title!

[dorktainian]

Exactly!And pros to BioWare for not taking the safe route in an AAA title!

Hang on a mo.  I liked the original ending.  Everything and everyone was pretty much screwed.  Not everything has a happy ending.  Maybe thats the crux of many peoples opinions of the extended cut.  They wrapped it all up in gift wrap and basically indoctrinated everyone.  

[themikefest]

The extended cut was to clarify and explain things better?

 

-it added the what-the-crap evacuation scene. That explains the squadmates getting back on the Normandy, but brings up some questions. Why didn't Harbinger fire at the Normandy destroying it? Why didn't the Normandy just fly to the beam and drop off Shepard instead of doing everything before that? How was the Normandy able to get in front of the beam in a few seconds? Why didn't Shepard give medigel to the squadmates to continue? What was Anderson doing? I don't know what's funnier. The what-the-crap evac scene or the green ending. I would like for Bioware to explain how Steve ended up back on the Normandy.

 

- it fixed the flashbacks when Shepard is choosing whatever ending. This is the best thing I can say about the extended cut that it fixed. I don't know why those flashbacks couldn't of been in the original ending to begin with.

 

-it changed the relays not exploding if ems is above 2600. Before they were exploding no matter what the ems is. What's interesting is if ems is above 2600, the rings in the relay are only damaged, but when the ships are seen flying by a relay, that relay is severely damaged.

 

-it also changed the damage the Normandy received. If ems is above 2600 the beam of goodies doesn't damage the Normandy, but below 2600, the thrusters are seen being ripped from the fuselage just like in the original ending. The Normandy should be in pieces with everyone dead on the unknown planet

 

-it added the slides based on the players playthrough. That was alright

 

-the memorial scene. It was nice. Wasn't nice for people that romanced Miranda or Jack since neither of them can be on the Normandy to hold Shepards nameplate. It also brings up some questions. Who was it that told them Anderson is dead? How do they know Shepard is dead in the blue and green ending? Its hard to say someone is dead without a body. If anything i would have it that Shepard is currently missing. If ems is below 3100 and destroy is chosen, Shepard is dead and the nameplate is put on the wall. I would guess someone discovered the body confirming he/she is dead. Its possible its the same person(s) that discovered Anderson's body. If ems is above 3100, the nameplate isn't put up. That would mean that same person discovered Shepard is alive and there would be no need to hesitate to not putting up the nameplate

 

-the unknown planet. I have no idea what the purpose of having the Normandy on the unknown planet. The extended cut didn't explain or add anything about that. If ems is above 2600, the ship is seen flying off the planet. So what was the purpose of the planet? If ems is below 2600, the Normandy is damaged and the crew is stuck for however long. No idea how long they will be stuck on the planet.

 

-in the extended cut it shows the same number of ships flying by the relay no matter what the ems is unless its below 1750. The other thing is why wasn't any quarian ships shown, if alive?

[angol fear]

The extended cut wasn't to clarify and explain things, it was to fit some players expectations who needed some "developed" part. That is a big difference. So yes in the end it "clarifies and explains" things but it was not the purpose.

[themikefest]

The extended cut wasn't to clarify and explain things, it was to fit some players expectations who needed some "developed" part. That is a big difference. So yes in the end it "clarifies and explains" things but it was not the purpose.

 Then why did you like the post below? Why didn't you make the same comment as above to the post below? It mentions the dlc was to clarify and explain things

 

 

Am I to understand that you feel the ending should have only one clear meaning and not many different meanings?

 

For some people, the intention of the ending was quite clear. For others, it wasn't. Hence, why they released DLC to clarify and better explain things.