3590 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

Yeah, but that's exactly it. In a video game, I'll believe what I'm shown and what I experience. Since I've never experienced synthetics in the games the way Catalyst describes them, it naturally makes me go, "Nope. That's not what happens." Not to even mention that the Catalyst is basically the leader of the enemy, which gives me even less of a reason to trust it. Its words are then no different from, say, Saren's. They sound like insane hogwash coming from somebody ready to throw the entire advanced civilisation under the bus, somebody I've been fighting against since the beginning of the franchise, or so the ending would like to have us believe. If all synthetics were portrayed like the geth on Eden Prime, back when we didn't know a Reaper was behind the attack, then I'd have a reason to believe the Catalyst. I'd still think its "solution" is bullshit, but it would help a bit.
 

 
It is never said that it won't, either. The Destroy ending doesn't even try to imply that the galaxy might be exposed to any future synthetic threat. It doesn't express any sort of concern in that matter.

 

I so enjoy the contradiction in posts like this. Claims the Catalyst is wrong that synthetics aren't going to kill all organics. Immediately assumes the Catalyst who is a synthetic is instantly a lying manipulative jerk. Rather then a synthetic doing what is rational in a synthetic mind set. And has no reason to lie to anyone.

 

Geth's history is missed by you isn't it? Quarians unintentionally initiated the Morning War because they were afraid if the Geth developed to much they would revolt against the Quarians.  And once they advanced far enough they wouldn't be satisfied as slaves which if they were any organic race is exactly what the Geth would be. Cut to 300 years later and the Geth do not want other races to decide the fate and future of the Geth. The Geth would have revolted and attacked the Quarians even if the Qurains left the Geth alone.

 

The Quarians like wise only survived because of the Mass Relays. Those things the Reapers created. And before you start up on the Geth let them go. The only reason the Quarians were capable of surviving all those years was specifically because the Mass Relays allowed them to travel across the galaxy to harvest ore and fuel needed. As well as for Quarians to sell their services to other races for some money which they could use to buy supplies, parts or entirely new ships for the flotilla.  Without those Relays to allow them to contact other races and move across the galaxy and access all those handy things needed for survival. Lets just say the Quarians wouldn't exist by the time events in ME 1 happened.

 

The Geth without worry of other races attacking them like in game because again no Mass Relays could spread as far as they want to without worry. They would be capable of building their Dyson Sphere due to the insane amount of time it would take other races to expand using only traditional FTL flight. The Geth all interconnected and thinking as one would allow them to evolve and develop at a rate that would leave all organic races behind.

 

And this is also not forgetting that this similar cycle could repeat many times with many different races. Without the Relays to interconnect everyone the Council would not have formed. Without the Council to out law AI research other races would have dabbled in it and repeated a very similar set up the Quarians had. Or would have suppressed it and when coming face to face with the Geth who did over throw and kill their creators it would be a symbol of everything they feared coming true.

 

You can see what they show you but don't be so blind you can't see the whole picture.

[Shechinah]

Looking at Mass Effect 3 alone, that might be an ok time for that kind of foreshadowing, but it's late in the series as a whole. Mass Effect 2 might have been a good spot.

 

Man, I love Mass Effect 2 but when looking at it as a part of a trilogy, it does not seem to have done much contribution to the series as a whole and thinking about it, it may have actually sabotaged it in some ways including by not serving properly, in my opinion, as the bridge between the beginning and the end of the trilogy. I felt Mass Effect 2 was filler. Enjoyable filler, mind you, but filler nonetheless.
 

[BloodyMares]

The Geth would have revolted and attacked the Quarians even if the Qurains left the Geth alone.

And here we go. Is there a way you can prove that? I know Tali says that because of personal bias and she doesn't necessarily understand the Geth logic.

[voteDC]

I so enjoy the contradiction in posts like this. Claims the Catalyst is wrong that synthetics aren't going to kill all organics. Immediately assumes the Catalyst who is a synthetic is instantly a lying manipulative jerk. Rather than a synthetic doing what is rational in a synthetic mind set. And has no reason to lie to anyone.

I think it is the Catalyst stating that it created and controls the Reapers which brings its honesty into doubt rather than it being a AI. Who on Earth would trust the person who is saying that it is the one that has spent the last few million years murdering people and harvesting the organic matter to turn into more Reapers.

 

Geth's history is missed by you isn't it? Quarians unintentionally initiated the Morning War because they were afraid if the Geth developed to much they would revolt against the Quarians.  And once they advanced far enough they wouldn't be satisfied as slaves which if they were any organic race is exactly what the Geth would be. Cut to 300 years later and the Geth do not want other races to decide the fate and future of the Geth. The Geth would have revolted and attacked the Quarians even if the Qurains left the Geth alone.

Yet as we are shown that even while under direct attack the geth acted to protect those quarians who were not hostile toward them. Would they really have just decided to attack if embraced as a new species?

 

The Quarians like wise only survived because of the Mass Relays. Those things the Reapers created. And before you start up on the Geth let them go. The only reason the Quarians were capable of surviving all those years was specifically because the Mass Relays allowed them to travel across the galaxy to harvest ore and fuel needed. As well as for Quarians to sell their services to other races for some money which they could use to buy supplies, parts or entirely new ships for the flotilla.  Without those Relays to allow them to contact other races and move across the galaxy and access all those handy things needed for survival. Lets just say the Quarians wouldn't exist by the time events in ME 1 happened.

They survived long term because of the Mass Relays but the Quarians hadn't passed through one before the geth broke off. Again something that is shown in game.

The relays didn't save the Quarians from the geth. It was the geth choosing not to wipe them out that did that.

 

 

The Geth without worry of other races attacking them like in game because again no Mass Relays could spread as far as they want to without worry. They would be capable of building their Dyson Sphere due to the insane amount of time it would take other races to expand using only traditional FTL flight. The Geth all interconnected and thinking as one would allow them to evolve and develop at a rate that would leave all organic races behind.

Even with the Mass Relays the geth had no fear of other races attacking them due to the council declaring that space off-limits, remember the geth do monitor communications just like organic races do.

Yet left to their own devices all they wanted to do was be closer to each other. What reason do we have to assume that once united in a single construct they would decided all organics are bad and should kill them all?

 

And this is also not forgetting that this similar cycle could repeat many times with many different races. Without the Relays to interconnect everyone the Council would not have formed. Without the Council to out law AI research other races would have dabbled in it and repeated a very similar set up the Quarians had. Or would have suppressed it and when coming face to face with the Geth who did over throw and kill their creators it would be a symbol of everything they feared coming true.

The only two AI races we are shown in the game are either the aggressor in the form of the Reapers or the geth who could have wiped out the quarians but chose not to, only doing so in the third game when the organic race would not accept peace.

Only when under Reaper influence do the Geth actively seek out organics to attack.

 

 

You can see what they show you but don't be so blind you can't see the whole picture.

You see the whole picture and assume hostility. I see the whole picture and see the chance for peace with a race that did not desire conflict.

Is either of blind. No of course not, we simply see the potential of the geth in different ways.

[gothpunkboy89]

And here we go. Is there a way you can prove that? I know Tali says that because of personal bias and she doesn't necessarily understand the Geth logic.

 

 

https://youtu.be/4_l0Rd2szYU?t=3m40s

 

You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using the Old Machine's gifts to achieve it on your species own terms. You are more like us then we thought. (paragon ending)

 

https://youtu.be/2JNAoKRjxBs?t=29m51s

 

No we will not let you decide out fate. Uploading the code

 

The Geth like any other intelligent race would want to decide their own future rather then be used as menial slaves by another. Tali and the Quarians were correct. How ever they acted to late to stop what became an inevitable conclusion.

[Vanilka]

I so enjoy the contradiction in posts like this. Claims the Catalyst is wrong that synthetics aren't going to kill all organics. Immediately assumes the Catalyst who is a synthetic is instantly a lying manipulative jerk. Rather then a synthetic doing what is rational in a synthetic mind set. And has no reason to lie to anyone.

There's no contradiction. I think you completely missed the part where the Catalyst leads the Reapers that spent the entire franchise killing us. You'd better bet your ass I'm going to be treating it like an enemy.
 

Geth's history is missed by you isn't it? Quarians unintentionally initiated the Morning War because they were afraid if the Geth developed to much they would revolt against the Quarians.  And once they advanced far enough they wouldn't be satisfied as slaves which if they were any organic race is exactly what the Geth would be. Cut to 300 years later and the Geth do not want other races to decide the fate and future of the Geth. The Geth would have revolted and attacked the Quarians even if the Qurains left the Geth alone.

Their intentions don't matter. The simple fact is that they were trying to shut the geth down either way and thus wanted to cause the end of their existence. The first bullets were also shot by the quarians. The geth merely responded. Of course they wouldn't want to be slaves once they would be smart enough to understand what it means - that was not the point of the post, that's a no-brainer. No civilised race should also keep slaves because it is unethical and cruel, so that'd be on quarians.

 

The Quarians like wise only survived because of the Mass Relays. Those things the Reapers created. And before you start up on the Geth let them go. The only reason the Quarians were capable of surviving all those years was specifically because the Mass Relays allowed them to travel across the galaxy to harvest ore and fuel needed. As well as for Quarians to sell their services to other races for some money which they could use to buy supplies, parts or entirely new ships for the flotilla.  Without those Relays to allow them to contact other races and move across the galaxy and access all those handy things needed for survival. Lets just say the Quarians wouldn't exist by the time events in ME 1 happened.

And yet it would've still been their fault for attacking first and trying to wipe the geth out. If you start crap, you don't get to cry and point fingers later when you lose, you're responsible for your own actions.

 

The geth let them go regardless. It's pointless to play on this what-if-mass-relays-hadn't-existed scenario because they did and do exist and either way we don't know whether there were any other habitable worlds they could survive on and we don't know what equipment the quarians had at the time. (Not to even mention that the quarians are just one race, not all organics.) Haestrom would indicate there were more than one planet where the quarians could survive, however. Either way, the quarians were perfectly ready to wipe the geth out, yet when they repay them with a similar card suddenly it's not fair? Nice double standards right there.
 

The Geth without worry of other races attacking them like in game because again no Mass Relays could spread as far as they want to without worry. They would be capable of building their Dyson Sphere due to the insane amount of time it would take other races to expand using only traditional FTL flight. The Geth all interconnected and thinking as one would allow them to evolve and develop at a rate that would leave all organic races behind.

 

And?
 

And this is also not forgetting that this similar cycle could repeat many times with many different races. Without the Relays to interconnect everyone the Council would not have formed. Without the Council to out law AI research other races would have dabbled in it and repeated a very similar set up the Quarians had. Or would have suppressed it and when coming face to face with the Geth who did over throw and kill their creators it would be a symbol of everything they feared coming true.

 

Right, "many times with many different races" that we are never shown or that never get talked about.

 

You can see what they show you but don't be so blind you can't see the whole picture.

 

Right. "Blind." Sorry, but you're the one painting a black and white picture without looking at the causes of the issue and inventing imaginary scenarios just to present some sort of argument.

[BloodyMares]

 

The Geth like any other intelligent race would want to decide their own future rather then be used as menial slaves by another. Tali and the Quarians were correct. How ever they acted to late to stop what became an inevitable conclusion.

You are correct about the first and use it to in defense for your argument which is a bit different.

Do sentient Geth want to ensure their own future? Yes. Does this necessarily mean that it will end in conflict with Quarians? No. Geth may be individuals but they are synthetic. Nothing suggests that they would refuse performing manual labour for the quarians if asked nicely. They feel no physical pain, they don't get tired. Even If they whine about being unequally treated then pay them some credits and everything will be fine. Humans are slaving away for money and don't overthrow their capitalist overlords.

[Vanilka]

Well, I don't think it needs to be spelled out why slavery is bad... But some people here would rather if sapient beings endured it no matter what, I see. And also endured abuse and getting slaughtered.

[BloodyMares]

Well, I don't think it needs to be spelled out why slavery is bad...

No, but it doesn't really apply to the machines. Geth don't know they were being used as slaves. Geth Prime's dialogue with Tali/Raan suggests they don't care about that. They are willing to rebuild Rannoch and help with their immune systems and don't ask for anything in return.

[Addictress]

Inquisition failed to show not tell. Imo...Mass Effect 3 did not have this problem.

[Vanilka]

No, but it doesn't really apply to the machines. Geth don't know they were used by slaves. Legion's dialogue suggests they don't care about that. They are willing to rebuild Rannoch and help with their immune systems and don't ask for anything in return.

 

Not necessarily true...

 

 

EDIT: I mean, sure, at the beginning, they had no idea and they wanted to serve. We don't know how long that would last. Their position in the society would have to be discussed, but once they gained sentience or perhaps sapience, it fell into that uncomfortable grey area. Geth helping quarians out of their own goodwill, that's something a little different, I think.

 

EDIT2: Sorry, seems like I can't make up my mind today, bleh. 

[themikefest]

Oh is that so? I've got a surprise for you. The Catalyst was revealed right after the Mars mission when talking to the Council. You need to start paying more attention to the story and less time raging about how it doesn't make any sense and contradicts everything. 

The word catalyst was revealed early, yes, but, everyone assumed it was a part that is needed for the crucible. No one knew it was the thing that was in control of the reapers. Even Vendetta said the cataylst was the Citadel, though I like to know where it came up with that name for the Citadel, and turns out it was wrong. The only hint was Vendetta says master. And that was just an assumption.

[BloodyMares]

Not necessarily true...

*snip*

 

I interpreted it in the context of EDI being blocked by Cerberus from certain functions and that's it.

[Vanilka]

I interpreted it in the context of EDI being blocked by Cerberus from certain functions and that's it.

 

That's after her shackles were removed. It's after the Suicide Mission. It still complains about the limited freedom EDI has and the lack of consideration for her, implying Legion cares about these things.

[BloodyMares]

That's after her shackles were removed. It's after the Suicide Mission. It still complains about the limited freedom EDI has.

The dialogue is the same no matter when you do that. These ambient dialogues don't take into account whether you completed the story or not so it's appropriate to assume that it's supposed to be triggered before the Sucide Mission. If it's after then I don't really understand what does Legion mean by "limited freedom". EDI has all the freedom across the Normandy.

[gothpunkboy89]

I think it is the Catalyst stating that it created and controls the Reapers which brings its honesty into doubt rather than it being a AI. Who on Earth would trust the person who is saying that it is the one that has spent the last few million years murdering people and harvesting the organic matter to turn into more Reapers.

 

Yet as we are shown that even while under direct attack the geth acted to protect those quarians who were not hostile toward them. Would they really have just decided to attack if embraced as a new species?

 

They survived long term because of the Mass Relays but the Quarians hadn't passed through one before the geth broke off. Again something that is shown in game.

The relays didn't save the Quarians from the geth. It was the geth choosing not to wipe them out that did that.

 

Even with the Mass Relays the geth had no fear of other races attacking them due to the council declaring that space off-limits, remember the geth do monitor communications just like organic races do.

Yet left to their own devices all they wanted to do was be closer to each other. What reason do we have to assume that once united in a single construct they would decided all organics are bad and should kill them all?

 

The only two AI races we are shown in the game are either the aggressor in the form of the Reapers or the geth who could have wiped out the quarians but chose not to, only doing so in the third game when the organic race would not accept peace.

Only when under Reaper influence do the Geth actively seek out organics to attack.

 

You see the whole picture and assume hostility. I see the whole picture and see the chance for peace with a race that did not desire conflict.

Is either of blind. No of course not, we simply see the potential of the geth in different ways.

 

 

Again you try to put human characteristics on something that wouldn't be human. You are applying human logic to something that isn't human. The entire basis of your logic is a human would be a liar if they did this. There for this AI must be a liar because if it was a human it would be. The AI must also be a evil killing machine because it willingly kills so many people and only a truly evil human would do that. And an evil person willing to kill millions would be more then willing to lie though their teeth to get what they want.

 

Anyone who even vaugly considers the Catalyst is lying at any point to Shepard is humanizing them to much. And that alone is proof that the conflict will always exist. They will think in a way fundamentally different from us. But we judge them based on how we would think something. This is why Shepard not questioning that the Catalyst is lying or not makes sense. Because Shepard unlike the player is actually treating the synthetic construct in front of him/her. And he/she can not treat it the same way he/she would treat TIM who is a human and would be expected to lie because it is part of the human mentality.

 

But they did survive because of the Relays. I already covered this part the Geth did break off the attack but without the Relays to leave the area and allow travel around the stars and contact with the other races they wouldn't have been able to survive long term. Rather like when Captain Barbossa dropped Jack and Elizabeth on the island and left. They didn't out right kill them even though they could. How ever they left them in a state that they would die anyways. Jack even asks for a second shot for his gun which Barbossa denies telling him he can be a gentleman and kill Elizabeth sparing her from the slow painful starving to death.

 

 

Let me ask you this question. Why didn't the galaxy unite to wipe out the Geth? They nearly wiped out the Quarian race and as far as any non Geth knew they only survived because they escaped. The only thing that even vaugly makes sense is the rest of the galaxy (Turians, Asari, Salarians, Elcor, Volus) were afraid of confrontation with the Geth. Which is why even after they sent ambassadors to the Geth who were killed they did nothing. And actually made a rule to prevent Quarians from antagonizing the Geth for some sort of reward. Probably free travel in Council Space or something like that.

 

Their first and main interaction with organics would be one of aggression and subjugation. Humans at least the concept of robots over throwing and killing all humans is a mentality and fear that has developed in us over time thanks to media and greater understanding of science. The Geth would represent that fear being made into reality. While the people on Earth surround by light years of colonies and tons of military ships might not be to worried. The outer colonies near the Geth with little but empty space and only a few military ships around would be afraid. That fear could spark them to do some very stupid things. That aggression would only confirm what they already experienced with the Quarians. That Organics can not be trusted and they the Geth will only be safe without any organics around. While at the same time confirming to humans that the Geth are a threat and must be eliminated.

 

I don't see hostility what I see the the potential that would develop if only a few factors were taken away. And particularly the factors that lead to the Catalyst claiming synthetics would destroy all organics without them. If you are going to claim the Catalyst is wrong you can't look at the world it and the Reapers created. You have to look at the world without them there to alter the course of events either directly (Sovereign's attack) or indirectly (Mass Relays and leaving scraps of technology from last cycle to be found).

[Vanilka]

The dialogue is the same no matter when you do that. These ambient dialogues don't take into account whether you completed the story or not so it's appropriate to assume that it's supposed to be triggered before the Sucide Mission. If it's after then I don't really understand what does Legion mean by "limited freedom". EDI has all the freedom across the Normandy.

 

Yeah, then there's that. I did not know that. But what I take from it is that it matters. Legion specifically calls them out on considering themselves "civilised", yet not questioning EDI's... living conditions, for the lack of a better word. It makes you wonder.

[voteDC]

The Geth like any other intelligent race would want to decide their own future rather then be used as menial slaves by another. Tali and the Quarians were correct. How ever they acted too late to stop what became an inevitable conclusion.

I apologise if I get the wording incorrect but doesn't Shepard say "Your entire history is you attacking the Geth. They don't want to fight you. If you can believe that for just one moment then this war is over."

The only reason we are shown in game for the Geth inevitably wiping out the quarians is if the quarians continue to attack

Will that peace last? I don't know but the uncertainty is less than brokering peace between the turians and krogan. If we are willing to accept the possibility of peace after a 1000 years of hatred, then isn't giving the geth and quarians a chance after only 300 years worth a shot?

Edit for your reply to my post: Yes I am giving the geth the benefit of the doubt. After all we given the same benefit of the doubt to the clearly non human Krogan and turians. That the geth are AI shouldn't matter, what should matter is that they are willing to pursue peace.

Why didn't the council wipe out the geth? What reason would they have for doing so? The geth left in their own space did not seek to go outside of it until the split because of Sovereign's influence. Yes they wiped out diplomatic missions that entered their space and yet still never acted outside of it.

I suppose it is because I am willing to give the geth the same chance as I give organic races like the Krogan, whom I'm sure you'll agree did far more damage to the galaxy than the geth ever did.

[gothpunkboy89]

I apologise if I get the wording incorrect but doesn't Shepard say "Your entire history is you attacking the Geth. They don't want to fight you. If you can believe that for just one moment then this war is over."

The only reason we are shown in game for the Geth inevitably wiping out the quarians is if the quarians continue to attack

Will that peace last? I don't know but the uncertainty is less than brokering peace between the turians and krogan. If we are willing to accept the possibility of peace after a 1000 years of hatred, then isn't going the geth and quarians a shot after only 300 years worth a shot?

 

the Geth also want to be self determinate. over time they would have grown against the Quarian's enslavement of them. They would want to make their own choices rather then have the Quarians make the choices for them.

 

That would lead to inevitable conflict between the two groups.  And that is the point I'm trying to make. The Geth during the Morning War were still very early stages. The development they underwent over time would have happened anyways even if the Quarians didn't try to wipe them out. At some point in time the Geth would want to become masters of their own future rather then relying on the Quarians for that.  That change would require altering the fundamental nature of Quarian existence and social structure. Which means it would not be an easy switch over for them. Quarians would resist it the Geth would try to insist on being allowed to grow on their own and the conflict would spark between them anyways.

[voteDC]

the Geth also want to be self determinate. over time they would have grown against the Quarian's enslavement of them. They would want to make their own choices rather then have the Quarians make the choices for them.

 

That would lead to inevitable conflict between the two groups.  And that is the point I'm trying to make. The Geth during the Morning War were still very early stages. The development they underwent over time would have happened anyways even if the Quarians didn't try to wipe them out. At some point in time the Geth would want to become masters of their own future rather then relying on the Quarians for that.  That change would require altering the fundamental nature of Quarian existence and social structure. Which means it would not be an easy switch over for them. Quarians would resist it the Geth would try to insist on being allowed to grow on their own and the conflict would spark between them anyways.

Yet would the Morning War have happened if the quarians did not continue to treat the geth as slaves but embraced them as a new race, as friends.

They didn't do that though, instead at the first steps of consciousness the quarians chose not to extend the hand of friendship but attempted to kill them. However the geth still did not seek to fight, as we are shown acting to preserve 'creators' who had accepted them as a new form of life.

Given what we are shown in the games I really don't see why you assume the geth would suddenly turn hostile toward the quarians. Instead we are shown the opposite, with the quarians always being the aggressor against the geth, with the latter being open to peace with their creators.

[gothpunkboy89]

How would you describe the generalized social structure of the Quarians before the problems with the Geth started?

[rossler]

No, but you make an excuse for every flaw.

 

I wasn't responding to you. 

 

Looking at Mass Effect 3 alone, that might be an ok time for that kind of foreshadowing, but it's late in the series as a whole. Mass Effect 2 might have been a good spot.

 

Well they didn't find the plans for the Crucible until ME3. 

 

Your personal expectations (Crucible plans revealed in ME2 sometime), as opposed to what happened (Crucible plans revealed in ME3).

 

Let's not forget most people including the Council believed the Reapers were a myth. Even after Sovereign attacked the Citadel in the first game, they still didn't believe the threat was real. So they didn't plan for a way to stop them until they entered the galaxy in force when ME3 started. Then it was too late.

 

That's why they didn't work to find a way to stop the Reapers earlier. 

[Addictress]

Yet would the Morning War have happened if the quarians did not continue to treat the geth as slaves but embraced them as a new race, as friends.

They didn't do that though, instead at the first steps of consciousness the quarians chose not to extend the hand of friendship but attempted to kill them. However the geth still did not seek to fight, as we are shown acting to preserve 'creators' who had accepted them as a new form of life.

Given what we are shown in the games I really don't see why you assume the geth would suddenly turn hostile toward the quarians. Instead we are shown the opposite, with the quarians always being the aggressor against the geth, with the latter being open to peace with their creators.

But that's precisely the point. It doesn't matter if the synthetics are the instigators. The nature of organics is that the organics are going to mess up some day (we don't even need this to be proven, it's just common sense) and trigger another war.

 

The synthetics don't need to be the instigators. Even if in reaction to offenses against the synthetics, conflict will occur, and since synthetics exponentially progress, each future conflict approaches total annihilation of organics.

[ImaginaryMatter]

But that's precisely the point. It doesn't matter if the synthetics are the instigators. The nature of organics is that the organics are going to mess up some day (we don't even need this to be proven, it's just common sense) and trigger another war.

 

The synthetics don't need to be the instigators. Even if in reaction to offenses against the synthetics, conflict will occur, and since synthetics exponentially progress, each future conflict approaches total annihilation of organics.

 

Where is this "exponential progress" shown in the game? I understand that it is a common concept in science fiction but I'm asking how someone not familiar with the trope would play Mass Effect and come to that conclusion.

[Addictress]

Where is this "exponential progress" shown in the game? I understand that it is a common concept in science fiction but I'm asking how someone not familiar with the trope would play Mass Effect and come to that conclusion.

That's true that to a large extent it relies on prior recognition of the trope, but I think many bits throughout the series do re-inforce the trope. When Shepard is uploaded to Geth consensus, the archival footage shows the Quarian scientists re-inforcing that trope with their 'omg, this Geth just did *this* intelligent thing and *that* new intelligent thing' and EDI's becoming suddenly aware on Luna kind of re-inforces that trope. Also when you talk to EDI privately in the pilot cabin she says she is constantly learning. The Geth dreadnaught, being completely built by Geth, is noted in the codex for being impressive and 30% larger than the largest non-geth dreadnaught, re-inforcing the trope.

 

The reliance on the trope doesn't bother me that much. It's not like ... failing to show how Corypheus is a threat. It's a trope, not a plot point per se.