3578 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

Reapers? ("the catalyst has been destroyed")

After the next cycle dealt with them, sure, but not when Shepard refuses to use the crucible
 

The catalyst is controlling the citadel during ME3 ending.

ok
 

The catalyst seems to be unable to control the citadel during ME1.

And that's the problem. ME3, being the third game in the trilogy, is the best place to start playing a trilogy. So ME1/2 never happened.
 

This would be a contradiction if the situation was the same.
But it is not the same. There is a huge difference. The reapers conquered and retake full control of the citadel before ME3 ending.

They do. What's controlling the reapers? The thing called catalyst aka intelligence.

[Natureguy85]

1. She is supposed to handle concrete things like ships. The catalyst is supposed to analize variables. He might need an "extra-help" to handle complex concrete things as mass relays.

 

2. connections are exactly what makes you more detectable. A direct informatic connection/telecommunication network between the catalyst and the mass relay could expose both of them. It's the classic "weak link". We can't know the complexity of such an operation (opening a mass relay) and the network required for it.

 

It could be easier to conceal it within the global network of the citadel (with the keepers as ""barrier), rather than create a parallel, isolated network.

 

 

3. ok

 

4 e 5. as I've said, connections between nodes, data exchange etc are dangerous, especially in informatic, but not only. Connections always leave a trace. 

 

6. I'm trying to make hypothesis, not to be too abstract, but in the end

 

1) The ship is nothing like the body. You're being as broad as you need to in order to make your preconceived idea possible.

 

2) How, when neither are known to Organics? As for weak link, that's relying on the Keepers when you have an intelligence on board.

 

3) Not when you can't see either end or the middle of the "trail."

 

6) No, you're just making things up.

 

 

Vigil didn't even know the catalyst exist. So when he said that the keepers respond to the citadel, he means the space station/power source, and not the AI. He means that they are now indipendent from the reapers influnce.

 

 

The Catalyst didn't exist in ME1.

[kal_reegar]

 

 

After the next cycle dealt with them, sure, but not when Shepard refuses to use the crucible
 

 

sorry, my bad.

I meant ""the crucible has been destroyed" (it appears if shepard wait and doesn't pick a color).

 

 

 

Wait...why are you forcing this to work? You already said that this does not need headcanon to work so why are you pushing these two obviously contradictory elements together without specifying the source material?

 

 

 

this is a common interpretation rule, often used in european (messed and often contradictory) legal system.

it is called "systematic interpretation".

 

 

The systematic interpretation requires a correlation and a comparison because the meaning of the provision is determined taking into account the connection with other provisions.

It is essentially based on the context in which it appears the provision to be interpreted and on the presumption that the legal system is equipped with some consistency.

In other words, we can call logical and systematic interpretation the one that seeks to exclude those meanings that would make the text inconsistent with the system.

 

 

 

Also the Catalyst literally says the citadel is PART of him, so yes...the Citadel IS Literally the catalyst.

 

 

something being part of something else doens't necessarly mean that there is perfect coincidence and indenticalness between the two things.

 

A I--------------------------------I B

                                      C I--------------------------------I D

 

A-B = the catalyst

C-D = the citadel

 

C-B: "the citadel is part of me"

 

 

 

Of course, it could be also

 

A I--------------------------------I B

C I------------------------------ -I D

 

but not necessarely

[kal_reegar]

 

 

2) How, when neither are known to Organics? As for weak link, that's relying on the Keepers when you have an intelligence on board.

 

 

 

3) Not when you can't see either end or the middle of the "trail."

 

 

the concept of discovery, detection, implies previous ignorance.

only something that you don't know can be detected.

the fact that you ignore the existence of something doesn't make impossible it's detection. On the contrary, ignorance it is the necessary, logic, prerequisite.

 

 

 

 

1) The ship is nothing like the body. You're being as broad as you need to in order to make your preconceived idea possible.

 

ships and bodies are both corporeal things..

variables are abstract, mass relays are corporeal. You may need an extra node/connection to control them.

 

 

 

 

 

The Catalyst didn't exist in ME1.

 

 

yes, it is a retcon.

assume it did, just for now. Don't metegame

[voteDC]

It was my understanding that Mass Effect was always intended to be a trilogy. If that is the case then the basics for the final entry would have been laid at the very beginning.

Things change of course but to maintain consistency would require at least a basic outline, so the idea of an intelligence at the Citadel would have been there.

Yet it is hard looking at the events of Mass Effect 1 to see that is the case. A turtled up Citadel doesn't seem to block all signals, so why did Sovereign need to dock to activate the relay?

[gothpunkboy89]

It was my understanding that Mass Effect was always intended to be a trilogy. If that is the case then the basics for the final entry would have been laid at the very beginning.

Things change of course but to maintain consistency would require at least a basic outline, so the idea of an intelligence at the Citadel would have been there.

Yet it is hard looking at the events of Mass Effect 1 to see that is the case. A turtled up Citadel doesn't seem to block all signals, so why did Sovereign need to dock to activate the relay?

 

Because the signal that is used to trigger the Keepers was altered. So it needed manual access to change that.

 

I know it is just head cannon but I think the Catalyst is what killed Sovereign. Harbinger is capable of possessing multiple Collector bodies as Shepard mows them down one after the other. Not only is the Collector General fine but so is Harbinger. Shepard killing one supped up husk doesn't make sense why it would suffer a sudden and complete system failure. That dropped it's barrier allowing the Frigates and Cruisers that were previous doing nothing to damage it and destroy it. How ever the Catalyst forcing Sovereign to short out as it wants to see how far this cycle will go and how much will change suddenly makes that whole set up make sense.

[BloodyMares]

 

something being part of something else doens't necessarly mean that there is perfect coincidence and indenticalness between the two things.

 

A I----------------------------C-----------------------------------I B

                                      

 

A-B = the catalyst

C-B = the citadel

 

C-B: "the citadel is part of me"

 

Fixed. He says "The Citadel is part of me" (I am the whole, Citadel is just a part of me), not "I am the part of the Citadel".

Your second set of lines doesn't say "The Citadel is part of me". It says "I AM the Citadel". Don't you know what the "part" means? My brain is a part of me. My body is a part of me. But I am not the part of my body because I am the sum of all my parts, not the other way around.

[Vanilka]

It was my understanding that Mass Effect was always intended to be a trilogy. If that is the case then the basics for the final entry would have been laid at the very beginning.

Things change of course but to maintain consistency would require at least a basic outline, so the idea of an intelligence at the Citadel would have been there.

Yet it is hard looking at the events of Mass Effect 1 to see that is the case. A turtled up Citadel doesn't seem to block all signals, so why did Sovereign need to dock to activate the relay?

 
It has been confirmed by Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer himself, that they had some rough ideas, but ended up going in a different direction. Basically, they really didn't know while making ME1, it would seem. They started scattering around hints for the dark energy plot in ME2, trying to build ground for it (Hence all the dark energy talk during Tali's missions that leads nowhere.), which they ended up scrapping. Various writers came and went throughout the development of the franchise, latter including Mr Karpyshyn and eventually Chris L'Etoile (who, as I understood, was responsible for the technobabble and characters like Ashley and Legion). Thus, the games quite understandably changed with it.

[voteDC]

So essentially they planned for a trilogy but had no plans for the trilogy. Not a huge surprise given the disparate feel of the three games.

[kal_reegar]

Fixed. He says "The Citadel is part of me" (I am the whole, Citadel is just a part of me), not "I am the part of the Citadel".

Your second set of lines doesn't say "The Citadel is part of me". It says "I AM the Citadel". Don't you know what the "part" means? My brain is a part of me. My body is a part of me. But I am not the part of my body because I am the sum of all my parts, not the other way around.

 

 

WTF, man... the citadel is space station, and the catalyst is an AI located in it...

 

they partially overlap, like hardware and sofware if you want, nothing more. They can perfectly exist without each other (at least the citadel can, as we can see in the destroy ending... strange, being a part of a whole no longer existing ),

above all, even if we admit the the citadel is the catalyst (the whole), the parts of the whole are not necessarly directly controlled by the whole (as olistic emergence)...

 

 

by the way, you (olistic emergence) are part of your body.

If I remove just a little, little piece of, let's say, your brain, or your heart, you are no more. Gone. So yes, it's also the other way around.

[Natureguy85]

the concept of discovery, detection, implies previous ignorance.
only something that you don't know can be detected.
the fact that you ignore the existence of something doesn't make impossible it's detection. On the contrary, ignorance it is the necessary, logic, prerequisite.

"Ignorance" meaning not know and "ignore" are not related. Anyway, this is meaningless. You still have not and likely can not explain how two unknown systems being connected is somehow more detectable.

ships and bodies are both corporeal things..
variables are abstract, mass relays are corporeal. You may need an extra node/connection to control them.

So because I know how to drive my car, I can fly a plane? Like I said, you're just being as generic as you need to be to make your point work. That's not a thinking exercise. There's no reason for the Catalyst to be unable to send an "on" command.

yes, it is a retcon.
assume it did, just for now. Don't metegame

I'm analyzing the writing as a whole. The Catalyst doesn't fit and I'm not interested in making up BS to try and make it fit.

Because the signal that is used to trigger the Keepers was altered. So it needed manual access to change that.

I know it is just head cannon but I think the Catalyst is what killed Sovereign. Harbinger is capable of possessing multiple Collector bodies as Shepard mows them down one after the other. Not only is the Collector General fine but so is Harbinger. Shepard killing one supped up husk doesn't make sense why it would suffer a sudden and complete system failure. That dropped it's barrier allowing the Frigates and Cruisers that were previous doing nothing to damage it and destroy it. How ever the Catalyst forcing Sovereign to short out as it wants to see how far this cycle will go and how much will change suddenly makes that whole set up make sense.

This isn't a bad idea but something like that should have been in the game. At the time of ME1, it made sense that Sovereign had a problem when he actively controlled Saren rather than relying on Indoctrination. ME2 undermined that but it could have been that using the Collector General as a proxy protected Harbinger and the time between possessions is the General recovering. I'd probably think up a different reason "why," but this could be made to work.

[rossler]

I'm analyzing the writing as a whole. The Catalyst doesn't fit and I'm not interested in making up BS to try and make it fit.

 

The main story, Extended Cut and Leviathan say otherwise. 

[Natureguy85]

The main story, Extended Cut and Leviathan say otherwise. 

 

The main story doesn't. The Extended Cut and Leviathan are arguments after the fact since they came out afterward. The EC doesn't support the Catalyst fitting into the larger story. Leviathan helps, but it's still late.

[themikefest]

The main story, Extended Cut and Leviathan say otherwise. 

Did the original ending say otherwise as well?

[rossler]

The main story doesn't. The Extended Cut and Leviathan are arguments after the fact since they came out afterward. The EC doesn't support the Catalyst fitting into the larger story. Leviathan helps, but it's still late.

 

Hmm, it fits because you were told the Reapers were servants of the cycle, not their master. 

 

Did the original ending say otherwise as well?

 

It fit as long as you didn't view the logic as "organics create synthetics who then turn and destroy organics every 50k years". 

 

People forgot about the whole harvesting thing he talked about, which was foreshadowed in the beginning of the game

 

To harvest something is to reap it...Hence the Reapers. 

 

Of course, I've debated this months ago, where people think harvesting is the same thing as killing. So they put it all in the same meaning, even if it isn't. 

[Natureguy85]

Hmm, it fits because you were told the Reapers were servants of the cycle, not their master. 

 

Yes, and that was shoved into the series late in the last game. I also would have expected more than a stupid AI.

 

 

 

 

It fit as long as you didn't view the logic as "organics create synthetics who then turn and destroy organics every 50k years". 

 

So then don't look at Leviathan?

 

Nobody forgot about the Harvest. There is no point to the Harvest. We harvest food to eat. We harvest energy to use for other purposes. The Reapers "harvest" civilization to stuff into robots... ok, why? What use is the "preserved knowledge" or "essence?"

 

You also can't seem to make distinctions between Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect the series. We're talking about if this fits with Mass Effect 1, not the start of ME3.

[rossler]

Yes, and that was shoved into the series late in the last game. I also would have expected more than a stupid AI.

 

Did you really expect their creator to be shoved in ME1 somewhere? 

 

So then don't look at Leviathan?

 

I just played it for fun, but it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. Huskhead was fun though. 

 

Nobody forgot about the Harvest. There is no point to the Harvest. We harvest food to eat. We harvest energy to use for other purposes. The Reapers "harvest" civilization to stuff into robots... ok, why? What use is the "preserved knowledge" or "essence?"

 

They view themselves as the pinnacle of evolution. Once everyone is ascended into Reaper form, they will complete their harvest.

 

The terms used are just how they describe the process. That is how they see it. You as a player might think it's silly or pointless to mention such things, but they don't. But hey, people did ask how certain things worked, because the original ending didn't go into detail. The Extended Cut gave people the details, and now you don't like the explanation, because it's not how you would have done it. 

 

You also can't seem to make distinctions between Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect the series. We're talking about if this fits with Mass Effect 1, not the start of ME3.

 

Sure I can. And it does fit with what Sovereign said in ME1. 

 

Sovereign: We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence...

Sovereign: We are the end of everything (pinnacle of evolution). 

Kid: Synthesis is the final evolution of all life (pinnacle of evolution), but we need each other to make it happen.  

[Natureguy85]

Did you really expect their creator to be shoved in ME1 somewhere?

 

No, but I expected it to not violate what came before, which it does. I don't like Retcons, generally speaking. In the rare cases they work well, like in Star Wars with Vader being Luke's father, the characters and story acknowledge the contradiction and deal with it. I expected their creators to be long gone, ancient history. I'm mixed on us actually meeting Leviathans.

 

 

 

I just played it for fun, but it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. Huskhead was fun though. 

 

True, Leviathan just repeats what the Catalyst says. The DLC was an attempt to inject it earlier into the story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They view themselves as the pinnacle of evolution. Once everyone is ascended into Reaper form, they will complete their harvest.

 

The terms used are just how they describe the process. That is how they see it. You as a player might think it's silly or pointless to mention such things, but they don't. But hey, people did ask how certain things worked, because the original ending didn't go into detail. The Extended Cut gave people the details, and now you don't like the explanation, because it's not how you would have done it.

 

According to Sovereign but not the Catalyst. According to the latter, Synthesis is the pinnacle. Not only is not everyone ascended into a Reaper, but they never will be since they always leave the younger species to grow.

 

It's not how I would have done it because it's stupid nonsense. The Catalyst is trying to convince us that it's good and we should help it, but doesn't say anything that would convince us of the value of being made into a Reaper. This ties into the individual vs the collective that pops up a bit in the series.

 

 

 

Sure I can. And it does fit with what Sovereign said in ME1. 

 

Sovereign: We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence...

Sovereign: We are the end of everything (pinnacle of evolution). 

Kid: Synthesis is the final evolution of all life (pinnacle of evolution), but we need each other to make it happen.

 

No. Sovereign says "we are the end of everything," in reference to their destruction of civilizations. They are the "enders." And again, while the Reapers eventually represent a crude form of synthesis between Organic and Synthetic, they are not Synthesis as described/shown in the ME3 ending.

You're twisting what was said and using it out of context. The only way you could have this possibly make any kind of sense would be to say Sovereign was deluded and the Catalyst hides the master plan from the Reapers. However, Harbinger seems to know there is a reason for what they do.

[BloodyMares]

WTF, man... the citadel is space station, and the catalyst is an AI located in it...

 

they partially overlap, like hardware and sofware if you want, nothing more. They can perfectly exist without each other (at least the citadel can, as we can see in the destroy ending... strange, being a part of a whole no longer existing ),

above all, even if we admit the the citadel is the catalyst (the whole), the parts of the whole are not necessarly directly controlled by the whole (as olistic emergence)...

 

 

by the way, you (olistic emergence) are part of your body.

If I remove just a little, little piece of, let's say, your brain, or your heart, you are no more. Gone. So yes, it's also the other way around.

So what? Catalyst wasn't always on the Citadel, was he? Catalyst built it for himself via Reapers. Citadel is one part of the Catalyst, the Reapers are another (collective intelligence and all that).

You're right, Catalyst is the software and Citadel is the hardware. Let me tell you a real story that happened to me. One time I couldn't shutdown my laptop. No matter which option I chose, it didn't respond to my input. Only when I disconnected the cable, the laptop eventually ran out of power. My laptop is not a sophisticated AI but it's one example of software controlling my hardware without my input. So tell me, why wouldn't the Catalyst be able to control every system of the Citadel in the same manner if you consider that he built it for himself?

Biologically, yes, I am the part of my body. But what if religion was true and my consciousness would be able to exist on its own as a ghost? Would I be the part of my body or would it be the other way around?

[gothpunkboy89]

 

 

This isn't a bad idea but something like that should have been in the game. At the time of ME1, it made sense that Sovereign had a problem when he actively controlled Sovereign rather than relying on Indoctrination. ME2 undermined that but it could have been that using the Collector General as a proxy protected Harbinger and the time between possessions is the General recovering. I'd probably think up a different reason "why," but this could be made to work.

 

It didn't make any sense that Sovereign would suffer a complete system failure for the destruction of a single supped up husk when Shepard just on the Citadel has already killed a couple dozen without problem. Even if we take the route it stunned him a bit that isn't the same as a complete feed back over load that took down every system Sovereign had going including it's kinetic barrier.

 

I mean seriously it goes from fighting Shepard and picking off Alliance ships like no problem. To complete shut down with the death of a single possessed husk.

[rossler]

No, but I expected it to not violate what came before, which it does. I don't like Retcons, generally speaking. In the rare cases they work well, like in Star Wars with Vader being Luke's father, the characters and story acknowledge the contradiction and deal with it. I expected their creators to be long gone, ancient history. I'm mixed on us actually meeting Leviathans.

 

It doesn't violate what comes before. It fits with what was previously stated.

 

It's not how I would have done it because it's stupid nonsense. The Catalyst is trying to convince us that it's good and we should help it, but doesn't say anything that would convince us of the value of being made into a Reaper. This ties into the individual vs the collective that pops up a bit in the series.

 

It's not how you would have done it? Well, there's the problem right there. Bioware gives you their explanation, and it doesn't match what you would have done. 

 

You're twisting what was said and using it out of context. The only way you could have this possibly make any kind of sense would be to say Sovereign was deluded and the Catalyst hides the master plan from the Reapers. However, Harbinger seems to know there is a reason for what they do.

 

It does make sense. To the writers and to me. 

 

No. Sovereign says "we are the end of everything," in reference to their destruction of civilizations. They are the "enders." And again, while the Reapers eventually represent a crude form of synthesis between Organic and Synthetic, they are not Synthesis as described/shown in the ME3 ending.

 

You're taking what it says word for word. Literally at face value. 

 

Well you only had the partial explanation of synthesis in ME1. While ME2 and ME3 give you the full details. Of course, like the Catalyst, you probably expect the full explanation in ME1 too. Instead of saving it for later. It's how you would have done it. 

[kal_reegar]

 

 

"Ignorance" meaning not know and "ignore" are not related. Anyway, this is meaningless. You still have not and likely can not explain how two unknown systems being connected is somehow more detectable.

 

because the more a thing is inter-connected with other things, the more detectable/cognizable it becomes.

it's a general epistemological rule.

We know and discover things through thier relations and mutual influences with other things.

 

 

 

So because I know how to drive my car, I can fly a plane? Like I said, you're just being as generic as you need to be to make your point work. That's not a thinking exercise. There's no reason for the Catalyst to be unable to send an "on" command.

 

well, of course.

a good F1 driver can become pretty easily a good airplane pilot, yes. See Niki Lauda, for example.

On the other hand, I doubt that a good F1 driver can become a good quantum physicist, yes.

And viceversa of course. A good quantum physicist can become a good nuclear physicist. Perhaps not F1 champion

 

 

I'm not saying that the catalyst is unable to send an "on" command. Simply, the "on command" is first received and "filtered" by the keepers.

Could be a necessity born from inherent limitations or protocols (for example, EDI asked Joker to be freed; and freedom changed her a lot. Was the catalyst freed by someone? Was he willing to be freed and face an eventual change or perspective? Perhaps he want to be immutable, static, and this is why he seems to be more like an VI than an AI)... or could be a over-cautious choiche.

 

 

 

 

So what? Catalyst wasn't always on the Citadel, was he? Catalyst built it for himself via Reapers. Citadel is one part of the Catalyst, the Reapers are another (collective intelligence and all that).

 

 

yes, but they are two different things.

I can speak about the citadel and it's functions as a space station without the catalyst having any relevance.

As I can speak about lot of the functions of your body without you and your personality/soul having any relevance.

 

 

 

You're right, Catalyst is the software and Citadel is the hardware. Let me tell you a real story that happened to me. One time I couldn't shutdown my laptop. No matter which option I chose, it didn't respond to my input. Only when I disconnected the cable, the laptop eventually ran out of power. My laptop is not a sophisticated AI but it's one example of software controlling my hardware without my input. So tell me, why wouldn't the Catalyst be able to control every system of the Citadel in the same manner if you consider that he built it for himself?

 

 

because the more complex yout system/network is (and I fear that the citadel-relay is the most, or one of the most, complex construction in the galaxy, perhaps the apex of technology), the more nodes, connections etc you will need.

Do you realize that in order to work your laptop needs a lot of components, a cpu, a programs, electric circuits etc etc?

When you push the "on" button, a lot of things happen... and if a little internal component  is broken, or a file is damaged, or a code has been changed, you might not be able to control your laptop.

 

 

 

Biologically, yes, I am the part of my body. But what if religion was true and my consciousness would be able to exist on its own as a ghost? Would I be the part of my body or would it be the other way around?

 

 

If you are pure immortal spirit, able to survive unchanged outside a transitory corporeal form, you are not part of your body and your body is not part of you.

In this case the difference between the "structure" and the "intelligence" is even more pronounced.

[BloodyMares]

yes, but they are two different things.

I can speak about the citadel and it's functions as a space station without the catalyst having any relevance.

As I can speak about lot of the functions of your body without you and your personality/soul having any relevance.

 

 

 

because the more complex yout system/network is (and I fear that the citadel-relay is the most, or one of the most, complex construction in the galaxy, perhaps the apex of technology), the more nodes, connections etc you will need.

Do you realize that in order to work your laptop needs a lot of components, a cpu, a programs, electric circuits etc etc?

When you push the "on" button, a lot of things happen... and if a little internal component  is broken, or a file is damaged, or a code has been changed, you might not be able to control your laptop.

 

 

 

If you are pure immortal spirit, able to survive unchanged outside a transitory corporeal form, you are not part of your body and your body is not part of you.

In this case the difference between the "structure" and the "intelligence" is even more pronounced.

Alright. I see no point in continuing this petty debate really. I know that you're aware of the issues as you stated several times before and you just want the trilogy to be consistent. You filled the holes and made everything seem consistent for yourself. Therefore I'm happy for you. Peace, fellow human.

[kal_reegar]

Alright. I see no point in continuing this petty debate really. I know that you're aware of the issues as you stated several times before and you just want the trilogy to be consistent. You filled the holes and made everything seem consistent for yourself. Therefore I'm happy for you. Peace, fellow human.

 

I filled the holes with petty examples because you demand it

 

I'm perfectly fine with general and abstract statements and interpretations, like "if we assume that during the event of ME1 the catalyst had not direct control over the citadel functions and/or the keepers , ME1 plot makes sense". I don't need to further deepen to be an happy fellow human.

I don't need to think up a more detailed and specific explanation: in fact, I really believe that any decent sci-fi writer can give you a hundreds of possible/plausible very specific scenarios, explaining to you why an AI could not/would not t have direct access to the relay.

However, you people seems to be unable to accept general and abstract intepretations, keep asking "why? Where? What? By whom? When? Why? Exactly how? More details, more detalis! Where?".

 

I think this is a little bit puerile, because we are not talking about realilry, but I like debating and discussing and thinking up sci-fi scenarios, so I try to answer to all of your (sometimes stimulant, sometimes unnecessary ) questions, and having good time with it.

If you are not having a good time, I'm really sorry

[Reorte]

This isn't a bad idea but something like that should have been in the game. At the time of ME1, it made sense that Sovereign had a problem when he actively controlled Saren rather than relying on Indoctrination. ME2 undermined that but it could have been that using the Collector General as a proxy protected Harbinger and the time between possessions is the General recovering. I'd probably think up a different reason "why," but this could be made to work.

It would make more sense than killing the Saren hopper leaving Sovereign so vulnerable, particularly when there was no clear need to expose himself like that. It always screamed of gameplay over story to me. That it looked odd at the time makes it a reasonable target for a retcon I think. It would have been better still if it was just the result of attrition on Sovereign though. It would give him a motivation for not just mopping up the fleet before dealing with Shepard (not enough time for that) and would make the Reapers look potentially defeatable, even if it's beyond our current ability.