3523 réponses à ce sujet

[dorktainian]

I agree, but at least Extended Cut is free unlike other plot DLC.

but it removes magic teleporters

[Obadiah]

...
However, I would like to know how TIM suddenly being able to Control two people's bodies is not weird. With your question of consistency in mind, where was that ability set up beforehand? How is he doing that?

Well I can't speak against the "weird" part (some of the strangeness was probably on purpose by the devs to create a unique experience), but as far as consistency goes TIM's ability to control people seemed like an extension of the indoctrination properties already demonstrated and described throughout he trilogy, and gained from the procedure he underwent on Horizon. His Reaper-like nature was also described by his changed appearance.

[BloodyMares]

Well I can't speak against the "weird" part (some of the strangeness was probably on purpose by the devs to create a unique experience), but as far as consistency goes TIM's ability to control people seemed like an extension of the indoctrination properties already demonstrated and described throughout he trilogy, and gained from the procedure he underwent on Horizon. His Reaper-like nature was also described by his changed appearance.

But Reapers can't control people mechanically, they only affect their brain. While TIM's powers looked closer to biotics than to indoctrination.

[Obadiah]

But Reapers can't control people mechanically, they only affect their brain. While TIM's powers looked closer to biotics than to indoctrination.

Well, isn't there a the researcher's recording on Horizon/Sanctuary where she says she can't move when the test signal is switched on?

There's also the Harbinger Collector boss from ME2, but that's more possession. Still, it does show "direct control".

[BloodyMares]

There's also the Harbinger Collector boss from ME2, but that's more possession. Still, it does show "direct control".

True, Reapers are capable of controlling troops...that are implanted by their tech. You could argue about Shepard, but Anderson wasn't implanted by any kind of tech that would allow others to contol him so it's kind of out of nowhere.

[Obadiah]

Were the scientists on Sanctuary implanting themselves with Reaper tech? I wouln't have assumed that, but entirely possible.

[gothpunkboy89]

True, Reapers are capable of controlling troops...that are implanted by their tech. You could argue about Shepard, but Anderson wasn't implanted by any kind of tech that would allow others to contol him so it's kind of out of nowhere.

 

The Reaper version of indoctrination effects the mind causing people to do things that are in the favor of the Reapers without realizing it save maybe on a subconscious level. They are convinced it is in the best interest of themselves to do it even though it isn't.

 

Much like a sword it is a finely crafted tool of death. The edges honed to a razor sharpness.

 

TIM's on the other hand is far more blunt use of it effecting the mind for direct control while they are aware of what is happening and capable of fighting back. More like using a club.

 

Not even counting in the fact that the Leviathans show similar capability and the Reapers improved on it to get the Indoctrination we get in game. The Reaper version is quick and subtle. You don't realize you have been stabbed in the back till you look down to see the blood soaked blade protruding out of your chest. TIM's version is closer to someone running 50 yards up to your screaming at the top of their lung wielding a club.

[AlanC9]

You can see that as a problem but it's still a far smaller problem if there is not a Reaper brain on the Citadel.

Why?

But let's stipulate that it is. It fits a pet theory of mine anyway. Without getting into specifics, I think most of us are in general agreement that the games made somewhat less sense as we went on. What this means depends on how nonsense-tolerant each player is. From what I've seen, the players who will put up with anything are just fine. But the players who thought that ME was always nonsense are also fine. It's the people in the middle, who could ignore or didn't notice ME1's glaring flaws but couldn't or wouldn't do that for the later games, who have problems. (You can probably sort forum regulars into these groups pretty easily.)

The open question is whether nonsense-tolerance is a stable value. I have a suspicion that a lot of people only started to question ME3's logic after they found it emotionally unsatisfying, but I can't come up with any valid system for investigating this aspect. You've certainly seen posters from the always-nonsense group accusing posters from the middle group of blatant hypocrisy; it's a common move on this board.

[AlanC9]

True, Reapers are capable of controlling troops...that are implanted by their tech. You could argue about Shepard, but Anderson wasn't implanted by any kind of tech that would allow others to contol him so it's kind of out of nowhere.

This was caused by an indoctrination sequence being cut. If you look at the leaked outline (not the full-text leak), you can see that the effect was supposed to have been familiar to the player, presumably from Horizon. Devs have said that the sequence failed in playtesting; IIRC it felt like the game had gone buggy rather than like insidious mind control.

[themikefest]

However, I would like to know how TIM suddenly being able to Control two people's bodies is not weird. With your question of consistency in mind, where was that ability set up beforehand? How is he doing that?

Controlling Shepard I wouldn't find hard to believe. The first time I saw that, I thought it had something to do with all the upgrades implanted in Shepard's body. With Anderson, it could be similiar to the Dominate power that TIM used. He was also being controlled by the intelligence. It still doesn't explain the fist-pump thing. Unless Bioware wanted to do that for a "it looks cool" effect.

[BloodyMares]

Much like a sword it is a finely crafted tool of death. The edges honed to a razor sharpness.

 

TIM's on the other hand is far more blunt use of it effecting the mind for direct control while they are aware of what is happening and capable of fighting back. More like using a club.

 

Did you see at least one Reaper that would cause such an effect on organics as TIM's on the mind of others (in the base game)? I didn't. I know about different kinds of indoctrination: there is a slow, low-profile indoctrination that people don't notice and there's a strong indoctrination that turns people into useless husks that can't perform any tasks. The game didn't show the type of indoctrination where people would keep their mind intact but their body would be controlled. (Anderson told that he just couldn't move, his mind was his own) The only kind of control that is similar to that is of Thorian but it controls people through pain, not with telekinesis. So, yeah. TIM's powers are something new entirely.

[gothpunkboy89]

Did you see at least one Reaper that would cause such an effect on organics as TIM's on the mind of others (in the base game)? I didn't. I know about different kinds of indoctrination: there is a slow, low-profile indoctrination that people don't notice and there's a strong indoctrination that turns people into useless husks that can't perform any tasks. The game didn't show the type of indoctrination where people would keep their mind intact but their body would be controlled. (Anderson told that he just couldn't move, his mind was his own) The only kind of control that is similar to that is of Thorian but it controls people through pain, not with telekinesis. So, yeah. TIM's powers are something new entirely.

 

 

How the body moves is build entirely based on the mind. The Reapers and their refined indoctrination subtle alters how the person things and reacts to certain circumstances. And in the case of being around undirected indoctrination effect like in the Dead Reaper. It overloads and breaks the mind of people who are subjected to it.

 

TIM figuring out the very basic form of it would still allow him to manipulate the body to react a certain why by controlling the brain. How ever because it is such a basic blunt force version of what the Reapers are capable of he can not induce that subtle alteration in how they think. The targets are aware what is going on but are incapable of over riding the effect TIM has on their basic motor controls.

 

It isn't really new.  Closer to someone in this day and age creating the Wright Brother's first plane vs the F-22 Raptor jet fighter the US military has. Same thing just a lot more basic version of it.

[Obadiah]

*Cough*
Guess i'll hawk my personal theory that indoctrination is really just an organic mind being pulled into the Reaper hive mind (which is what we see on the derelict Reaper in ME2), and then being overwhelmed. Shepard is special because his mind isn't being overwhelmed even though he's being pulled in too, hence the Collector's interest and the kid running away in the ME3 dreams.

The physical control I think is just something new that TIM developed on Sanctuary, or perhaps a logical extension of their existing ability that the Reapers just didn't use.

[BloodyMares]

How the body moves is build entirely based on the mind. The Reapers and their refined indoctrination subtle alters how the person things and reacts to certain circumstances. And in the case of being around undirected indoctrination effect like in the Dead Reaper. It overloads and breaks the mind of people who are subjected to it.

 

TIM figuring out the very basic form of it would still allow him to manipulate the body to react a certain why by controlling the brain. How ever because it is such a basic blunt force version of what the Reapers are capable of he can not induce that subtle alteration in how they think. The targets are aware what is going on but are incapable of over riding the effect TIM has on their basic motor controls.

 

It isn't really new.  Closer to someone in this day and age creating the Wright Brother's first plane vs the F-22 Raptor jet fighter the US military has. Same thing just a lot more basic version of it.

But did you see at least one Reaper affect anyone the same way?

[gothpunkboy89]

But did you see at least one Reaper affect anyone the same way?

 

Yes with Saren to allow himself to be implanted with Reaper tech to boost his confidence in Sovereign.

[rossler]

But Reapers can't control people mechanically, they only affect their brain. While TIM's powers looked closer to biotics than to indoctrination.

 

Sure they can.

 

All those Collectors you fought in ME2 and ME3 multiplayer, Citadel arena, as well as TIM were directly controlled by Harbinger. When you shot Anderson, Harbinger was controlling TIM as well as you. Both mind and body. 

[themikefest]

Harbinger controlling TIM? Hmmm. I remember the intelligence saying we controlled him. Meaning the intelligence was controlling TIM

[rossler]

That is the literal explanation. 

[BloodyMares]

gothpunkboy89, on 04 Aug 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:
Yes with Saren to allow himself to be implanted with Reaper tech to boost his confidence in Sovereign.

 

Do you mean before he was implanted? If that's the case how do you figure that he was forced to do that? Maybe it was his decision. He was indoctrinated after all.

 

 

All those Collectors you fought in ME2 and ME3 multiplayer, Citadel arena, as well as TIM were directly controlled by Harbinger. When you shot Anderson, Harbinger was controlling TIM as well as you. Both mind and body. 

Ahem. Did you pay attention? All of them were implanted by Reaper tech. And I don't remember that TIM was controlled. His mind was indoctrinated, yes, but he did things willingly. Without Reaper Tech there is no direct control, only influence. Anderson wasn't implanted at all. So how was TIM able to control his movements?

[rossler]

Ahem. Did you pay attention? All of them were implanted by Reaper tech. Without it there is no control, only influence. Anderson wasn't implanted. So how was TIM able to control his movements?

 

Maybe it wasn't TIM, but rather Harbinger taking TIM's form. They can do that you know. 

 

As for Anderson, I never saw him enter the beam behind me, so I don't think that's really him. 

 

They have the ability to read Shepard's mind and make anyone look like anything they want. For all you know Anderson really is some random guy taking Anderson's form implanted with Reaper tech and not really Anderson himself.

 

Don't believe everything you see and hear. 

[BloodyMares]

Maybe it wasn't TIM, but rather Harbinger taking TIM's form. They can do that you know. 

 

As for Anderson, I never saw him enter the beam behind me, so I don't think that's really him. Same goes for TIM. They have the ability to read Shepard's mind and make anyone look like anything they want. For all you know Anderson really is some random guy taking Anderson's form implanted with Reaper tech and not really Anderson himself.

 

Don't believe everything you see and hear. 

Ah, I see. You could've said that you believe in IT beforehand.

[rossler]

Ah, I see. You could've said that you believe in IT beforehand.

 

If you've followed this thread, I've said it many times. 

[dorktainian]

This was caused by an indoctrination sequence being cut. If you look at the leaked outline (not the full-text leak), you can see that the effect was supposed to have been familiar to the player, presumably from Horizon. Devs have said that the sequence failed in playtesting; IIRC it felt like the game had gone buggy rather than like insidious mind control.

 

I actually think we got that after sheps supposed beam me up scotty moment.

 

look at everything leading up to that, the subliminal messages.  The infrasonics.  The Dreams.  Shepards obviously deterioring mental state.

[BloodyMares]

The reason I don't like IT is because if it's true then it means the game doesn't have an ending. It has an ending of the dream but the Reapers are still a threat.

[dorktainian]

The reason I don't like IT is because if it's true then it means the game doesn't have an ending. It has an ending of the dream but the Reapers are still a threat.

not necesserily.  IT is just a holding position of reason.  

 

the shepard breath scene shows there's no end game, but everyone seems happy with that.  Just think outside the box.  You are now in the same position as the Ark survivors in MEA because they dont know how it ends either.