Yea during renagade play though. Destroyed all alternative objectives then for renagade reasons triggered the alarm. As long as you chhose to save the salarian group over help the person arming the bomb he survives.
If you don't destroy the stuff he dies regardless if you trigger the alarm it seems.
Can you link to a video of that happening
Thank you, I made a mistake I know how to do this I thought you meant the officer we help to find the dead soldiers killed.
And yet there is no information to give the details needed to come to a conclusion. We don't know their funeral practices. We don't know the full extent of there home life actions. They wear the suits when dealing with other Quarians but we simply don't have any information to fully form a concept of what does and doesn't happen. If you romance Tali she is pretty damn big on showing Shepard her real face and not just the mask. So you are calling it retcon based on no information after new information that was added that doesn't alter the old information.
And the fact that it is very hard for a singular organism to grasp the concept of multiple individuals in a single body. Because we are use to a single individual in a single body.
So again what exactly is your examples of retcon that causes you to use it in the complaining context you always use it in. Because with both these examples they fit exactly as I said and are nothing to complain about. Yet you are using retcon as a complaint frequently.
Can you link to a video of that happening
Nope but wiki seems to agree with my statement
http://masseffect.wi..._Kirrahe's_Team
I gave you the details and why what Tali days in ME2 is at odds with what she Says in ME1.
Part of the reason these retcons are "ok", or at least less bad, is because they aren't on major issues and serve the story well. That the Catalyst is a retcon isn't the major problem alone: it's that it undermined the first plus and the conflict with the plot of the first game is not addressed.
The Star Wars retcon was both in service of the story and it was addressed
But you are basing that detail conflicts on information we do not have for them to conflict. Based on Tali's aunt being willing to link suits with Tali's mother just so she could be in the same clean room when Tali was born kind of hints that out of suit interactions are extremely personal events between family members and partners. Something that isn't done very often due to their immune system but still done regardless.
But you are basing that detail conflicts on information we do not have for them to conflict. Based on Tali's aunt being willing to link suits with Tali's mother just so she could be in the same clean room when Tali was born kind of hints that out of suit interactions are extremely personal events between family members and partners. Something that isn't done very often due to their immune system but still done regardless.
I'm so glad you shared your opinion, OP
I find it amusing how the ending with different colors actually is one of the rare few times in ME3 that Shepard gets to make a big significant choice of any real impact.
Destroy, Control, Synthesis - all have very different outcomes that affects not only the whole Galaxy but also our character.
I have never had any problem with ME3's ending. I chose control and Shepard probably died. It was a good end to his story.
Right, but it's done rarely and is a big deal. In ME2, Tali says they are in their suits even among family. That's not how Tali discusses it in ME1.
Yes they do. But that doesn't contradict that she could have never seen her father's face at all. You are really jumping the shark there old chap.
Since I didn't get a chance to do it before I had to leave....
LotSB and Arrival are not canon, at least not within a playthough, because those are stories of Shepard doing things. Only their end results are and only for the next installment, ME3. If they have put down a canon, it doesn't affect a playthrough, but only how we look back on the series from the outside......
To start with this:
The basis of your reply is based on me claiming that specific actions are 100% canon. AKA it is official canon that the Rachni Queen is spared or that Shepard chooses to simply wipe out the Collectors and leave the base in tact or that the Genophage is always cured. Which is not what I said at all. I said that certain events happen while the specifics can be variables. AKA everyone goes to Tuchunka, makes a choice about the Genophage and kills a Reaper. This is highlighted with LotSB and Arrival DLC as well as BDtS from ME 1. As Balak will show up if you spared him or didn't even play the DLC. As well as will blame you for the destruction of the Alpha Relay.
Then trying to shift gears and claim it isn't canon till the next game talks about it is....well silly. It is still a canonical event in the game universe if Shepard participated in it or not. The specifics might alter but not the fact the event took place. Which is the point I'm making that you keep trying to avoid to validate your statements. With convinceing Leviathan they simply don't want to stick their neck out for someone who just got lucky. it would be extremely easy for that to have happened without Shepard. Just like it was easy for them to replace Shepard with a Merc army or an entire section of the Alliance Marine forces.
Yeah, FOX really blew it on that one. Star Wars was beautifully both tied up to be a single movie and allowed room for more. The Matrix could have just ended with one movie, but they made two more because the first one was so popular. Pirates of the Caribbean is another example.
It's fine to make side media canon, but the movies, the primary media, should not rely on information in it and anything in the movies trumps anything in any side media.
Well that is kind of the point. New Hope and to a great degree Empire both set up Luke and Leia as potential romantic interest. Particularly after Hans was frozen because Lucas wasn't sure if Ford would do a 3rd movie so needed a way to suspend the character in time if he didn't sign up for the 3rd movie. More then willing to be had Ford not signed on and Lucas would have dropped his character and it would have been Luke and Liea sitting in a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
Actually, building a perception is part of writing. But you're right, you never know when someone will get some wacky idea from what you present. And sometimes there are valid interpretations that are different from what the author intended. I won't say it was the case for Bradbury and Fahrenheit 451, but that idea is totally possible. We discussed it earlier where you misunderstood something I said, not because of a problem with your reading, as often as that may be the case, but because I phrased what I meant to say very poorly. In that instance, I, the author, said something other than what I meant to say.
Yes, the Geth were a threat to the Quarians. That threat stopped once the Quarians left. Yes, the Geth killed organics who entered their space. but that is hardly a threat to all life in the galaxy. If you go into the woods near a bear, it might attack and kill you. That doesn't mean all bears are a threat to all people.
Yeah, Quarian cruisers or frigates or whatever took a long time to take down a much larger dreadnought. That would be the case for any dreadnought. The Geth just built a bigger ship. It relied on all the same technology that everyone else has. The biggest advancement in military tech is the Thanix cannon, developed by the Turians.
So the Geth are just like everyone else: self interested and only cooperating to get something out of it. What's your point?
No, I never made that argument, Mr. Strawman. The Catalyst made the absolutist statement, not me.
If the author says one thing and someone else said something different it doesn't mean it is a valid interpretations of it. That is opening Pandora's Box when you say that. Because then you start having to sort what is a valid interpretation and what isn't. And what gives you the right to claim it isn't a valid interpretation of the work. Because by that set up the LotR Trilogy is all about how it is a good thing to segregate people based on race. It is completely against what Tolkien was doing but they use some pretty sound logic. So by your self up it is a valid interpretation.
But all bears are threats to humans. Hence why they are not know as forest cuddles. They will kill you for a number of reasons and why even trained bears used for movies and such are treated like a live land mine because at any minute they are capable of mauling people to death. There is a reason bears are not kept as pets.
But it isn't just larger ships the Geth were shown to use a UV laser defense system. One that on organic ships was far to bleeding edge and unreliable for the majority of the races to switch from the IR version of it. It isn't just that it is a bigger ship during the video leading up to Assault the Geth Dreadnought it shows the full potential of Geth in space combat. Specifically it shows full potential of a true AI race in space combat. Even if we assume that they are only slightly more advanced in technology the Geth still absolutely wipe the floor with the Quarians in every encounter that did not include Shepard in it.
And given their set up of killing organics that get into their territory it would only be a matter of time before they killed to many people and someone would react with violence. Which the Geth would react with more violence and they would go even farther then the Quarians. Because again they spared them because they were not sure of the outcome of that action. The second time they would be. The Thanix cannon was reverse engineered from Sovereign.
When your point is peace is possible and they don't want to fight but that entire statement is based on an outside force quite literally forcing them to work with others to save their own neck it is a problem.
This is the problem that shows up time and time again when you and others try to defend the Geth aren't a threat set up. You say the Catalyst is wrong but at every turn you are using the Catalyst's interference as examples of how and why they aren't a threat. This is a contradiction in your logic because the only way you can be right is by using the very actions of the person you are stating is wrong.
That Catalyst speaks from the PoV of it and the Reapers never existing when it talks about synthetics wiping out organics. It's soul purpose for millions of years has been to prevent that from happening and has created safe guards to prevent that. They could have created all the Relays to work like the Omega one were it only works for Reapers. But instead anyone can activate it and use it. This allows the organics to over whelm synthetics if necessary. That is actually one of the major points you use to why the Geth are not a threat. While they never elaborate on the reason for the technological scraps to be left behind it seems to set up organics being well equipped and able to take on synthetic threats if they show up by speeding up the development of one area of science (weapons) while the other area takes longer to catch up to that point (AI research).
But take away all those things and suddenly the whole equation shifts dramatically. And that is the equation you need to look at to claim the Catalyst is lying or not. Without Relays interstellar travel takes weeks or months to reach next solar systems. Without the Mass Effect Technology being handed to the races the technology needed to extra solar expansion travel would trap races to their own solar system. Any attempt to move beyond it would be a death trap as they would lack supplies to make it to the next system. And technology isn't a straight line so it is vastly more likely for advanced VI's like the Geth to be created before interstellar travel is mastered. Quarians try to shut down Geth and then they rebel starting a War would result in the extinction of the Quarians even if the Geth let them go.
They would then be able to advance and grow on their own. Advancing out beyond their own system and coming in contact with other organic race of various degrees of technological development. Their same kill organic set up would spark a war with them. But rather then all races able to easily fight against the Geth it would be one on one fight. At that point the Geth would in all likely hood be the technologically advanced race in the fight and would win. As they advance more they come across another and another. And this is assuming the Geth are the only ones created.
Yes this might takes another 50,000 years for this to happen but it would still happen. And that is the part about this that frustrates me so much. This was so obvious to me during my first play though what the Catalyst was getting at. But it just seems like not everyone gets it. It is only proven wrong after you see the fruits of it's labor.
The basis of your reply is based on me claiming that specific actions are 100% canon. AKA it is official canon that the Rachni Queen is spared or that Shepard chooses to simply wipe out the Collectors and leave the base in tact or that the Genophage is always cured. Which is not what I said at all. I said that certain events happen while the specifics can be variables. AKA everyone goes to Tuchunka, makes a choice about the Genophage and kills a Reaper. This is highlighted with LotSB and Arrival DLC as well as BDtS from ME 1. As Balak will show up if you spared him or didn't even play the DLC. As well as will blame you for the destruction of the Alpha Relay.
Then trying to shift gears and claim it isn't canon till the next game talks about it is....well silly. It is still a canonical event in the game universe if Shepard participated in it or not. The specifics might alter but not the fact the event took place. Which is the point I'm making that you keep trying to avoid to validate your statements. With convinceing Leviathan they simply don't want to stick their neck out for someone who just got lucky. it would be extremely easy for that to have happened without Shepard. Just like it was easy for them to replace Shepard with a Merc army or an entire section of the Alliance Marine forces.
No, I got your point. I was just clarifying that Arrival and LotSB are stories of Shepard's actions and are not canon if you didn't play them so we're all on the same page. Similarly, Balak will show up and introduce himself if you didn't play BdtS because Shepard never met him. I was also stressing that they only become canon after the game in which they appear.
Leviathan, however, is Shepard specific. Somebody else might have done everything all the way up to finding and meeting Leviathan but, based on what we are shown in the DLC, likely would not have convinced Leviathan and been released. Finally Shepard himself actually matters, rather than Arrival where he is just Commander Shootman.
Well that is kind of the point. New Hope and to a great degree Empire both set up Luke and Leia as potential romantic interest. Particularly after Hans was frozen because Lucas wasn't sure if Ford would do a 3rd movie so needed a way to suspend the character in time if he didn't sign up for the 3rd movie. More then willing to be had Ford not signed on and Lucas would have dropped his character and it would have been Luke and Liea sitting in a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
A New Hope, yes, but certainly not The Empire Strikes Back. That movie immediately put the tension between Han and Leia. If you didn't know Leia kissing Luke was 100% to take a swipe at Han and his comments then there's no hope for you. Luke and Leia being together may have been a contingency plan, but it's not strongly represented anywhere except Leia kissing Luke "for luck."
If the author says one thing and someone else said something different it doesn't mean it is a valid interpretations of it. That is opening Pandora's Box when you say that. Because then you start having to sort what is a valid interpretation and what isn't. And what gives you the right to claim it isn't a valid interpretation of the work. Because by that set up the LotR Trilogy is all about how it is a good thing to segregate people based on race. It is completely against what Tolkien was doing but they use some pretty sound logic. So by your self up it is a valid interpretation.
No, not all interpretations are valid, but some can be. Read the beginning of the "this is not a pipe" article in my signature. Determining if an interpretation is valid or invalid is harder, and there's discussion to be had as to what extent it can even be done. It requires a review of why the person interpreted things the way they did and if that matches up with everything else or if it is invalidated by some other part of the work. Such as how there is nothing to suggest segregation is a good thing in LotR. The story requires the crossing of the racial barriers in forming the Fellowship and other alliances.
But all bears are threats to humans. Hence why they are not know as forest cuddles. They will kill you for a number of reasons and why even trained bears used for movies and such are treated like a live land mine because at any minute they are capable of mauling people to death. There is a reason bears are not kept as pets.
All bears are not a threat to all humans. There is zero chance of me being attacked by bears where I am now. They don't know where I am and don't care. There is no way that they will coAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!
Sorry, fell off my chair. Anyway, yes, bears are dangerous and caution must be exercised when dealing with them, but they are not a threat to all life. Likewise, however dangerous and unfriendly the Geth may be, they were never a threat to all life in the galaxy.
But it isn't just larger ships the Geth were shown to use a UV laser defense system. One that on organic ships was far to bleeding edge and unreliable for the majority of the races to switch from the IR version of it. It isn't just that it is a bigger ship during the video leading up to Assault the Geth Dreadnought it shows the full potential of Geth in space combat. Specifically it shows full potential of a true AI race in space combat. Even if we assume that they are only slightly more advanced in technology the Geth still absolutely wipe the floor with the Quarians in every encounter that did not include Shepard in it.
And given their set up of killing organics that get into their territory it would only be a matter of time before they killed to many people and someone would react with violence. Which the Geth would react with more violence and they would go even farther then the Quarians. Because again they spared them because they were not sure of the outcome of that action. The second time they would be. The Thanix cannon was reverse engineered from Sovereign.
When your point is peace is possible and they don't want to fight but that entire statement is based on an outside force quite literally forcing them to work with others to save their own neck it is a problem.
The GARDIAN system the Geth use is the same technology everyone else uses. They just use a higher frequency because it's more powerful. Other species have access to the same technology but use lower frequencies because they are easier to maintain. It's a tradeoff that the Geth have chosen one end of rather than the other. The Salarians do the same, using "near UV" frequencies. The Geth just went one step further.
Your claim that the Geth wipe the floor with the Quarians is absolutely false because that doesn't happen until they get Reaper upgrades. Before that, the Quarians were winning, having pushed the Geth back to Rannoch. Once those upgrades are removed, the Quarians go back to winning.
Cooperation is started by the threat of the Reapers, but that is stronger on the side of Organics being able to accept the Geth. However, cooperation is a step beyond simple peace. Talking with Legion in ME2 reveals that the Geth do want to reconcile with the Quarians. I do think that they went too far to the side of "poor innocent Geth were wronged" rather than keep it balanced.
That Catalyst speaks from the PoV of it and the Reapers never existing when it talks about synthetics wiping out organics. It's soul purpose for millions of years has been to prevent that from happening and has created safe guards to prevent that. They could have created all the Relays to work like the Omega one were it only works for Reapers. But instead anyone can activate it and use it. This allows the organics to over whelm synthetics if necessary. That is actually one of the major points you use to why the Geth are not a threat. While they never elaborate on the reason for the technological scraps to be left behind it seems to set up organics being well equipped and able to take on synthetic threats if they show up by speeding up the development of one area of science (weapons) while the other area takes longer to catch up to that point (AI research).
But take away all those things and suddenly the whole equation shifts dramatically. And that is the equation you need to look at to claim the Catalyst is lying or not. Without Relays interstellar travel takes weeks or months to reach next solar systems. Without the Mass Effect Technology being handed to the races the technology needed to extra solar expansion travel would trap races to their own solar system. Any attempt to move beyond it would be a death trap as they would lack supplies to make it to the next system. And technology isn't a straight line so it is vastly more likely for advanced VI's like the Geth to be created before interstellar travel is mastered. Quarians try to shut down Geth and then they rebel starting a War would result in the extinction of the Quarians even if the Geth let them go.
They would then be able to advance and grow on their own. Advancing out beyond their own system and coming in contact with other organic race of various degrees of technological development. Their same kill organic set up would spark a war with them. But rather then all races able to easily fight against the Geth it would be one on one fight. At that point the Geth would in all likely hood be the technologically advanced race in the fight and would win. As they advance more they come across another and another. And this is assuming the Geth are the only ones created.
Yes this might takes another 50,000 years for this to happen but it would still happen. And that is the part about this that frustrates me so much. This was so obvious to me during my first play though what the Catalyst was getting at. But it just seems like not everyone gets it. It is only proven wrong after you see the fruits of it's labor.
It's not possible to look at it that way because that situation doesn't exist. But we know that the Reapers actually accelerate the advancement of technology which would include the development of synthetics. Where does the technology left behind help Organics fight Synthetics? Again, the Geth use the same technology as everyone else. Sovereign says they guide organic development down a particular path. We have to assume at that time that this is for the Reapers' benefit. Sovereign describes it as bringing order to the chaos of organic evolution, but the Catalyst says conflict is the chaos.
It was obvious to you because you make assumptions based on what you think about machines that are not presented in the narrative.
No, not all interpretations are valid, but some can be. Read the beginning of the "this is not a pipe" article in my signature. Determining if an interpretation is valid or invalid is harder, and there's discussion to be had as to what extent it can even be done. It requires a review of why the person interpreted things the way they did and if that matches up with everything else or if it is invalidated by some other part of the work.
Then you'll agree that the people in that quotation : "For these fans, the intended ‘bittersweet’ ending completely missed the mark and landed squarely in ‘bitter’" these people has done an invalid interpretation :the final shot of the original ending is optimistic, such as the music. The decided to ignore one part of the ending that's why they only felt the "bitter" aspect and didn't see it as a "bittersweet" ending. Here if we only take the mass effect aspect, it's a bittersweet ending. The problem doesn't come from the game itself, it comes from the player. You only have to watch the scene after the crash to understand that that part is optimistic. And it actually worked. Only people who didn't want that kind of ending refused that aspect.
And about this : "from the introduction/rising-action/climax/falling-action/denoument dramatic structure – which the original ending of theMass Effect trilogy eschews" if you take a look at the structure we've got all the part, so here against this guy is telling lies or he is doing a bad interpretation of what is supposed to structure. All the elements are here so there is no problem in the structure itself.
And this one : "using the antagonist as the mouthpiece to present all the final ending options is a narrative no-no" I know you will disagree but the catalyst isn't an antagonist. Sovereign, Harbinger and the other reapers are but the catalyst isn't. And when we face him, the crucible is finished. Or you have to explain when the catalyst has shown himself as an antagonist, someone who tries to stop Shepard. Once again that's bad/invalid interpretation.
And this one : "every installment of Mass Effect is conventionally structured, adheres to genre standards, and was very well-written within the confines of standard narrative conventions" He has to explain how Mass Effect 2 that has a lot of writing problems could be well-written within the confines of standard narrative conventions. If what he is talking about are the basic "intro/.. ./denouement" then everything written is well written.
Honestly, I won't develop on what he says about art but it's pure demagogy and ignorance. Art isn't the use of fake things (stones are fakes things? take a look at what he considers to be fake things : "Through words, images, paint, clay, stone, and every other aspect of creative mediums") to contemplate real things. Here just like the quotation of Tolkien you used, the piece is totally ignored and any aesthetic that works on its own artificiality is no longer art. That's one aesthetic, he isn't talking about art. So what will we do with Jacques the fatalist, some books from the nouveau roman. And with that idea of art, we can't understand why Lucio Fulci is so appreciated. So seriously, once again, your quotation are about aesthetic, not about art and this article is worst because Tolkien never tried to be a critic but this one tries to be, except that he doesn't enough knowledge to see the problem (take a look at the title he used "ceci n'est pas une pipe" if you understand that piece of art, you see that what he talk about is the exact opposite of Magritte's purpose. You know that the real title is "la trahison des images"/ the treachery of images? So where is the real thing? Is it really about the real thing? You'll notice that the "real thing" is never really explained, we don't really know what it is).
Leviathan, however, is Shepard specific. Somebody else might have done everything all the way up to finding and meeting Leviathan but, based on what we are shown in the DLC, likely would not have convinced Leviathan and been released. Finally Shepard himself actually matters, rather than Arrival where he is just Commander Shootman.
A New Hope, yes, but certainly not The Empire Strikes Back. That movie immediately put the tension between Han and Leia. If you didn't know Leia kissing Luke was 100% to take a swipe at Han and his comments then there's no hope for you. Luke and Leia being together may have been a contingency plan, but it's not strongly represented anywhere except Leia kissing Luke "for luck."
I think a lot of people wanted or even expected a sweet ending after a long journey.
I personally expected something bitter or bittersweet. I wasn't expecting a sweet cookie at the end. The game gave you plenty of hints that you weren't going to get one. Just look at the original ending.
There might have been plenty of sweet moments throughout the game, but the Reaper story and conflict was not painted as such.
Right, but it's done rarely and is a big deal. In ME2, Tali says they are in their suits even among family. That's not how Tali discusses it in ME1.
And in ME3 she can be with Shepard twice and be totally inoculated 
Come to think of it, what would happen in-universe if Shepard never showed up for Leviathan?
I think that meme got loose because it was in some of the early EU stuff (it's easy to forget how early that started). I'm not sure how closely Lucas was supervising the novels, though. But genetic sexual attraction is apparently a thing, so ....
Splinter in the Mind's Eye (which was written between Episode IV and V) has some UST between Luke and Leia.
And yeah early on there was discussion of killing Han off about halfway through Episode VI. But Luke and Leia still didn't end up together
I think a lot of people wanted or even expected a sweet ending after a long journey.
I personally expected something bitter or bittersweet. I wasn't expecting a sweet cookie at the end. The game gave you plenty of hints that you weren't going to get one. Just look at the original ending.
There might have been plenty of sweet moments throughout the game, but the Reaper story and conflict was not painted as such.
The thing is, what is sweet and what is bittersweet. The big failure here is there's a any number of definitions, and different tolerances for bitterness. Bioware tried to do a one-size fits all ending after spending years telling us we had a hand in its creation.
No, I got your point. I was just clarifying that Arrival and LotSB are stories of Shepard's actions and are not canon if you didn't play them so we're all on the same page. Similarly, Balak will show up and introduce himself if you didn't play BdtS because Shepard never met him. I was also stressing that they only become canon after the game in which they appear.
Leviathan, however, is Shepard specific. Somebody else might have done everything all the way up to finding and meeting Leviathan but, based on what we are shown in the DLC, likely would not have convinced Leviathan and been released. Finally Shepard himself actually matters, rather than Arrival where he is just Commander Shootman.
Says they are Shepard's actions and are not canon if you didn't play them. Cut to ME 3 when those actions still took place with a different group and is considered canon. Not only are you contradicting yourself but you are directly contradicting the game. When you directly contradict what the game says then it really shows you have no ground to stand on.
A New Hope, yes, but certainly not The Empire Strikes Back. That movie immediately put the tension between Han and Leia. If you didn't know Leia kissing Luke was 100% to take a swipe at Han and his comments then there's no hope for you. Luke and Leia being together may have been a contingency plan, but it's not strongly represented anywhere except Leia kissing Luke "for luck."
So Love Triangle is a new concept to you isn't it?
No, not all interpretations are valid, but some can be. Read the beginning of the "this is not a pipe" article in my signature. Determining if an interpretation is valid or invalid is harder, and there's discussion to be had as to what extent it can even be done. It requires a review of why the person interpreted things the way they did and if that matches up with everything else or if it is invalidated by some other part of the work. Such as how there is nothing to suggest segregation is a good thing in LotR. The story requires the crossing of the racial barriers in forming the Fellowship and other alliances.
OH but many are using that logic because then you have to appoint yourself as know it all of the story to claim a valid or invalid interpenetration. LotR actually does a lot while the Fellowship forms friendships the races at large. IE Dwarfs, Elfs, Man, Hobbit are completely separated from each other with little to no interaction outside trade. During the attack by Saruman and Sauron all races only help themselves. In the book there is no elf group that comes to Rohan's need during Helm's Deep. There is no Dwarven or Elvish assistance during the battle for Gondor. And during the march to distract Sauron it was again simply man doing all the world while every other race remained isolated.
Now we know this interpenetration isn't valid because Tolkien himself came out against it. But using your set up it is a valid interpretation of it. Which is why saying interpretations other then what the author said it is about as valid is opening Pandora's Box.
All bears are not a threat to all humans. There is zero chance of me being attacked by bears where I am now. They don't know where I am and don't care. There is no way that they will coAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!
You are confusing threat to all humans and can they attack all humans at once. These are two very distinctly different set ups. Bears look at all humans as either food or a possible threat that needs to be eliminated. Put any number of bears in close proximity to any number of humans and 9 out of 10 times it will end with the human either killed or severely injured requiring immediate medical assistance to survive.
The GARDIAN system the Geth use is the same technology everyone else uses. They just use a higher frequency because it's more powerful. Other species have access to the same technology but use lower frequencies because they are easier to maintain. It's a tradeoff that the Geth have chosen one end of rather than the other. The Salarians do the same, using "near UV" frequencies. The Geth just went one step further.
Your claim that the Geth wipe the floor with the Quarians is absolutely false because that doesn't happen until they get Reaper upgrades. Before that, the Quarians were winning, having pushed the Geth back to Rannoch. Once those upgrades are removed, the Quarians go back to winning.
Cooperation is started by the threat of the Reapers, but that is stronger on the side of Organics being able to accept the Geth. However, cooperation is a step beyond simple peace. Talking with Legion in ME2 reveals that the Geth do want to reconcile with the Quarians. I do think that they went too far to the side of "poor innocent Geth were wronged" rather than keep it balanced.
The first part is exactly what I said only repeated back. Geth mastered a technology that organics had but had not yet developed enough to make it practical use. Much like currently with Railguns. They technology exists and can be used but hasn't developed enough for the practical application and deployment of it so it still remains unused.
Quarians were winning because of their secret weapon. Which while it isn't explained all that well in game seems a lot like they were DDoSing the Geth's radar system. Spamming junk data that they couldn't filter out effectively causing them to be "blinded" so to speak. Allowing the Quarians to pick them off at a distance. Once the upgrade hit their processing power got a boost and they were able to deal with the junk data and started wrecking the Quarian's set up badly. True if you kill Legion the Geth get slaughtered. Not only because they lost the upgrade and the moment of confusion afterwards but because they downgrade in processing power from true AI status to really advanced VI status they are also susceptible to the DDoS attack by the Quarians again.
But that doesn't change the fact that they had to literally blind the Geth to start to win. And if the Geth had already evolved past their crippling dependence on one another for intelligence more in like with EDI who is depending on no one else for her intelligence and processing capability the fight would have gone much different. As well talks with Legion also shows they don't have even the basic understanding of organics. Shepard and Legion simply trying to introduce each other comes across like a slap stick comedy effect. And this doesn't change they still firmly feel that only the Geth should be allowed to decide what happens to the Geth. A mentality that doesn't quite fit on the galactic scale of event and things that happen in them.
It's not possible to look at it that way because that situation doesn't exist. But we know that the Reapers actually accelerate the advancement of technology which would include the development of synthetics. Where does the technology left behind help Organics fight Synthetics? Again, the Geth use the same technology as everyone else. Sovereign says they guide organic development down a particular path. We have to assume at that time that this is for the Reapers' benefit. Sovereign describes it as bringing order to the chaos of organic evolution, but the Catalyst says conflict is the chaos.
It was obvious to you because you make assumptions based on what you think about machines that are not presented in the narrative.
Yes it is possible to look at that set up that way because you are out right stating the Catalyst is dead wrong. Meaning to prove that you have to eliminate everything that Catalyst had a hand in doing and look at how the galaxy would be without it. You can not claim the world doesn't need superman because it is a great place while looking at a world in which his actions have made it a better place. To make that claim you need to look at a world that superman never existed in to validate the claim.
Of course Geth use similar but more advanced technology then we use. They started with the same foundation as the rest of the galaxy and have started to build from there. If tomorrow the Asari contacted us and left us all their technology then left we would do the same thing.
You can say it is for the Reaper's benefit but what do they actually benefit from it? Because if it was for their benefit then the Reapers should have never left the scraps behind because it would be far easier to harvest a group that still uses chemical propellant weapons then ones using mass effect based technology. Reapers would have to be serious masochists to find any benefit from advancing the technology of the races they plan to harvest to the point they are capable of fighting back and killing Reapers. It does help the Reaper cause because weapons and counter measures would be developed with it long before Synthetics would. Turning the warring nature of organics into a useful thing to help prevent destruction before the harvest.
Both statements are true. Organic life is chaos and the larger we get the more chaos we can create. When they harvest advance organic life they are bringing order to the chaos we create. That chaos we create is were the conflict between organics and synthetics develop.
No it was obvious to me because it was obvious to me. The entire point of the Reapers have been to safe guard organics from being wiped out by synthetics. That is the only reason they have existed for billions of years. To then try and claim that their statements are not true while looking at the fruits of their labors is asinine. This basic critical thinking skills coming into play.
If the Reapers and their statement and assumptions are wrong then you should be able to remove everything they have set up and still get the same equation. But as soon as you remove the Reapers and their effects on the galaxy suddenly that equation shifts dramatically. There are a ton of factors that we can't bring into the equation like the many different races that existed before in game races. But even showing in game races the effects and actions would drastically ****.
Come to think of it, what would happen in-universe if Shepard never showed up for Leviathan?
That's what we were discussing. Someone else may have been dispatched to meet Dr. Bryson and follow his research. They may have made it as far as meeting Leviathan, but would not have convinced them or been released.
And in ME3 she can be with Shepard twice and be totally inoculated
I was talking about the social and personal implications. I'm not going to get into their biology lol.
Mass Effect is a game of choice. Players choose what conversations to have, missions to take, what actions to perform. Those choices contain extra experiences and information. By design, players can get to the end of ME3 with partial, incomplete, or just plain different information depending on their choices.
It is true that some info is hidden in investigate options. Can you think of anything that is plot critical though?
@Natureguy85 I wouldn't say so, but some players were pretty adamant that Wreave and Legion VI are the proper experiences to have when evaluating the Krogan and Geth, because they represent their true nature (or truer less manipulative "something").
I felt this way, and have killed off Wrex and not recruited Legion partially for this very reason. It allowed Shepard to go into the situation keeping these potential allies at arms-length; not being past war buddies with them that Wrex and Legion conveniently are. Wrex and Legion easily allow emotional appeal to influence major decisions as well as create potential red herrings.
Ex: If Wrex/Eve are in charge, people believe the genophage cure can work and krogan can peacefully self-regulate an aggressive thousand year lifespan species that likes to headbutt each other who also can produce 1000 eggs a year; living happily ever after.
Ex: If Legion/Tali are around, people believe giving the geth reaper upgrades to make an entire race all advanced AIs (which heavily violates council laws regarding AIs) will work out and the quarians will go right along with it and make peace; together living happily ever after.
Splinter in the Mind's Eye (which was written between Episode IV and V) has some UST between Luke and Leia.
Any consequences from that? Does anyone figure out what was going on later, or is the whole business just forgotten in the chaos of the end of the Reaper War?That's what we were discussing. Someone else may have been dispatched to meet Dr. Bryson and follow his research. They may have made it as far as meeting Leviathan, but would not have convinced them or been released.
Any consequences from that? Does anyone figure out what was going on later, or is the whole business just forgotten in the chaos of the end of the Reaper War?
That's why the argument exists. Should ME3 DLC be considered canon even if Shepard didn't do these missions? The LotSB and the Arrival are canon because the consequences are established and Shepard is not required. But ME3 DLC though is a different story because the consequences of inaction are not known.
Any consequences from that? Does anyone figure out what was going on later, or is the whole business just forgotten in the chaos of the end of the Reaper War?
Well more and more people might follow the same trail but that trail will always end under that ocean if not before.
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